Lenire — Bimodal Stimulation Treatment by Neuromod

[PeteJ]

For all who are talking about Lenire's exclusion criteria. I think the decision of if someone is eligibile for the treatment will be quite personalized. No strict patterns.

I think factors such as age also matter, because I suppose that "regenerating" an organism or an "older" brain by neuroplasticity will be more difficult than it is with a younger brain. I guess so?

At least that's what my GP and several ENTs told to me. I know that most of them are useless but I guess the "young body heals better" statement applies to any field of medicine or any wound.

I wonder if it's more likely that younger people will have less serious hearing loss and/or likely to have mild tinnitus opposed to severe (partly based on your speculation)?

 

[lucy_snow]

Hello,

Just a quick update on the Lenire User Experience Group survey.

• We have now had 127 requests for membership, with 31 providing dates for Neuromod appointments (almost all within the 2019 calendar year).
• We have fired off eight user experience survey links to members who have advised early appointments, and have received five responses to the first part of the survey (baseline information on tinnitus just prior to the Device Fitting stage).
• Another seven links will be sent in the next week or so.

Thanks very much for the members' help in this project!

If you are purchasing a Lenire device soon and haven't yet signed-up we would be very grateful if you could do so, as the results will be very useful to the wider tinnitus community.

Also, if you have signed up but have not provided dates if these are available, please send them through (you can send a PM or respond to the email I sent on this subject).

PeterPan

And also would be great if questions about the degree of the hearing loss and the cause of the tinnitus would also be included

 

[RichardGuy]

It looks like this Lenire device is for people with mild tinnitus and mild hearing loss. For tinnitus that will improve even without treatment. For all of us with severe tinnitus there is no chance.

Thank you Neuromod for the treatment you can't give to the people that need it most. At least some of us will get it later off label.

Uh, no?

Both cases in the trials of people with greater than >90 THI saw improvement. It just won't be much help if you can't hear at all.

 

[Don Tinny]

I wonder how neuromodulation works if you have severe tinnitus with mild hearing loss. I assume that my hearing loss is mild...

 

[PeterPan]

Would be great if 1-2 questions on visual snow were included in your survey!

Hi Sevv, Yes we already have a question which asks if the participant has Visual Snow at baseline, but no questions about changes. There are some questions with free text responses, and changes in Visual Snow could be entered there.

 

[spedgas]

It was tough waiting six months into 2019 for this device to come out. Now that it's out it's brutal waiting just six weeks for the earliest positive results.

 

[acute]

What do you guys think about these?
Is this mild hearing loss?

 

[El BUZZ]

They showed me white headphones, not that it matters but I prefer my gadgets to match...

Give me a pair of outrageous Hello Kitty pink headphones full of tawdry plastic diamonds, pearls and jewels. Tell me I have to wear them around the most dangerous jail yard. Remote chance of a 1% reduction of my tinnitus by doing it 4 hours a day. I'd do it. No hands shaking.

 

[just1morething]

What do you guys think about these?
Is this mild hearing loss?

View attachment 31193 View attachment 31194

Looks like a Ski-Slope HF hearing loss like mine. Mine is worse though.

I don't know what your lower graph is?

https://www.audicus.com/how-to-read-an-audiogram/

 

[Alue]

I've been to Neuromod and refused the device, gutted.

I have moderate high frequency hearing loss and took the audiogram with me. I had their test and have been refused on hearing loss grounds.

Nowhere in the questionnaire does it ask for details of hearing loss. Feeling tired and humiliated, still in Dublin and flying back tomorrow.

They are preparing for their launch in Germany, 2 dour Germans sat in but didn't engage with me!

Staff there are very nice but it's been a very expensive sense of failure.

Good luck to others.

Eve

I'm sorry to hear that. That sounds pretty sloppy on their part. They should have screened that over the phone.

 

[Alue]

Why? It's a consultation to establish if a user is eligible for the device. You're paying for the consultation and that's exactly what @Nanny chocolate received.

It's regrettable that Neuromod decided that they didn't fit the criteria. But what's the alternative? Would you rather they snipped patients for the full €2500 if they knew beforehand the device wasn't likely to help?

I don't know, maybe clearly stating the exclusionary criteria.

 

[Bndsmheowqhe]

I don't know, maybe clearly stating the exclusionary criteria.

They should still offer them the opportunity to buy it with the understanding that it may not work for them.

 

[RichardGuy]

I wonder how neuromodulation works if you have severe tinnitus with mild hearing loss. I assume that my hearing loss is mild...

20 dB is now considered mild hearing loss? My audiologist here in the United States says that's quite normal...

Also, your post + some of the others basically confirm my theories about tinnitus with very little, if any, real hearing loss: it's possible to have it very bad, but have excellent hearing. When I had my first hearing test November 2017 my lowest dip was at 10 dB...

 

[gorzakus]

What do you guys think about these?
Is this mild hearing loss?

View attachment 31193 [ATTACHhearing =full]31194[/ATTACH]

I have the same audiogram and the two ENTs I went to said I had normal hearing, not even mild hearing loss...

I don't feel like having hearing loss either, I hear everything clearly.

 

[PeterPan]

And also would be great if questions about the degree of the hearing loss and the cause of the tinnitus would also be included

Yes, we have these as well!

 

[Mike T]

What do you guys think about these?
Is this mild hearing loss?

View attachment 31193 View attachment 31194

Looks good to me, mine drops to 30 at one point in one ear and the ear which has tinnitus drops to 40 at one point. I also asked what is considered hearing loss and was told 20 is considered the cut off. And naturally age is a big factor.

 

[Fabrikat]

Also, your post + some of the others basically confirm my theories about tinnitus with very little, if any, real hearing loss: it's possible to have it very bad, but have excellent hearing. When I had my first hearing test November 2017 my lowest dip was at 10 dB...

Testing above the standard 8 kHz frequency may indicate where the hearing loss lies.

 

[Allan1967]

***Adding this post here from the original Lenire thread***

A summary of use from start to finish.

So as per the instructions from Lenire, find a comfortable seated position - upright preferably. In their words, this reduces the risk of you falling asleep during the treatment and the tongue tip losing contact with your tongue.

Switch on the Lenire device by pressing and holding the power button, you'll get a green battery light (top light) which indicates the battery is well charged. This turns orange when the battery needs charging. If the tongue tip is already plugged into the device, the status light for the tongue tip will pulse green (Left hand light).

View attachment 31129

There is also a status light for the Bluetooth headset (right hand light) which pulses blue until the headset is switched on and pairs automatically. So before treatment can start, you have to make sure this is connected and the status light changes from pulsing blue to solid green.

View attachment 31130

Once everything is plugged in and paired (it's very easy) you will notice the white light that appears directly underneath the power button. This basically means the device is ready to go and treatment can begin.

Place the tongue tip over your bottom lip so your lip sits just behind the notch and rest the metal nodes onto your tongue. It takes a bit of fiddling at first to find a comfortable position so you're not forcing your lips closed or pressing your tongue up the entire time. As soon as your tongue makes contact with the nodes, the pulsing green light goes to a solid green light.

Pop the headphones over your ears, they're comfortable enough for the length of treatment. During the training they do emphasize the importance of making sure the correct speaker is over it's corresponding ear, R - Right and L - Left. This is due to the device being configured for your audio profile and hearing levels in each individual ear. They've made this pretty easy...

View attachment 31131

Now everything's switched on, in your mouth and over your ears you can press play. You'll notice the white LED will begin to rotate clockwise around the light bars.

View attachment 31132

The first thing you'll hear is white-noise, it sounds very similar to waves on a shoreline or wind rushing through tree's - very soothing. There's a mixture of raindrop noises alongside slow piano chords. This in my opinion, is just ambient sound to make the experience more soothing. The important sound comes in the form of a strange chirp (I don't know any other way to describe it) - @Redknight @Allan1967 you guys might be able to explain that sound better than I can.

This "chirp" is much faster in that it will play multiple chirps per piano chord but they're still in sync. The reason I say this is the important sound is because as soon as the chirp begins, your tongue tip will begin to give off synchronized tingles onto your tongue. It's not an uncomfortable sensation, but it is very foreign in that it's difficult to relate to other feelings. They're very isolated tingles / pops in the exact position of the metal nodes on the tongue tip.

FYI - According to the product specialist at Lenire, these "tingles", their frequency and the way they are sync'd with the sound depends on the treatment you've been given. The impression I got here is there is more than one pattern that Lenire can choose from to set on your device (My interpretation of what was said, not fact).

The music varies slightly throughout the treatment, sometimes the white-noise is more prominent, sometimes the piano chords and chirps are more prominent.

Around 20 minutes into my treatment the white-noise was much louder than any other sound coming through the headphones - almost borderline with what I'd consider as my comfortable max volume and this lasted for a few minutes, at which point it returned to its default level alongside the other sound effects.

Truthfully, after 20 - 25 minutes of sitting, doing nothing and listening to the "music" it does get a little boring and you find yourself struggling to not get distracted by other things.

As the treatment ends, the music begins to fade out gently - there is no abrupt stop in sound. It's a gentle gradient until the sound fades into nothing. This indicates the end of the treatment and the white light will return back to its position under the power button.

Overall - The treatment is by no means uncomfortable, distressing or overbearing. It's a very user friendly piece of equipment and the treatment seems to have been refined to match. Volumes can be adjusted, intensity of the tongue tip can be adjusted and all the equipment is charged via USB which is handy. They do provide a charger in the box!

That's about as much as I can explain having only used it for 30 minutes, if there's anything particular you want to know then you're welcome to ask.

That's a very accurate explanation @Cojackb.

I don't quite know how to describe the chirps either. I found the training experience very similar to what you might get in an Apple Store. It was mentioned to me that tinnitus might feel worse afterwards as well. My tinnitus is bad when it's bad and right now my tinnitus is bad. Too early to speculate I suppose.

 

[Candy]

Give me a pair of outrageous Hello Kitty pink headphones full of tawdry plastic diamonds, pearls and jewels. Tell me I have to wear them around the most dangerous jail yard. Remote chance of a 1% reduction of my tinnitus by doing it 4 hours a day. I'd do it. No hands shaking.

Don't get me wrong, I'd do the same, I'd walk around in a helmet if it helped!

 

[Candy]

What do you guys think about these?
Is this mild hearing loss?

View attachment 31193 View attachment 31194

Well I had a similar dip on my audiogram and I was told I had normal hearing all along.

Then recently when revisiting everything I realised that that dip does represent hearing loss. When I asked if I might have hidden hearing loss, I was told that it was not hidden and that that dip was hearing loss although it fell in the normal parameters.

I sometimes wonder if my tinnitus was responsible for those results as it's very loud in a soundproof room with headphones on... but part of me is happy to have a reason for my tinnitus... given that I never had a history of noise exposure.

 

[Mymlan]

@Candy, is a dip down to 10 dB considered hearing loss?

 

[Sevv]

@Candy, is a dip down to 10 dB considered hearing loss?

I've read 16-24 dB is considered slight hearing loss and 25-40 dB (?) mild hearing loss. So 10 dB is considered normal hearing.

 

[Candy]

Any dip is hearing loss as opposed to hidden hearing loss where there is a flat line, is my guess...

 

[Redknight]

• Normal hearing (up to 20 dB HL)
• Mild hearing loss (21 to 40 dB HL)
• Moderate hearing loss (41 to 70 dB HL)
• Severe hearing loss (71 to 95 dB HL)
• Profound hearing loss (95 dB HL or greater)

 

[Mymlan]

I've read 16-24 dB is considered slight hearing loss and 25-40 dB (?) mild hearing loss. So 10 dB is considered normal hearing.

Thank you. Then I have hidden hearing loss, nerve injury/damage. I have no dips below 10 dB, even up to 16 kHz. Regardless I have tinnitus.

 

[Don Tinny]

20 dB is now considered mild hearing loss? My audiologist here in the United States says that's quite normal...

Also, your post + some of the others basically confirm my theories about tinnitus with very little, if any, real hearing loss: it's possible to have it very bad, but have excellent hearing. When I had my first hearing test November 2017 my lowest dip was at 10 dB...

An audiologist told me that it's a "first degree" hearing loss. Who knows...

 

[TheDanishGirl]

How many on this forum have started the treatment?

 

[dayma]

I've read 16-24 dB is considered slight hearing loss and 25-40 dB (?) mild hearing loss. So 10 dB is considered normal hearing.

I was told 25-30 dB was the "warning" area and 30 dB was the start of mild loss. Seems like there are just variations of this definition between experts. I dunno...

 

[acute]

Looks like a Ski-Slope HF hearing loss like mine. Mine is worse though.

I don't know what your lower graph is?

https://www.audicus.com/how-to-read-an-audiogram/

My lower graph is another audiometry, but it shows different results.

I have the same audiogram and the two ENTs I went to said I had normal hearing, not even mild hearing loss...

I don't feel like having hearing loss either, I hear everything clearly.

Yes, that was they told me. I was told I had normal hearing, but I guess a dip is a dip... Even if the drop does not reach 20 dB or 30 dB... But I don't know. Apparently, it's only considered hearing loss when the drop is more than 20 dB.

The funny thing is that I did three different audiograms, on different days and different clinics - two of them I have published above - and they all show different results. In one I have no drop in 8 kHz, in another I only have drop in 6 kHz... Weird.

Well I had a similar dip on my audiogram and I was told I had normal hearing all along.

Then recently when revisiting everything I realised that that dip does represent hearing loss. When I asked if I might have hidden hearing loss, I was told that it was not hidden and that that dip was hearing loss although it fell in the normal parameters.

I suppose that even those dips that are hearing loss within normal parameters may be the cause of our tinnitus.

 

[Alue]

20 dB is now considered mild hearing loss? My audiologist here in the United States says that's quite normal...

Also, your post + some of the others basically confirm my theories about tinnitus with very little, if any, real hearing loss: it's possible to have it very bad, but have excellent hearing. When I had my first hearing test November 2017 my lowest dip was at 10 dB...

0-20 normal hearing, 20-40 mild hearing loss. 20 dB dip is borderline.

I've read 16-24 dB is considered slight hearing loss and 25-40 dB (?) mild hearing loss. So 10 dB is considered normal hearing.

Isn't the margin of error like ±5 dB? I've taken quite a few and have never seen an audiogram take smaller steps than 5 dB increments. Audiograms are such a rudimentary way of measuring hearing loss.