I Invented a Sound That Knocked Out My Tinnitus

[GregCA]

You have already posted that 22.5 kHz is technically ultrasonic, using the link in your post even Wikipedia says it is.

First, the upper limit for your Tinnitus Mix file is 22.05 kHz, not 22.5. Second I have not stated that 22.05 kHz was ultrasonic, and Wikipedia doesn't say it is either.

What 22.05 kHz is is the lower bound of the ultrasonic range. That means any frequency above that is considered ultrasonic. The Tinnitus Mix doesn't contain any frequency above that, due to the 44.1 kHz sampling rate (by Nyquist-Shannon theorem).

As for the frequency output graph shows it just doesn't stop at 22.05 kHz, yes it is much lower but some higher frequencies get through to Koss headphones.

They do when your signal contains energy at those higher frequencies, which is not the case for the Tinnitus Mix.

48 kHz is a common sampling frequencies too (for example, for DVD sound), and had that been the sampling rate you had used, you'd have been able to encode frequencies up to 24 kHz, which would - according to the frequency response graph you quoted - be able to be reproduced (albeit with significant attenuation) by the headphones. That would have allowed a tiny bit of ultrasonic range to go through, if the playback equipment (computer, mobile, etc) had all the necessary hardware to reproduce it (the DACs, in particular).

There is some sound equipment that samples even higher (96 kHz or 192 kHz).

You also must consider the very short pulses on Tinnitus Mix that act differently than audio waves.

There is no magic with very short pulses. The Tinnitus Mix doesn't magically transcend the laws of physics or math.

 

[R. David Case]

The curve is simply a gain vs frequency curve. It tells you how much attenuation your signal is going to suffer based on its frequency.

It means that if your signal had any energy at, say, 23 kHz, it would be attenuated by a factor of X decibels.

However, if you feed it a signal that maxes out at 22.05 kHz, it is not going to magically create energy above that value.

There is no ultrasound coming out of a 22.05 kHz band signal by definition. The ultrasonic range is defined as the range that starts where humans stop hearing. Reference https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultrasound - "Ultrasound is sound waves with frequencies higher than the upper audible limit of human hearing."

The CD format that your file uses (44.1 kHz sampling) is defined to encode sound up to the limit that humans can hear, which is, by definition, the lower bound of the ultrasonic range. Reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compact_Disc_Digital_Audio#Audio_format - "The audio contained in a CD-DA consists of two-channel signed 16-bit Linear PCM sampled at 44,100 Hz." and "An audio CD can represent frequencies up to 22.05 kHz, the Nyquist frequency of the 44.1 kHz sample rate."

So no, there is no overlap, by the very definition of what ultrasounds are.

Ultrasonics are making it to the headphones. Anything above 20 kHz is ultrasonic. Can't you read the link you posted? Here it is:

 

[GregCA]

Ultrasonics are making it to the headphones. Anything above 20 kHz is ultrasonic. Can't you read the link you posted? Here it is:

View attachment 27275

No need to get snarky.
In your own quote it says "This limit varies from person to person and is approximately 20 kilohertz (20,000 hertz) in healthy young adults." - Emphasis on "approximately", because according to the guys who invented the CD format that you use in the Tinnitus Mix, that limit is 22.05 kHz.

At any rate it's not like something magical happens to sound waves when they cross that threshold. They don't get sudden healing powers. We humans just happen to not be able to hear them. Well, healthy humans that is, because many in here have hearing loss and cannot hear anywhere near that range (myself included).

 

[just1morething]

I know no problem. Medium size.

It looks like only medium and x-large are available. I was cheap and ordered some like new medium black. Would this Tinnitus Mix play on an iPod Classic somehow? I see Apple phased out of the Classic in 2014.

 

[gorzakus]

It looks like only medium and x-large are available. I was cheap and ordered some like new medium black. Would this Tinnitus Mix play on an iPod Classic somehow? I see Apple phased out of the Classic in 2014.

I think it will be no problem to play it on your iPod.

 

[SoundB0und]

I am unfortunately not using Tinnitus Mix anymore. First of all I want to say that it worked well for me and that I don't want this post to deter anybody from using it.

Because I am not using it anymore for the past week, my tinnitus is back to the level it was before. I am trying new things though and so far the results are promising.

Why I quit was because I had twitches all over my body, little muscle contractions, often in the face but other places too. They were visible.

I was afraid they'd become worse and permanent after the tinnitus gets knocked out completely and the brain plasticity gets changed.

Now this should not deter anybody else because this has happened to me many times before, with several(at least 4) supplements. The first time it happened was with Piracetam many years ago.

I was taking a high dose and then the twitches were so bad all over my body that I had trouble typing, more recent times have been milder. Luckily they've subsided every time I have quit the supplements and now the Tinnitus Mix that cause it.

Something's wrong with my neurology and this should be unique to me. I actually noticed the twitches instantly after starting the Tinnitus Mix and they progressed slightly as the tinnitus got better.

I might try it again one day but probably not. The effect was good. Not only on tinnitus but hyperacusis and reactivity as well.

 

[R. David Case]

No need to get snarky.
In your own quote it says "This limit varies from person to person and is approximately 20 kilohertz (20,000 hertz) in healthy young adults." - Emphasis on "approximately", because according to the guys who invented the CD format that you use in the Tinnitus Mix, that limit is 22.05 kHz.

At any rate it's not like something magical happens to sound waves when they cross that threshold. They don't get sudden healing powers. We humans just happen to not be able to hear them. Well, healthy humans that is, because many in here have hearing loss and cannot hear anywhere near that range (myself included).

You should read the testimony letters I have posted, the user does not have to hear and process Tinnitus Mix, as I stated the coils of the headphones also put off ultrasonic magnetic waves that come into play.

 

[just1morething]

I think it will be no problem to play it on your iPod.

Was just wondering if I could bypass Itunes and if it had a repeat? I have some songs on there I purchased years ago. I thought the Classic would be of high quality sound and it is a compact size. I have my normal static in my ears/head again this morning.

 

[GregCA]

You should read the testimony letters I have posted, the user does not have to hear and process Tinnitus Mix, as I stated the coils of the headphones also put off ultrasonic magnetic waves that come into play.

Given how easy it is to forge such testimonies (note that I am not accusing you of doing so), I doubt anybody in their right mind would take a picture attachment on a forum as proof of anything.

Many statements in this whole thread don't make any sense to people who are trained physicist or electrical engineers. I'll admit that they do offer impressive tech-sounding buzzwords, though, and I have no reason to believe that it wouldn't be enough to fool a layman.

 

[gorzakus]

Was just wondering if I could bypass Itunes and if it had a repeat? I have some songs on there I purchased years ago. I thought the Classic would be of high quality sound and it is a compact size. I have my normal static in my ears/head again this morning.

If I remember correctly an iPod you can put on repeat and you can put mp3 's on it without using iTunes.

 

[angang]

What volume are you using it at?

It was 35% for the first days and now it's decreased to 20%. It is audible but not annoying.

 

[angang]

Same as day 5:
Night 6: not enough sleep (6 hours).
Day 6: mid tone: 40 / high tone: 45.
"Mosquito effect" +5% = 10%.

Night 7: again not enough sleep.
Day 7: mid tone: 45 / high tone: 45.
"Mosquito effect" = 10%.

Before the Tinnitus Mix mid tone: 30 / high tone: 20.

I cannot confirm that the increase is related to the Tinnitus Mix.
I can say however that the Tinnitus Mix does not have a beneficial effect on the opposite of the ACRN or the sound from MyNoise.net within the seven first days.

I do not have the courage to continue and I will keep you informed about the post-Tinnitus Mix evolution, hoping that my tinnitus will return to the starting point.

Thank you David for your efforts and best regards.

 

[gorzakus]

Given how easy it is to forge such testimonies (note that I am not accusing you of doing so), I doubt anybody in their right mind would take a picture attachment on a forum as proof of anything.

Many statements in this whole thread don't make any sense to people who are trained physicist or electrical engineers. I'll admit that they do offer impressive tech-sounding buzzwords, though, and I have no reason to believe that it wouldn't be enough to fool a layman.

Maybe when you have time you could read the whole thread, we have gone through all this engineering stuff a few times before, also about the so called fake testimonials that turned up to be real, especially the one about the moderator of the largest tinnitus group on Facebook.

There even was one guy who said the letters were fake because some of them were handwritten. If David was a scammer wouldn't it be easier to just show print screens of letters that were typed?

To summarize, of the ones who tried this Tinnitus Mix as prescribed, meaning listening to it for the three weeks every night, 4 out of 5 had good results including me so that seems more important to me than a discussion over ultrasonic sound waves. It probably has to do with residual inhibition but what works, works.

 

[gorzakus]

Same as day 5:
Night 6: not enough sleep (6 hours).
Day 6: mid tone: 40 / high tone: 45.
"Mosquito effect" +5% = 10%.

Night 7: again not enough sleep.
Day 7: mid tone: 45 / high tone: 45.
"Mosquito effect" = 10%.

Before the Tinnitus Mix mid tone: 30 / high tone: 20.

I cannot confirm that the increase is related to the Tinnitus Mix.
I can say however that the Tinnitus Mix does not have a beneficial effect on the opposite of the ACRN or the sound from MyNoise.net within the seven first days.

I do not have the courage to continue and I will keep you informed about the post-Tinnitus Mix evolution, hoping that my tinnitus will return to the starting point.

Thank you David for your efforts and best regards.

I'm sure you will feel better soon once you get over your anxiety and get better sleep. Thanks for the update!

 

[ajc]

@just1morething did you get the SleepPhones? Do they work well and are they comfortable?

 

[just1morething]

@just1morething did you get the SleepPhones? Do they work well and are they comfortable?

According to Amazon they are in my mailbox. I got home late today and have a long driveway in the country. I will update tomorrow if they have arrived. There has been a lot of snow and drifting here.

This may sound a bit odd but I've been chomping on jawbreakers and I seem more normal. Maybe it has something to do with my jaw muscles or ETD? I did take 10mg diazepam plus 300 or 600 mg gabapentin this morning. Whatever gives relief I guess.

 

[RichL]

You should read the testimony letters I have posted, the user does not have to hear and process Tinnitus Mix, as I stated the coils of the headphones also put off ultrasonic magnetic waves that come into play.

the user does not have to hear and process Tinnitus Mix

Can you elaborate on this statement as you just finished telling me that I may not have been listening to Tinnitus Mix loud enough???

 

[R. David Case]

Given how easy it is to forge such testimonies (note that I am not accusing you of doing so), I doubt anybody in their right mind would take a picture attachment on a forum as proof of anything.

Many statements in this whole thread don't make any sense to people who are trained physicist or electrical engineers. I'll admit that they do offer impressive tech-sounding buzzwords, though, and I have no reason to believe that it wouldn't be enough to fool a layman.

Well you are wrong on every point you are trying to make, you say CD players can't produce sound above 22.05 kHz, please show me on the output graph where the graph line magically stops at 22.05 kHz. You can't because it does not stop there, it goes well beyond even 25 kHz that the Koss are rated at. Ultrasonics are reaching the headphones, just at much lower levels,period.

 

[R. David Case]

Can you elaborate on this statement as you just finished telling me that I may not have been listening to Tinnitus Mix loud enough???

If your wife can barely hear it when she puts on your headphones then it is too low, just turn it up a about 10%.

 

[R. David Case]

Given how easy it is to forge such testimonies (note that I am not accusing you of doing so), I doubt anybody in their right mind would take a picture attachment on a forum as proof of anything.

Many statements in this whole thread don't make any sense to people who are trained physicist or electrical engineers. I'll admit that they do offer impressive tech-sounding buzzwords, though, and I have no reason to believe that it wouldn't be enough to fool a layman.

You are wrong about high frequencies, even if we can't hear them they DO affect us.

 

[R. David Case]

Same as day 5:
Night 6: not enough sleep (6 hours).
Day 6: mid tone: 40 / high tone: 45.
"Mosquito effect" +5% = 10%.

Night 7: again not enough sleep.
Day 7: mid tone: 45 / high tone: 45.
"Mosquito effect" = 10%.

Before the Tinnitus Mix mid tone: 30 / high tone: 20.

I cannot confirm that the increase is related to the Tinnitus Mix.
I can say however that the Tinnitus Mix does not have a beneficial effect on the opposite of the ACRN or the sound from MyNoise.net within the seven first days.

I do not have the courage to continue and I will keep you informed about the post-Tinnitus Mix evolution, hoping that my tinnitus will return to the starting point.

Thank you David for your efforts and best regards.

Thanks for trying it and posting, it only works on average 50% of people that try it, sorry it did not help your condition.

 

[R. David Case]

Maybe when you have time you could read the whole thread, we have gone through all this engineering stuff a few times before, also about the so called fake testimonials that turned up to be real, especially the one about the moderator of the largest tinnitus group on Facebook.

There even was one guy who said the letters were fake because some of them were handwritten. If David was a scammer wouldn't it be easier to just show print screens of letters that were typed?

To summarize, of the ones who tried this Tinnitus Mix as prescribed, meaning listening to it for the three weeks every night, 4 out of 5 had good results including me so that seems more important to me than a discussion over ultrasonic sound waves. It probably has to do with residual inhibition but what works, works.

You are so right, and thanks for your help on this thread!! 4 out of 5 reporting good results is better than many treatments or therapies.

 

[GregCA]

Well you are wrong on every point you are trying to make, you say CD players can't produce sound above 22.05 kHz, please show me on the output graph where the graph line magically stops at 22.05 kHz. You can't because it does not stop there, it goes well beyond even 25 kHz that the Koss are rated at. Ultrasonics are reaching the headphones, just at much lower levels,period.

It looks like you are confused as to what that graph represents. It's a frequency response graph: you apply that to an existing signal to figure out its attenuation when it goes through your device.

It is used to show how faithfully a device can reproduce a signal. They have similar graphs for headphones. There's a good explanation here that I recommend you read https://www.headphone.com/pages/evaluating-headphones

The graph you included for the Sony device shows that it is pretty good at reproducing a signal faithfully, as the attenuation is fairly flat in the whole encoding range (0-22.05 kHz).

 

[Lane]

high frequencies, even if we can't hear them they DO affect us.

I've heard that malls will sometimes target inaudible frequencies at loitering kids to create enough discomfort to the point where they finally leave. Kinda feels like there oughta be a law...

 

[annV]

I've heard that malls will sometimes target inaudible frequencies at loitering kids to create enough discomfort to the point where they finally leave. Kinda feels like there oughta be a law...

Those devices output frequencies that young children and teenagers CAN HEAR (and that's why they make kids not want to stay around because the frequencies are so annoying), but adults can't because they have already lost the ability to hear those high frequencies.

 

[JohnAdams]

Well you are wrong on every point you are trying to make, you say CD players can't produce sound above 22.05 kHz, please show me on the output graph where the graph line magically stops at 22.05 kHz. You can't because it does not stop there, it goes well beyond even 25 kHz that the Koss are rated at. Ultrasonics are reaching the headphones, just at much lower levels,period.

View attachment 27308

That depends on the sampling rate. To reproduce a frequency the sampling rate needs to be at least twice that frequency.

 

[RichL]

If your wife can barely hear it when she puts on your headphones then it is too low, just turn it up a about 10%.

You just said in a previous comment the following:

the user does not have to hear and process Tinnitus Mix

Please elaborate on what exactly is it, on one hand you say I'm not listening to it loud enough then in another comment you state that "the user does not have to hear and process Tinnitus Mix"???

Which one is it, I'd appreciate a little more in depth answer please.

 

[R. David Case]

You just said in a previous comment the following:

Please elaborate on what exactly is it, on one hand you say I'm not listening to it loud enough then in another comment you state that "the user does not have to hear and process Tinnitus Mix"???

Which one is it, I'd appreciate a little more in depth answer please.

You misunderstood me. I have had people with hearing loss get good results, you would think it would not work since they can't hear it but the electromagnetic waves from the headphone coils also come into play, the brain does not have to process the sounds, you should put it at a level high enough that it does not cause pain or discomfort. In the beginning you should start on low volume to get used to the sounds then raise volume to a comfortable level.

 

[JohnAdams]

You misunderstood me. I have had people with hearing loss get good results, you would think it would not work since they can't hear it but the electromagnetic waves from the headphone coils also come into play, the brain does not have to process the sounds, you should put it at a level high enough that it does not cause pain or discomfort. In the beginning you should start on low volume to get used to the sounds then raise volume to a comfortable level.

View attachment 27345

If the action comes from the EMF then why would you use speakers at all? Wouldn't it be more effective to put the signal into a coil and hold it next to your ear? That way you could increase the amplitude without any sound risking more damage to our ears.

 

[GregCA]

If the action comes from the EMF then why would you use speakers at all? Wouldn't it be more effective to put the signal into a coil and hold it next to your ear? That way you could increase the amplitude without any sound risking more damage to our ears.

You mean, like this? http://www.tinnitus.cc/en/therapy-device/how-it-works/index.php