Gamma-Aminobutyric Acid-Benzodiazepine-Chloride Receptor (GABA/BZ/Cl)
- Thread starter Neenie
- Start date
Member"They hypothesize that this deficiency in the GABA receptor is directly related to the worsening of tinnitus, which is marked by increased emotional difficulty, anxiety, stress, depression and fear." Makes perfect sense to me.
So TRT might actually make you T lower/softer, and not just trick you to "lock it out"?
Member... and if it doesn't, who cares?????
Think about it for just a moment. You are the only person who hears your tinnitus, right? And if you are not paying attention to it (i.e., if you are not aware of it), then regardless of low loud it might be at any given time, it just doesn't matter.
I know that the above concept is counter-intuitive. The logical thinking is that the less loud it is, the less you will tend to be aware of it. But the fact of the matter is that in the year 2014 we simply do not have a method of predictably making tinnitus less loud. Sure, anecdotes abound, but the search for the holy grail of tinnitus - the search for a cure or at least for a way to predictably and lastingly decrease the strength of the tinnitus signal - has to this point in time been one of frustration. So I say, "Leave that search to researchers and donate to that cause." But for now, perhaps seriously consider the habituation-based approaches - those approaches that result in decreased awareness of tinnitus irrespective of how loud it might be.
Because, again, if you are not aware of your tinnitus ... what do you care how loud it is!!??
sp
That`s a wishy woshy sience to me. Of someone stands behaind a wall you can not pay attention to him, if he is right in fornt of you - you can not `not` pay attention to him. T hasn`t got anything to do with attention or not. It s a neorological cause with an effect. it`s not psychological (most of the time) or dismissable. It is an actual experience. It`s like chopping of your arm and than saying, now don`t pay attention to the pain ... the pain won`t go away.
So if you don`t pay attention to your tinnitus and you are not aware of it .......... it means you don`t have tinnitus! find another forum and be happy
So if you don`t pay attention to your tinnitus and you are not aware of it .......... it means you don`t have tinnitus! find another forum and be happy
As I see it, the science isn't wishy woshy at all.
There are many things that are right in front of you that you do not attend to. And that's because in order to function, your brain must prioritize. It can only attend to so many things at once.
How does the brain determine which things (i.e., which stimuli) to attend to? Well, for one thing, it does not attend to those stimuli that it classifies as neutral. That's why you see the monitor screen right in front of you, but you do not see the monitor's brand name that is likely just below or just above the the screen unless you purposely seek it. And why within but a few moments you will again become unaware of the brand name unless you purposely seek it once more. Yet it's still right in front of you!
So as I see it, until such time that research comes up with a way to predictably and lastingly mitigate the tinnitus signal itself, it is worth considering those approaches that facilitate changing the way the brain classifies your tinnitus. Because the farther down the priority list your brain places your tinnitus (i.e., the more neutral), the less you will be aware of it. Even though it is right in front of your face.
Not wishy washy science at all, @nills. No, it is very elegant science indeed.
In my opinion, anyway.
Stephen Nagler
- Feb 9, 2014
- 536
- Tinnitus Since
- 03/2013
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Likely stress, anxiety, an antibiotic and nsaids
- Jan 25, 2013
- 3,576
- Tinnitus Since
- 2008
- Cause of Tinnitus
- TMJ disorder, airplane barotrauma, noise exposure.
I have talked to Dr. Shulman briefly in the past and have used Gabapentin + Klonopin with mixed results. It seems your brain gets more tolerant of that combo and loses its effect with time.
http://www.tinnituscenter.com/
Perhaps it's not just a case of having enough GABA, but getting the GABA activated in your brain - hence TRT, meditation, yoga (apparently studies suggest that yoga and meditation elevate brain GABA levels).
I think I understand what's being said about the brain prioritizing, I suppose it's kind of like driving in the rain, how many of us actually noticed the wipers going back-and-forth? even though they are right in our face. there have been times when the rain has stopped and I didn't realize that the wipers were still going until they start to scratch on the glass. I know this was kind of a silly analogy but it was all I could think of.
I take your point Dr. Nagler - but it does kind of imply you need to present your brain with a list of priorities to ignore the T - but what about those times you just want to relax. You sit in your house in a quiet room and you notice the little things you walk past every day - sure I can avoid ever sitting quietly and relaxing and maybe I'll never notice my T but I can't pretend that's a great outcome even if it's the best there is for now.
@Tom KW, are you kidding me? Your analogy wasn't silly. It was perfect - and far far better than mine. @nills wrote: "Of someone stands behaind a wall you can not pay attention to him, if he is right in fornt of you - you can not `not` pay attention to him." - and your terrific windshield wiper analogy was an example of "someone" not just standing right in front of you, but actually waving at you ... yet you do not "see" the arms waving back and forth because your brain classifies that stimulus as neutral.
Excellent!
And while we're at it, @nills brings up an interesting point when he writes: "It is an actual experience. It`s like chopping of your arm and than saying, now don`t pay attention to the pain ... the pain won`t go away." Well he's right, of course. The thing of it is, however, that the neural pathways within the brain for pain and temperature are unique in that regard; they have little in common with the visual pathways (sight), olfactory pathways (smell), tactile pathways (touch), gustatory pathways (taste), and the auditory pathways. So the chopping off your arm analogy does not hold water when it comes to habituating tinnitus. (But I very much like @nills's critical thinking!)
Stephen Nagler
@tom68, you cannot simply present your brain with a list of priorities to ignore your tinnitus. (At least it's not a very good strategy in the long run!) Think of the fellow who lives near the railroad tracks but is largely unaware of the trains going by. He might be distracted by every tenth train or so, but most of the time the sound of the train does not "register." Even when he's just relaxing, he doesn't "hear" most of the trains. Now there are two things he can do to pretty much insure that he will hear every train every time. The first is to try purposely to hear them. And the second is to try purposely not to hear them! (Which is sort of what you're talking about in presenting your brain with a list of priorities.) The way the guy near the tracks gets his brain to classify the sound of the trains as a neutral stimulus ... is by allowing it to happen! Yes, I know, much easier with trains outside your head than with screaming tinnitus inside your head - but the same principle applies.
Stephen Nagler
Even though the stimulus is `neutral` it is still registered ... not cured imo. it`s not about psychological escape ... i want fysiological release. no sound even if I want to pay attention to it.
Because I love silence, I love being able to put attention on `nothing` and `silence` ... even with tinnitus there is a silence beyond the outside and inside silence ... but tinnitus is such an attention grabber that it is a diffrent experience and efect than before ...
They say alot of people don`t notice their tinntus. I bet that those people love to talk, hang out in busy places and get of on their own imagination and thought ... people like me that love to keep quit, be in nature and prefer not to think too much ... they will visit forums like these to find cures.
Because I love silence, I love being able to put attention on `nothing` and `silence` ... even with tinnitus there is a silence beyond the outside and inside silence ... but tinnitus is such an attention grabber that it is a diffrent experience and efect than before ...
They say alot of people don`t notice their tinntus. I bet that those people love to talk, hang out in busy places and get of on their own imagination and thought ... people like me that love to keep quit, be in nature and prefer not to think too much ... they will visit forums like these to find cures.
@nills, I'm sure that's what most folks here want - a cure. It was @Erlend, not I, who introduced TRT to this thread. And we all know that TRT is not a cure by any means. But that doesn't mean it's not based on good science.
And because I love life as much as I love science, I have learned that in order to get the most out of life and science, you have to be able to appreciate the grays and well as the blacks & whites. As far as your reference to tinnitus as "an attention grabber" goes, your tinnitus is an attention grabber specifically because your brain does not classify your tinnitus as a neutral stimulus. (You are far from alone in that regard.) On the other hand, my extremely loud tinnitus is not an attention grabber - because my brain does classify it as a neutral stimulus. Just like you do not "see" the windshield wipers (thanks, @tom68) waving in front of your face looking for attention, I do not hear my tinnitus screaming in my ears and looking for attention. Of course, you can see the windshield wipers if you purposely look for them, and every once in a while you might notice them even if you do not purposely seek them - but that's exactly how it is with my tinnitus. And it all comes down to how my brain classifies my tinnitus as opposed to how your brain classifies yours.
In a nutshell, that's what TRT did for me.
Stephen
I think this is really something.
I will try and asked to try this medication when I go to the Clinic for 6 weeks.
I did do TRT but in the end everything I learned there I read beforehand on TT it was just explained to me a little better. What helped me in the end was to quit my job relaxed take 15 mg of Mirtazapine to sleep better and do an MBSR course.
I am really fond of MBSR at first. I did not know what to think of it but I helps me a lot and this might be due to that fact that meditation raises GABA activity.
Right now I am battling a small depression due to the fact that they had me test 30 mg of Mirtazapine after 6 day I felt awful and went back to 15 mg. Strange enough it gave me 30 min of complete silence after I stopped the next day. Don't know where that came from but now I am starting again with MBSR and hope that it will have the same effect as it did before.
I will try and asked to try this medication when I go to the Clinic for 6 weeks.
I did do TRT but in the end everything I learned there I read beforehand on TT it was just explained to me a little better. What helped me in the end was to quit my job relaxed take 15 mg of Mirtazapine to sleep better and do an MBSR course.
I am really fond of MBSR at first. I did not know what to think of it but I helps me a lot and this might be due to that fact that meditation raises GABA activity.
Right now I am battling a small depression due to the fact that they had me test 30 mg of Mirtazapine after 6 day I felt awful and went back to 15 mg. Strange enough it gave me 30 min of complete silence after I stopped the next day. Don't know where that came from but now I am starting again with MBSR and hope that it will have the same effect as it did before.
I'm also on Mirtazapine. My doc put me on it when I was having my T for a month. Now it has been 4 months taking it and my T just got worse. Hmm can I blame it on Mirtazapine? I'm also taking 30 mg per each night.
Mirtazapine shouldn't have caused any negative changes. It's widely prescribed to people with tinnitus. I've been on it for over a year with no negative effects.
Hi Silvio
I agree. But I have seen some comments on the forum that people claim they have lost some hearing due this drug. I do not know what to think
Mirtazapine is a drug that has been out on the market for a very long time. It's been prescribed to literately millions of people yet tinnitus is not on the list of side-effects. It is also not on any list among ototoxic drugs. In fact it's one of the few anti-depressants that doesn't occasionally cause or worsen tinnitus. Many other anti-depressants can cause tinnitus and also have it on their list of side effects.
Try to remember that this is a public forum with lots of educated, well informed people. But also a lot of poorly educated and not so well informed people.
In any case I would trust a trained professional over an anonymous poster on a public board on the internet.
Yeah I am on 15 mg for sleep wich is fine went to 30 mg to test but that did not suit me. So I am back on 15 mg.
GABA is deficient in people with chronic stress. Tinnitus causes stress. Mind-body stuff increases GABA. This has been known for decades. In all probability the horse (Tinnitus stress on the limbic system) preceeds the cart (low GABA), not the other way around.
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