How Long Before Habituation of Perception Kicks In?

[Dr. Nagler]

And dr Negler say it is only up to us to habituate,

I never said that. What I said is that it is up to us to try.

why he did not habituate this lady

You mean why didn't I assist this mother of two and do everything I could do to facilitate the process of habituation for her so that perhaps would not have ended her life? The answer to that question is ... she never asked. It's as simple and as tragic as that. Rather than keeping an open mind and exploring every reasonable option, she decided instead to abandon her children forever. Would I have been able to help her? I do not know. But in choosing herself over the well-being of her own children, she will never know either.

 

[Geo]

No way that what she had could be filtered out or blocked by any brain.

Poor woman, it saddens me even more as she left two children behind.
For a mother to do that there must be a damn good reason.

I hate how T can be overlooked by people in medicine.. They know how bad in can get in some cases but yet they let somone just rott away .. I believe if someone is in a serious mental state as very bad t.. They should give them an option to live or die it is their life. i would describe myslef as a coward when it comes to taking your own life , for you to go through that stage says a lot on how bad someone is suffering why not put some one down quietly let them die in peace.. But yet they kill themselves and are labeled cowards or she wasnt strong enough.. Dont they put down dogs for every little reason so they wont suffer but yet they let us humans take all the pain.. Not trying to compare dogs with us.. And yet someone on here will debate me on the issue..

 

[RichL]

You have to be the bravest person on earth to decide to take your own life, they are not cowards at all!

I don't think I could ever have the gut's to make that decision no matter how much I was suffering!

 

[RichL]

But in choosing herself over her children, she will never know either.

That's a little simplistic and shallow way to put it @Dr Nagler and not very fair in my view!

 

[valeri]

Rather than keeping an open mind and exploring every reasonable option, she decided to abandon her children forever.

This a very harsh statement.
If you watched the clip you can see that she tried many things over the years, she also traveled to other countries looking for help.
She was completely isolated from her children due to severity of her condition.
What worse could a mother endure than not be there for her children.
I don't think it was her choice!

She only made the decision to end her suffering and I'm sure it wasn't an easy one.

I think it's time to accept the fact that some people have it worse then others, that not every case can be helped (really stupid term when it comes to tinnitus), just like not every cancer patient will survive just because statistics are promising.

 

[Dr. Nagler]

You have to be the bravest person on earth to decide to take your own life

Brave ... or selfish.

 

[Carm]

This a very harsh statement.
If you watched the clip you can see that she tried many things over the years, she also traveled to other countries looking for help.
She was completely isolated from her children due to severity of her condition.
What worse could a mother endure than not be there for her children.
I don't think it was her choice!

She only made the decision to end her suffering and I'm sure it wasn't an easy one.

I think it's time to accept the fact that some people have it worse then others, that not every case can be helped (really stupid term when it comes to tinnitus), just like not every cancer patient will survive just because statistics are promising.

She was selfish.

Would you leave your own children?

It is only a noise. Not cancer. Not terminal.

She didn't suffer from only tinnitus, she suffered from co-morbids such as depression. This is the reason she opted out. She should have tried more. She should have went to specialists. She gave up too easily.

Now her children are without mother.

 

[Geo]

She was selfish.

Would you leave your own children?

It is only a noise. Not cancer. Not terminal.

She didn't suffer from only tinnitus, she suffered from co-morbids such as depression. This is the reason she opted out. She should have tried more. She should have went to specialists. She gave up too easily.

Now her children are without mother.

Wow ...just wow..

 

[RichL]

Brave ... or selfish.

It is one of the saddest things in the world, they obviously cannot see any other way out and unless you have been their you do not have a right to call her selfish, it is brave beyond belief.

If you have watched the whole video you would know that she made the decision with her children's knowledge and by all accounts blessing as well, you should know that the one thing that is worse than suffering is seeing someone you love dearly suffering!

She was selfish.

Would you leave your own children?

It is only a noise. Not cancer. Not terminal.

She didn't suffer from only tinnitus, she suffered from co-morbids such as depression. This is the reason she opted out. She should have tried more. She should have went to specialists. She gave up too easily.

Now her children are without mother.

Obviously you have commented without knowledge of her story!

 

[valeri]

She was selfish.

Would you leave your own children?

It is only a noise. Not cancer. Not terminal.

She didn't suffer from only tinnitus, she suffered from co-morbids such as depression. This is the reason she opted out. She should have tried more. She should have went to specialists. She gave up too easily.

Now her children are without mother.

What @Geo said!

Shame on you for such a heartless, aggressive and ignorant comment.

It's not just a fucking cancer that kills!

Get a reality check!

 

[Geo]

It is only a noise. Not cancer. Not terminal.

And it is people like you that are the reason why there isnt a treatment.. Becaue it is only a "noise".. I feel very offended by your post.. You are very blind...

 

[RichL]

Ditto what @Geo and @valeri have said,

Unfortunately you epitomize a growing trait in this world of a loss of empathy and a real heartless attitude! @Carm

 

[Danny Boy]

She was selfish.

Would you leave your own children?

It is only a noise. Not cancer. Not terminal.

She didn't suffer from only tinnitus, she suffered from co-morbids such as depression. This is the reason she opted out. She should have tried more. She should have went to specialists. She gave up too easily.

Now her children are without mother.

You must have mild tinnitus...If you know what super high pitch tinnitus, with hyperacusis and reactive tinnitus...Then you'll know why death would be a better option than living. But thankfully, with keppra with can get rid of hyperacusis and reactive tinnitus. With trobalt we can reduce tinnitus to acceptable levels. But here's the challenge, try getting these meds, as doctors don't care and they don't care if you die, because they refused you medication. I hope you never have to experience this, but have sympathy for others.

 

[Telis]

I can not believe some of these comments, lost for words, I will leave it at that.

 

[Dr. Nagler]

Somebody here asked why I didn't help this lady. And I responded that since she never asked, I never had the chance.

That her story is a tragedy is a fact beyond debate. But whether it could have been a preventable tragedy is something we do not know. In fact there is a lot about her that we do not know. We only know what we have seen in a brief documentary. And to be honest with you, as far as I can tell from that documentary, she seems like a pretty typical patient in my practice and in the practices of those who like me have chosen to work with patients with severe intrusive tinnitus.

 

[valeri]

My colleague committed suicide few months ago due to years of clinical depression.
My boss (a heartless bitch) said: that's crazy, we all feel bit down from time to time!

Just another WOW....

 

[RichL]

That her story is a tragedy is a fact beyond debate. But whether it is a preventable tragedy is something we do not know. In fact there is a lot about her that we do not know. We only know what we have seen in a brief documentary. And to be honest with you, as far as I can tell from the documentary, she seems like a pretty typical patient in my practice and in the practices of those who like me have chosen to work with patients with severe intrusive tinnitus.

Of course the old magic TRT huh, well we all know were this conversation is headed!

 

[Geo]

Of course the old magic TRT huh, well we all know were this conversation is headed!

Do you really think nagler wants a cure or a treatment .... He would be out of his trt business and the friends he refers people to..

 

[Dr. Nagler]

Of course the old magic TRT huh, well we all know were this conversation is headed!

CBT, TAT, TRT PTM. Sure. There are a number of clinicians who, like me, have devoted themselves to helping people like this lady. The particular approach might vary - but the goal, the facilitation of the habituation of severe intrusive tinnitus, is the same. I would love it if there were a cure - or even a way to lastingly diminish the tinnitus signal. We all would. But right now there isn't. So for now, we are left with habituation. Which happens to be the topic of this thread.

 

[Carm]

Do you really think nagler wants a cure or a treatment .... He would be out of his trt business and the friends he refers people to..

Do you really think @Dr. Nagler is worried about that? He is a medical doctor. He is already a millionaire from his long career and he will not have trouble finding new work if a tinnitus cure is found.

 

[RichL]

He is already a millionaire

So, you know him well huh?

 

[Christian78]

I never said that. What I said is that it is up to us to try.


You mean why didn't I assist this mother of two and do everything I could do to facilitate the process of habituation for her so that perhaps would not have ended her life? The answer to that question is ... she never asked. It's as simple and as tragic as that. Rather than keeping an open mind and exploring every reasonable option, she decided instead to abandon her children forever. Would I have been able to help her? I do not know. But in choosing herself over the well-being of her own children, she will never know either.

ok, sorry then, i tried i made it 2 times, first when it was silent , but it became monster i could not, and when i was on trobalt and it worked and t was 20% i did habituate, but when it went back to 100% and trobalt had no effect i dehabituated, now when is worsen again i can t habituate. it must be my fault or it tinnitus is too strong???


and in video you see she went to psychiatrist, i am sure they would give you TRT and CBT in case as she was, but they just dont mention it, maybe because what would happen if someone say trt or cbt failed to help someone... TRT and CBT specialist would eat that tv station!

it would be shown that TRT and CBT can be fake and it cant help serious cases

 

[Dr. Nagler]

Do you really think @Dr. Nagler is worried about that? He is a medical doctor. He is already a millionaire from his long career and he will not have trouble finding new work if a tinnitus cure is found.

Carm, lots of doctors are millionaires. Lots are not. Have I planned well for my retirement? Yes. But I do not know what made you decide that I am a millionaire. What I do know is that it has nothing to do with the topic of this thread. Thanks for your understanding.

 

[Carm]

Carm, lots of doctors are millionaires. Lots are not. Have I planned well for my retirement? Yes. But I do not know what made you decide that I am a millionaire. What I do know is that it has nothing to do with the topic of this thread. Thanks for your understanding.

You are a surgeon ... or were before retiring.

Surgeons in the United States make $519,000 per year on average.

One has to be bad with money if they aren't millionaires on that salary.

 

[Dr. Nagler]

You are a surgeon ... or were before retiring. Surgeons in the United States make $519,000 per year on average. One has to be bad with money if they aren't millionaires on that salary.

Can't argue with you there. But it still has nothing to do with the topic of this thread!

 

[Carm]

Can't argue with you there. But it still has nothing to do with the topic of this thread!

Yes it had; some members here accuse you of only doing TRT for the money.

But you don't need the money.

Those people need to be made aware of that.

You aren't in it for the money.

 

[Christian78]

And to be fair to you, @Christian78, you're only two years into this. I remember feeling pretty similar to what you're describing when I was 2 years into my increased tinnitus, in 2011 or so.

I don't feel that way much anymore, and I hope and pray that you're able to have a similar change in experience.

My t did not increase just like that, i got ibuprofen and lyrica and i got it up and second was corticosteroid injection and 2 pills against kidney stone + paracetamol, my hearing also went down, it is like i am alergic on meds and doc does not know what to give me any more... maybe are pills maybe not but i am alergic on all it seems, lemon juice, orange juice, i cant eat 70% of food! so please dont say only 2 years, if there was not trobalt i would kill myself, because i would just done it in june, but then i got trobalt and it was ok, and i said ok , thanks God i will be crippled but at least live and wait for some treatment, but then i became like imune on it 75%, and so i fell down.

i habituate 2 times on 1 tinnitus baby, and when i got trobalt, and i dehabituate after baby tinnitus went away and monster came, and when trobalt lost effect, and now i got even worse 3 month ago..... so stop speaking about habituation, low tinnitus is habituatable, worse is not.

 

[Dr. Nagler]

Yes it had; some members here accuse you of only doing TRT for the money.
But you don't need the money.

If I needed the money, I sure as hell wouldn't be doing TRT. I'd sell hearing aids or something like that! Now there's where the money is!

But I'd still really like to get the focus back on the subject of this thread, which is habituation.

 

[Sleaford Mod]

This is me writing in another forum several years ago:

"I certainly have profound suicidal ideations. Now my tinnitus fluctuates between being extremely loud and off the scale.It's just day after day of searing, squealing, hissing madness.Basically, I just don't understand what people are going on about when they use the word 'habituation'. How can one become less aware of sounds that are so loud, incessant, harsh and grating? CBT doesn't impress me either because it deals with cognitive distortions and not the primal emotions of fear,loathing and utter frustration/desperation that are so much a part of one's reaction to tinnitus.Sorry to sound so gloomy. But I see my situation as almost utterly bereft of hope."
"Much as I applaud the courage and tenacity of many of the contributors to this thread, there has to be a place here for people like myself who have struggled with very severe tinnitus for so long and simply do not wish to continue with that struggle any longer.We deserve the option of assisted suicide."

I think that I made this post (in the old RNID forum when I had had tinnitus for about 18 months) and was getting nowhere.

To cut a long story short, several years further down the road, I have now habituated to a point where I find my tinnitus occasionally annoying and distracting. When it is at its peak, I can still sometimes go several hours without noticing it, even if I'm sitting in a relatively silent room.

You may draw whatever conclusions you like after reading this. Maybe you will think. 'Ah, this guy's tinnitus couldn't have been all that loud in the first place'. And that's fair enough. Tinnitus is a subjective experience that makes comparisons difficult. Plus, although my tinnitus is 'reactive' and fluctuates, I don't have accompanying ear pain or hyperacusis.

All I am saying is that I was in a very bad place for a very long time and yet I still got through it. The logic of habituation (that if you decouple the infernal racket from the profoundly aversive reaction it provokes it will slip below the level conscious awareness) has, in the long run, proved to be valid in my case. And I now consider CBT to be one way to facilitate this process.

This may not be any kind of substitute for a cure. But it is way beyond stoic endurance. I'm not merely putting up with tinnitus, or 'coping' with it.

Anyway, perhaps reading what I have written will encourage a few people not to lose hope. That is all I am aiming for.

 

[Dr. Nagler]

Anyway, perhaps reading what I have written will encourage a few people not to lose hope. That is all I am aiming for.

Thank you for your wonderful, timely, and uplifting post.