Inner Ear Hair Cell Regeneration — Maybe We Can Know More

[Frédéric]

@Aaron123 : I remember now that this time like @Reinier , I was not able to read the paper you posted (this link still does not work for me). Before posting, I did a search with the entire sentence of the study on this forum and I did not find anything. But one more time I beg your pardon.

 

[RB2014]

I had gradual hearing loss over the years and no T. My hearing got really really bad and still no T. It took 6 months of great anxiety/stress to make the T finally come out. You can have severe hearing loss and no T. I think its interesting the comments you guys posting about the brain adapting slowly over time vs a single incident. For some it could be an explosion, or others anxiety stress. I do think once you have it though, there is no getting rid of it unless you can get perfect hearing again. We are all speculating though.

 

[EatMoTacos]

Otonomy seems the best bet, repairing both synapse damage along with hair cell regeneration. + oto-311 specifically for tinnitus (let's hope it's for chronic as well)

This is what I am questioning now, for those who have had T for so long (+10 years) what happens to the supporting cells do they die off?

Some of these trials I have been reading are for people with severe hearing deafness. How could for example this help with some with high frequency loss above 11kHz?

 

[Paulmanlike]

According to frequency these supporting cells do not die off.

I'm wondering the same my friend, tinnitus since 2008 but no loss showing in a standard audiogram.

 

[Samir]

I'm wondering the same my friend, tinnitus since 2008 but no loss showing in a standard audiogram.

Just curious, what's the highest frequency you can hear?

 

[Samir]

https://anzctr.org.au/Trial/Registration/TrialReview.aspx?id=372587

How did you arrive at this link?

It's interesting because the trail is not showing up on the Australian Clinical Trials website:
https://www.australianclinicaltrials.gov.au/anzctr_feed/form

Despite this:

This is a live search of the Australian New Zealand Clinical Trials Registry (ANZCTR). All clinical trials displayed on this website are sourced from the ANZCTR (link is external) (link is external). This includes all trials with a recruitment site in Australia that are registered on ANZCTR as well as ClinicalTrials.gov.

On ANZCTR website though it does show up:
http://anzctr.org.au/BasicSearch.aspx

The keywords I used:
Frequency Therapeutics
FX-322

Update:
I found out why it is not showing up. By default, the Australian website has a parameter setting that only searches for trials that are "recruiting". This can be changed if you enter the advanced search form.

Here it is:
https://www.australianclinicaltrials.gov.au/anzctr/trial/ACTRN12617000704392

This is interesting... why does it say not yet recruiting?...

 

[Paulmanlike]

Just curious, what's the highest frequency you can hear?

Never tried - will let u know

 

[Samir]

Not regeneration exactly, but relevant to the general topic: a new paper out of Stankovic's lab on auditory neuropathy: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-04899-9?WT.feed_name=subjects_neuroscience

This part seems most promising:

The synapse between the SGN and IHC is the most vulnerable element in the inner ear and can be irreparably lost after transient acoustic trauma, but SGN cell bodies can take decades to die, surviving even following loss of their peripheral axons. This observation is important when considering potential therapeutic approaches to acquired forms of auditory neuropathy. If the failure of lost synapses to regenerate after acoustic trauma can be attributed to impaired neurotrophic signaling in the organ of Corti, viral overexpression of important neurotrophic factors, such as neurotrophin 3, has the potential to successfully regenerate these synapses, as recently shown. In that case, the fact that SGN cell bodies remain alive in the modiolus decades after losing functional connections to sensory cells provides a fascinating avenue for therapeutic innovation.

 

[EatMoTacos]

According to frequency these supporting cells do not die off.

I'm wondering the same my friend, tinnitus since 2008 but no loss showing in a standard audiogram.

I am the same, I had a hearing test back in 2007, showed no loss in the 500 to 8kHz range, did one last month again(July/2017), an looked exactly the same since 2007. My T was in one ear, now it is in both.

Maybe Frequency has something up their sleeve to prove that they can regenerate hair cells with no issues, this still leave with the synapses damage. How can they repair this? If the nerve is damaged how can they reconnect the newly regrown hair cells to the nerve?

 

[Paulmanlike]

I am the same, I had a hearing test back in 2007, showed no loss in the 500 to 8kHz range, did one last month again(July/2017), an looked exactly the same since 2007.

Maybe Frequency has something up their sleeve to prove that they can regenerate hair cells with no issues, this still leave with the synapses damage. How can they repair this? If the nerve is damaged how can they reconnect the newly regrown hair cells to the nerve?

Over to @Aaron123

Otonomy as well as decibal TX are also focuses on synapse repair that is alledgedly easier to do than hair cell regeneration.

 

[grate_biff]

How did you arrive at this link?

Hey, I just copied it from the FTX thread.

This is interesting... why does it say not yet recruiting?...

I think its bc they are not recruiting in a normal fashion for this trial. They are using patients already scheduled for a CI operation at that very hospital on different dates.

 

[EatMoTacos]

Over to @Aaron123

Otonomy as well as decibal TX are also focuses on synapse repair that is alledgedly easier to do than hair cell regeneration.

Then can acoustic trauma damage the synaptic nerve as well? Seems like These two companies have there hands full when it comes to restoration. I feel as though they are able to restore lets say 90% of hearing in a person (almost) back to normal but my fear is that the T as an anomily will remain and the nerves will have to somehow re-route itself to the healthy cells.

 

[tomytl]

Then can acoustic trauma damage the synaptic nerve as well? Seems like These two companies have there hands full when it comes to restoration. I feel as though they are able to restore lets say 90% of hearing in a person (almost) back to normal but my fear is that the T as an anomily will remain and the nerves will have to somehow re-route itself to the healthy cells.

I think, if there is a way to regenerate synpses or hair cells or in other words, if they can enhance hearing I believe T will fade.
I never had T before my sudden hearing loss. After first time sudden hearing loss I had a light one in the left ear, after third insult I have multiple T in both ears.
Hearing was most lowered after first SHL, since then, I didn't lost hearing so much.

But, if I have a cold, if I have problems with alergics, T is boosting like crazy.
As soon the cold is better, T is also better.
So I think, if they really can enhance hearing, T will also behave less dominant.

 

[Paulmanlike]

The synapses are the ones vulnerable to noise damage and it makes sense for o repair the route of the problem it will benefit t

 

[tomytl]

what happend with Affichem?
the results are described promising.
It's also a EU funded project

http://www.affichem.com/hearing-loss

 

[acufenero]

what happend with Affichem?
the results are described promising.
It's also a EU funded project

http://www.affichem.com/hearing-loss

Fella @Jim51042 emailed them a few months ago:

"Thank you for your inquiry into AF243. This drug is a new chemical entity and must undergo toxicology and metabolism testing before it is ready for human testing. This will take at least 18 -24 months."

This is their pipeline (most likely not updated in a long time):

 

[Michael Larsen]

I hope it will be next year they go to the clinic.
Imagine if we could take something orally that could help us.

 

[Flamingo1]

So now that Frequency is working on hair cell regeneration and these other companies are working on synapses /neuron regrowth, maybe in 5 years there could be something on the market? Yes? No?

 

[jeff W]

Please move this if its a double post, but I was not aware of it https://www.actiononhearingloss.org... on Hearing Loss&dm_i=45UF,23X6,14ZO9E,84C7,1

 

[Michael Larsen]

So now that Frequency is working on hair cell regeneration and these other companies are working on synapses /neuron regrowth, maybe in 5 years there could be something on the market? Yes? No?

So now that Frequency is working on hair cell regeneration and these other companies are working on synapses /neuron regrowth, maybe in 5 years there could be something on the market? Yes? No?

I think we know much more in a couple of years

 

[Flamingo1]

I think we know much more in a couple of years

We just have to hang on until then I suppose, and be careful not to worsen our condition. :/

 

[jeff W]

We just have to hang on until then I suppose, and be careful not to worsen our condition. :/

Absolutely, stay safe and damage control is what I always say, but now that there is so much private money involved, if it does not make sense to share trial data, it may not happen, that could possibly mean something will appear to arrive clinic quite suddenly. With the costs to the public pocket one can only imagine the numbers involved for contracts to deliver such services. It will be interesting to see who gets the shareholders favourite in the run up, I think the secrecy of Frequency is what has so many folk roused about their work. They appear to be the dark horse of the group, although I am seeing more and more companies arriving.

 

[Paulmanlike]

So now that Frequency is working on hair cell regeneration and these other companies are working on synapses /neuron regrowth, maybe in 5 years there could be something on the market? Yes? No?

Possibly sooner maybe 3. Whatever it's gonna be very expensive when it first comes out/ rich people have precedence.

 

[Reinier]

I think the secrecy of Frequency is what has so many folk roused about their work.

Understandably I think. They paint a rosy picture without giving all away. I just hope they will deliver

 

[acufenero]

Possibly sooner maybe 3. Whatever it's gonna be very expensive when it first comes out/ rich people have precedence.

5 years is best-case scenario IMHO.

 

[walkthroughwalls]

Understandably I think. They paint a rosy picture without giving all away. I just hope they will deliver

I think so too, and I'm not sure what to believe. On one hand, they could be bluffing a bit to gain attention and funding. On the other hand, the increase in startups and scientific advancements are genuinely promising.

 

[Paulmanlike]

All this talk regarding Frequency, hang on, isn't this Regain trial that is recruiting now about injecting the ear to regenerate hair cells. Maybe they are closer.

 

[Paulmanlike]

Please move this if its a double post, but I was not aware of it https://www.actiononhearingloss.org.uk/community/blogs/our-guest-blog/regain-an-opportunity-to-take-part-in-a-clinical-trial.aspx?utm_campaign=98394_Soundbite July 2017&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Royal National Institute for Deaf People Trading as Action on Hearing Loss&dm_i=45UF,23X6,14ZO9E,84C7,1

This one.

 

[Paulmanlike]

This email has been sent to the team at REGAIN - I will keep you posted with any reply.

Hi,

I am contacting you in regards to your trail. I am a member of www.tinnitustalk.com where great interest is paid to your trial amongst other companies attempting to reverse SHL. Are you able to provide me with full criteria as to share with my community to take part in your trial.

Also, a little off-topic, but do you expect for tinnitus to be lowered or even stopped with this new drug? (I am aware this is for SHL and not tinnitus but wanted to ask your opinion)

Kind regards

Paul

 

[Pleasure_Paulie]

5 years is best-case scenario IMHO.

Exactly. Remember most pharmaceuticals takes 10+ years from compound discovery to a doctor being able to give you his signature on a prescription.