How Does "Centralization" Work?

[grotulon]

And do I have a lower chance of it happening, if the tinnitus is more of a white noise, and very low.

I'm at month 2, and someone told me, at month 3 is when centralization starts to happen, is this true?

 

[fhs]

It happens no matter how small the tinnitus is and even if it's only in one ear.

Nobody really knows when it starts but by month 12 it should have centralized by then. If you hear white noise while in a very quiet room then that's actually quiet normal and you might've had it for years but didn't notice it until now. Almost everyone experiences "tinnitus" when in a soundproof room.

 

[grotulon]

It happens no matter how small the tinnitus is and even if it's only in one ear.

Nobody really knows when it starts but by month 12 it should have centralized by then. If you hear white noise while in a very quiet room then that's actually quiet normal and you might've had it for years but didn't notice it until now. Almost everyone experiences "tinnitus" when in a soundproof room.

Actually I just talked to an audiologist, and he says that centralization isn't a very sound argument, he said that it doesn't mean your tinnitus is permanent, and that there isn't much research into it being actually valid. Interesting..

 

[fhs]

Actually I just talked to an audiologist, and he says that centralization isn't a very sound argument, he said that it doesn't mean your tinnitus is permanent, and that there isn't much research into it being actually valid. Interesting..

Audiologists are known to not keep up with the latest news.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21723924

In this study, we show that when recovery time after acoustic trauma is extended to 8 and 12 weeks, cochlear ablation does not significantly decrease the increased spontaneous activity measured in the inferior colliculus. This result demonstrates for the first time that central hyperactivity that develops after acoustic trauma transitions from an early stage when it is dependent on continued peripheral afferent input to a later stage in which the hyperactivity is intrinsically generated within the central nervous system.

Tinnitus can still persist even when the auditory nerve is cut. It's so well known that cutting the auditory nerve is no longer recommended for fixing tinnitus. What more evidence do you need? There's clearly centralization.

Even in 1981 this was known to happen.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6915835

After surgical removal of acoustic tumours with excision of the auditory nerve in 414 patients, only 40% reported improvement in their tinnitus. Of 68 patients undergoing translabyrinthine eighth nerve section, 60 (80%) had tinnitus preoperatively. Improvement occurred in 45%, while 55% reported the condition to be the same or worse.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0378595512002468

 

[JurgenG]

Does centralization always kicks in?

 

[fhs]

Does centralization always kicks in?

I haven't found any studies that says that it always kicks in. It just seems to be much more likely to have happened as time passes by. By the one year mark tinnitus is considered permanent. Even if conductive hearing caused the issue and is restored a few months to a year later the tinnitus tends to stay. It's also thought that when tinnitus in only one ear sounds like it's coming from both then that's centralization at work.

This is why normal auditory input to the primary auditory cortex in the brain needs to be restored ASAP if there is hearing loss since it could stop this from happening. In fact any constant input in the impacted frequencies might work. A doubt a pill is going to be able to fix this problem.

 

[grotulon]

I haven't found any studies that says that it always kicks in. It just seems to be much more likely to have happened as time passes by. By the one year mark tinnitus is considered permanent. Even if conductive hearing caused the issue and is restored a few months to a year later the tinnitus tends to stay. It's also thought that when tinnitus in only one ear sounds like it's coming from both then that's centralization at work.

This is why normal auditory input to the primary auditory cortex in the brain needs to be restored ASAP if there is hearing loss since it could stop this from happening. In fact any constant input in the impacted frequencies might work. A doubt a pill is going to be able to fix this problem.

There's also this to keep in mind "For most people with unilateral tinnitus, if you try hard enough to hear the tinnitus in the non-affected ear, you'll eventually perceive some very slight tinnitus in that side. This is normal and is entirely driven by the way that our auditory pathways work - they have many points of crossover from ear to ear. The more you listen for it, the more it will seemingly appear. Just FYI."

 

[GregCA]

There's also this to keep in mind "For most people with unilateral tinnitus, if you try hard enough to hear the tinnitus in the non-affected ear, you'll eventually perceive some very slight tinnitus in that side. This is normal and is entirely driven by the way that our auditory pathways work - they have many points of crossover from ear to ear. The more you listen for it, the more it will seemingly appear. Just FYI."

Yup, I think I experience this.

 

[Nikopol]

I haven't found any studies that says that it always kicks in. It just seems to be much more likely to have happened as time passes by. By the one year mark tinnitus is considered permanent.

Its considered permanent only because in most cases if immunity system / body can remove the source of T, it does so within year easily. Hell, ENT docs stil largue if permanent mark is at 1 year or 2 years. There is no real evidence to support that time-frame to be honest. There is no evidence that after one year T is fired in the brain permanently or whatever you may hear.

Honestly, its just a timeframe that doesnt mean anything. Although in vast majority of cases T after 1 year mark persists, there are numerous cases of T leaving way beyond that mark.

I really wouldnt pay much mind to those 3 months / 12 months mark. They are supported by no evidence, its just time-frame that T clinics and insurance companies use to start with white sound treatment in order to ease habituation. They simply dont bother with those below 12 months as there is still good chance that it may leave naturally.

 

[hopeforme]

I know a handful of people who have T.

3 have it in their ear and 1 says in her head. They all have had them for more than 1 year. The one who said she hears it in her head had a bad case of vertigo then the ringing appeared after.

 

[japongus]

Audiologists are known to not keep up with the latest news.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21723924



Tinnitus can still persist even when the auditory nerve is cut. It's so well known that cutting the auditory nerve is no longer recommended for fixing tinnitus. What more evidence do you need? There's clearly centralization.

Even in 1981 this was known to happen.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6915835



http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0378595512002468

I'm calling bs on those studies. For one, the guy saying at 8 weeks tinnitus is suddenly centralized is citing a study saying at 6 weeks it isn't centralized. They're probably just looking at the wrong area of the brain, interpreting MRI results erroneously, cutting the nerve in a different way. For another, cutting the auditory nerve has given bad and good results, depending on who did it. Back in 1981, Pulec was still alive and he was reporting very good results from it, while Jastreboff was just revving up his engine getting ready to go from conference to conference saying tinnitus is all in the brain. It's no longer recommended for tinnitus because this isn't rocket science, it's a fashion industry out of a Fellini movie.

 

[light rain]

O

There's also this to keep in mind "For most people with unilateral tinnitus, if you try hard enough to hear the tinnitus in the non-affected ear, you'll eventually perceive some very slight tinnitus in that side. This is normal and is entirely driven by the way that our auditory pathways work - they have many points of crossover from ear to ear. The more you listen for it, the more it will seemingly appear. Just FYI."

This now has me wondering even more if I ever actually had T in the L ear. It started in the R ear in 2010 with ear pain and significant dizziness. The reg Dr back then thought a virus which needed no treatment. Eventually I "heard" T in the left ear but not as strong.

After the T became aggravated last year and became so loud I honestly have been wondering if I EVER had it in the the L ear. The ENT just sort of laughed and said if I thought I heard it before it was there. Now I am even less sure and maybe thus is what happened because this "new" T seems strictly unilateral (again R ear). Otherwise it is so like loud it is drawing all the attention.

Lynn

 

[PaulBe]

Worth it for @japongus and the Felini movie.

 

[Jason C]

Well I am at the 1 year mark now and T is mostly in my left ear after acoustic trauma.

Even when I plug my ears it's all in the left. I am sure the right is damaged yet hearing tests I conduct myself are symmetrical.

Still havnt had appointment with NHS ENT so I guess they have lost my appointment. Nothing they can do anyway so no point worrying about that.