Haven't had a chance to read this yet, but it looks interesting https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms15046
Inner Ear Hair Cell Regeneration — Maybe We Can Know More
- Thread starter Hopeful
- Start date
Member..."Although a number of studies have explored the potential of supporting cells as precursors for mitotic hair cell regeneration after damage, a limited degree of proliferation of supporting cells and mitotic hair cell regeneration in response to damage was observed in neonatal cochlea only within the first 5 days32,42. However, these studies only examined an Lgr5+ subset of supporting cells (inner border cells, inner pillar cells and third Deiters' cells) using Lgr5CreER".
Does not sound to promising. Hopefully frequency uses another method but to my limited knowledge it sound similar.
I don't think there is anything to be worried about regarding Frequency. This paper was accepted at essentially the same time McLean et al was published. Thus, the discussion in this paper about the limitations of Lgr5+ cells does not include what we know from McLean et al. That paper would seem to render parts of this paper out-of-date.
What is interesting is that this paper (i.e. Xu et al) purports to have discovered new pluripotent progenitors. These cells appear to have the ability to regenerate hair cells in the second postnatal week. More interesting/bizarre, they suggest the "possibility that stem cells for the organ of Corti exist but are not within the organ".
Thanks for the share, the supplemental images are absolutely spectacular. I cannot tell you how many texts I have read that state the ears inability to repair itself, this is famous within otology, and this data now contradicts so much previous work. Hearing disorders that were thought to improve through plasticity or central compensation will need to be looked at again, the church of neuroscience will be ruffled. Maybe tinnitus and hearing loss that do not recover simply represent damage just beyond the recovery limits of the organ.
I have been reading through some of these links and was curious if there has been a general estimate as to when a cure for hearing loss was coming about? Do they feel in 10 years or less at this point?
I'm not sayin cure equals perfect hearing. I'm saying cure equals perfect hearing or close to it within the hearing range audiologist test for. Aka, not frequencies that are super high range.
I'm not sayin cure equals perfect hearing. I'm saying cure equals perfect hearing or close to it within the hearing range audiologist test for. Aka, not frequencies that are super high range.
No one still knows for sure, but I think all bets are on Frequency at this point. They go to clinical trials in the next 12 to 18 months. It looks like it could work for everyone and not just severe to profound people. If all goes well we could see something in the next 5 years. If not you still have Decibel and 10 years for something looks promising. Either could help with T.
I think things have never looked better jd.
from nature article "The potency of this Eya1+ progenitor population in the mammalian cochlea provides a new cellular source with the potential for cochlear repair and regeneration.."
So the strategy could be to develop a molecule to increase the multipotent progenitor pool and do animal testing on whether that would repair damaged hair and spiral nerve fibres??
Most people's hearing loss is in the high frequency range as those hair cells are the most fragile. Lower frequency hair cells are more resilient. Regardless, this treatment should regrow all your damaged/dead hair cells where they once were. This treatment should bring back all the hearing range (20hz - 20,000hz) or whatever your personal hearing range is at its physiological best.
They made that statement back in February? So now it's 9 to 15 months.
Rubenslash
Member
Impossible to say but we could come to some sort of estimate:
I am aware of at least 3 companies that are expected to start clinical trials before the end of 2018. Assuming that one of them will eventually get an approved treatment (which is a significant assumption, obviously), I'd say:
Preclinical - 1,5 years until the end of 2018
Clinical trials - 6 - 13 years on average, hard to predict and really depends on the ability to find enough recruitments etc. The fact that we should see immediate response to the treatment will benefit the duration of the trial. In addition, it's a very local treatment which reduces the risk of unwanted side effects in other parts of the body.
Most optimistic scenario: 7,5 years
Most pessimistic: 14,5 years
It might be possible to participate in a trial which could give you early access.
They said they will start clinical trial within 12 months. It means that they will recruit people before.
I don't know why you talk about a pre-clinical trial since they will start clinical trial before the end of 2018.
Moreover, regrowing hair cells shows results even after one week of treatment.
6-13 years on average for recruitment ? You really think that it is that hard to find hearing loss sufferers in this world ?
For me (optimistic or not) : 5 to 7 years before a treatment if FX trial shows positive results.
Maybe less, I'm not in their labs so it's just what I think after reading their papers and talking a bit with one of their researchers.
And the best is that if someone with tinnitus is involved in this trial, it could be the first tinnitus sufferer cured before the end of 2019 !
Rubenslash
Member
Not for recruitment..In order to pass all the clinical trials (phase 1, 2, 3). And yes it can be hard to find enough volunteers, see the genvec case.
Please educate yourself.
Please educate yourself.
Genvec is not Frequency Therapeutics lmao...
All I want to say is that a tinnitus sufferer can be cured during the first phase of the clinical trial.
If so, for me it's like tinnitus is no longer a problem...
Personally I think we need a much larger sample group to draw anything close to a useable indication on this. It would be good if a, preferably sizeable, Tinnitus group was to be included where hearing loss was measured and established as the most probable reason for the Tinnitus.
Genvec are finding it very difficult to locate adequate trial candidate. It's a b8g problem.
I agree with you man, most of the actual companies are working on hearing loss and not tinnitus.
BUT they know that if we cure hearing loss there is a huge chance to cure tinnitus
I think that most of tinnitus involve accoustic trauma, there are so many stories about people seeking help after going to concert, nightclub...
I guess they did think about what you said and they will work like that for the trial.
Hearing loss represents a big market but tinnitus too.
We shouldn't forget that they (FX and all others researchers) are working in silence since more than 5 years on the subject.
Work in silence, let success make the noise
Artazanasss
Member
- May 8, 2017
- 38
- Tinnitus Since
- 2016/09
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Noise induced hidden hearing loss and acoustic trauma
Could stem cell treatment potencially help people with hidden hearing loss as well help to restore nerve cells along with inner ear hair cells?
Because i'm on the verge of suicide doctors in my country are apsolutely useless if they don't see a significant change in the audiogram they just ignore everything you say and pretend your hearing is normal without even considering giving me hearing aids or any assistive device for that matter.
Even though i can barely hear children voices,it's almost impossible to hear with background noise,music quality is distorted i can hear normal conversations only in very quiet enviroment i lost my job over it i wasted a ton of money by going to different doctors and it's been useless.
I hope stem cell treatment can help me in the future as well as fellow T sufferers also i hope the timeline of 5-10 years is realistic for the Frequency treatment as i can't wait until i can continue my life normally without the burden of hearing loss and tinnitus.
Because i'm on the verge of suicide doctors in my country are apsolutely useless if they don't see a significant change in the audiogram they just ignore everything you say and pretend your hearing is normal without even considering giving me hearing aids or any assistive device for that matter.
Even though i can barely hear children voices,it's almost impossible to hear with background noise,music quality is distorted i can hear normal conversations only in very quiet enviroment i lost my job over it i wasted a ton of money by going to different doctors and it's been useless.
I hope stem cell treatment can help me in the future as well as fellow T sufferers also i hope the timeline of 5-10 years is realistic for the Frequency treatment as i can't wait until i can continue my life normally without the burden of hearing loss and tinnitus.
- Dec 29, 2016
- 14
- Tinnitus Since
- 11/2007
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Acoustic trauma from loud music
I don't think any of these gene therapies or stem cell treatments will be deemed suitable for anyone with T or mild to moderate hearing loss. I can't see how they will be able to regrow the specific hair cells that a person with T or mild loss is missing or has damaged. I believe all these treatments will only be available and useful to give some hearing to a profoundly deaf person who uses a cochlear implant so they maybe get use of a hearing aid instead. I'm 39 with T for 10 years now and I expect it to be with me to the end of my life. I wouldn't be building my hopes up for a cure any time soon.
Rubenslash
Member
I'd recommend to dig deeper into the current research before making such unfounded comments.
- Jun 26, 2014
- 2,264
- Tinnitus Since
- 11/2013
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Drugs barotrauma
And where do your beliefs come from? Pull them out of thin air? At least post a reason, or better yet maybe link us to something to back your opinions, otherwise no one gives a shit what you personally can or cant see happening.
Awesome that St. Jude's got this done! I look forward to the data from people with tinnitus and hearing loss to see what happens to their tinnitus after their full hearing is restored.
Weird that they would post it today. It's over a month old at this point and was posted when it came out:
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/thread...ybe-we-can-know-more.3131/page-80#post-243772
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/thread...ybe-we-can-know-more.3131/page-80#post-243791
- Dec 29, 2016
- 14
- Tinnitus Since
- 11/2007
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Acoustic trauma from loud music
I read all the current research just as much as anyone else here. I'd love a cure to be developed for all of us with these terrible conditions. It'd be great. None of us should have to put up with T, H or hearing loss. The fact is that the hearing loss trials are on profoundly deaf candidates only and if they are successful the treatments won't be immediately approved for everyone. It's completely unknown what these treatments would do to a mildly damaged inner ear or the long term consequences which might emerge for people given these therapies. I only have mild T and mild hearing loss in 1 are. I don't fancy paying someone a fortune to give me a cancerous tumour growing in my ear.
It sounds like the risk is not worth it to you given that you only have mild T and mild HL, but realize that for many in here, the situation is different, as they have to deal with more severe types of T and/or HL. I can think of people with severe T and mild HL who could be interested for example.
- Dec 29, 2016
- 14
- Tinnitus Since
- 11/2007
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Acoustic trauma from loud music
I understand completely that other people have T and HL a lot worse than I do and deeply sympathise with everyone here. We all deserve to enjoy silence and normal hearing again and as soon as possible. There's clearly not enough being done to realise that goal. These treatments only appear to be relevant to people with chronic hearing loss though from what I've read. We must all keep our fingers crossed and hope for the best outcome.
Yes, or a repeatable ips system to mass produce them for each subject. Someone (an impatient patient himself) who attends many of the ear conferences recently told me that a lot of work in the ear is not published, lets hope they are much further along then they are letting on.
I hope that Frequency Therapeutics did just that. They must have been working on these molecules for many years before coming out with there recent publications.
It's how business works, you mustn't tease too much if you really want to succeed.
If you don't want that others companies steal your work, you probably won't share step by step what you're doing.
Next paper end of 2017, and until this moment they are still working hard on it and improving the process.
Let's wait the end of the year then
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