Habituation Isn't a Myth, It Is an Impossibility

[Bassplayer]

Trolls are people like threefourfire. I don't know about any sympathy freaks but I will say that I consider almost every ENT, audiologist, neurologist, or any other medical professional who sells CBT, TRT, hearing aids, or expensive and fruitless visits to a tinnitus "clinic" to be snake oil salesman. Their advice should largely be ignored and not trusted.

Do you know what, I have wondered if you are the same person? Your posts are very similar.

I have given my opinions already about those who make money out of helping people 'move on' and help them to be happy. It's better than making money out of causing misery!

In the ideal Utopian world we'd just wake up in the morning with the aim of using our gifts to help others. Unfortunately greed and control freaks got in the way and came up with the concept of money. :-(

 

[Greg Sacramento]

I think that most can agree that habituation is possible for the large majority. I was certainly able to habituate from my subjective tinnitus which was still at a very high level.

For a minority: With high pitch somatic tinnitus sometimes there's pain from other sources causing one's tinnitus. It could be occipital neuralgia which is chronic pain in the upper neck, back of the head and eyes. I have this.
Then some have trigeminal neuralgia which can be compared to severe electric shock-life sensations. For these people it would be unfair to say that they can habituate. This is why the University of Illinois studies of tinnitus and the brain is so important. So the best treatments can be put forth for those having severe tinnitus with related or unrelated pain.
The link below explains this.

http://www.pnas.org/content/108/20/8075.full

 

[Gl0w0ut]

Do you know what, I have wondered if you are the same person? Your posts are very similar.

I have given my opinions already about those who make money out of helping people 'move on' and help them to be happy. It's better than making money out of causing misery!

In the ideal Utopian world we'd just wake up in the morning with the aim of using our gifts to help others. Unfortunately greed and control freaks got in the way and came up with the concept of money. :-(

I am NOT the same as that asshole, who has been blocked for about six months now. He and I are on different sides of the country. I'm not so petty as to make a separate account just to make people miserable. I think I do a good enough job of that as it is. Honestly, seeing all these optimistic people piss me off to a certain degree. Why the fuck do I have have to suffer? Why did the two people of my parents have to meet, fall in love, marry, and give me the shittiest combination of genes a person could have.

Why do I have to have this condition at such a young age while other people can blast their music or go to thrasher shows with no repercussion?! The fuck did I ever do aside from blare my music like they do and go to two live shows? Why does my life have to be miserable. I'm so sick and tired of being told by others how I'm a "nice guy" (hard to believe I know) and how I "deserve to be happy", yet life sticks me with this condition, which brings nothing but misery to my life. At best, its a minor annoyance but that is as good as it gets.

Then when my life becomes in such peril and I threaten to kill myself, suddenly all these people I barely talk to or hang out with suddenly care about my well being and reach out, saying "I'm here if you need to talk". If you're one of those people, you can piss off. If a person has been suffering for months and you only reach out when they're about to kill themselves, you don't really care about them. You don't. You only pretend to so if they do harm themselves you can absolve yourself of having a guilty conscious by saying "well I reached out, I tried to make a difference". What offends me is not your lack of caring, its your facade of caring that offends me.

 

[Gl0w0ut]

My T continues to be very severe and I'm more or less fine with it all the time now. Have faith.

If it's truly "severe" then I doubt you're fine with it. Unless you mean what I think, which is that it is loud, intrusive, and high intensity but your personal affect does not show agitation towards it. If its the latter than you are correct in saying that.

 

[Tinniger]

I've had this loud intrusive and persistent tinnitus for 6 years. (Not caused by noise exposure), I have never habituated, but I've not stopped living and enjoying life. Yes, it sucks, it sucks like hell, but that's life, and that's the crux of it. I have life, not in the way I wanted to enjoy life, but it is what it is.

How do you deal with noise?

 

[Autumnly]

If you can point me to where I said that I'll bite .

All they want is for the noise to go away...and it does for those who want to move on and those who don't keep obsessively listening for it.

I believe the brain does turn down the volume once it stops seeing it as a threat, that also seems to go with pain too.

Sounds to me like everyone can achieve it if they just want it.

 

[Gl0w0ut]

Sounds to me like everyone can achieve it if they just want it.

Clearly not, as many people have demonstrated. Some, as one guy above stated, have literally NEVER habituated. I was fine with the tinnitus until the change in my attention networks as shown by the study occurred during the first six months.

 

[brownbear]

If it's truly "severe" then I doubt you're fine with it. Unless you mean what I think, which is that it is loud, intrusive, and high intensity but your personal affect does not show agitation towards it. If its the latter than you are correct in saying that.

You are almost right. It is loud, intrusive and high intensity (whatever that means) and it previously ruined my life and lead me to attempt suicide. However now, although it has only steadily got a little worse, it barely bothers me, and that's why I say have faith, not because I am one of the lucky ones who are not bothered by T of any level.

 

[threefirefour]

I am NOT the same as that asshole, who has been blocked for about six months now. He and I are on different sides of the country. I'm not so petty as to make a separate account just to make people miserable. I think I do a good enough job of that as it is. Honestly, seeing all these optimistic people piss me off to a certain degree. Why the fuck do I have have to suffer? Why did the two people of my parents have to meet, fall in love, marry, and give me the shittiest combination of genes a person could have.

Why do I have to have this condition at such a young age while other people can blast their music or go to thrasher shows with no repercussion?! The fuck did I ever do aside from blare my music like they do and go to two live shows? Why does my life have to be miserable. I'm so sick and tired of being told by others how I'm a "nice guy" (hard to believe I know) and how I "deserve to be happy", yet life sticks me with this condition, which brings nothing but misery to my life. At best, its a minor annoyance but that is as good as it gets.

Then when my life becomes in such peril and I threaten to kill myself, suddenly all these people I barely talk to or hang out with suddenly care about my well being and reach out, saying "I'm here if you need to talk". If you're one of those people, you can piss off. If a person has been suffering for months and you only reach out when they're about to kill themselves, you don't really care about them. You don't. You only pretend to so if they do harm themselves you can absolve yourself of having a guilty conscious by saying "well I reached out, I tried to make a difference". What offends me is not your lack of caring, its your facade of caring that offends me.

I like how gl0w0ut says I'm a troll, even though he agrees with me on almost everything but says it in a more assholish way.

I also like how he can't get my name right. Let's see if he wises up. Probably not.

 

[Bassplayer]

I am NOT the same as that asshole, who has been blocked for about six months now. He and I are on different sides of the country. I'm not so petty as to make a separate account just to make people miserable. I think I do a good enough job of that as it is. Honestly, seeing all these optimistic people piss me off to a certain degree. Why the fuck do I have have to suffer? Why did the two people of my parents have to meet, fall in love, marry, and give me the shittiest combination of genes a person could have.

Why do I have to have this condition at such a young age while other people can blast their music or go to thrasher shows with no repercussion?! The fuck did I ever do aside from blare my music like they do and go to two live shows? Why does my life have to be miserable. I'm so sick and tired of being told by others how I'm a "nice guy" (hard to believe I know) and how I "deserve to be happy", yet life sticks me with this condition, which brings nothing but misery to my life. At best, its a minor annoyance but that is as good as it gets.

Then when my life becomes in such peril and I threaten to kill myself, suddenly all these people I barely talk to or hang out with suddenly care about my well being and reach out, saying "I'm here if you need to talk". If you're one of those people, you can piss off. If a person has been suffering for months and you only reach out when they're about to kill themselves, you don't really care about them. You don't. You only pretend to so if they do harm themselves you can absolve yourself of having a guilty conscious by saying "well I reached out, I tried to make a difference". What offends me is not your lack of caring, its your facade of caring that offends me.

As others know on here...I do genuinely care. No facade on my part anyway. I genuinely want to help others but also recognise that some people have other motives.

I suppose this is the problem with not communicating face to face with people.

 

[Gl0w0ut]

You are almost right. It is loud, intrusive and high intensity (whatever that means) and it previously ruined my life and lead me to attempt suicide. However now, although it has only steadily got a little worse, it barely bothers me, and that's why I say have faith, not because I am one of the lucky ones who are not bothered by T of any level.

Mine has also gotten worse while my reaction has decreased, not because I've accepted it, or done any therapies or lifestyle changes, but because I am becoming numb and my energy to resist has worn thin. Regardless, my desire is still there.

 

[Hazel]

Honestly, seeing all these optimistic people piss me off to a certain degree. Why the fuck do I have have to suffer? Why did the two people of my parents have to meet, fall in love, marry, and give me the shittiest combination of genes a person could have.

Why do I have to have this condition at such a young age while other people can blast their music or go to thrasher shows with no repercussion?! The fuck did I ever do aside from blare my music like they do and go to two live shows? Why does my life have to be miserable. I'm so sick and tired of being told by others how I'm a "nice guy" (hard to believe I know) and how I "deserve to be happy", yet life sticks me with this condition, which brings nothing but misery to my life. At best, its a minor annoyance but that is as good as it gets.

Then when my life becomes in such peril and I threaten to kill myself, suddenly all these people I barely talk to or hang out with suddenly care about my well being and reach out, saying "I'm here if you need to talk". If you're one of those people, you can piss off. If a person has been suffering for months and you only reach out when they're about to kill themselves, you don't really care about them. You don't. You only pretend to so if they do harm themselves you can absolve yourself of having a guilty conscious by saying "well I reached out, I tried to make a difference". What offends me is not your lack of caring, its your facade of caring that offends me.

Now I feel silly for arguing with you, when you're clearly suffering. I guess what those of us in the pro-habituation camp (though I really don't like to think of there being a divide) are trying to say to you is that there is hope and things can get better for you, even without significant volume reduction. Just because you feel like shit today doesn't mean you'll always feel this way. There are plenty of examples, right here on this forum, of people who contemplated suicide in the past and are leading happy and fulfilling lives today, with tinnitus.

It seems you're dealing with a lot in your life, so it's probably easy for me to say this. But there are people right here on this forum who care and want to help if they can. I truly hope you'll feel better soon. Feel free to reach out if there's anything I can do.

 

[Jazzer]

Among my many scholarly articles I have surveyed in keeping up to date with tinnitus research, I have come to find a few things in landmark studies that seem to greatly undermine the idea purported by both healthcare professionals and users of this site alike. Many of these people claim that habituation, the sensation whereby a tinnitus suffered becomes desensitized to the ringing and largely ignores or eliminated it from consciousness, as the best "cure" or hope we have in this life. While I agree that there is currently no big hope in regards to getting rid of this curse, I want to dispel the myth of habituation once and for all. I will admit my bias in this argument: I have never stood for CBT, TRT, or any other anxiety/depression (not tinnitus) therapy whose end goal is the supposed "habituation".

As the study the link provided below highlight, those with chronic tinnitus have dysfunctions in various neural networks. In this case, those networks are the dorsal attention network (DAN) and default mode network (DMN). The DAN is activated and used when we are required to pay attention to something, when the brain is most active in trying to capture and encode sensory information. When we aren't paying attention to anything, or at rest, we use the DMN, meaning we aren't paying attention to anything and are at rest.

The neuroimaging study found that those with chronic tinnitus seem to constantly use the DAN, meaning our brain is always paying attention to something (likely the noise) and could explain why many suffers constantly feel tired. If this is the case, then the brain constantly using the DAN would mean we never truly habituate and that eliminating it from our mind is impossible. Another study by Josef Rouschecker (I'm not providing a link but he did a TED Talk on tinnitus) suggested a possible gate keeping mechanism of the Thalamic Recticular Nucleus in the limbic system, which in a healthy person suppresses an unwanted sound. When the limbic regulation fails, so too does the TRN, allowing the tinnitus signal to reach levels of consciousness.

Tinnitus happen for many complex changes in the brain, but it seems increasingly obvious that the brain dedicates much of its resources to maintaining attention to it. A meta-analysis paper suggested that tinnitus is the brain's way of trying to prevent apoptosis (neuron death) in the auditory cortex by producing artificial sound so the neurons stay stimulated, rather than letting them die off as they are useless without their accompanies hair cells in the cochlea to give them information.

With this, I conclude that habituation is not what many professionals or users on this site claim it is. I'm sure some of you might respond with "Well I only hear mine when I think about it or its really quiet". It does not disprove my point because it is constantly acting at the level of conscious attention, and your brain makes it very difficult to ignore. There might also be variances in your specific brain, such as a TRN that still partially works, and if you have a positive affect, may allow it to be occasionally suppressed.

But this post is to address those with true, chronic tinnitus that ruins their lives, even on a good day.

The link describing the study from the school that published its is below:

http://illinois.edu/emailer/newsletter/137502.html

@GLOwOut - Having proved to your self very convincingly that "Habituation is not a Myth,
but an Impossibility," I obviously realise that you would make no attempt to achieve it - it doesn't exist.
Out of interest, does any course of action give you any relief whatsoever....?
Have you tried any meditation for instance...?

 

[Bassplayer]

You are almost right. It is loud, intrusive and high intensity (whatever that means) and it previously ruined my life and lead me to attempt suicide. However now, although it has only steadily got a little worse, it barely bothers me, and that's why I say have faith, not because I am one of the lucky ones who are not bothered by T of any level.

I don't believe I'm one of the 'lucky' one's. For one it took me a lot of of will power and for another I started to realise my impatience was a factor in slowing healing down

Faith, love and hope...yes!

 

[brownbear]

I don't believe I'm one of the 'lucky' one's. For one it took me a lot of of will power and for another I started to realise my impatience was a factor in slowing healing down

I'm not referring to you. I was referring to the masses who are not concerned by their T of any level, even when it first starts.

 

[Gl0w0ut]

Now I feel silly for arguing with you, when you're clearly suffering. I guess what those of us in the pro-habituation camp (though I really don't like to think of there being a divide) are trying to say to you is that there is hope and things can get better for you, even without significant volume reduction. Just because you feel like shit today doesn't mean you'll always feel this way. There are plenty of examples, right here on this forum, of people who contemplated suicide in the past and are leading happy and fulfilling lives today, with tinnitus.

It seems you're dealing with a lot in your life, so it's probably easy for me to say this. But there are people right here on this forum who care and want to help if they can. I truly hope you'll feel better soon. Feel free to reach out if there's anything I can do.

Everyone is different, would you agree with that statement? I would probably rate my tinnitus in terms of intensity and intrusiveness as a 4-5/10. That's lower than some people who have an 8 or 9 out 10. Those people, who have much louder and more intrusive tinnitus, are sometimes better off than me because their own personal affect allows them to be calm in the wake of a prolonged, constant stressor.

I am not one of those people. If at a lower intensity, I am more encumbered by tinnitus. My anxiety and stress has run my life, it pretty much always has. Leading to depression and suicidal thoughts I had in the fall (but not so much now). My anger today is more induced my ADHD medication, which agonizes dopamine and thus aggression in some. And its great! Because now I get to realize how this life makes my platelets more sticky and will further increase my chance of dying of heart disease in my 40s. I have enough risk factors going for me, I'm certain of it. And my caniptain today just leads to more clogging, more high blood pressure, etc. All the while I'm told that for the sake of heart disease, and tinnitus, I should change my diet by not eating the salt, fat, and oil rich foods I love.

Great, so to not die, I have to stay miserable. That's how it is with tinnitus, I can either kill myself and stop the noise, the anger, the sorrow. Or I can continue to suffer in hopes of having some happiness, but not true happiness.

 

[ZZZK]

I will settle for nothing short of either a massive reduction in the tones, so they fall below conscious and cause the accompanying neurons in the auditory cortex to die, thus causing the brain to fail in its mission, or a outright cure. Until I have my peace of mind, the ability to sleep without medication or background noise in silence (so in other words not coping, moving on, and being able to sleep without meds or sound with the noise) I will NEVER truly be happy. Even my "happy" days are not truly happy because of this goddamn ringing. I will never truly be happy or smile in a true happy way so long as this noise exists and I am sober.

I've said it before and I will say it again, STOP TRYING TO COPE! All that does is hurt our cause. What doctor wants to cure condition they don't view as a disease and think "oh, they will adjust, no need for further research". I refuse to do any of those therapies, even if they greatly improve my quality of life, give me my true smile back, and let me lead a productive, fruitful, and happy life. I would rather kill myself than do any of that. I want science to know we suffer, so much that it hinders other areas of research and FORCES them to actually look for a cure while simultaneously abandoning attempts to improve or introduce new coping therapies, so that way patients who would improve or cope with such innovation do not.

Why would you set such a ridiculous and currently impossible to achieve (with current medical technology) requirement in order to find happiness? That's setting yourself up for failure. Should an amputee chose to "never truly be happy" until medical science finds a way to regrow their limb? Happiness is a state of mind not something with a checklist of necessary requirements.

Plenty of people who lose their vision to disease or become paralyzed are able to adapt and find happiness and meaning in their lives. Look at what Stephen Hawking accomplished in his life time despite the unsolvable obstacles fate threw his way. Yet he will be talked about for centuries and has left behind a legacy. Does that mean that people who have to deal with issues in their life are happy 24/7? Nope but who is? Happiness is fleeting for all humans at all times healthy and sick. We have tinnitus and it sucks but we don't have a monopoly on human suffering. Lots of people suffer for a variety of reasons and yet many HABITUATE and find new ways to get on with their lives and find meaning and happiness despite their suffering.

If you continue living your life with the mentality that you won't be happy until the noise is completely gone or at least greatly diminished then you will be constantly focusing your mental energy on your T, you will constantly disrupt your mood and state of mind by doing so, and you will reinforce a kind of OCD where you spend your days ruminating on your woes and not moving on with your life. You will be denying yourself the very opportunity to habituate.

 

[Gl0w0ut]

@GLOwOut - Having proved to your self very convincingly that "Habituation is not a Myth,
but an Impossibility," I obviously realise that you would make no attempt to achieve it - it doesn't exist.
Out of interest, does any course of action give you any relief whatsoever....?
Have you tried any meditation for instance...?

How can I meditate against the noise? I admit I haven't tried, but if I can't sleep without medication or noise then how could I meditate? My university has a meditation room, I was in it earlier today. My tinnitus was very noticeable then. How on earth anyone meditates is beyond me, but it is affect. To me, habituation is an impossibility because of my affect and personality.

 

[Gl0w0ut]

Why would you set such a ridiculous and currently impossible to achieve (with current medical technology) requirement in order to find happiness? That's setting yourself up for failure. Should an amputee chose to "never truly be happy" until medical science finds a way to regrow their limb? Happiness is a state of mind not something with a checklist of necessary requirements.

Plenty of people who lose their vision to disease or become paralyzed are able to adapt and find happiness and meaning in their lives. Look at what Stephen Hawking accomplished in his life time despite the unsolvable obstacles fate threw his way. Yet he will be talked about for centuries and has left behind a legacy. Does that mean that people who have to deal with issues in their life are happy 24/7? Nope but who is? Happiness is fleeting for all humans at all times healthy and sick. We have tinnitus and it sucks but we don't have a monopoly on human suffering. Lots of people suffer for a variety of reasons and yet many HABITUATE and find new ways to get on with their lives and find meaning and happiness despite their suffering.

If you continue living your life with the mentality that you won't be happy until the noise is completely gone or at least greatly diminished then you will be constantly focusing your mental energy on your T, you will constantly disrupt your mood and state of mind by doing so, and you will reinforce a kind of OCD where you spend your days ruminating on your woes and not moving on with your life. You will be denying yourself the very opportunity to habituate.

I appreciate your words, but amputees can at least be given artificial limbs to help them walk again. They have a better prognosis than most tinnitus sufferers. And with stem cell research, they may be able to regrow limbs soon. Hair cells are more complicated because we lack cochlear imaging techniques in living people, thus we cannot know if stem cell therapy would work. And even if the lost frequencies were restored, we do not know that the brain would reverse its changed. Given how acute and chronic tinnitus sufferers differ in their brain changes I am inclined to say that likely will not happen. The brain has broken itself in more ways all to preserve some small cluster of cells in the auditory cortex from dying. The brain is the most poorly designed organ the human body depends on, more so than the heart or lungs.

 

[Bassplayer]

I'm not referring to you. I was referring to the

I appreciate your words, but amputees can at least be given artificial limbs to help them walk again. They have a better prognosis than most tinnitus sufferers. And with stem cell research, they may be able to regrow limbs soon. Hair cells are more complicated because we lack cochlear imaging techniques in living people, thus we cannot know if stem cell therapy would work. And even if the lost frequencies were restored, we do not know that the brain would reverse its changed. Given how acute and chronic tinnitus sufferers differ in their brain changes I am inclined to say that likely will not happen. The brain has broken itself in more ways all to preserve some small cluster of cells in the auditory cortex from dying. The brain is the most poorly designed organ the human body depends on, more so than the heart or lungs.

Well you appear pretty intelligent so whatever you end up doing...be nice!

 

[Tempest]

And even if the lost frequencies were restored, we do not know that the brain would reverse its changed. Given how acute and chronic tinnitus sufferers differ in their brain changes I am inclined to say that likely will not happen. The brain has broken itself in more ways all to preserve some small cluster of cells in the auditory cortex from dying. The brain is the most poorly designed organ the human body depends on, more so than the heart or lungs.

I'm still betting my bottom dollar that if hearing cells are restored, the tinnitus will be gone since I still believe that every and each person who has tinnitus, also has hearing loss, they just don't know it, unless it happens right away.

 

[Steve]

You know, my partner jokes that the tinnitus community is like the Judaen Peoples Front. You need to watch Monty Python's Life of Brian to understand this.

We can spend so much time arguing with each other over things like habituation that we defeat our own desire to find a cure.

 

[ZZZK]

I appreciate your words, but amputees can at least be given artificial limbs to help them walk again. They have a better prognosis than most tinnitus sufferers. And with stem cell research, they may be able to regrow limbs soon. Hair cells are more complicated because we lack cochlear imaging techniques in living people, thus we cannot know if stem cell therapy would work. And even if the lost frequencies were restored, we do not know that the brain would reverse its changed. Given how acute and chronic tinnitus sufferers differ in their brain changes I am inclined to say that likely will not happen. The brain has broken itself in more ways all to preserve some small cluster of cells in the auditory cortex from dying. The brain is the most poorly designed organ the human body depends on, more so than the heart or lungs.

I'm sorry but you missed the point of my last posting. This isn't a contest about who suffers more or who has it easier. It's also strange to make a statement like an amputee has "a better prognosis than most tinnitus suffers." Not sure what you mean by that. The best prosthetics can't hold a candle to the dexterity of a real human hand. You can't use a prosthetic if you lose the leg at the hip. And by "regrow soon" we're probably talking technology in 2050+ or beyond. After all in the 1970's they predicted all cancers would be curable by the millennium.

Anyway that is way off topic. The point I was trying to make is that human beings are adaptable enough to deal with major obstacles in their lives and still live their life in a happy and fulfilling manner. Much of that comes down to individual temperament and conscious choice. There are quadruple amputees out there who fell victim to an IED or flesh eating disease who can deal with their situation better than some T sufferers. That doesn't come down to which is a greater obstacle it comes down to how we actually deal with the situation on an individual level. Now of course there is a genetic component of our temperament. Some psyche's are clearly more "hardened" than others. But we can teach ourselves new techniques and methods for dealing with mental obstacles. CBT is a real and proven thing for example. CBT is even visible on an FMRI meaning there are real physical changes happening to the brain. You won't know what you're capable of until you put the effort and time into it. Based on the date in your profile T is still a very new thing for you. Habituation is not a race it's a journey.

Sure everyone habituates differently but you'll greatly impact your habituation ability if you continue to actively go down the path that you are on now. You are being your own worst enemy (as we humans often tend to be). I can sense all the anger and despair you have towards yourself. Give yourself a break. Take each day one challenge at a time and try to find a way to redirect your focus. Seek out professional help if necessary. Don't shut the door on your self and set boundaries on what you are capable of so early in the fight. Other members in here will tell you that they too were in a similar place as you are now and yet have found a way to get their train onto a different track.

 

[glynis]

I'm turning off the commenting on this thread to give members time to think and calm down till tomorrow.
Members may need help, or they want to give support, not cause arguments.