Kinetic in Poland Claim They Reduce Tinnitus

[Erik9810]

So if I understand this correctly, the theory is... if you lost your hearing suddenly (say at a Rock Concert) your nervous system cannot adapt and you get T. So these guys give you a hearing aid that amps up the frequencies you lost and then over several months gradually reduces the amplification until you get back to your original level of hearing loss. The hypothesis being if your hearing loss comes on gradually your nervous system can adapt and you don't get T.

For this hypothesis to be correct, then it seems to me that your T must be able to be stopped after a few weeks/months with a regular (no white noise) hearing aid. Right? So they get you to a point where there is no T and then gradually bring you back to your natural state without retriggering it?

Sounds good. Certainly my T was the result of a sudden loss, so that fits. BUT... I haven't seen any evidence that hearing aids without white noise can stop T. I would want to see that evidence before I could believe in this approach.

I'm not sure if the process is as simple as can be obtained by wearing a hearing aid, I think the underlying reson in many cases are a hearing loss in the higher frequencies which they seem to pinpoint by implementing extended hearing tests up to 20KHZ. The idea of tinnitus bring triggered by the inability to adapt to a sudden loss of hearing seems to be supported by several other parties. For example, a Swedish study concerning the origin and heterogenity of tinnitus recently compared the symptom to that of phantom pain. This supports the reasoning behind the apparent approach by Kinetic, what also strikes me as positive is the fact that they seem to be among the chosen few who has defined several T subgroups to maximize efficiency in treatment. The Swedish study further argued for the imminent need of subgroups in treatment for clinical efficiency in treatment since their seems to be some substantial treatments available as of today but for specific types of the condition.

I believe that Charles Liebermann of Decibel Therapeutics also speaks of the synaptic connections being the issues in many cases (or all?) much alike Kinetic?

It seems that they have also established a clinic in China. From what I've read it seems that they are in the process of establishing their treatments and diagnostics across Europe, Asia and Dubai specifically.

http://kinetic-cna.pl/pl/placowka-w-chinach

 

[Stakovic]

USA didn't find a cure yet.Poland find it . Hhhhh is that a joke ?

 

[Erik9810]

USA didn't find a cure yet.Poland find it . Hhhhh is that a joke ?

That is probably one of the stupidest things I've ever heard, are you for real? Every fifth person in Poland suffers from chronic tinnitus, facilitating a huge need for treatment. I guess the fact that the EU themselves support their research is just a bunch of bs? Haha.

 

[Sander]

@Sander did you get these results from only an audio type device?
For how long did you have T before you started this treatment and how long after you started did you get results?

I have tinnitus since june 2016 (small explosion in workplace ). I started treatment in November. First results? I would say that after 4-5 weeks. And since then almost every 1-2 week continous improvement. However... I had recently very stressful time and my tinnitus increased and thought it can ruin my therapy. Fortunately it passed away quickly.

By now I'm not hearing any T in left ear. In right ear still a litlle (I thing that something about 60-70% reduction). I was told that my therapy is going to end in 1-2 months.

@Rings-a-Bell I think you are right. I was told in Kinetic that hearing loss (and tinnitus) in high frequencies also can be cured to some point by hearing aids working in high frequencies and it is often complementary to their therapy. I think @RaZaH that Sebotek has such hearing aids but their website aren't working right now...

 

[RaZaH]

@Sander Do you mean improvement when you take the device off or when wearing it ?
Is it a sound that is played into your ears ?

 

[Samir]

I don't know what to make of this. But it seems to be some kind of technology for diagnosing tinnitus, and also treating it with some form of sound therapy. It's developed in Poland and its commercialization will be financed by EU. The project runs from 2017-02-01 to 2017-05-31.

http://cordis.europa.eu/project/rcn/207962_en.html

The key market application of Tinnitus Diagnostic Platform is to differentiate the pathology of hearing and finally to select appropriate treatment.

Synaptic adaptation Arc therapy is based on continuous acoustic stimulation which enforces activity of hear cells and nervous system and gives opportunity to release Arc/Arg 3.1 protein that rebuild synapses.

Finally, to fully exploit and to commercialize this new and EU-based technology, we want to open new Advanced Audiology Clinics around Europe to propose complex methods on hearing pathologies.

What are your thoughts on this?

I like that part where it says "EU-based technology". I thought technological innovations had to be based on scientific principles, not on who is funding it or where it is developed. Either way, I hope they bring something new to this field.

 

[Aaron123]

This post should probably be part of the thread on Kinetic: https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/kinetic-in-poland-claim-they-reduce-tinnitus.16237/

 

[Bidyut saha]

 

[Erik9810]

https://www.isrctn.com/ISRCTN18341063

The study ended in December and the EU-project started in February. Indicating positive results hopefully?

 

[Mentos]

https://www.isrctn.com/ISRCTN18341063

The study ended in December and the EU-project started in February. Indicating positive results hopefully?

Supposedly helps some people; I use it since October '16, unfortunately I see no improvement in my T. It does something to my T but it's rather opposite to what I would expect. The effect I observed is when I use ARC my T increases in volume, and it goes down to the baseline around 30min after I switch it off. Hope they can fine-tune the treatment in the future so that it really improves the T for me.

 

[Marlino]

@Mentos
So you were using it but not part of the study, right?

Did they test you on the following exclusion criteria?: In audiogram, the patient manifests a dead zone of the inner ear (destroyed external and internal hair cells)
If yes, how?

One more question: do you still go for electrical stimulation?

 

[Mentos]

@Mentos
So you were using it but not part of the study, right?

Did they test you on the following exclusion criteria?: In audiogram, the patient manifests a dead zone of the inner ear (destroyed external and internal hair cells)
If yes, how?

One more question: do you still go for electrical stimulation?

Yes I'm using it but I don't know if they include my case in their study or not. They testem my hearing on an audiogram both standard and also high frequency (8-20kHz). Basen on that they qualified me for the treatment. As per electrical stimulation I did magnetic stimulation instead, no Improvement in my T. I will probably try electrostimulations in the 2nd hałf of a year

 

[Marlino]

Yes I'm using it but I don't know if they include my case in their study or not

Hmmm, probably not since the study is private company funded and you didn't respond to it

 

[Ambassador]

Yes I'm using it but I don't know if they include my case in their study or not. They testem my hearing on an audiogram both standard and also high frequency (8-20kHz). Basen on that they qualified me for the treatment. As per electrical stimulation I did magnetic stimulation instead, no Improvement in my T. I will probably try electrostimulations in the 2nd hałf of a year

You did rTMS? In the US it's still considered experimental, they are still working out the treatment protocol and it's not ready for mainstream at the moment. Things like placement of the magnet and number of pulses and intensity all need to be documented and measured. I have seen a rTMS provider who uses it successfuly for depression and anxiety with good results but he won't consider me until the treatment protocol is finalized. I'm hoping in the next year or two. The Veterans Administration is supposed to be working on it for veterans. It's pretty expensive.

 

[Mentos]

You did rTMS? In the US it's still considered experimental, they are still working out the treatment protocol and it's not ready for mainstream at the moment. Things like placement of the magnet and number of pulses and intensity all need to be documented and measured. I have seen a rTMS provider who uses it successfuly for depression and anxiety with good results but he won't consider me until the treatment protocol is finalized. I'm hoping in the next year or two. The Veterans Administration is supposed to be working on it for veterans. It's pretty expensive.

It was not rTMS, they did direct magnetic stimulation of the ear, while rTMS is about stimulation through the skull. But indeed in Poland there are clinics that already do rTMS to treat tinnitus.

 

[Ambassador]

How's the rate of success, here with the trials it seems to be about a 50/50 chance of getting some relief. From what I read and have been told they are still determining the best treatment protocol. Hope for a chance to try it soon.

 

[Frédéric]

I saw this while searching for clinical trials :
http://kinetic-cna.pl/web/pageFiles/fixed/14/_tinnitus-arc-treatment.pdf
http://kinetic-cna.pl/web/pageFiles... with tinnitus lasting for two years.2015.pdf

 

[Ambassador]

Is it real, anyone using it with success?

 

[Rune B]

this sounds interesting, I want to try this. Anyone else been in touch with them or tried it?

 

[Rune B]

this sounds interesting, I want to try this. Anyone else been in touch with them or tried it?

Ok - I've sent them a email today about starting treatment

 

[Paulmanlike]

Interesting, I was speculating the other day that maybe people with sudden hearing loss (through noise) get tinnitus as people don't have enough time to adjust, whereas maybe long acting hearing loss, people can not get tinnitus.

 

[DoNotGoGentle]

Interesting, I was speculating the other day that maybe people with sudden hearing loss (through noise) get tinnitus as people don't have enough time to adjust, whereas maybe long acting hearing loss, people can not get tinnitus.

Noise and anything that causes sudden hearing loss.

 

[Paulmanlike]

If it was written in English or even the Polish version was not riddled with grammar mistakes, it might have some credibility.

 

[Snake]

Hi,

Can ARC therapy from Kinetic clinic make our Tinnitus worse than before?

I'm trying this new kind of therapy but everytime after few days I feel that my T got worse. After a week I try again, and again after few days my Tinnitus is worse than before.

When I give my ears rest from the therapy, they come back to normal T as usual.

I'm scared about this and I need your help, should I try this full time (8 hours a day with 15 minutes shifts) or avoid? You need to use it with in ear headphones so I'm scared about doing some stupid thing and make my T worse forever.

 

[Vincent R]

Can ARC therapy from Kinetic clinic make our Tinnitus worse than before?

If your T gets worse, stop using the therapy at once.

In-ear headphones are more risky to the ear than any other device that delievers sound, and extensive use increases the risk as well.

The clinic is pedding flat-out lies on its homepage:

Proper diet and physical activity already contribute to significant reduction of your tinnitus by strong correlations between diet and physical activity and the concentration of BDNF neurotrophins protein in the nervous system ( BDNF reduce hyperactive synapses state by closing to much calcium channels at synapses of Calyx of Held ) .​

http://kinetic-cna.pl/en/clinical-diagnostics-and-tinnitus-reduction

They can't be trusted.

 

[Vincent R]

Oboy, this is some serious hogwash Look at their FAQ:

Why your technologies of tinnitus reduction aren't available in other clinics?

There is a lot of laryngologists in the world, the number of audiologists is fewer, and audiologists familiar with the nervous system (also known as neurobiologists) are almost nonexistent. In order to work on tinnitus treatment you must have specialized knowledge in neurobiology. We provide 3-hour-long diagnostics and consultation session. It's much longer than a typical medical appointment. Other medical centers can't devote that much time for one patient; therefore, the consultation isn't thorough, diagnostics and selection of treatment technology isn't precise. Specialists' approach towards tinnitus itself is another factor. Almost always when one of technologies doesn't bring noticeable effects, the blame lies with a specialist, his bad approach, lack of specialized knowledge in matching and recognizing activity of the nervous system. Being a specialist is not enough! At the same time, you really need to be a devoted fan of audiology and neurobiology to continue your personal development in order to get better and help others. In Poland, neurobiology as a field of study has been present for 4 years now, so it's safe to say there's still a lack professionals and appropriate approach. We don't want to risk lowering effectiveness of our therapies by making them available for unqualified specialists with doubtful diagnostic methods. By contrast, in our clinics we control the work of our specialists and their knowledge. We are certain that in near future we will be able to organize training courses and training sessions regarding our technologies and making them available for other companies around the world.

http://kinetic-cna.pl/en/clinical-diagnostics-and-tinnitus-reduction

 

[Mentos]

If your T gets worse, stop using the therapy at once.

In-ear headphones are more risky to the ear than any other device that delievers sound, and extensive use increases the risk as well.

The clinic is pedding flat-out lies on its homepage:

Proper diet and physical activity already contribute to significant reduction of your tinnitus by strong correlations between diet and physical activity and the concentration of BDNF neurotrophins protein in the nervous system ( BDNF reduce hyperactive synapses state by closing to much calcium channels at synapses of Calyx of Held ) .​

http://kinetic-cna.pl/en/clinical-diagnostics-and-tinnitus-reduction

They can't be trusted.

Hi, I'm from Poland and I was using ARC for some time. What I can say there are a lot of negative reviews on their therapy on Polish Tinnitus forums, so I would be very cautious with using them. I could find literally no single story of improvement, including me. I also was experiencing worsening of T after using ARC for some hours that's why I gave it up. Unfortunately ARC from Kinetic is not the answer we were looking for.

 

[Mentos]

Hi, I'm from Poland and I was using ARC for some time. What I can say there are a lot of negative reviews on their therapy on Polish Tinnitus forums, so I would be very cautious with using them. I could find literally no single story of improvement, including me. I also was experiencing worsening of T after using ARC for some hours that's why I gave it up. Unfortunately ARC from Kinetic is not the answer we were looking for.

Moreover the therapy is quite unpleasant, you have to listening to high pitched intermittent signal for 7-8h a day, for me it was not possible to function with this sound and work or watching TV

 

[Fabrikat]

Hi @Mentos. Are you still considering doing the electrical stimulation therapy in September?

 

[Mentos]

Hi @Mentos. Are you still considering doing the electrical stimulation therapy in September?

Unfortunately I was not qualified for the treatment by the doctor because I hear my T in my head and not ears. According to her this disqualifies me from the treatment. I'm planning to do HBOT instead.