Lack of Hearing Protection Awareness/Knowledge — Son Went Clay Pigeon Shooting

[glynis]

My son went clay pigeon shooting in the day with my hubby and other son and friends as part of his stag weekend.

All they were given were foam plugs and not even shown how to use them correctly...makes me mad as they said they provide the hearing protection and it was their first time going.

You can see the yellow plug in his ear.

Shame when you see the man with proper protection around his neck...

 

[Mellow7]

Before showing how to use, aim and reload the rifle, he should indeed inform on the proper use of plugs. I think a lot of people are confused as to how to plug them properly. It took me some time as well, but a man in his position should surely be able to inform his customers when he offers them these types of activities. I hope none of them had any lasting effects from the shooting range.

 

[Ed209]

That's shocking Glynis. The local club that my cousins husband uses give you proper muffs. Those yellow foam plugs aren't that great either. They are like a cheap hard type of foam.

What was your sons opinion?

 

[glynis]

He was not bothered as does not have tinnitus or my hubby but my other son whom had his ear bones out age 7 ..
That man could give people tinnitus and I was shocked.

 

[Ed209]

In fact, if that was me I'd take the instructors muffs and hand him the earplugs. If he complained, then you know they are knowingly putting people's hearing at risk, for sake of saving a few quid. It defies belief and further proves how badly misinformed the general public are.

 

[glynis]

I would have done the same and given him a full blown mouthful about tinnitus and proper protection.
Maybe he has tinnitus and comes on here..that would be WOW caught on camera....lol

 

[Mystery Reader]

Stunned that the shooting range would put anyone at risk in that way. Those plugs look okay for "every day sounds," but not that!

 

[Jcb]

@glynis This is ridiculous, especially as he is wearing full blown ear protection and gives out flimsy ear plugs to the participants. Anything to save a few pennies, not thinking about other people's health and safety.


ps he has some long luscious locks....

 

[Luman]

A pair of 3M foam earplugs, when properly used, can provide 30 db of protection. How much better protection do the muffs provide? I think I'd use both, just to be safe.

 

[Ed209]

A pair of 3M foam earplugs, when properly used, can provide 30 db of protection. How much better protection do the muffs provide? I think I'd use both, just to be safe.

They obviously don't care if they are correctly inserted though judging from the picture which is negligence on their part. The muffs are fool proof and that's the biggest difference. I tend to think the soft foam plugs fit much better as well in terms of the seal achieved. The 3m ones never feel as snug to me but I have no scientific basis for this. It appears to me that they have just chosen the absolute cheapest plugs they can get their hands on looking at the bottom line. I doubt their customers' hearing is much of a concern judging from this decision.

 

[Samir]

Well... maybe the idea is that they are exposed to it much more than the average visitor who may only do this type of thing once in ten years or less than that. It's still not a good reason not to provide proper protection. Especially since as @Ed209 pointed out, it is so much easier to properly use the ear muffs without any training. Even the cheapest ear muffs are better than these ear plugs. The pads on many ear muffs can be replaced, so purely from hygienic and economical perspective they are a much better option.

 

[Ed209]

Well... maybe the idea is that they are exposed to it much more than the average visitor who may only do this type of thing once in ten years or less than that. It's still not a good reason not to provide proper protection. Especially since as @Ed209 pointed out, it is so much easier to properly use the ear muffs without any training. Even the cheapest ear muffs are better than these ear plugs. The pads on many ear muffs can be replaced, so purely from hygienic and economical perspective they are a much better option.

You're right Samir. It's the same logic when you take a helicopter flight; all the staff are wearing muffs and the customers get nothing. This is whilst you wait on the landing pad with about 6 helicopters going at the same time. So, from their perspective they're looking at exposure times, and obviously, the staff are there all day, 5 times a week, 40+ weeks a year.

I was the only one wearing ear protection. I'd add that once you were in the helicopter you got a Bose noise cancelling headset.

 

[Samir]

@Ed209 sounds like a lot of fun! But also very noisy. Good thing you came prepared! Seems to me like we should all have one of those compact, foldable ear muffs in a pocket, just in case.

For people that work in noisy environments there are even special noise dosimeters that may be used to ensure that they are not exposed to noise for too long periods. It's like the Geiger counter for sound.

It's similar when you go to see a dentist and you have to do an x-ray. The dentist always steps out of the room to press the x-ray button just outside . Not that they could not have placed the button on the inside. It's that they do these so often, usually several x-rays a day, so they would get exposed to too much radiation over the course of one year. As patients we only get exposed once in a year, if we go regularly to the dentist that is.

 

[Tex]

I don't think you folks should blame the range operator. It is not up to the them to offer any hearing protection. I've been active in the firearm sports all my life, much less now than in years past, but I've fired about a bazillion rounds over the past almost 60 years. It is up to me to take what I need to protect myself. Actually, I've never seen a range offer anything. We all take our own.

 

[zeroday]

I'm a shooter and I use foam ear plugs AND complete over the ear protection...

 

[JurgenG]

I don't think you folks should blame the range operator. It is not up to the them to offer any hearing protection. I've been active in the firearm sports all my life, much less now than in years past, but I've fired about a bazillion rounds over the past almost 60 years. It is up to me to take what I need to protect myself. Actually, I've never seen a range offer anything. We all take our own.

It is up the instructor, he should be aware of the potential dangers of what they are doing, and is responsible for the health and safety of their public in my opinion.

 

[Ed209]

I don't think you folks should blame the range operator. It is not up to the them to offer any hearing protection. I've been active in the firearm sports all my life, much less now than in years past, but I've fired about a bazillion rounds over the past almost 60 years. It is up to me to take what I need to protect myself. Actually, I've never seen a range offer anything. We all take our own.

In my opinion, it is absolutely up to them, because the general public are woefully uninformed about ear problems. As a business they should be protecting the health of their customers. If they are aware of the damage gunfire can do to ones hearing (which they should) then they should make it their business to pass this information on and actively participate in making it happen.

It's a bit like a go kart track saying 'off you go' without giving you a helmet to wear. After-all, the customers know they might crash and get a brain injury. It's still the responsibility of the track to provide the helmet. Just my opinion.

 

[Jake007]

Bose noise cancelling headset.

How well does this work? Is it the same as normal muffs?

 

[Ed209]

How well does this work? Is it the same as normal muffs?

Worked really well on the helicopter. Pretty much eliminated the background hum.

They are active noise cancelling headphones - rather than passive - so they pick up the noise using a microphone and then process an anti wave which phases out (or cancels) the noise before it reaches your ear.

 

[Jake007]

Worked really well on the helicopter. Pretty much eliminated the background hum.

They are active noise cancelling headphones - rather than passive - so they pick up the noise using a microphone and then process an anti wave which phases out (or cancels) the noise before it reaches your ear.

How would it do against a chainsaw you think?

 

[Ed209]

How would it do against a chainsaw you think?

Not sure. Maybe someone else with real world experience of noise cancelling headphones could chip in?

 

[Jiri]

Yes, that's clearly the instructors fault. I have been to a shooting range before and a lot of people there didn't really seem to have an idea how to protect their ears.

Unfortunatelly, impulse noise has not been nearly as well studied as steady state sound so there isn't really any rule of thumb as to how much protection is needed. If it sounds too loud it probably is.

If your son and husband like to go clay pigeon shooting they might find helpful the "Practical recommendations for shooters and hunters using hearing protection devices in impulse noise." I'll attach the .pdf file to this post.

 

[JurgenG]

.

Unfortunatelly, impulse noise has not been nearly as well studied as steady state sound so there isn't really any rule of thumb as to how much protection is needed. If it sounds too loud it probably is.
.

That's not really true though, for me a car passing by might sound too loud, doesn't mean it is too loud.

 

[Ed209]

That's not really true though, for me a car passing by might sound too loud, doesn't mean it is too loud.

Too true Jurgen. What we think, and reality, are two very different things. Separating the two is part of the problem for a lot of conditions; not just tinnitus and hyperacusis.

 

[Alue]

That's not really true though, for me a car passing by might sound too loud, doesn't mean it is too loud.

A car passing by isn't really impulse noise. Impulse noise is more like firecrackers and gunshots.

Sound pressure cannot be measured in an instant, so there is always going to be some averaging being done. Most inexpensive sound meters average over a 1s sample time window. For sounds lasting tens of milliseconds this will lose a lot in averaging if you are using a slow time window.

 

[Ed209]

A car passing by isn't really impulse noise. Impulse noise is more like firecrackers and gunshots.

Sound pressure cannot be measured in an instant, so there is always going to be some averaging being done. Most inexpensive sound meters average over a 1s sample time window. For sounds lasting tens of milliseconds this will lose a lot in averaging if you are using a slow time window.

You're absolutely spot on. Although, I'm pretty sure Jurgen realises that a passing car isn't really an impulse noise.

 

[Tamara]

It's placed, as the picture shown, completely wrong. The protector of the type that the instructor has around his neck should be used, or double hearing protection. If the protector is from 3M, I've already seen that they teach the correct way to put them in the ear.You have to twist it to the max and insert it. Only this type of protection does not fit this activity.

 

[Jiri]

That's not really true though, for me a car passing by might sound too loud, doesn't mean it is too loud.

I was just referencing this site in terms of differences between impulse noise and steady state sound: http://earplugstore.typepad.com/got...dy-state-sound-vs-impulse-gunshot-noises.html

I think the author explained it well.