MemberDecibel is far more elusive than Frequency. Frequency has announced exactly what they're working on and what their approach is. Decibel has not.
Inner Ear Hair Cell Regeneration — Maybe We Can Know More
- Thread starter Hopeful
- Start date
- Aug 24, 2014
- 179
- Tinnitus Since
- 07/2009
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Loud Music and being dumb
From what I have been reading. It seems that we are much closer than what we were last time I read on hearing restoration, and this was back in 2007.
I really hope this works.
I really hope this works.
- Apr 15, 2017
- 1,419
- Tinnitus Since
- 2008
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Noise
When I last did my manic research into T in 2008 here was what was available or spoke about
T-gone (snake oil)
LLLT - Dr Wilden
Neuromonics
That was about it.
T-gone (snake oil)
LLLT - Dr Wilden
Neuromonics
That was about it.
Coleoptere
Member
Much is dependent on the FT & Audion trials. If those are a success then we will have something available within a few years I should say. In case the trials are not a success then there will be a long wait I'm afraid. In case of setbacks there will be a delays for years. Like we saw with Genvec who extended the trails into 2019. You can even wonder why the Genvec trials still continue but we have very poor info about the results to judge that.
ManagerI would love to see the face of the doctor when you walk into his office and ask for the drug... and he doesn't even know about its existence!
If the drug works = big money, so don't doubt for a single second that every ENT would know what you're asking forI would love to see the face of the doctor when you walk into his office and ask for the drug... and he doesn't even know about its existence!
That depends, I guess... in some parts of the world, they have never even heard of steroid injections or HBOT for noise trauma treatment.If the drug works = big money, so don't doubt for a single second that every ENT would know what you're asking for
Also, it may be more profitable for them to keep you coming back to them and giving them a good hand shake each time. The big winners would be pharma companies and their investors. Most patients would probably not be able to afford the treatment anyway.
I recall reading about a recent drug release for some skin condition, and it's initial price was around 40,000 USD. These things tend to be very expensive initially.
Right, we should count with many years before such a therapy will be standard for everyone in every place.
I don't want to be pesimistic, all I want is such a treatment somewhen.
It will be tested for years before they seed it all over. Imagine, if there is really a product working preparing,marketing,licensing,protection,registering and and will take years.
I think, this kind of therapy will come along with others, it will be a new class, a new way of how the system have to deal with.. probably there will be centers for regenerative medicine instead of hospitals where you probably can get some other injections for other different degenerative processes in the body..
But that's just fiction nothing else..it's coming mostly completly different.
My greatest fear is that they keep trying to peddle pills. It's a business model that doesn't fit the regenerative medicine requirements.
That may be more profitable for them, but hopefully governments will step in. Hearing loss and tinnitus also cause heavy losses due to disability. Think of all the veterans too. If this gets people off benefits and back to work, that's a strong incentive to provide a cheap and effective cure.
And USD? Was this in the US?
The US health care system is highly privatized and the government is not allowed to negotiate drug prices. It's an exception in the developed world. Chances are that things will be cheaper in Europe, although that won't make a difference for US residents
I feel sort of the same way! *slightly ashamed*That's fine. Let them be the guinea pigs.
It's going to be a new method and I'll probably wait until it's available on a mass scale for a while until I sign up. The tinnitus is bearable right now, so I can wait while any kinks in the system are worked out.
- Apr 15, 2017
- 1,419
- Tinnitus Since
- 2008
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Noise
I will be happy if the trials post positive results with tinnitus, that'll give me the hope I need to wait.
You are correct, in terms of tangible data I would have to stand corrected on that. I spoke with someone in Decibel before, I remember they got very sneery when I mentioned the Genvec trial and this pleased me very much. We perhaps forget that many of those involved with these companies have dreamt of success in this field for decades. Albert Edge would be an excellent example of such dedication.
- Dec 29, 2016
- 14
- Tinnitus Since
- 11/2007
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Acoustic trauma from loud music
It's sad but true. That's why I have T and NIHL. I wish I'd have known better but I didn't even know earplugs for clubs and concerts existed as a commercially available product when I was exposed to insane decibel levels at the clubs I now wish I never set foot in 10 years ago. Some adverts for them at these venues would definitely help. People need to be much better informed about the level of danger at these venues and earplugs should be given out at the door. T could literally become a widespread epidemic from what I observed when I went clubbing. Everyone else around me was doing exactly the same thing (No Earplugs) and just because they don't have T yet doesn't mean they are immune.
I worked in clubs in dublin from 04 - 07. I would imagine it's a big problem for many.
This is regarding the Novartis cgf166 trial from http://www.hearinglossjournal.com/cgf166-latest-news/
The procedure involves going down the ear canal and detaching the tympanic membrane (ear drum) to reach the cochlea. A laser is used to create a hole in the cochlea to deliver the CGF166. Remarkably, it only takes 30 minutes and the patient is sent home the same day.
The results so far are promising. "There have been a couple patients with hearing improvement, so we are definitely encouraged."
Yes, their method of delivery does sound very risky! Perhaps they can eventually use the methods of other researchers who are working on delivery.
- Apr 15, 2017
- 1,419
- Tinnitus Since
- 2008
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Noise
It's a shame no news is coming about tinnitus reduction - that's what most of us want. Peace and quiet.
As many have stated on this forum, repairing the underlying damage may reduce the tinnitus for some, particularly when it's noise induced. I also think that hair cell and synapse regeneration is a lot easier to tackle since you can see the problem, unlike tinnitus.
See how? I agree that you need to see the problem and understand the problem before you can try to tackle it. I just don't know how you would be able to see the hair cells and synapses of the auditory nerve with the current state of technology.
This is basically all that the good old doctors have:
I think they need an upgrade...
Some of you might find this interesting! It's the output from an 7+ week long conference (May 30 - Jul 21, 2017) held at Kavli Institute for Theoretical Physics, University of California, Santa Barbara.
Physics of Hearing: From Neurobiology to Information Theory and Back
https://www.kitp.ucsb.edu/activities/hearing17
Complete list of audio podcasts and video recordings here:
http://online.kitp.ucsb.edu/online/hearing17/
Key topics addressed are:
Physics of Hearing: From Neurobiology to Information Theory and Back
https://www.kitp.ucsb.edu/activities/hearing17
Complete list of audio podcasts and video recordings here:
http://online.kitp.ucsb.edu/online/hearing17/
Key topics addressed are:
- Biophysics and active sensing in the inner ear
- Psychoacoustics and human auditory modeling
- Mathematical structure of natural sounds, auditory cognition, and processing in central brain areas
- Speech comprehension and language development in children
- Mathematical structure of speech and speech-recognition technology
- Compressed sensing and sparse recovery modeling
- Deep neural networks for speech recognition
- Oral communication in songbirds and primates
If they could only cut back a little on the holidays to the French Riviera and the sports car payments, they might be able to afford better equipment!
I think surgeons can inspect/image during an autopsy. Just need to compare people with equal audiograms, perform a treatment on one set and leave a control group untreated. Then do a follow up audiogram along with a post mortem dissection and imaging of the cochlea of both the control and treated group. Sure you'd have to wait until people died but with enough treatments and time we'd eventually know.
I just want to say that I've brought up cochlear hair cell regeneration to a lot of people. Real life, Reddit, emails, etc. I was surprised to find out even Biology PhDs studying the inner ear had no clue about cochlear hair cell regeneration. Most had not even heard of these companies like GenVec, Frequency, Decibel, Audion, Acousia, etc. They couldn't even fathom that companies were in and or planning to enter clinical trials.
The point is... We've had a lot of pessimists and naysayers. Including those with PhDs in neuroscience. After talking with Inner Ear Biology PhDs who had no clue hair cell regeneration was a thing I can safely say that we should not be dissuaded by naysayers. Especially ones that aren't researching the seemingly niche and advanced topic which is inner ear hair cell regeneration.
I used to get really down when people (including doctors, researchers, educated) would down play regenerating inner ear haircells. But now... If their name isn't on the masthead of Frequency, Decibel, GenVec, Acousia, Audion then I'm dismissing their opinion. Because I've talked to and had discussions with guys in Frequency and they have the utmost confidence that this could really happen. Will McClean has been saying this for years. I'm taking the word of Ivy League top class researchers that are in this field (and topic) rather than someone studying some other field like neuroscience.
Tl;DR don't be delusional but don't let the naysayers and people saying "inner ear hair cell regeneration isn't possible" get you down. What do they know that Frequency doesn't?
The point is... We've had a lot of pessimists and naysayers. Including those with PhDs in neuroscience. After talking with Inner Ear Biology PhDs who had no clue hair cell regeneration was a thing I can safely say that we should not be dissuaded by naysayers. Especially ones that aren't researching the seemingly niche and advanced topic which is inner ear hair cell regeneration.
I used to get really down when people (including doctors, researchers, educated) would down play regenerating inner ear haircells. But now... If their name isn't on the masthead of Frequency, Decibel, GenVec, Acousia, Audion then I'm dismissing their opinion. Because I've talked to and had discussions with guys in Frequency and they have the utmost confidence that this could really happen. Will McClean has been saying this for years. I'm taking the word of Ivy League top class researchers that are in this field (and topic) rather than someone studying some other field like neuroscience.
Tl;DR don't be delusional but don't let the naysayers and people saying "inner ear hair cell regeneration isn't possible" get you down. What do they know that Frequency doesn't?
I meant that the cause of tinnitus, as opposed to NIHL, is not well defined. With tinnitus, what are you going to fix?!
RonnieCarzatto
Member
- Feb 19, 2017
- 268
- Tinnitus Since
- Feb 01 2017
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Mild head injury maybe... but who knows...
@NatureHiker Man I sincerely hope you're correct
Well hopefully if the theory proves true, the dead hair cells. Hopefully. Not like there's an imaging diagnostic available at the moment. One can dream...
Well hopefully if the theory proves true, the dead hair cells. Hopefully. Not like there's an imaging diagnostic available at the moment. One can dream...
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