Frequency Therapeutics — Hearing Loss Regeneration

[Jack V]

That's why I think it's important to clarify: my hearing loss doesn't bother me as much as my tinnitus. I can compare my own symptoms to one another, but not to somebody else's.

Sure. Still, yours is a common position, widely expressed.

And it's not lost on Frequency Therapeutics that a thread about the potential ramifications for tinnitus with FX-322 has been viewed over 1.5 million times.

 

[GlennS]

Imagine getting paid to come up with "Jenfoniq".

 

[Aionly]

But I'm sure it depends on the hearing loss, the tinnitus and the individual.

Yup, I was the guy telling everyone how much I love playing with these high frequencies in my songs and now they are gone. The tinnitus doesn't even bother me anymore.

 

[HootOwl]

Imagine getting paid to come up with "Jenfoniq".

This is giving me strong Tynnyfer vibes.

 

[FGG]

That's why I think it's important to clarify: my hearing loss doesn't bother me as much as my tinnitus. I can compare my own symptoms to one another, but not to somebody else's.

Slightly off topic, but one of the March "vote for your favorite research papers" was a "which is worse pain or tinnitus?" paper. The conclusion appeared to be that mild pain is worse than mild tinnitus but after that, it depends and having both really sucks and it also depends on the individual. Btw, for the people who did vote on that one, why?

Anyway, this "which is worse" debate made me think of that, because it's also really subjective, just like that paper.

 

[Keith Handy]

Btw, for the people who did vote on that one, why?

Maybe to make a point about taking tinnitus more seriously.

 

[Tezcatlipoca]

There are a lot of ways to manage pain, there are no ways to manage tinnitus...

 

[FGG]

Maybe to make a point about taking tinnitus more seriously.

Maybe, but the actual paper sort of did the opposite since it suggested neither is as bad unless you have both cervical pain and tinnitus because the fatigue was greater in the individuals with both. Was kind of an odd study to me.

 

[Gb3]

Yup, I was the guy telling everyone how much I love playing with these high frequencies in my songs and now they are gone. The tinnitus doesn't even bother me anymore.

Then your tinnitus probably isn't that bad.

 

[kiki]

Reading through his publications, he wrote a book a few years ago on new ways to use Electrocochleography (ECochG) data. This was mentioned in a description of the book:

"A major long-term goal of ECochG is to help differentiate outer hair cell (OHC) from inner hair cell (IHC) or presynaptic losses..."

He's also an author on this publication:

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0,34&as_vis=1&q=Jeffery+T.+Lichtenhan&btnG=#d=gs_qabs&u=#p=sAKJs2geZm0J

Anyone know the difference between DPOAEs and SFOAEs?

Are they going to change the main hearing index from WR to OAE? Does this new recruitment reflect that? Is OAE improved to measure EHF as well?

Those who wish to participate in clinical trials will be able to cheat the measurement results with PTA as well as with WR. They can cheat by not clicking, even if they can hear it. Even PTA for EHF.

 

[Diesel]

Are they going to change the main hearing index from WR to OAE? Does this new recruitment reflect that? Is OAE improved to measure EHF as well?

Those who wish to participate in clinical trials will be able to cheat the measurement results with PTA as well as with WR. They can cheat by not clicking, even if they can hear it. Even PTA for EHF.

I suspect there will be more objective measures in addition to the standard clinical measures used for entrance, baseline, and follow-up.

 

[FGG]

Are they going to change the main hearing index from WR to OAE? Does this new recruitment reflect that? Is OAE improved to measure EHF as well?

Those who wish to participate in clinical trials will be able to cheat the measurement results with PTA as well as with WR. They can cheat by not clicking, even if they can hear it. Even PTA for EHF.

Word Scores measure IHCs, OAEs measure OHCs. If anything this would just be an additional test.

 

[Zugzug]

This is a SUPER common thing to see in the chronic disease patient forum world.

Chronic disease is not at all relatable but people THINK they understand from hearing about other people's experience and wind up making sweeping claims.

For example "I'd rather have CANCER!" comes up all the time all over the place. Having lived with my mother while cancer did her in I don't think these people have any idea what cancer and cancer treatment can be like.

I think many diseases sound "fine" to deal with when they in fact destroy your life in ways you can't imagine unless you're there.

Tying this back to FX-322, this is why I think if the drug has a positive impact on the lives of any treatment group (even if it doesn't include me), it will be a meaningful success.

I definitely agree with you in spirit, but I do think tinnitus and hyperacusis (in disabling forms) have a notably high suffering to empathy ratio.

 

[Zugzug]

Slightly off topic, but one of the March "vote for your favorite research papers" was a "which is worse pain or tinnitus?" paper. The conclusion appeared to be that mild pain is worse than mild tinnitus but after that, it depends and having both really sucks and it also depends on the individual. Btw, for the people who did vote on that one, why?

Anyway, this "which is worse" debate made me think of that, because it's also really subjective, just like that paper.

Amen. I had debilitating chronic bodily pain and fatigue for years. As bad as it was, my loudness hyperacusis (minimal pain) has been so much worse for me, really in every way. Suffering, impact on career, personal life, etc.

Everything is about severity.

 

[Mr. G]

I see on the ClinicalTrials.gov site that Frequency Therapeutics is recruiting for their FX-322 Phase 1b study, single dose.

It says they are actively recruiting in 6 different states.

Has anyone tried to be included in this study?

 

[Brian Newman]

Uh... growing limbs for people? Do you mean transplants?

No, I saw videos of them taking stem cells from people and using it to grow ears and fingers and arms. I saw it in 2017.

 

[Brian Newman]

For example "I'd rather have CANCER!" comes up all the time all over the place. Having lived with my mother while cancer did her in I don't think these people have any idea what cancer and cancer treatment can be like.

I think many diseases sound "fine" to deal with when they in fact destroy your life in ways you can't imagine unless you're there.

Tying this back to FX-322, this is why I think if the drug has a positive impact on the lives of any treatment group (even if it doesn't include me), it will be a meaningful success.

Sadly I've read 3 or 4 posts of people on here who got tinnitus from chemotherapy and they said they would take the cancer again over the tinnitus, they have it that bad.

Obviously it's not worse than a cancer that can't be treated, like pancreatic cancer or something like that.

 

[Jim Vasilakis]

You most likely have. Every human on earth has hearing loss to some degree

Can you elaborate on that please? My latest audiogram shows a 5 dB drop on the 4 kHz range in my left ear. Is this normal?

Do all humans have a drop on some frequency?

 

[Trevor_phillips]

Do all humans have a drop on some frequency?

I don't think that's the case for everyone. It's pretty common, especially for young people with good habits to have 0 dB loss or even +5 dB gain on every frequencies. It was my case before noise damaged my hearing which drove me to noxacusis and hearing loss at a certain degree. I would do anything to have that hearing again...

"We are aware about the value of something when we lose it."

 

[Jim Vasilakis]

It's pretty common, especially for young people with good habits to have 0 dB loss or even +5 dB gain on every frequencies. It was my case before noise damaged my hearing which drove me to noxacusis and hearing loss at a certain degree.

In my case my ENT thinks my 5 dB hearing loss is the cause of my tinnitus but I don't know how likely that is.

 

[Diesel]

In my case my ENT thinks my 5 dB hearing loss is the cause of my tinnitus but I don't know how likely that is.

I know it varies per person, but my audiogram is between 0 dB and -10 dB up to 6 kHz. From there is a drop to 8 kHz to -20 dB. It goes downhill from there in the EHF. Most of my tinnitus is high frequency sounds, around 10 kHz and up. So, my theory as it relates to the audiogram (as vague as it is) is that the losses need to be substantial to start experiencing tinnitus.

 

[Jim Vasilakis]

I know it varies per person, but my audiogram is between 0 dB and -10 dB up to 6 kHz. From there is a drop to 8 kHz to -20 dB. It goes downhill from there in the EHF. Most of my tinnitus is high frequency sounds, around 10 kHz and up. So, my theory as it relates to the audiogram (as vague as it is) is that the losses need to be substantial to start experiencing tinnitus.

Huh interesting. My ENT can't do an extended audiogram but he doesn't believe it's necessary since the trajectory from 6 kHz to 8 kHz is going up instead of down. I have debated long and hard whether that 5 dB drop is the cause of my tinnitus. I wish i knew.

Anyway, what is the current consensus on FX-322 according to you? You seem to be one of the most level headed people here.

 

[Diesel]

Huh interesting. My ENT can't do an extended audiogram but he doesn't believe it's necessary since the trajectory from 6 kHz to 8 kHz is going up instead of down. I have debated long and hard whether that 5 dB drop is the cause of my tinnitus. I wish i knew.

Anyway, what is the current consensus on FX-322 according to you? You seem to be one of the most level headed people here.

One thing to note is the assessment capability of the audiogram is extremely narrow. For example, I suspect I have a dip around 5 kHz that doesn't even show up on the audiogram because it is between 4 kHz and 6 kHz.

As it relates to FX-322, I think it stands to reason that for many, tinnitus is a symptom of losing enough of those fragile high frequency IHC and/or OHC. FX-322 has shown some evidence of restoring hearing and improving tinnitus from the Phase 1/2. Tinnitus and EHF are being measured in the current Phase 1Bs, so we may learn more about what he drug is doing in those high ranges.

I think there's enough evidence to support that restoring signal by restoring hair cells in the cochlea so provide some level of relief. Now, it's a matter of getting the product into the market, and enough patients taking the drug off-label and providing anecdotes.

 

[kiki]

One thing to note is the assessment capability of the audiogram is extremely narrow. For example, I suspect I have a dip around 5 kHz that doesn't even show up on the audiogram because it is between 4 kHz and 6 kHz.

As it relates to FX-322, I think it stands to reason that for many, tinnitus is a symptom of losing enough of those fragile high frequency IHC and/or OHC. FX-322 has shown some evidence of restoring hearing and improving tinnitus from the Phase 1/2. Tinnitus and EHF are being measured in the current Phase 1Bs, so we may learn more about what he drug is doing in those high ranges.

I think there's enough evidence to support that restoring signal by restoring hair cells in the cochlea so provide some level of relief. Now, it's a matter of getting the product into the market, and enough patients taking the drug off-label and providing anecdotes.

My left ear PTA is 1 kHz & 2 kHz 15 dB, 4 kHz 35 dB, 8 kHz 55 dB, and I have high frequency tinnitus. I hope that FX-322 has an effect on 8 kHz or higher even if it does not have an effect on up to 4 kHz, and that tinnitus in that band will improve. The 4 kHz band will wait for the next version. This wish is premised on success. We wish FX-322 success and a quick launch.

 

[OptimusPrimed]

One thing to note is the assessment capability of the audiogram is extremely narrow. For example, I suspect I have a dip around 5 kHz that doesn't even show up on the audiogram because it is between 4 kHz and 6 kHz.

As it relates to FX-322, I think it stands to reason that for many, tinnitus is a symptom of losing enough of those fragile high frequency IHC and/or OHC. FX-322 has shown some evidence of restoring hearing and improving tinnitus from the Phase 1/2. Tinnitus and EHF are being measured in the current Phase 1Bs, so we may learn more about what he drug is doing in those high ranges.

I think there's enough evidence to support that restoring signal by restoring hair cells in the cochlea so provide some level of relief. Now, it's a matter of getting the product into the market, and enough patients taking the drug off-label and providing anecdotes.

Where is this evidence? That it would provide some sort of relief?

 

[Diesel]

Where is this evidence? That it would provide some sort of relief?

3 out of 6 of the super responders reported improvements in their tinnitus. I shared a link and screenshot to the international patent that Frequency Therapeutics filed for FX-322 a few pages back.

 

[Jim Vasilakis]

One thing to note is the assessment capability of the audiogram is extremely narrow. For example, I suspect I have a dip around 5 kHz that doesn't even show up on the audiogram because it is between 4 kHz and 6 kHz.

As it relates to FX-322, I think it stands to reason that for many, tinnitus is a symptom of losing enough of those fragile high frequency IHC and/or OHC. FX-322 has shown some evidence of restoring hearing and improving tinnitus from the Phase 1/2. Tinnitus and EHF are being measured in the current Phase 1Bs, so we may learn more about what he drug is doing in those high ranges.

I think there's enough evidence to support that restoring signal by restoring hair cells in the cochlea so provide some level of relief. Now, it's a matter of getting the product into the market, and enough patients taking the drug off-label and providing anecdotes.

How do you suspect you have a dip at 5 kHz? Is there any way to gauge that?

Regarding FX-322, when we will have a clearer picture? Summer?

 

[Diesel]

How do you suspect you have a dip at 5 kHz? Is there any way to gauge that?

Regarding FX-322, when we will have a clearer picture? Summer?

Headphones and a pure tone generator app. More results are anticipated by end of Q2 and Q3.

 

[Sentinel]

Seems there's been a lack of info from Frequency Therapeutics on EHF restoration, with the only audiogram changes being the 10 dB at 8 kHz. People have speculated that the gains above that would be higher, and I think it's gonna be interesting to see if/when it gets released as to whether or not people have more EHF losses than expected and their tinnitus reduces accordlingly.

 

[Tezcatlipoca]

Seems there's been a lack of info from Frequency Therapeutics on EHF restoration, with the only audiogram changes being the 10 dB at 8 kHz. People have speculated that the gains above that would be higher, and I think it's gonna be interesting to see if/when it gets released as to whether or not people have more EHF losses than expected and their tinnitus reduces accordlingly.

Not really a lack of info, they're going to release that in the full readout.