Frequency Therapeutics — Hearing Loss Regeneration

[Tinker Bell]

Someone talked to Jeff Karp about it and in previous studies they found evidence for this happening. I'm confident in their success because of the success Novartis has had in functional hearing regeneration in living people. Novartis has successfully restored partial hearing in severely deaf people. Frequency Therapeutics' approach is waaayyyy better than Novartis so it is possible that this might help us out. Besides, I doubt that something that works in dead human cochleas and living mice cochleas would fail.

A lot of us have been closely watching different studies and research papers for months now. Within the 80+ parts of this thread, towards the end of it we've found more hope in Frequency Therapeutics than in any other place. If we are wrong, we are wrong. It seems like different people on this forum (not necessarily you) have snuffed our people's dreams because they hoped for a completely different treatment that ended up failing. It seems crazy and more detrimental to rob people of their hope, even if it is bizarre. The minute people on these forums lose something to look forward to, they lose hope on life altogether. Let's push forward with a neutral approach.

That's great. What previous human studies because my understanding was that Frequency Therapeutics has only had two: the one on six future cochlear implant patients and the current clinical trial? Was there a trial with cadaver cochleas?

If Novartis has a drug that restored partial hearing, where is it in the clinical trial process?

I'm all for hope. I would benefit from a drug that restores hearing, even if it did not treat my tinnitus. But I like to keep my expectation timeline realistic. I want this drug to succeed, but I recognize that it first needs to go through the proper thorough clinical testing process.

 

[JohnAdams]

Exactly, which is why I asked John for a link to support his claim that the drug regrew human cochlear hair cells and ribbon synapses. Proving that was not a goal of the first clinical test on humans, which is obviously why more testing is needed.

Okay I see the confusion here. I didn't mean to insinuate that the first trial proved it worked to regrow human hair cells. I was listing facts that have been previously discovered about this drug from other experiments. And it has been shown to regrow human hair cells, that's a fact.




They have regrown human hair cells.

The hair cells have ribbon synapses.

This video has probably been posted around this site multiple times. Especially in this thread. Maybe if you watched it you wouldn't be putting me on trial for being informed and doing research.

 

[d'Wooluf]

g. It seems crazy and more detrimental to rob people of their hope, even if it is bizarre. The minute people on these forums lose something to look forward to, they lose hope on life altogether. Let's push forward with a neutral approach

What happens then if it doesn't work? Do you fall in a heap? What happens if it does work but takes five years to get there? That's five years where you've mostly ignored existing and emerging treatment options that might have improved your life. Not totally killed your tinnitus- which seems to be the only outcome one or two people here seem to be interested in- but maybe made your life better.

I'm wondering whether all this hope focused on one company is actually healthy. I'm not a psychologist or a tinnitus counselor, so I'm genuinely asking these questions out loud.

 

[katri]

We will see. We will be like everyone else who hoped for Trobalt and etc.

Just because I'm for Frequency Therapeutics, doesn't mean I'm against neuromodulation.

You know what else isn't mentally healthy? Focusing on support threads that only focus on suicide and hopelessness. We have a success thread that puts pressure on people to recover. when they don't, they end up crushed in every way. Studies like this materialize the concept of hope. This is practically the hope thread.

 

[Chad Lawton]

I totally respect this, Contrast, and don't disagree with you. All I'm saying is that we don't know, and I'm personally 50/50 on whether restoring hearing loss will fix tinnitus.

And finally, will restoring hearing loss correct a maladapted brain once the tinnitus is chronic? We know that the tinnitus signal spreads all over the brain once it is chronic, which is likely why we pick it up in our conscious awareness rather than it being filtered out.

Many good points. It is my understanding that the ringing begins due to the de-afferentation of neurons and the ringing is literally a collision of the brainwaves. The high frequency waves colliding with the low frequency. It would make sense that you could get rid of the ringing by restoring signal to the neurons that are no longer receiving signal. It's a lengthy read but here is my source to my theory.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4460809/

 

[katri]

If Novartis has a drug that restored partial hearing, where is it in the clinical trial process?

Their drug does not replace the supporting cells that we need. Instead, it just converts them into hair cells. It's more meant for research than application because it is not meant for the average hearing loss sufferer.

 

[Manny]

I experiment on myself enough to know that when I have my hearing aides in my T can be a 1 or a 0 some days. If I pull them out my T can get to a 5 within minutes. When I put my hearing aides in and start hearing sound it goes back to a 0 or a 1. Our brains are pretty plastic and will adjust accordingly.

@RB2014 I know this is an old post but do you find that your actual tinnitus volume reduces with your hearing aids in, or are you just less aware of it because external auditory input increases?

 

[85dB T]

@RB2014 I know this is an old post but do you find that your actual tinnitus volume reduces with your hearing aids in, or are you just less aware of it because external auditory input increases?

@Manny I realized this about hearing aids that I have never been told. In the context of your question hearing aids act as a masking device. Instead of static white noise or sound machine, hearing aids amplify all ambient sound and flood your ears with volume.

Sometimes I think hearing aids are like listening to music with ear buds. You have to be careful not to crank the volume up too high.

 

[Manny]

@Manny I realized this about hearing aids that I have never been told. In the context of your question hearing aids act as a masking device. Instead of static white noise or sound machine, hearing aids amplify all ambient sound and flood your ears with volume.

Sometimes I think hearing aids are like listening to music with ear buds. You have to be careful not to crank the volume up too high.

Well yes, I would agree as HAs are glorified amplifiers, that's all they are.
The point of my question was to potentially derive anecdotal evidence that reducing perceptive hearing loss actually objectively reduces tinnitus.

 

[RB2014]

@RB2014 I know this is an old post but do you find that your actual tinnitus volume reduces with your hearing aids in, or are you just less aware of it because external auditory input increases?

I have posted this in other sections and it actually reduces the volume. I experiment on myself constantly. I can have tinnitus at a 10 and within 5 min of putting my hearing aids it goes to a 1. If I take my hearing aid out it stays at a 1 and then after a few min will get louder and louder back to a 10. Our brain knows whether we are getting the full frequency spectrum of our environment and adjusts tinnitus volume accordingly. As mentioned, there are many many causes of T and this won't fix all of them, but if your T is due to sensorineural hearing loss then there is an extremely good chance this is going to work. Will it fix everyone, no, but it will fix many of us.

I truly believe that if you can get all of your hearing back and everything else is ok, then it will completely cure tinnitus. Once it has been triggered though(axiety) even something as small as a 10db loss and it won't go away. Just my 2 cents.

My hearing aides won't let me get back to baseline anymore due to my severe loss at high frequencies so I am alway left with a 1, but when I was younger and I could it would completely go away.

 

[Manny]

I have posted this in other sections and it actually reduces the volume. I experiment on myself constantly. I can have tinnitus at a 10 and within 5 min of putting my hearing aids it goes to a 1. If I take my hearing aid out it stays at a 1 and then after a few min will get louder and louder back to a 10. Our brain knows whether we are getting the full frequency spectrum of our environment and adjusts tinnitus volume accordingly. As mentioned, there are many many causes of T and this won't fix all of them, but if your T is due to sensorineural hearing loss then there is an extremely good chance this is going to work. Will it fix everyone, no, but it will fix many of us.

I truly believe that if you can get all of your hearing back and everything else is ok, then it will completely cure tinnitus. Once it has been triggered though(axiety) even something as small as a 10db loss and it won't go away. Just my 2 cents.

My hearing aides won't let me get back to baseline anymore due to my severe loss at high frequencies so I am alway left with a 1, but when I was younger and I could it would completely go away.

Got it. Thank you!

 

[85dB T]

Well yes, I would agree as HAs are glorified amplifiers, that's all they are.
The point of my question was to potentially derive anecdotal evidence that reducing perceptive hearing loss actually objectively reduces tinnitus.

My audiologist (who sold me the hearing aids) says my tinnitus is not improving because I'm not wearing my hearing aids full time (next time I'll ask the source of her opinion). My experience personally..... hearing aids do absolutely nothing to help my tinnitus other than providing a masking effect, and maybe they stimulate the auditory system with more variety of sound.

Of course they do amplify and help you hear but this probably causes more damage over time at high volume (Catch 22).

 

[Manny]

My audiologist (who sold me the hearing aids) says my tinnitus is not improving because I'm not wearing my hearing aids full time (next time I'll ask the source of her opinion). My experience personally..... hearing aids do absolutely nothing to help my tinnitus other than providing a masking effect, and maybe they stimulate the auditory system with more variety of sound.

Of course they do amplify and help you hear but this probably causes more damage over time at high volume (Catch 22).

I would assume that for people the hearing aid sufficiently compensates for the hearing loss (regarding tinnitus) and for some it doesn't. Or some type of brain persistence thing. Who knows.
As far as that catch 22... I would tend to agree.
Sorry...that really sucks. Too bad we don't live 100 years from now.

 

[just1morething]

@85dB T, Sounds like a sales person. How would she know unless she has tinnitus? Sounds like a typical response from a non tinnitus sufferer. I found hearing aids to aggravate my tinnitus at times, especially when using the masker.

 

[Striveon]

My audiologist (who sold me the hearing aids) says my tinnitus is not improving because I'm not wearing my hearing aids full time (next time I'll ask the source of her opinion). My experience personally..... hearing aids do absolutely nothing to help my tinnitus other than providing a masking effect, and maybe they stimulate the auditory system with more variety of sound.

Of course they do amplify and help you hear but this probably causes more damage over time at high volume (Catch 22).

That's what my ENT said... they know nothing! He said not wearing hearing aids is only aggravating your tinnitus to get worse. Then he said, loud sounds do not cause tinnitus, That's a wrong concept people with tinnitus have. JUST WOW!!

 

[85dB T]

@85dB T, Sounds like a sales person. How would she know unless she has tinnitus? Sounds like a typical response from a non tinnitus sufferer. I found hearing aids to aggravate my tinnitus at times, especially when using the masker.

She is one of three audiologist I have seen. The audiologist that works with/for my Neurotologist/Otolaryngologist is the smartest imho. Her equipment tests up to 16 kHz. Regarding tinnitus, she makes no claims about hearing aids, TRT or anything other than "sorry there is no cure" (which is the truth).

The audiologist I mentioned previously, I went to see her because she had been part of a tinnitus research group at a major medical university that had published some journal articles and research studies. After several visits her experience means nothing to me regarding tinnitus relief (she does know a lot of "tinnitus trivia" though). Of course she has tinnitus too, doesn't everybody?

 

[d'Wooluf]

My audiologist (who sold me the hearing aids) says my tinnitus is not improving because I'm not wearing my hearing aids full time (next time I'll ask the source of her opinion).

She's not alone in her belief. Maybe give it a go and see?

"For many people, tinnitus may be related to sound deprivation, for example hearing loss. The aim of fitting hearing aids is to correct any such hearing loss with the possibility that this may help reduce the tinnitus. Hearing aids should be worn throughout your waking hours to gain maximum benefit."

(https://www.tinnitus.org.uk/hearing-aids-and-tinnitus)

 

[JohnAdams]

That's what my ENT said... they know nothing! He said not wearing hearing aids is only aggravating your tinnitus to get worse. Then he said, loud sounds do not cause tinnitus, That's a wrong concept people with tinnitus have. JUST WOW!!

That's just... I have no words...

 

[Paulmanlike]

Just want to stay on topic here but thought I'll offer some input regarding hearing loss and tinnitus.

I currently have impacted ear wax. Result is lots of head noise (that's new) on top of usual left ear tinnitus. No measureable hearing loss on audiogram up to 8 kHz.

Perhaps my impacted ear wax is causing a blockage of certain frequencies getting picked up hence the extra noises.

Anyway, getting them cleaned out this week so maybe it'll make an improvement.

It appears on websites that ear wax can cause tinnitus (although my case seems to be "head" tinnitus, where some others suggests it can just make pre existing tinnitus appear worse) -- I have no idea what to believe.

Agree with the person who said about not putting eggs all in one basket though - I would hope you are all looking at alternative therapies that are being investigated rather than just Frequency Therapeutics - ESPECIALLY if your main wish is to get shut of tinnitus and hearing loss is not much of concern for you.

 

[JohnAdams]

Someone talked to Jeff Karp about it and in previous studies they found evidence for this happening. I'm confident in their success because of the success Novartis has had in functional hearing regeneration in living people. Novartis has successfully restored partial hearing in severely deaf people. Frequency Therapeutics' approach is waaayyyy better than Novartis so it is possible that this might help us out. Besides, I doubt that something that works in dead human cochleas and living mice cochleas would fail.

A lot of us have been closely watching different studies and research papers for months now. Within the 80+ parts of this thread, towards the end of it we've found more hope in Frequency Therapeutics than

I'm just trying to figure out why there's a flock of chaps in here that are on a mission to try and get us to not focus on this drug and scramble any coherent conversation about it. People have mentioned the most absurd ideas like it may grow us extra heads, cause heart attacks, then they compare it to previous failed drugs, then resort to the old argument that hearing loss doesnt cause tinnitus. Some even claim that by focusing on this we arent looking at other things and that we'll be devastated if it fails. All of these things are completely irrational.

What's really funny is these same people don't apply their conversational tomfoolery in other places like the MuteButton thread.

Like I said it seems to me like the possibility of a full blown cure is driving these people nuts and there really could only be one reason why anyone on this earth would be concerned about this because there's only one negative outcome, and that is the disruptive economic effect it would have on the multi billion dollar hearing aid industry.

https://fullertonhearing.com/2017/12/26/the-worlds-biggest-hearing-aid-companies/

I 100% guarantee that these companies are fully aware of Frequency Therapeutics and are shitting themselves right now. If they came out in December and said "FX-322 kicks ass and the test subjects had their hearing restored" these companies' stocks would take a huge hit.

They started talking about regenerating human hearing seriously back in 2013. They know. And we all know corporations are all ran by greedy investment bankers that care far more about profits than helping people.

Even recently someone recommended that 85dbT should wear his hearing aids all day. They don't do squat to heal tinnitus, they just cover it up. Besides we all know earbuds can damage hearing and cause tinnitus, and how is a hearing aid any different?

There's huge interests at stake here. My only interest is having my tinnitus be gone. There's some other people in this forum that are completely disabled from their level of tinnitus.

This trial for FX-322, it is the real drug, it is in real damaged human cochleas, this is the GRAND HEARING LOSS AND TINNITUS EXPERIMENT.

Think about how pissed these investment bankers with top shares in hearing aid companies would be if we did in fact somehow by the Grace of God get them to comment on the effect on hearing loss and it was positive? Instantly their stocks would drop. Instantly.

So my question is: are there people posing as fellow sufferers on this forum lurking around and doing damage control? My mind cannot process why anyone with tinnitus wouldn't be super interested in this drug.

My mind goes to the blue screen of death when I see people flat out argue that we shouldn't worry about this drug and that they think it will fail in total opposition to the stupendous amount of information that points to it actually succeeding.

 

[hans799]

I 100% guarantee that these companies are fully aware of Frequency Therapeutics and are shitting themselves right now. If they came out in December and said "FX-322 kicks ass and the test subjects had their hearing restored" these companies' stocks would take a huge hit.

I'll dance on their graves. It would be a glorious moment.

 

[Paulmanlike]

@JohnAdams

It is possible that one of the side effects of progenitor cell activation is that they may keep on dividing and ultimately you may not be able to switch the process off...hence...you might grow an extra head.

I don't know how I will cope with another John Adams on Tinnitus Talk praising a cure that has not even been proved yet.

 

[Peter61]

I can only hope that FX-322 will finally turn off the incessantly ongoing hissing sound in my head, this feeling of fulness, as if my brain is constantly electronically wired, and that it will give me back my good old life, when I could fully enjoy heavenly silence and when my hearing just functioned in a normal way, as it should.

If FX-322 might prove to be successful, I'd be eternally grateful. If there are people here trying to downplay or discourage the use of this revolutionary drug, because they are somehow connected to the hearing aid industry, I can only tell them to go fuck themselves.

 

[d'Wooluf]

Even recently someone recommended that 85dbT should wear his hearing aids all day. They don't do squat to heal tinnitus, they just cover it up.

That was me trying to state the bleeding obvious. Sorry.

So... How terrible to wear hearing aids all day (hundreds of thousands of people manage it somehow). Yep. Makes much more sense to do absolutely nothing until FX-322 passes all trials and is made available for treatment. Assuming that happens. Sorry, forgot. That's 100% certain. Assuming also that restoring hearing cures tinnitus for everyone. Sorry, forgot again. No question about that either.

Never mind that a 2007 survey by the American Tinnitus Association found that 60% of tinnitus sufferers received some relief from hearing aids and 22% received significant relief. Hearing aids have gotten a whole lot better since then by the way. Never mind that a member of this forum reported that using hearing aids reduced his tinnitus to a 1. Nope, 'covering up' tinnitus is not good enough. Just fight the good fight and hang out for that complete cure.

Sorry about the sarcasm but you're driving me nuts and I don't think I'm the only one.

 

[dmorg]

That was me trying to state the bleeding obvious. Sorry.

So... How terrible to wear hearing aids all day (hundreds of thousands of people manage it somehow). Yep. Makes much more sense to do absolutely nothing until FX-322 passes all trials and is made available for treatment. Assuming that happens. Sorry, forgot. That's 100% certain. Assuming also that restoring hearing cures tinnitus for everyone. Sorry, forgot again. No question about that either.

Never mind that a 2007 survey by the American Tinnitus Association found that 60% of tinnitus sufferers received some relief from hearing aids and 22% received significant relief. Hearing aids have gotten a whole lot better since then by the way. Never mind that a member of this forum reported that using hearing aids reduced his tinnitus to a 1. Nope, 'covering up' tinnitus is not good enough. Just fight the good fight and hang out for that complete cure.

Sorry about the sarcasm but you're driving me nuts and I don't think I'm the only one.

d'Wooluf I have to agree with you. I do not want to discourage people from sharing news and asking provocative questions but rampant, unbridled speculation is not helpful.

Nobody, not even the founders of FX-322 knows if this "works". They gave the drug to 16 people. Unless they have figured out a way to ask a friggin mouse or chimp how well they can hear, they do not really know.

I carry my hearing loss and tinnitus around with me everyday, just like many others here. There is nothing more that I want than some kind of treatment that could turn the clock back a few years let alone a full- blown cure. These hearing-aid companies may have one-eye on this but are hardly shaking in their boots at this point.

Who is to say what the future holds. Maybe FX-322 improves hearing enough to use in conjunction with a hearing aid?

Who wants to be the "guy" to greenlight the drug prematurely and severe unintended consequences start to appear in patients.

Frequency Therapeutics would be blown out of the water. And then where would they/we be. Dead in the water. I really hope they are on to something here.

 

[katri]

@JohnAdams

It is possible that one of the side effects of progenitor cell activation is that they may keep on dividing and ultimately you may not be able to switch the process off...hence...you might grow an extra head.

I don't know how I will cope with another John Adams on Tinnitus Talk praising a cure that has not even been proved yet.

Dude, they grow hair cells only. Watch a VIDEO!!!

The solution eventually dissolves and they've been carrying out the same experiment for years with NO cancerous regeneration. It grows the cells where they need to be because it's NATURAL. If you don't think we've talked about every single case against this drug within the last 2 years, then you're wrong.

Just admit that you don't know what progenitor cell activation actually is or that you're just messing with us. You like shady posts and only ever share the negative because that's what you see half of everyone else saying.

I'm getting really sick of the negative attitudes on these threads. If you don't know how to cope then IGNORE HIM. There is a literal button for that.

I don't mean to sound angry but I am. Idk what it is. All these grown adults on these forums are arguing like children. I don't know if FX-322 works and I'll admit sometimes what JohnAdams says is a little crazy. Just trust that everyone is coming from a nice place. It seems like some people are literally on the offense until people start exploding. It's all sorts of disgusting and I don't support any of it. I've watched John take a lot of crap before he started to seriously dish it out. He's blunt but most of your posts are blunt too.

If you're mad.....ignore. It's a simple click. Just stay off this thread and block John and I promise you that Frequency Therapeutics won't be brought up as much.

 

[JohnAdams]

Nobody, not even the founders of FX-322 knows if this "works".

LOL you don't know that.

They gave the drug to 16 people. Unless they have figured out a way to ask a friggin mouse or chimp how well they can hear, they do not really know.

LOL WUT?
Maybe they could ask one of the 16 people?

And uh, yeah they can measure hearing levels in mice. Here's the study where they successfully restored hearing in mice with the same technology.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3573859/

Stop spreading ignorance, it's contagious.

 

[Ed209]

I don't mean to sound angry but I am. Idk what it is. All these grown adults on these forums are arguing like children.

I haven't read the entire thread, but a lot of it is just reasoned debate. I don't think anybody is being malicious and we can't expand our knowledge if we all just sit around agreeing with each other all day. Every day is a school day and I've been schooled many times. None of us has all the answers, so sometimes it's good to listen to what others think or believe. To me, it's a key point to a forum, and it's also a key to success in general.

Learn, acknowledge, adapt.

 

[JohnAdams]

@glynis
Check this Frequency Therapeutics Patent
https://patents.google.com/patent/US9968615B2/en
Inventor
Christopher Loose
Will MCLEAN
Melissa HILL-DRZEWI


"Among other things, the methods presented here are useful for the preparation of pharmaceutical formulations for the prophylaxis and/or treatment of acute and chronic ear disease and hearing loss, dizziness and balance problems especially of sudden hearing loss, acoustic trauma, hearing loss due to chronic noise exposure, presbycusis, trauma during implantation of the inner ear prosthesis (insertion trauma), dizziness due to diseases of the inner ear area, dizziness related and/or as a symptom of Meniere's disease, vertigo related and/or as a symptom of Meniere's disease, tinnitus, and hearing loss due to antibiotics and cytostatics and other drugs."

Will McLean

FYI you can't just get a patent unless you have some sort of evidence that you can actually do what your patent describes. Otherwise I could just file a patent for anti-gravity boots, or an ice-cream glove or something without proving I can actually produce it.

 

[katri]

@Ed209 I haven't seen you be malicious. You're just cool and calculated to me. There are other people that are completely disrespectful at times. It seems like it is for no reason too.

It has nothing to do with constructive criticism because we have all done it. People need to recognize that there is a respectful way to ask a question or say that you don't believe Frequency Therapeutics will work.