An ex vivo cochlea is a better place to start for sure. But you still need to test for systemic effects. But I agree it would be better to start with expanded tissues or cell cultures first and often that's how it is done.
Inner Ear Hair Cell Regeneration — Maybe We Can Know More
- Thread starter Hopeful
- Start date
MemberI know right!?
I've added the audiogram of my tinnitus ear. When I went to see the ENT, I first saw an ENT in training who prescribed an extended audiogram. The results are quite obvious. When she went to consult with the head of the ENT department (a professor doctor nonetheless),the response of the prof was that it's useless to do an extended audiogram, because there's no literature on it's relation to tinnitus. Just another example of how much your average ENT cares about tinnitus..
Attachments
- Jan 5, 2020
- 90
- Tinnitus Since
- 2011, Spike 2019, Spike 2020
- Cause of Tinnitus
- 1e Loud Music, 2e earwax irrigation, 3e padel tennis
Oh wow! That is crazy. I had a similar encounter yesterday. I planned to remove my earwax. This time not my usual ENT (who is really good and understanding) removed it, but a different one. We discussed tinnitus briefly. I told him my hearing looks fairly normal on a 8kHz audiogram. He then immediately starting talking that tinnitus can also arise from other things than noise trauma. He didn't even consider that the higher frequencies needs to be tested or can be the cause of it.
Nonetheless, my audiogram looks similar to yours until the 8kHz. I planned my extended audiogram to see how my hearing is from 8kHz to 20kHz. Let's see.
- Jan 5, 2020
- 90
- Tinnitus Since
- 2011, Spike 2019, Spike 2020
- Cause of Tinnitus
- 1e Loud Music, 2e earwax irrigation, 3e padel tennis
And many who would regret volunteering afterwards. Even drugs that have gone through animal testing can cause horrible side effects, ranging from losing limbs to developing rate auto immune diseases. Take for example trobalt, which led to people turning blue, getting VS,... and this was a drug that webt through all the trials. There is a reason pharma pays big bucks for people participating to drug trials.
Turning blue might be a bit of an exaggeration, but there are multiple reports of people having skin discoloration and retinal pigment abnormalities. To be honest if that would have been the only side effect and it would cure my tinnitus, I would have been running around like Papa Smurf by now
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Not to mention maybe even make their tinnitus worse. Not a chance in hell I will try it unless they've got sound science backing it before.
- Mar 16, 2017
- 102
- Tinnitus Since
- 10/15 got worse 11/16
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Earbuds, inner ear infection NHL and high frequency loss
- Jan 5, 2020
- 90
- Tinnitus Since
- 2011, Spike 2019, Spike 2020
- Cause of Tinnitus
- 1e Loud Music, 2e earwax irrigation, 3e padel tennis
- Jan 5, 2020
- 90
- Tinnitus Since
- 2011, Spike 2019, Spike 2020
- Cause of Tinnitus
- 1e Loud Music, 2e earwax irrigation, 3e padel tennis
- Sep 21, 2016
- 1,051
- Tinnitus Since
- 2011 - T, 2016- H, relapsed 2019
- Cause of Tinnitus
- noise-induced
https://journalotohns.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s40463-020-00432-7
Brain-derived nerve growth factor in the cochlea - a reproducibility study
Brain-derived nerve growth factor in the cochlea - a reproducibility study
Conclusion
Our original finding that Intracochlear BDNF can improve hearing in guinea pigs was confirmed, but the improvement demonstrated by the methods in this paper is too small for clinical application.
So then this means the outlook for OTO-413 is not very good. Maybe they better should have tested how this BNDF affects tinnitus & hyperacusis.
The study also says:
"Perhaps multiple applications, a different dose or other method would show more response. We plan to pursue a multiple dose regimen in future work."
Another interesting point is that they saw hearing improvement in the entire range of hearing.
Besides, isn't OTO-413 for hidden hearing loss instead of sensorineural hearing loss?
When this BNDF gives enough hearing improvement to quieten noise induced tinnitus to some extent then this should definitely be further investigated. If this works across the whole frequency range, this would be even better. Since FX-322 so far as I understood works only in the high frequencies.
I don't see how exchanging normal hearing for a cochlear implant can be good news.
That's because the effect is more or less the same; more/restoration of auditory input.
- Apr 6, 2020
- 1,031
- Tinnitus Since
- 2016
- Cause of Tinnitus
- 2016: headphones, 2020: worsened thanks to Rammstein
Perhaps hope on the horizon for those who have a lack of supporting cells in damaged areas of the cochlea, hopefully even for those with flat epithelia (profound hearing loss):
Title:
Microenvironment Can Induce Development of Auditory Progenitor Cells from Human Gingival Mesenchymal Stem Cells
''Here, we report the potential of GMSCs (gingival mesenchymal stem cells) to differentiate into auditory progenitor cells while supporting them with an optimized three-dimensional scaffold and certain growth factors (......) Our in vitro and in vivo studies confirmed the auditory differentiation potential of GMSCs within the engineered microenvironment''
Link: https://pubs.acs.org/doi/pdf/10.1021/acsbiomaterials.9b01795
Title:
Microenvironment Can Induce Development of Auditory Progenitor Cells from Human Gingival Mesenchymal Stem Cells
''Here, we report the potential of GMSCs (gingival mesenchymal stem cells) to differentiate into auditory progenitor cells while supporting them with an optimized three-dimensional scaffold and certain growth factors (......) Our in vitro and in vivo studies confirmed the auditory differentiation potential of GMSCs within the engineered microenvironment''
Link: https://pubs.acs.org/doi/pdf/10.1021/acsbiomaterials.9b01795
The researcher I spoke to thought it was a solvable problem for even those with flat epithelial but her time line (15-20 years) was discouraging
.- Sep 21, 2016
- 1,051
- Tinnitus Since
- 2011 - T, 2016- H, relapsed 2019
- Cause of Tinnitus
- noise-induced
- Apr 6, 2020
- 1,031
- Tinnitus Since
- 2016
- Cause of Tinnitus
- 2016: headphones, 2020: worsened thanks to Rammstein
@FGG I don't think the time line is set in stone. And with the plans to reduce bureaucratic procedures at the FDA, it may help speed up the process for you and other tinnitus sufferers.The researcher I spoke to thought it was a solvable problem for even those with flat epithelial but her time line (15-20 years) was discouraging
I just came across this paper:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1672293018300242
In some animals they can have up to 80% inner hair cell loss or 40% outer hair cell loss without anything showing up on an audiogram. So seems like there is room for improvement even if one has a normal audiogram.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1672293018300242
In some animals they can have up to 80% inner hair cell loss or 40% outer hair cell loss without anything showing up on an audiogram. So seems like there is room for improvement even if one has a normal audiogram.
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