Inner Ear Hair Cell Regeneration — Maybe We Can Know More

[Reinier]

Because the cell bodies and central projections of these cochlear neurons survive for months to years

Years!! Wouldn't that be wonderful! It could be for people with hidden hearing loss.
But I still don't understand: how do we know if haircells survived? When connections to this haircells are not there any more? You will not get any output from this haircell at all. This is similar to the haircell not being there any more.

After reading the article I understand this is applicable for hidden hearing loss. People with hidden hearing loss show a healthy audiogram but can have tinnitus, hyperacusis and difficulty understanding in noisy environment.
My audiogram is definitely not healthy. Therefore I believe some haircells in my inner ears are not there any more.
My hearing loss is not hidden.
Good news never the less. More insight is always welcome.

 

[Aaron123]

But I still don't understand: how do we know if haircells survived? When connections to this haircells are not there any more? You will not get any output from this haircell at all. This is similar to the haircell not being there any more.

At the moment, they don't know the exact nature and extent of the damage. The presumption is that "normal" auditory thresholds mean there is limited hair cell death. Liberman and co-authors are working on tests of auditory neuropathy. However, even those would likely be unable to differentiate synaptic damage from damage to the auditory nerve itself - unless it is the case that nerve damage always implies synaptic damage. That may be the case. I've discussed some recent work that attempts to get at the specific causes of damage in a different post. This includes tests as well as imaging. https://www.tinnitustalk.com/thread...ybe-we-can-know-more.3131/page-37#post-173453

The most vulnerable part of the chain appears to be the synaptic connection between the hair cell and auditory neuron. In these cases of hidden hearing loss, the hair cell remains functional and the auditory nerve typically does not immediately die. The real question is now how long the intervention window is and if it is closed whether it could somehow be re-opened.

Decibel Therapeutics is definitely worth keeping an eye on as Liberman and Corfas are both founders.

 

[Reinier]

When I read about the healing effect this nt-3 has, it makes me wonder what the next step is. If it works so well for mice, what will be he next step? What needs to be investigated before human trials can be considered?
What is holding them back?
I suppose this is one aspect:
Quote:
Although the success of local NT-3 delivery in regenerating cochlear synapses when administered 24 hrs post exposure is an important proof of concept, many key questions remain, most importantly how long after the insult can neurite extension and synaptogenesis still be elicited.
End quote.

Together with the cochlear endoscopy from Harvard I feel some interesting progress is made.
Amazing what they are able to see on cellular level.
I agree with @Aaron123. Decibel Therapeutics have some clever scientists

 

[RB2014]

http://www.news-medical.net/news/20...ct-to-develop-medicines-for-hearing-loss.aspx

More good news. I really feel like we are starting to make real progress now.

Another one.

http://www.news-medical.net/news/20...e-treatment-for-age-related-hearing-loss.aspx

 

[Ears Hurt]

I have perfect audiograms and very strong OAEs in both ears although I'm going for a DPOAE soon to get even more insight on my hair cells but at the moment it doesn't appear that they are the cause,I can hear upto 16,000hz for crying out loud!

@bill 112 what is the difference between a OAE test and a DPOAE test? I've had one of them and was told I passed but I guess I need to double check which test it was. Also, do you know how to read the test? The testing place didn't explain much about it.

 

[bill 112]

@bill 112 what is the difference between a OAE test and a DPOAE test? I've had one of them and was told I passed but I guess I need to double check which test it was. Also, do you know how to read the test? The testing place didn't explain much about it.

I don't really know how to read them,I think I understand the readings but I could be wrong.

DPOAES are a more accurate version of an OAE,it tests individual rows of hair cells rather than big sections if that makes sense?Simply it's a more accurate test.

 

[Aaron123]

DPOAES are a more accurate version of an OAE,it tests individual rows of hair cells rather than big sections if that makes sense?Simply it's a more accurate test.

Where did you hear/read this?

AFAIK, OAE is the general category and DPOAEs are one type of OAE. Specifically, they differ from Transient Evoked OAEs (TEOAEs) and Sustained-frequency OAEs (SPOAEs). According to this link (http://www.waent.org/archives/2012/Vol5-1/20120210-OAE/OAE-Hearing-Loss-Children.htm) DPOAEs are more frequency specific than TEOAEs, and SPOAEs are more frequency specific than DPOAEs.

One potentially interesting difference in testing is that most places measure OAEs at specific frequencies similar to a pure tone hearing test while others use a "sweep" test that gives a continuous measurement. My guess is few places can do the sweep test, but it would be cool to see narrow drop outs that would be missed with testing at specific frequencies. See here for more info http://www.dizziness-and-balance.com/testing/hearing/OAE.htm
Assuming DPOAEs are tested at a handful of frequencies, it isn't clear how beneficial the greater specificity is.

 

[bill 112]

Where did you hear/read this?

AFAIK, OAE is the general category and DPOAEs are one type of OAE. Specifically, they differ from Transient Evoked OAEs (TEOAEs) and Sustained-frequency OAEs (SPOAEs). According to this link (http://www.waent.org/archives/2012/Vol5-1/20120210-OAE/OAE-Hearing-Loss-Children.htm) DPOAEs are more frequency specific than TEOAEs, and SPOAEs are more frequency specific than DPOAEs.

One difference in testing is that most places measure OAEs at specific frequencies similar to a pure tone hearing test while others use a "sweep" test that gives a continuous measurement. My guess is few places can do the sweep test. See here for more info http://www.dizziness-and-balance.com/testing/hearing/OAE.htm
Assuming DPOAEs are tested at a handful of frequencies, it isn't clear how beneficial the greater specificity is.

It was just a simple explanation given to me by my audiologist.I'm by no means an expert on the subject.

 

[Ears Hurt]

Thank you both for the information.

 

[jdjd09]

http://www.cordblood.com/stem-cell-research/cord-blood-research/hearing-losshearing-loss

http://www.news-medical.net/news/20...ct-to-develop-medicines-for-hearing-loss.aspx

More good news. I really feel like we are starting to make real progress now.

Another one.

http://www.news-medical.net/news/20...e-treatment-for-age-related-hearing-loss.aspx

@RB2014 , thanks for posting this. May I ask when they plan on coming out with the first treatment (the one for NIHL)?

 

[Ears Hurt]

@Aaron123 and @bill 112 I was able to figure out how to get this image of my test attached. It looks like I had the DPOAE Test completed. Bill is this the one your are having completed? Is this good or bad? Just curious if noise trauma is the reason for the tinnitus or was it from the whiplash. Not sure if I'll ever know but I am trying. I know it says pass, but I don't trust doctors anymore. The people on here have more knowledge and intelligence about these topics. If anyone out there can explain this to me, I'd appreciate it.

 

[RB2014]

http://www.cordblood.com/stem-cell-research/cord-blood-research/hearing-losshearing-loss


@RB2014 , thanks for posting this. May I ask when they plan on coming out with the first treatment (the one for NIHL)?

I'm not sure when the first treatments will come out. Given all the new start-ups in this field, I wouldn't be surprised if we really can come out with treatments in the next 10 years or so as they have been saying.

 

[Aaron123]

Is this good or bad?

Given what I have read, it looks fine.
If you want more discussion, you might start a separate thread so we can keep this one on topic about inner ear research.

 

[Leon909]

Not sure if this was posted before. It's another case where stem cell treatment was applied successfully, this time in Texas. The doc injected the stem cell into the patient's inner ear. However, it doesn't say how big the improvement was in terms of db.

http://metro-md.com/a-new-treatment-to-correct-hearing-loss-deafness-through-stem-cell-medicine/

 

[jdjd09]

Not sure if this was posted before. It's another case where stem cell treatment was applied successfully, this time in Texas. The doc injected the stem cell into the patient's inner ear. However, it doesn't say how big the improvement was in terms of db.

http://metro-md.com/a-new-treatment-to-correct-hearing-loss-deafness-through-stem-cell-medicine/

Can they do this with adults anywhere. I desperately want my hearing back.

 

[Leon909]

@jdjd09 don't know. I'm sending them a request asking about their treatment protocol.

 

[bill 112]

@jdjd09 don't know. I'm sending them a request asking about their treatment protocol.

Keep us posted Leon,you see Jd there is hope my friend,don't give up and keep fighting!

 

[jdjd09]

@jdjd09 don't know. I'm sending them a request asking about their treatment protocol.

@Leon909 If you find out, do you mind pming me? I'm desperate...sigh.

 

[Aaron123]

New Genvec patent application (filed Oct 9, 2015) just published (April 14, 2016): http://patents.justia.com/patent/20160102320

No idea whether this is a tweak of CGF166 or something new, but it is evidence that they are continuing their work.

 

[RB2014]

Not sure if this was posted before. It's another case where stem cell treatment was applied successfully, this time in Texas. The doc injected the stem cell into the patient's inner ear. However, it doesn't say how big the improvement was in terms of db.

http://metro-md.com/a-new-treatment-to-correct-hearing-loss-deafness-through-stem-cell-medicine/

The more I read about cases like this it seems like there have already been several if not more than several successful attempts to get back a person's hearing with stem cells or umbilical cord cells . I'm not sure why everyone hasnt jumped on this already. There should be clinics opening up offering these services. Even if you can only gain 20 or 30 percent more hearing it would be worth it for a lot of people. I wonder if its because since it isnt a drug and no one can make money on it, so they are not pursuing these treatments?

jdjd09, I'm with you on being desperate for a cure. Its coming and I think its going to be sooner than we think. I think about the millions of people with hearing loss and I still can't believe we don't have something more than what we have now.

 

[RB2014]

New Genvec patent application (filed Oct 9, 2015) just published (April 14, 2016): http://patents.justia.com/patent/20160102320

No idea whether this is a tweak of CGF166 or something new, but it is evidence that they are continuing their work.

Great find. Not sure what they are doing after reading a bit on Math1 and ATOH1. It could be a tweak or something new, but I know they had an agreement with Novartis where they could continue to do research on hearing loss

 

[Nick Pyzik]

Not sure if this was posted before. It's another case where stem cell treatment was applied successfully, this time in Texas. The doc injected the stem cell into the patient's inner ear. However, it doesn't say how big the improvement was in terms of db.

http://metro-md.com/a-new-treatment-to-correct-hearing-loss-deafness-through-stem-cell-medicine/

"There are two types of these hair follicles. The first amplifies sound deeper into the ear where the second type of hair follicle can receive these amplified sound waves and transmit them to the brain for processing".
*slaps hand to face*

Close, but I don't understand how medically inclined programs get by with posting incorrect information like this. They need to actually learn about how the inner ear to brain connection works before writing something like this out because it only creates a bigger problem. I've seen a lot of "typos" about how the inner ear and connection to the brain actually works and what mechanisms are involved in it.

 

[Nick Pyzik]

When it relates to wings, too.

What we don't know is : ok, the regeneration in birds makes them able to pick sounds well all their life. Would that be also useful for them to understand speech clearly ? (I know birds don't speak our language, but you get the point)
We have people here who pick every possible sound but don't understand speech quite well.

The auditory nerve fibers are what allow us as humans to emotionally process everyday sounds in our brain. Depending on how healthy your auditory nerve is and hidden damage has not partaken yet in your life.

 

[Reinier]

I'm not sure why everyone hasnt jumped on this already. There should be clinics opening up offering these services.

I wonder about that too. Although different clinics are offering stem cell therapy's for hearing loss.
Why is it not a major breakthrough when improvement after stem cell therapy is seen?
In most cases if not all I do not see what the improvement is. I realise anyone can post a pre and post hearing diagram. But still...

I wonder if its because since it isnt a drug and no one can make money on it, so they are not pursuing these treatments?

Did human kind make this world such a rotten place?
Could very well be the case.

How is it possible that something that works is not spread on the internet?
Two persons on this forum posted about their improvement.
Is it because Stanford, Hearing Health Foundation, Action on Hearing Loss and many other reputable scientists continue research? (I don't want to imply that doctors at stem cell clinics are not reputable).
To be honest. I think for me at the moment this is the reason.

To be totally honest (how can you be a little bit honest): I opened a savings account to start saving an amount every month. So if prove is more compelling in a few years time I can go to Bangkok

 

[cornelius]

"There are two types of these hair follicles. The first amplifies sound deeper into the ear where the second type of hair follicle can receive these amplified sound waves and transmit them to the brain for processing".
*slaps hand to face*

Close, but I don't understand how medically inclined programs get by with posting incorrect information like this. They need to actually learn about how the inner ear to brain connection works before writing something like this out because it only creates a bigger problem. I've seen a lot of "typos" about how the inner ear and connection to the brain actually works and what mechanisms are involved in it.

Do you believe it's the journalist who's lacking correct knowledges or scientists who are wrong ?

 

[cornelius]

I wonder about that too. Although different clinics are offering stem cell therapy's for hearing loss.
Why is it not a major breakthrough when improvement after stem cell therapy is seen?
In most cases if not all I do not see what the improvement is. I realise anyone can post a pre and post hearing diagram. But still...

Did human kind make this world such a rotten place?
Could very well be the case.

How is it possible that something that works is not spread on the internet?
Two persons on this forum posted about their improvement.
Is it because Stanford, Hearing Health Foundation, Action on Hearing Loss and many other reputable scientists continue research? (I don't want to imply that doctors at stem cell clinics are not reputable).
To be honest. I think for me at the moment this is the reason.

To be totally honest (how can you be a little bit honest): I opened a savings account to start saving an amount every month. So if prove is more compelling in a few years time I can go to Bangkok

Or much later fully paid by your health insurance if you pretend to have hearing loss induced dementia

 

[RB2014]

So if prove is more compelling in a few years time I can go to Bangkok

I am really not sure what to believe at this point. Clinics in other countries offer these services, but I am just skeptical about flying out of the country to try one of those procedures. I would be more worried about the side effects of injecting any type of stem cell into my body with hopes that it reaches the ear, even though from reading it seems that it has helped some people get some of their hearing back.
I have great faith that the people at the HHF, Stanford and the other research institutions have our best interests in mind though. It would be great to get better information on exactly what is going on though and what works and what doesn't so that people don't have to turn to other countries to try different procedures out.
If for example, umbilical stem cells though iv do get some hearing back, but that it is not allowed by the FDA because there has not been enough testing done, it would be good to know so that people can make their own informed decisions.

 

[Nick Pyzik]

Do you believe it's the journalist who's lacking correct knowledges or scientists who are wrong ?

I'm not sure. Usually the journalist gathers information in from one that conducted such research. I'm assuming it was one of the doctors associated with the treatment that defined how the inner ear and the connection to the brain work. They explained semi-correctly, but I see a lot of researchers holding onto the "hair" cell like it's the only thing needed to emotionally process information through sound or in other words, frequencies.

 

[Reinier]

Or much later fully paid by your health insurance if you pretend to have hearing loss induced dementia

I seriously doubt if health insurance will ever pay for this in the Netherlands. If it is not life threatening you can pay for it yourself or take out extra insurance that costs so much that in the end you will have paid for it yourself anyway. This is also why I already started saving. When in 10 years time something will be available I can have the the money.
I don't know what the situation with health insurers is in other countries.

I am really not sure what to believe at this point.

Exactly the reason why I want more compelling evidence.

I would be more worried about the side effects of injecting any type of stem cell into my body with hopes that it reaches the ear

I asked myself the same question. Stem cells go to areas where there is damage or inflammation. Does this mean that when the damage is not recent it is not recognised any more? Surely after, lets say for arguments sake a year, the inner ear is not inflamed any more?
When you can use your own stem cells I could be convinced there is not a high risk involved. But that is the layman talking.
Reading molecular cell biology for dummies is not enough to make a well informed decision..

I have great faith that the people at the HHF, Stanford and the other research institutions have our best interests in mind though.

Yep same here. That is why I posted earlier I do not understand, that if stem cell therapies work, these scientists are still researching and more importantly have not adjusted there prediction for a possible cure. There approach look robust.
If I can have some relief in the mean time from stem cell therapy or LLLT I still would be very interested. It is not straight forward. That much I am starting to realise.

 

[Nick Pyzik]

I seriously doubt if health insurance will ever pay for this in the Netherlands. If it is not life threatening you can pay for it yourself or take out extra insurance that costs so much that in the end you will have paid for it yourself anyway. This is also why I already started saving. When in 10 years time something will be available I can have the the money.
I don't know what the situation with health insurers is in other countries.

Exactly the reason why I want more compelling evidence.

I asked myself the same question. Stem cells go to areas where there is damage or inflammation. Does this mean that when the damage is not recent it is not recognised any more? Surely after, lets say for arguments sake a year, the inner ear is not inflamed any more?
When you can use your own stem cells I could be convinced there is not a high risk involved. But that is the layman talking.
Reading molecular cell biology for dummies is not enough to make a well informed decision..

Yep same here. That is why I posted earlier I do not understand, that if stem cell therapies work, these scientists are still researching and more importantly have not adjusted there prediction for a possible cure. There approach look robust.
If I can have some relief in the mean time from stem cell therapy or LLLT I still would be very interested. It is not straight forward. That much I am starting to realise.

For best results, the transplantation would have to take place right near the inner ear. Surgically entering the hardest bone in the body and placing the specifically differentiated stem cells into the precise location needed. For example, placing them onto the glial scars created from damages to the auditory nerve fibers of our auditory system. The closer to the injury site, the larger the chance of crucial regeneration or repair to occur.