MemberThe fact that this thread is getting so many new articles posted is great news. 10 years ago they were promising hearing loss cures as tomytl mentioned, but they are pretty serious now and although we won't see anything tomorrow, companies have realized its a multi-billion dollar business and I think everyone wants to get in on that bandwagon. I still like all the research that Stanford is doing and how they are sharing the information with everyone. Seems like there will be a lot of different competing companies which may or may not be a good thing. The first to the market will reap most of the rewards so that is a good thing, but I don't think any of the private companies will be collaborating on research which isnt a good thing. Some of the start up companies could go bust if they don't find a cure within their funding means though. I think Novartis has a head start, but it still depends on how successful their treatment is compared to some of the others. Even if they fail, they could easily buy anyone out that is close and this is good news too.
Inner Ear Hair Cell Regeneration — Maybe We Can Know More
- Thread starter Hopeful
- Start date
It is good to read that persons that have been interested in this research for a longer time see an increase.
The fact remains that from the first clinical trial to an actual drug takes 12 years? This is something that will not be rushed. No short-cuts. So the next few years are so important. GenVec/Novartis 2015 plus 12 years.
We read that Sound Pharmaceuticals plans something in Q4 of 2017 for SPI-5557. (Severe to profoundly impaired. But regeneration never the less).
"Anticipate IND filing in Q4 2017". I am not sure what IND means (investigational new drug??), but could it be a start for clinical trials too? So that is 2017 plus 12 years? This is from the internet: "In the United States, it takes an average of 12 years for an experimental drug to travel from the laboratory to your medicine cabinet. That is, if it makes it."
You can speed this up by becoming a participant in a clinical trial. But that is no mean feat. I really need to think hard and be well informed about the risks. Do most clinical trials take place in America? Than I would most likely not be eligible. So does a clinical trial take place in your country/part of the world.
I respect the people that are participants in the GenVec/Novartis trials.
Even if you have profound hearing loss you can loose whatever hearing you still have (in this one ear), but there is also a risk of other complications. I understand that the risks are managed in any way possible, but can not be excluded.
Of course it is a multi million dollar business. More & more loud noises in bigger cities, ever little kid is running with an ipod, you go in bar and there is loud music not to mention clubs that are everywhere and that every kid is going nowadays. You have clubs for 16 years old kids now..
On top of that air pollution that has a correlation with the general health. So people in general are suffering more & more from hearing problems in our society. So yes there is a lot of money in it which means there is hope for us, altough at the beginning it might be expensive.
On top of that air pollution that has a correlation with the general health. So people in general are suffering more & more from hearing problems in our society. So yes there is a lot of money in it which means there is hope for us, altough at the beginning it might be expensive.
Indeed, 10+ years is very realistic. A good example is maybe Auris Medical with their tinnitus formula.
And I am afraid, that marketing, developing pricing models would also take long with a blockbuster drug.
Maybe there will be a difference in a new class of medifine, when they can influence genes instead of filling up the whole body with a
cocktail of drugs.
Anyway, if you are "new" with hearing problems, the situation looks better than every before!
I also can tell you, thaf even 12 years might pass by very quickly and it's also really possible to arrange with the situation (of course, every is differen)
My biggest problem, after some habituation it always changed again to the bad.
But still, I look forward and enjoy to see the advances in research.... we never know...
Maybe a cure in sone degree is possible wirh an off label drug, a drug being developed for another thing.
http://columbiamohearingcenter.com/...mers-disease-drug-may-help-with-hearing-loss/
Another thing might be a fast track FDA approval, there are some cases.... but maybe just for directly live threatening stuff.
And I am afraid, that marketing, developing pricing models would also take long with a blockbuster drug.
Maybe there will be a difference in a new class of medifine, when they can influence genes instead of filling up the whole body with a
cocktail of drugs.
Anyway, if you are "new" with hearing problems, the situation looks better than every before!
I also can tell you, thaf even 12 years might pass by very quickly and it's also really possible to arrange with the situation (of course, every is differen)
My biggest problem, after some habituation it always changed again to the bad.
But still, I look forward and enjoy to see the advances in research.... we never know...
Maybe a cure in sone degree is possible wirh an off label drug, a drug being developed for another thing.
http://columbiamohearingcenter.com/...mers-disease-drug-may-help-with-hearing-loss/
Another thing might be a fast track FDA approval, there are some cases.... but maybe just for directly live threatening stuff.
Do you if that was a pill that they took? I'm guessing it wasnt an injection into the ear if it is a treatment for Alzheimers.
What I don't understand is that with so many people with hearing loss that we do not see more people being vocal about wanting a cure. Go to any of the facebook pages for any of the hearing loss projects or companies and there is little to no interest. Even the hearing articles barely get any comments.
What I don't understand is that with so many people with hearing loss that we do not see more people being vocal about wanting a cure. Go to any of the facebook pages for any of the hearing loss projects or companies and there is little to no interest. Even the hearing articles barely get any comments.
@RB2014 , the study was done on mice.
The paper is from 2013. Abstract: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23312516 and paper: http://www.cell.com/neuron/fulltext/S0896-6273(12)00953-1 The paper appears to be freely available.
I would guess this is something Decibel Therapeutics is working on given that Edge is an author of the paper and a founder of DT.
Ignorance is bliss. Although I could Imagen sound levels not necessary being too high. Adults that know what the consequences are, could have been monitoring.
Having said this..I used to work at a school. I designed a sound level alarm. When sound levels where too high an alarm would flash and the sound level meter would turn down the volume of the speakers. Unfortunately I did not realize it was too easy to turn up the volume again. I should have designed it to shut down the power. (That would have become version 2). One day there was a band that used the PA. Sound levels where extreme. The sound level flashed and flashed "alarm, alarm, alarm...sound level too high!". But the kids were having a wonderful time
.It is difficult to design something like that. If levels are 100 dB it is OK for a while. It can be 100dB in the middle of a hall. When people are close to the speakers.....How do you prevent hearing loss when people are not (made) aware, or think they are immune?
Another factor needs to be taken into account. We all know it is not sound level alone. It is sound level plus amount of time exposed.
Habituated perhaps? I am afraid I will never habituate to my hearing loss, loud tinnitus and hyperacusis. If it is mild it could have been different. A few days ago I saw one of the companies trying to organise funds for hearing loss research through "crowd funding". Perhaps this was a good idea?
"This failed Alzheimer's disease drug, which never made it to the market, has the side effect of causing support cells from the inner ear to become hair cells."
I was flabbergasted when I read this. Amazing that this sort of serendipity happens. Only shows you how complex the processes are in the human body. It is probably not al serendipity. They most likely would have thought about the mechanism of the drug. (Or the other way around. Which existing drug could start this process in the cochlea?). Why else will you find that a drug for Alzheimer causes support cells in the inner ear to become hair cells?
So, yes perhaps this discovery is not forgotten (indeed Decibel therapeutics??).
Look at my avatar. I am already counting down
.Too optimistic? I need to be optimistic. A counterforce for the everyday experiences with the NIHL.
I am glad I found this forum.
cornelius
Member
- Mar 18, 2016
- 72
- Tinnitus Since
- 2002
- Cause of Tinnitus
- several acoustic traumas, always physician denial
RB2014 we are in an a crossing era. What was known to stay irreversible becomes slowly less inexorable. And people around 60-70-80-90 years - which have mostly hearing loss - usually don't use internet with the same fluidity as the youngers. Breakthroughs are sometimes seen as witchcraft too because they often provide solution that were unexpected, therefore lots of people fear and don't go a step further in their researches. Hopefully more and more disabled people will use their keyboards and therefore their voices. I remember in the early 2000's when the first man in the world got a successful two arms transplantation, few years before this project was seen like impossible witchcraft and almost no doctor talked about this risky tranplantation.
Exactly, this is something I ask myself very often. In most if the forums there is almost nothing known and also not really an interest for a cure, what is very strange.
I can tell, hearing loss and all other strange things happens to my ears, tooka big part of my life and I would like to get back to a situation I can enjoy life with some better hearing. Probably a dream, but all research which make big advances encourages me!
I don't expect a 100% cure, I just would like to feel me better again, an not just for a few hours..
Another "mechanism" could be at work here.
You have been following research on the internet judiciously for more than ten years and have read about all the "breakthroughs".
Yet nothing to very little has reached even clinical trials. So when you read about breakthrough number 10 it is not so exciting any more.
I do not see me reach that point any time soon. I can still get enthusiastic about breakthroughs and accidental discoveries (and it still gives me hope). But I can imagine some (and perhaps many) people have reached that point.
It is not only looking on the internet for breakthroughs. I also like to read how Stanford and other universities are slowly progressing.
You have been following research on the internet judiciously for more than ten years and have read about all the "breakthroughs".
Yet nothing to very little has reached even clinical trials. So when you read about breakthrough number 10 it is not so exciting any more.
I do not see me reach that point any time soon. I can still get enthusiastic about breakthroughs and accidental discoveries (and it still gives me hope). But I can imagine some (and perhaps many) people have reached that point.
It is not only looking on the internet for breakthroughs. I also like to read how Stanford and other universities are slowly progressing.
Hair cell research from Nebraska:
http://www.livewellnebraska.com/hea...cle_364064be-96ba-5819-a7b9-9d57af9c266a.html
http://www.livewellnebraska.com/hea...cle_364064be-96ba-5819-a7b9-9d57af9c266a.html
Nick Pyzik
Member
- Nov 16, 2015
- 414
- Tinnitus Since
- 6/23/15
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Listening to in-ear headphones & playing in a band
Any findings on new auditory nerve developmental treatments through your researches tomytl? I haven't been able to find anything but I believe you're an expertise at finding new information about hearing loss online so I figured I'd ask you.
bill 112
Member
Pretty sure Neurotrophin Nt-3 is their proposed answer to this if I'm not mistaken?I also think I read somewhere that after haircells were regenerated new neurons sprouted out and connected to the haircell?Hell all this stuff just goes over my head,it's all too complicated for me to understand.
Nick Pyzik
Member
- Nov 16, 2015
- 414
- Tinnitus Since
- 6/23/15
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Listening to in-ear headphones & playing in a band
Yes, there were a few universities and a pharmaceutical company or two looking into using NT-3 as a treatment for auditory nerve damage. But unfortunately, that would most likely only work if not much time has passed since damage has been realized by the subject. The best route for re-establishing connections in the auditory system for the auditory nerve would be differentiating stem cells into "spiral ganglion neurons" and transplanting them into a location behind the subjects ear like demonstrated by the researchers of Kyoto University and their glial scar auditory nerve transplantation procedure. Dr. Charles M. Liberman stated in an article about noise and the lose of nerve fibers and how in a short period of time, meaning a few months to maybe a year, the neurons associated with those disconnected nerve fibers will retract back into their specific locations of what would be considered the auditory cortex or basically into the limbic system region of the brain.
Yes, it's great to see that regeneration of hair cells allows new neurons to form but really there is no way to tell if you've actually damaged hair cells in your cochlea. It's been stated in a document I read that having too many hair cells would cause complications inside the cochlea. From what I said before though, I'm very positive that you've lost auditory nerve fibers and not hair cells.
bill 112
Member
I'm pretty sure everyone's is caused by nerve fiver loss.I have my theory on why people get T and H and others don't,to be honest when research catches up I won't be surprised if I'm proven right.Basically T and H are the result of peripheral neuropathy,more specifically auditory neuropathy.It some cases the damage is so small no test can pick it up,well let's be honest in all nearly all cases!The peripharel nerves can heal to some degree after trauma,this explains why a lot of people's T and H improve gradually after the initial insult and it's this process the Jastreboff cashes in on with his TRT"miracle"
What are some of the symptoms of peripharel neuropathy?Well
-Exaggerated signals(In our case T)
-Muscle spasms(In our case TTTS)
-Burning pain(H)
-Tingling(H)
-Numbness(H)
-Panic and anxiety(Nearly every new T and H sufferer)
The list and similarities go on and on.
Peripharel neuropathy is usually a degenerative condition,once damage has occurred the nerve no longer can withstand insults like it did before and is more susceptible to damage.This explains why people with T and H can get worse from one noise when people with normal hearing loss don't.
If peripharel neuropathy is not detected in time the pain may become chronic as too many insults have damaged the nerve irreparably.This explains why a lot of people with H experienced intermittent pain in the beginning only to be left with constant pain after noise insults.
I could go on and on but the answer is there in front of everybody in black and white,it's obvious!We all have acoustic neuropathy,haircells have absolutely nothing to do with it!Im always the first to admit I'm wrong when I am,but I HIGHLY doubt I am this time.
What are some of the symptoms of peripharel neuropathy?Well
-Exaggerated signals(In our case T)
-Muscle spasms(In our case TTTS)
-Burning pain(H)
-Tingling(H)
-Numbness(H)
-Panic and anxiety(Nearly every new T and H sufferer)
The list and similarities go on and on.
Peripharel neuropathy is usually a degenerative condition,once damage has occurred the nerve no longer can withstand insults like it did before and is more susceptible to damage.This explains why people with T and H can get worse from one noise when people with normal hearing loss don't.
If peripharel neuropathy is not detected in time the pain may become chronic as too many insults have damaged the nerve irreparably.This explains why a lot of people with H experienced intermittent pain in the beginning only to be left with constant pain after noise insults.
I could go on and on but the answer is there in front of everybody in black and white,it's obvious!We all have acoustic neuropathy,haircells have absolutely nothing to do with it!Im always the first to admit I'm wrong when I am,but I HIGHLY doubt I am this time.
Hi,
no, no specific new findings.
Maybe you find some infos on the page of university of Göttingen
http://www.innerearlab.uni-goettingen.de
they have a great ressource of research
Greets Tom
I wonder if high impulse sounds, that are intense enough to cause NIHL, damage the connections to a greater extend and long time exposure to high sound levels damage haircells to a greater extend. Perhaps haircell death is followed by neuropathy?
Anyway, I feel in most cases it is both. Not only haircells and not only connections.
When you this abstract : ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26891769, it is neuropathy when people can hear everything, but have difficulty understanding.
When your audiogram does show you lost the ability of hearing certain frequencies, perhaps it is both haircell death and neuropathy?
Also could it be something as simple as the severity of NIHL? When it is mild there is no loss of haircells, but loss of connection to a haircell and when it is more severe there is hair cell loss (and this translates to a not so perfect audiogram). When there are is no haircell there can not be a connection.
Why else do we see so many NIHL cochleas of test animals that show haircell death?
Also, so much effort is put into regenerating hair cells. This approach is still investigated. By now (10-20 years and more of research already?) the investigators would have realized that haircell regeneration is not the way to go/start.
What about the following idea?
The first nerve(s) loose their connection with their haircell due to noise. Nothing showes up on the audiogram, but tinnitus, hyperacusis and harder of hearing could already follow the damage of the lost connection(s).
Continue with noise exposure, more connections are broken (still nothing visible on the audiogram). Until the last connection(s) are lost. Now the haircell dies and loss of hearing does show on the audiogram.
Just a thought.
The first nerve(s) loose their connection with their haircell due to noise. Nothing showes up on the audiogram, but tinnitus, hyperacusis and harder of hearing could already follow the damage of the lost connection(s).
Continue with noise exposure, more connections are broken (still nothing visible on the audiogram). Until the last connection(s) are lost. Now the haircell dies and loss of hearing does show on the audiogram.
Just a thought.
Nick Pyzik
Member
- Nov 16, 2015
- 414
- Tinnitus Since
- 6/23/15
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Listening to in-ear headphones & playing in a band
Hey Reinier, I'm not sure why diagrams showing the inside of a test animals' cochlea display atrophy to a majority of their hair cells. But I do know for a fact that those who have developed Tinnitus or what they believe to be a hearing loss from listening to headphones, or after going to a concert, or were introduced to a somewhat loud noise can most likely be associated with loss of auditory nerve fibers. I believe it's the long hours of constant sound waves conducting nuerotransmissions between the hair cells and nerve fibers associated with each other that causes excitotoxicity and the connection between the two are broken. Most likely, when there a rapid explosion of sound, a gun shot close to the ears for example, will cause the hair cells to bend back and forth so quickly that they lose formation and therefore "break" and become damaged.
I have to admit though, and I've been saying this a lot now, we look at the hair cells as what allows us to hear sound clearly, loudly, and in high quality. They aren't though. For example, as sound waves pass through the eardrum and through the other 2 locations of the inner ear and into the cochlea, our brain can only "hear" those sounds by what is "processed" through the auditory nerves attached to those hair cells. The only way our brain can "hear" the high frequency type hair cells in our cochlea is through a moderate amount of in-going nerve fibers to allow a high amount of processing to happen, otherwise the signal is lost in the large amount of emotional information processing going on with all the other auditory nerve/hair cell regions. It seems that the more functioning neurotransmitting nerves (not out-going nerves, they have to be the correct nerves/neurons) you have on each hair cell regions of the cochlea (high, mid, low) the much better you will be able to "hear".
I feel like we should be calling our hearing more, "emotional informational processing".
bill 112
Member
But what confuses me is that haircells are a mechanical part of the ear and the fibres are what send electrical impulses to the ear.T is a signal which would mean it has to come from a fibre as a mechanical part doesn't send signals it just picks them up?After my sound exposure I physically heard zips and electric impulses shooting from ears to my brain before the T started,it all points at nerve fibers in my opinion.
Exactly. My idea too. I just pointed out that this could be the first "phase"of hearing loss. I can easily understand that loss of connection can start tinnitus. Hyperacusis I can not get my head around. I suffer from hyperacusis without the pain. I can understand that loss of connections or even loss of outer hair cells can disrupt the dynamics of our hearing.
And any connection broken is a diminished hearing accuracy.
I can remember I used to be impressed with the accuracy of the human hearing (that is what I experienced anyway). People with healthy hearing can hear unbelievable accurate when exercised. I used to have very accurate hearing. It is not only frequencies. It is reverberation time, phase, intermodulation and much more. And I destroyed this
. Well, someone else destroyed this for me
I still hear these occasionally. I think they are just bursts of tinnitus. Sounds like braking of glass needles.
A logical explanation, or at least one I can understand, is that we experience tinnitus because of lack of cochlea output.
Our brains crank up the gain and we experience uncontrolled neurons.
cornelius
Member
- Mar 18, 2016
- 72
- Tinnitus Since
- 2002
- Cause of Tinnitus
- several acoustic traumas, always physician denial
Until now public studies only reported research on either only nerve cells or only hair cells, unless i missed some studies aiming to target both in a unique delivery ?
About FDA Approval. Maybe a treatment for hearing loss would get fast track?
http://houghear.org/frequently-asked-questions-about-the-fda-drug-approval-process/
http://houghear.org/frequently-asked-questions-about-the-fda-drug-approval-process/
Otonomy's OTO-104 was granted fast track status for Meniere's (http://www.otonomy.com/pipeline/oto-104/) so it certainly seems possible.
When on average it takes 10 years, how long does it take (also on average) for a fast track status? I couldn't find this.
Yes, hopeful when OTO-104 can get this status it is not impossible for other hearing disorder drugs to receive this status I would think.
Should we start a specific thread about that ? It's very interesting. Right now, I don't feel a thing listening to songs that were very special to me a few months ago. Hope it'll get better.
Nick Pyzik
Member
- Nov 16, 2015
- 414
- Tinnitus Since
- 6/23/15
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Listening to in-ear headphones & playing in a band
We could. There is something very important about our hearing that I feel has not be understood yet by any sort of scientist, researcher, or doctor out there in the medical world.
I want to tell you it'll get better but I can't say yes or no. It all depends on what changes your brain continues to go through. If you've always had a passion for music, then you will continue listening to music (not through headphones of course) even if there isn't any emotion or the sound quality is nothing like it was before. I can admit music is nothing like it was before to me. The quality is nothing like before. My life has completely change and I'm consciously experiencing the world in a completely different manner now. Much more logically. But, most importantly, I still love the melodic and rhythmical aspect of music so that's how I "hear" music now. I miss how things were before and I admittedly cry a lot from it, but I'm on a path of discovering the true meaning of how important ones "hearing" is to their brain health. All my motivation is being fueled by the hope that I can once again experience life like I did not to long ago and also help out everyone else who's experiencing the same issue(s) one day in the future.
I am not sure if it is emotion, but today was a crappy day for me. The weird thing is that there is a feeling in my head/brain that I do not recognise and therefore cannot explain. The hyperacusis was average and the tinnitus was average. Yet I would rate today a 3 out of 10. I have had worse days regarding tinnitus and hyperacusis and yet I would rate these days higher.
I too believe there is more going on inside the brain than hearing damage and depression.
Although depression can give you unexplained an weird side effects. I have never been depressed in the past, so don't know much about it.
I too believe there is more going on inside the brain than hearing damage and depression.
Although depression can give you unexplained an weird side effects. I have never been depressed in the past, so don't know much about it.
cornelius
Member
- Mar 18, 2016
- 72
- Tinnitus Since
- 2002
- Cause of Tinnitus
- several acoustic traumas, always physician denial
I believe it is a kind of post traumatic stress disorder which could eventually diminish, without any drugs, but if natural supplements seem to help you continue with them if they are harmless. I say that because I suffered exactly the same. After many months overnight I listened to music again with the same former good feelings though punch, sharpness in what I listen is bad compared to the past. My ears break like glass if I don't take care and my hearing is muffled compared to the past along with difficulties to hear in noise. I was told by all the doctors I was mentally ill when telling the same issues you have currently but years after I finally notice it's themselves who were mentally sick with their deny and ignorance.
If you manage to listen to music again like before though bad quality, you could do music again and listen to it like before concerning feelings. Btw I learned how to produce music and how sound is build after acoustic traumas. But I fear my tinnitus and hearing goes more and more bad with time. And lack of high fidelity with lack of punch makes me sometimes desperate. But since the paradigm in hearing knowledges might change, I hope future therapies will give us back inner ear high fidelity again along with ability to play live with moderate level and listen to headphones, again with moderate level.
I believe your emotional issues are linked to the fact that you felt very accurately the music since you are a musician. A few weeks before my first trauma (loud loudspeaker noise in student event) I often listened to vinyls and felt how punchy and sharp the sound was. And after the trauma when I listened to them, it sounded lofi and for a few months I did no felt anything when listening to music along with a very bad mood. Since then, my hearing became worse because even moderately loud noise causes trauma, we must take care, capitalize what's remaining before a cure exists.
Genetics and noise induced hearing loss
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/04/150416145536.htm#.VxZcqOrBBik.twitter
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/04/150416145536.htm#.VxZcqOrBBik.twitter
Log in or register to get the full forum benefits!
Similar threads
