Homeopathy: Products for Tinnitus (Nonsense, or not?)

[Marlene]

My grandfather was a homeopath many years ago talking the 1910 - 20 -30 s long before our NHS.My aunts spoke of how he helped so many local people in Poole,he use to grow all sorts to use,and made these up to the person who was sick from various things,he had all his remedies written down in a book,since his death in 1937 ,the book went missing,I've often said to my last remaining aunt I wish our family still had that book.So I don't dismiss anything related to health and medicines regardless,she remembers a mother rushing to my grandfather with a young child,my grandfather gave the child medicine,the child got better.my aunt's never forgotten how ill that child was to this day.Wish my grandfather was around for me today.Maybe I should look up a homeopath in the morning.
Welcome whatever comes our way in to finding cures.thats everyone's goal to this tinnitus alone.

 

[Steve]

I appreciate that you have a real belief that homeopathy works, the facts unfortunately don't agree.

It's important to remove therapies with genuine ingredients from the umbrella of homeopathy - there are indeed some amazing things that will cure a range of ills in nature. Life saving antibiotics are derived from fungi after all.

The practice of a homeopath however is to take an element from nature and dilute it. The theory is that the more that it is diluted the more potent it is.

The dilutions that are used by homeopathy make it pretty much impossible for even a single molecule of the original element to be contained in any of the medicines.

So without any trace of the plant / herb / element left you are buying a bottle of water.

If you believe that there is power in the homeopathic medicine then I am open to your explanation of why the medicine works, when all an analysis of it will show you is that it is a bottle of water?

 

[coolbeer]

Hey marlene
Thanks for agreeing in this matter, homeopathy could be of great help if the correct remedy is given , but the same remedy doesnt suite everyone, for eg , "kali mur " a cell salt , helps in reducing tinnitus , it may only help 4 out of 10 patients with tinnitus , the other 6 are helped by other remedy for eg - kali phos

The word kali means pottasium , and kali phos is phosphate of pottasium , thus there is no doubt these remedies helps in aleviating tinnitus , because recently it was discussed that tinnitus is due to the pottasium channels in the brain .

I have read recently that homeopathy belladona has helped a lot of people on abc homeopathy site , where one guy got 80% reduction in a week and also the homeopathy myristica cured one guys tinnitus on abchomeopathy forum

The homeopathy guy i visit,he gives me multiple remedies at a single time,initially when i visited him he told me that tinnitus can only be cured under homeopathy and he said he has cured thousand of cases , initially he himself said that it will take 6weeks time to be cured but later he said it may take more time than that,and when i say doctor well it be 100 cured or not,he always says that if it's not cured i will stop practicing as a doctor as a bet ,he says it's a garuntee that my tinnitus will go ,

And also to tell you guys how amazing doctor he is the first time you visit him,he asks you to open the mouth and show your tongue to him,he looks at the tongue for 15 seconds and then he tells himself start disease you are suffering from, my best friend who has pcos ,when went upto him and open her mouth ,the doctor told her in 5 seconds that she has pcos and pimple problem , i was shocked ,

Homeopathy is a great science neglected by the modern science , no wonder the indian government has offically declared homeopathy as the most imp secondary medicine all over india , and to mention
Maharaj ranjit singh in 1800's was cured of his throat paralysis through homeopathy

 

[coolbeer]

Steve
If u really think its a bottle of water , atleast 1/5th of the indias population who are considering homeopathy as a primary medicine are just getting benifit from a bottle of water , not possible , again ur just going by the claims of the scientific industry , that there is not even a single molecule of the original element left .

If u really think its a bottle of water , and u are 100% sure , then go to a homeopathy chemist and buy a bottle of any homeopathic medicine , it will generally cost u around 10 to 15 $ , and if its really water . then open the bottle and drink the whole solution

And see how adversly it will affect u , and produce so many symptoms in ur body , u will stop beleiving in the fact that its just water , it has to be diluted that much so that it just counters the disease and doesnt cause any ill effects , we indians swear by homeopathy bro , jus open abchomeopathy.com and see millions of people getting relief , an industry of billions of dollars is not scam , 7 out of every indian friend i have is under the treatment of homeopathy for some or the other disease

 

[Markku]

when i say doctor well it be 100 cured or not,he always says that if it's not cured i will stop practicing as a doctor as a bet ,he says it's a garuntee that my tinnitus will go ,

No doubt all of us will be heading to meet this doctor then...

The fact alone that a "doctor" makes such a claim is totally absurd.

If u really think its a bottle of water , and u are 100% sure , then go to a homeopathy chemist and buy a bottle of any homeopathic medicine , it will generally cost u around 10 to 15 $ , and if its really water . then open the bottle and drink the whole solution

And see how adversly it will affect u , and produce so many symptoms in ur body , u will stop beleiving in the fact that its just water , it has to be diluted that much so that it just counters the disease and doesnt cause any ill effects

You can buy me 20 bottles of homeopathic medicine, and I will gladly drink them in one go.

I promise to record a video of it.

I suggest you watch this...



And also this...

http://www.theguardian.com/science/video/2010/feb/05/homeopathy-medicine

 

[coolbeer]

Markku -
He is not alone making that claim , i have been communicating with 6-7 other homeopaths one of them is my family friend , they all give me 100% assurance that they will cure me and it will take 3-4 months , and obviously my family friend wont lie to me , these video tell u just one side of the story , just see about homeopathy once again in detail on google , i will post a few links in a while , which will make u think positive abt it, i am going to this particular doctor just because he has cured all the illness and diseases my family memebers have encounterd in the past 7 years , so i trsut him a lot , he has been a homeopath since 31 years , if it would have been a scam , his clinic could not have been running by now

 

[cullenbohannon]

If someone wants to try homeopathic remedies then i have no problem with that but i don't think its right to talk in absolutes and guarantee results.

The word kali means pottasium , and kali phos is phosphate of pottasium , thus there is no doubt these remedies helps in aleviating tinnitus , because recently it was discussed that tinnitus is due to the pottasium channels in the brain .

Im afraid its not that simple. Many drugs work on potassium channels, but they don't help tinnitus. Its a very specific set of potassium channels that are affected regarding this theory, and a very specific drug is needed to get them working properly.

Desperate people do desperate things. @coolbeer

 

[attheedgeofscience]

he has been a homeopath since 31 years , if it would have been a scam , his clinic could not have been running by now

If he has cured tinnitus - repeatedly - using whatever methods he has at his disposal, he would not only be running a successful clinic, but he would also be a millionaire and have won the Nobel Prize of Medicine.

 

[coolbeer]

@attheedgeofscience he is a millionare and he has been awarded with nobel prices in the medicinal system

See this as proof- the hindu is an indian newspaper - see thishttp://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/health/a-healing-hand/article4469497.ece
http://www.chikitsa.com/doctors-and-therapists-in-delhi/dr-amarjit-singh/570/1/

He has been awarded as
Dr. Yudhvir Singh Award in 1997
Apprecition Award in 2005
Life Time Achievement Award By The Board Of Homeoapthic System Medicine, Delhi in 2005

And dr lal was awarded with nobel price in homeopathic medicine in 2013 along with Life Time Achievement Award By The Board Of Homeoapthic System Medicine, Delhi

 

[cullenbohannon]

@attheedgeofscience he is a millionare and he has been awarded with nobel prices in the medicinal system

See this as proof- the hindu is an indian newspaper - see thishttp://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/health/a-healing-hand/article4469497.ece
http://www.chikitsa.com/doctors-and-therapists-in-delhi/dr-amarjit-singh/570/1/

He has been awarded as
Dr. Yudhvir Singh Award in 1997
Apprecition Award in 2005
Life Time Achievement Award By The Board Of Homeoapthic System Medicine, Delhi in 2005

And dr lal was awarded with nobel price in homeopathic medicine in 2013

None of those are NOBEL Prizes.

 

[attheedgeofscience]

@attheedgeofscience he is a millionare and he has been awarded with nobel prices in the medicinal system

See this as proof- the hindu is an indian newspaper - see thishttp://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/health/a-healing-hand/article4469497.ece
http://www.chikitsa.com/doctors-and-therapists-in-delhi/dr-amarjit-singh/570/1/

He has been awarded as
Dr. Yudhvir Singh Award in 1997
Apprecition Award in 2005
Life Time Achievement Award By The Board Of Homeoapthic System Medicine, Delhi in 2005

And dr lal was awarded with nobel price in homeopathic medicine in 2013

If he is a millionaire, could please explain to me why he does not have a proper website - here is all I could find (via Google):

http://www.chikitsa.com/doctors-and-therapists-in-delhi/dr-lal-singh/569/1/

which lead me to the following website (which I have no clue what is all about):

http://www.amarhomoeohealers.net/

Needless to say, I am (very) skeptical. But I do not want to discourage you or even attempt to "ridicule" you. So this will be my last entry.

Take care.

 

[Steve]

See post 19 in this thread from Erik - a mass homeopathy overdose. Overdose is impossible. I will drink a hundred bottles but I refuse to pay for a single one.

I can't agree with you here, there is absolutely no proof at all that this works. None. Not a single study has ever found that homeopathy works.

Modern medicine has some excellent techniques for running fair studies to test medicines. Homeopathy has failed to perform better than placebo in every single one.

It has been around for over 200 years. In that time it has never been proven to work.

 

[coolbeer]

Haha, no need to get into an argument , i was just keeping my point , its for you to agree or disagree peace brothers , ultimately our motive is the same , we all want to get rid of tinnitus , and if i do get rid of it through homeopathy which am damn sure i will , i am ready to keep my home empty for all of u to come here stay at my place and get treated , love u all guys , i have to get rid of this and just do my best so that it can help u guys too .

 

[cullenbohannon]

I dont think anyone here is trying to argue, but i just think we have to be careful what we present as fact, especially on this forum. Many people suffering come on here and see these things. I hope everything works out for you.

Haha, no need to get into an argument , i was just keeping my point , its for you to agree or disagree peace brothers , ultimately our motive is the same , we all want to get rid of tinnitus , and if i do get rid of it through homeopathy which am damn sure i will , i am ready to keep my home empty for all of u to come here stay at my place and get treated , love u all guys , i have to get rid of this and just do my best so that it can help u guys too .

 

[Marlene]

I'm pushing towards my 70s,I keep an open mind,on everything and I mean everything ,only get one shot at life.
We all got our own views,that's what keeps me to this site,because it's so diverse.The young learn things from the older ones ,and visa versa I'm still learning things even at my age from younger ones on site,can't be bad hey.

 

[Steve]

I don't mean to sound argumentative, apologies if I do. It's one of the subjects that has always annoyed me.

Any product or treatment that can be proven to do nothing, but which has a huge industry around it, disappoints and annoys me.

If anybody can present to me a plausible explanation of how it works I will change my view.

 

[coolbeer]

Apologies from side too if any of my words felt bad ,annoying, or offending to anyone ,and steve i tried my best to explain through watever i could , otherwise if i find somthing that could really change ur mind , give me a few days , i would definately try to make u understand through a good explaination ,
U guys rock , thanks everyone

Smthing nice i found -http://www.naturalnews.com/033558_homeopathy_science.html

http://www.hauserhomeopathy.com/pub/proof-for-homeopathy--beyond-material-thinking.html

 

[Alfredo]

Hi, I'm on homeopathy for around one year. First of all, i still have tinnitus. But I'm here to tell my experience with homeopathy so far. For the first months there was some improvement, then three months was difficult but after that it started. Last six months was good. Tinnitus improved for around 30 to 50% which was great.
Now I've had a bad months because i believe the medicine that I'm on now is wrong.
All i wanted to say is that in my opinion homeopathy works, it's not a magic cure but it can improve the condition. I felt the effect of the cures.
I have tinnitus for 3 years, in first two I tried lots of things and nothing worked, my condition didn't get any better. Then i decided to try homeopathy and my condition improved.
The people i spoke with that tried homeopathy and felt disappointed took the cure for about a month and then stopped because tinnitus did not improved. I think that a realistic goal is one year and then if the condition doesn't improve quit.
Remedies I've taken so far:
1. Lycopodium (ch 30) - 3 a day - 5 weeks - felt some improvment
2. Berberis Kali carbonicum (ch 6) - 3 a day - 6 weeks - disaster
- Lycopodium (ch 30) - 1 * week 5 - 6 weeks
3. Nr.19 - Balance for ears 5m-sr 170 - 3 * 1 a day, 3 to 4 weeks. Eventually Magnesium 400mg, Vitamins b6, b12, Zinc, Ginko. - did nothing.
4. Berberis (ch6) - every morning 3 - 4 weeks - disaster
- Lycopodium (ch30) - afternoon 3 - 4 weeks - disaster
5. Berberis (ch6) - 3 during day - 4 weeks - improved 15%
- Psorinum (ch 200) - 1 * week 5 - 6 weeks
6. Barita carbonica (ch 30) - 3 * a week 3 - 6 weeks - some improvement
- Psorinum (ch30) - 3 in the evening - 4 weeks
7. Barita Carbonica (ch 30) - 3 * times a week for 3 - 6 week - improved another 15 to 35%
- Psorinum (ch 200) - 1 * a week (sunday) 5 - 2 week
8. Lycopodium (ch30) - 5 a week - 5 week - not working.

 

[attheedgeofscience]

Here is a well narrated BBC documentary on homeopathy. It is actually quite interesting to watch - I do like James Randi for his unbiased skepticism (ie. he is not a scientist himself):



The conclusion is self-evident given that the extreme dilution of the homeopathic "potion" means there is no longer any chance of having even a single molecule of the active ingredient left in the so-called remedy...

But - on the other hand - it is surprising how even two well respected scientist came to be believers in the science of homeopathy (after which they saw their "fame" decline a little bit, admittedly...).

 

[coolbeer]

@Alfredo - thanks for sharing ur experience , since you had tinnitus for 2-3 yrs and then u started homeopathy so it is really acceptable it took u 1 yr to get 30-50% improvement , i jjst saw all the medicines u took , many of them are good one but i wished to add my bit ,

If u could try 3-4 medicines which am listing now , it would be awesome , because these medicine has worked for a lot of people on a forum , and is recommended by a lot of doctors and has cured tinnitus of 4-5 people on the forum
1. Belladona 200( one dose , empty stomach , early morning for 4 weeks ) if it fails then ->
2. Myristica sebifera 200( one dose , empty stomach early morning for a month) if fails then->
3. Put one drop of tonic water in 500 ml water which is inside a one litre bottle , so that half the bottle is empty , shake the bottle very vigourisly many times ,and drink one teaspoon of the mixture every morning empty stomach

 

[Alfredo]

Thanks for the tip. I'll will talk with my homeopath about it.
How are you doing? Feel any improvement? How long are you on homeopathy? What results did you get on homeopathic test? mine was i think 11 of 20, which is bad.

 

[attheedgeofscience]

And dr lal was awarded with nobel price in homeopathic medicine in 2013 along with Life Time Achievement Award By The Board Of Homeoapthic System Medicine, Delhi

Coolbeer, I realize I have stated my intention not to pursue the "debate" any further, but, I would appreciate a point of clarification from you - if possible - in regards to the above statement. I am not able to locate any information about a Nobel Prize (price) in homeopathic medicine.

There is a Nobel Prize in the field of medicine and/or physiology - and of course other fields too.

If there is a "Nobel Prize" of some sort for the field you mention, then it cannot be one awarded by the famously established Nobel Committee (because they would never award their prize to homeopathy - as it is essentially fraud; see video I posted above).

Thanks.

 

[Marlene]

Hi Steve,spoke to my aunt,my grandfather was more into Herbalism,most people came to him for that,she thinks my great grandfather passed it on to my grandfather.then my grandfather got into Homeopathy as well.I can recall his garden had lots of different plants,what he used,my grandmother never removed these plants after his death.That explained why the garden was always fenced off some 17 yrs later ,as children we were never allowed in that garden.So what's your view to Herbalist.?

 

[Steve]

Hi Steve,spoke to my aunt,my grandfather was more into Herbalism,most people came to him for that,she thinks my great grandfather passed it on to my grandfather.then my grandfather got into Homeopathy as well.I can recall his garden had lots of different plants,what he used,my grandmother never removed these plants after his death.That explained why the garden was always fenced off some 17 yrs later ,as children we were never allowed in that garden.So what's your view to Herbalist.?

That's a completely different prospect altogether Marlene, there are a great deal of things in nature that can be beneficial - and potentially harmful in certain concentrations (being why you weren't allowed in the garden).

As I mentioned above, fungi are the source for antibiotics. Also things such as aspirin, quinine and morphine (to name a few) come from plants / trees. There are a lot of medicines in existence that can be traced back to nature.

I believe a lot of natural things can help various conditions, properly understood and prescribed of course. You'll find that scientists today are searching mother nature for compounds that can be refined and produced in a lab - then sold to us by big pharma.

But homeopathy is different, magic by a different name; there is no possibility of a single molecule remaining of any substance at the levels of dilution stated. As I mentioned previously, you would have to believe that water has a memory of the substance, which would lead you to believe that it also has a selective memory so that it forgets all of the other millions of things it has had contact with in its ancient past. It's just not possible.

 

[attheedgeofscience]

But homeopathy is different, magic by a different name; there is no possibility of a single molecule remaining of any substance at the levels of dilution stated. As I mentioned previously, you would have to believe that water has a memory of the substance, which would lead you to believe that it also has a selective memory so that it forgets all of the other millions of things it has had contact with in its ancient past. It's just not possible.

I agree. And it also goes against the conventional wisdom of pharmacology which would roughly postulate that the stronger the concentration of the medicine, the stronger a reaction a patient will experience from the medicine (something we all know from everyday experiences with eg. headache pills and so on). Homeopathy is postulating the opposite - ie. the weaker the concentration, the more "benefit" a person will experience.

Still, I am surprised by the endorsement the field of homeopathy has received. The list of celebrities who use - or have used homeopathy - includes people such as: Sir Paul McCartney, David Beckham, Jennifer Aniston, Catherine Zeta Jones, Martin Sheen, Tony Blair, Bill Clinton, Mark Twain, Vincent Van Gogh, Claude Monet and Renoir.

And we should remind ourselves that a person such as Bill Clinton has an IQ of 160, or more (it is estimated). But of course, intelligence is not always correlated with rationality...

 

[Marlene]

Thanks for the reply Steve,glad my aunt was still here to ask,she mentioned few that she could remember like Marshmallow etc.thanks for what you wrote about this topic my aunt don't know what helped that little girl get better was it grandads herbs ? Will never know Steve,back in those days so many child hood diseases,and they couldn't pay a dr back then,my aunt said there was always someone coming to see him for help.Will look all this up see if and what I can learn not thought about any of this till yesterdays thread,only ever been mentioned inside family regarding my granddad,and his book,as to where it went.Hospitals I know are looking now to alternative meds,back to basics.I know beetroot helps lower blood pressure. Thanks Steve

 

[coolbeer]

Am really sorry about the nobel prize , i was really confused between them , actually they have won lifetime acievement award 2007 , yudhvir award 1997 and 1999 , homeoratan award 2013, appreciation award in 2006 and 2007 , dr diwan harish chand award 2012 by board of homeopathic system of medicine , New Delhi goverment , these awards have won by dr lal singh , dr amarjeet singh and dr sanjeev chawala who are son of dr lal singh , some of these awards by each of them , u can check the award types on google and how much appriciation this means

Check these links too http://www.independent.com.mt/articles/2014-07-05/news/alternative-medicine-placebo-or-cure-5665816576

http://dt.bh/bangladesh-fan-unfurls-3-5-km-german-flag-before-world-cup/

http://www.pharmabiz.com/ArticleDetails.aspx?aid=83284&sid=2

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...me-achievement-award/articleshow/35680343.cms

Homeopaths can never recieve so many awards , for just a placebo , all these homeopaths are practicing since 30 years or more , millions of people cannot benifit from placebos , if such would have been the case homeopathy couldn't have survived since 200+ years , so many cancer patients got rid of their cancer with homoepathy , gall stones, kidney stones , all cured , do some case research on google and then u will believe

 

[Steve]

@coolbeer The above are press releases and hearsay. The award is presented by an organisation that have no real meaning. From their website:

• World Medical Council is promoted and controlled by BizTV Network FZE, a company registered in India and owners of the brand 'Marine Biz TV' and 'Medi BizTV'.

If you want to properly defend homeopathy you need to do it with real, hard evidence.

Please tell us why it works, why you believe it does. How does the water retain a memory of the compounds? How can cancer be cured by a compound when it isn't certain what the actual cause is; homeopaths say they have experimented with compounds and cure like with like, were there pioneering homeopaths that gave themselves cancer in order to find the cure? Why do you believe that the more diluted the preparation, the more powerful it is?

We are a scientifically minded community here on the whole, hearsay is not sufficient (lots of people who said they got better is hearsay, business press releases are hearsay). If you want to prove your case then you need to come up with something concrete. In 200 years is there an independent study or proof of homeopathy?

 

[Alfredo]

http://www.homeopatija.hr/images/dokumenti/Posadzki.pdf

 

[Steve]

http://www.homeopatija.hr/images/dokumenti/Posadzki.pdf

That's an interesting study. My reading of it is that some homeopaths have administered in barely diluted forms some serious poisons which have caused harm. Due most likely to the fact that anybody can claim to be one, instead of the rigorous training a medical Doctor must receive.

The report concludes that homeopathy can be dangerous if some of the highly toxic elements used are not properly diluted. A portion of the adverse reactions they recorded were serious illness and death caused by substituting homeopathy for conventional medicine, causing patients unnecessary harm.

It also acknowledges that it is not possible for a single molecule to be present in normal homeopathic dilutions. It doesn't show any faith that homeopathy works though.

In the majority of cases, the possible mechanism of action involved allergic reactions or ingestion of toxic substances. Preparations of heavy metals, such as arsenic, cadmium, mercury or iron, which are frequently used in homeopathy can be toxic, (45) if not highly diluted.

Other poisons regularly employed in homeopathy include aconitum, kerosene or thallium, which also can lead to serious health problems in sufficiently low dilutions.

I don't recall seeing a study before about the beneficial effect that homeopathy could have in lower dilutions - for example will mercury cure a case of brain or nerve damage, like cures like hypothesis? A man in a shed seeing what ill effects a substance produces when they ingest it isn't a proper scientific study of this for me.

But - like cures like is a sound hypothesis when it comes to prevention. See the below for REAL science, properly researched in a laboratory:

How the flu vaccine is made

The injectable flu vaccine contains three different types of flu virus (usually two A types and one B type). For most vaccines, the three strains of the viruses are grown in hens' eggs. The viruses are then killed (deactivated) and purified before being made into the vaccine.

How the flu vaccine protects you

The vaccine stimulates your body's immune system to make antibodies to attack the flu virus.

Antibodies are proteins that recognise and fight-off germs, such as viruses, that have invaded your blood. If you catch the flu virus after you've had the vaccination, your immune system will recognise it and immediately produce antibodies to fight it.