Lenire — Bimodal Stimulation Treatment by Neuromod

[JayBowson]

Yeah explanations are too complex for us stupid sheep.

I don't believe for a second you don't understand the difference between advertising/marketing and scientific/medical data. Some people on this thread really are just looking for excuses to whine.

The vast majority of people who suffer from tinnitus aren't clued in to the tinnitus research field and certainly aren't medically literate(myself included). Dear ol' Mary Smith of 75 years young, living in the rural west of Ireland might not even know the term "tinnitus". My friends mother who suffers from it didn't know. And if I'd started rattling off about bi-modal stimulation she'd have thought I was speaking in tongues.

This is what the image is for. The uninformed public. Of course you know the difference already so I'm not sure why anyone is bothering to explain.

 

[Amv]

Please guys, just take a look at the many papers of Dr. Hubert Lim and let me know if that is no science to you.

• https://med.umn.edu/bio/ent-faculty/hubert-lim
• https://www.cell.com/neuron/pdfExtended/S0896-6273(18)30371-4

He knows more about science than you, period. And he was hired to fine tune the device which then was tested with consumers and results were favorable in reducing THI scores as declared per Neuromod.

Does a toothbrush company explain you the whole process of manufacturing their product? Or do they just tell you their product is good for whitening the teeth and killing bacteria and generally just communicating what the consumer must really know?

Neuromod has launched a device based on valid science, aimed at reducing tinnitus. It has been shown to reduce the THI scores in a larger than the average tinnitus trial.

Period. Next step, wait for enough consumers to share their experiences with the rest of us who can't test the device right now ourselves.

Happy day to all

 

[kelpiemsp]

It's pretty clear how Lenire / bimodal stimulation works. It's an outcome of your brain's attempt to reconcile the differences in the signal input. It expects them to arrive at a certain rate. When they don't, the brain adjusts to experience them at its preferred interval. That process reduces fusiform activity.

Have you even read the papers???

 

[Agrajag364]

Bi-modal stimulation in the treatment of tinnitus: a study protocol for an exploratory trial to optimise stimulation parameters and patient subtyping

A bit more detail here.

 

[Paulmanlike]

I'm still here everyone, checking in occasionally, Tinnitus Talk and the Internet will make or break Neuromod in the next 12 months.

Believe me, given the common occurrence of tinnitus YOU WILL KNOW IN TIME IF THIS IS THE REAL DEAL OR NOT.

There is a reason why this hasn't attracted media attention yet and that's because there isn't enough evidence it does 'anything'.

Remember Dr. Nagler who used to post here? He came out with a cracking line something along the lines of as soon as a treatment or cure is proven it will be headline news. This isn't headline news, at least not yet or maybe never.

One or two testimonials are not enough, even from long-term members on this forum. If it does what their so called trials achieved, 66% got clinically significant improvement - it will be obvious in the next 12 months, probably even sooner than that.

If not, it will be another Desyncra, (relatively unheard of years later) and the only stream of revenue will be of desperate people who won't take the evidence (or lack thereof) seriously.

Also, I'm not intending to be negative - just offering my thoughts. I for one am hoping Neuromod succeeds and the real evidence comes over the next few months.

Good luck everybody!

 

[ruud1boy]

@ruud1boy - Less intrusive? You mean - quieter?

I haven't said 'less intrusive' - you're mixing me up with @BigNick.

I'll do a detailed update at the four week mark, but pleased to say it's been a good first week for me. Not needed sound therapy at night and my tinnitus is less intrusive. No adverse effects.

I've been using Lenire for all of one week so far. I haven't experienced any adverse affects - 'disimprovement' in Neuromod newspeak terms - but as I've said before, my longstanding (3 years) moderate / severe tinnitus has been at the lower end of my usual range for the last week.

 

[Piney]

I wonder what happened with the patients in the testimonial videos who said their tinnitus had moved into the background. I wonder if they've gotten better results after the trial, and if they are still using the device or not.

 

[Don Tinny]

Remember Dr. Nagler who used to post here? He came out with a cracking line something along the lines of as soon as a treatment or cure is proven it will be headline news. This isn't headline news, at least not yet or maybe never.

I'm also a bit more skeptical about Lenire and I need some good reviews, but I have read some old posts and it seems like Dr. Nagler was a "TRT preacher".

Sound therapy doctors aren´t optimistic about the future.

 

[Notch]

I wonder what happened with the patients in the testimonial videos who said their tinnitus had moved into the background. I wonder if they've gotten better results after the trial, and if they are still using the device or not.

I don't think they were allowed to keep the device. They got 12 weeks of use and then were monitored for 12 months.

 

[Sironketchup]

Guys with first improvements after this short time I can feel it!
This bis gonna be our time.
I can feel it in my pants and it feels soft and nice!
Hope you improve more over the next months!

 

[AfroSnowman]

Yes we're collecting that data!

Hazel,

Obviously we are all super anxious to get some real world data on Neuromod. Anecdotes are great but ultimately not what we need.

With the data you are collecting, when do you anticipate on releasing the initial numbers to this community?

Also if you can answer, approximately how many people's data are you currently tracking?

Thanks.

 

[ruud1boy]

I don't think they were allowed to keep the device. They got 12 weeks of use and then were monitored for 12 months.

Caroline, their audiologist, told me they still have patients using devices purchased back in 2015, when they were selling this as the 'MuteButton'. She said they have a number of people who use it for a while, it calms their tinnitus down for 6 months or so and then they go back to it again. I could cope with that. It didn't smell like BS when she told me.

 

[valeri]

Apology if this was asked before but do any of current users of Lenire also have hyperacusis?

 

[AfroSnowman]

Apology if this was asked before but do any of current users of Lenire also have hyperacusis?

I imagine some of them have hyperacusis yes, but more importantly folks with hyperacusis are reported by Neuromod to be 'super responders' to Lenire.

 

[Markku]

With the data you are collecting, when do you anticipate on releasing the initial numbers to this community?

We haven't made a decision on that. The Lenire User Experience Group members are asked to fill in brief questionnaires at the device fitting stage, the 6-week checkpoint, the 12-week checkpoint, and then at 3, 6 and 12-months post-treatment stages. I'm not sure if we should publish anything before we have some data from the 3 months post-treatment stage. We'll see.

Also if you can answer, approximately how many people's data are you currently tracking?

161 people have signed up wanting to share their experiences - about 20% of those have so far provided device fitting appointment dates.

Currently 11 people have filled the first part of the survey that needs to be filled just before starting the treatment. It remains to be seen how many fill the follow-up surveys, but unfortunately no doubt there will be dropouts.

@PeterPan is absolutely magnificent, out of this world really, as the Project Manager of the experience group, and he's been trying to get people to fill the surveys who have not yet. I hope people part of the group would take the short time needed to fill the surveys when invited to. It's very much appreciated. Obviously the sample size is, to begin with, very modest, but hopefully over time more people sign up and become part of the group.

 

[just1morething]

Caroline, their audiologist, told me they still have patients using devices purchased back in 2015, when they were selling this as the 'MuteButton'. She said they have a number of people who use it for a while, it calms their tinnitus down for 6 months or so and then they go back to it again. I could cope with that. It didn't smell like BS when she told me.

Was that the exact same device as the current one?

 

[ruud1boy]

Was that the exact same device as the current one?

No - she was very clear that the current Lenire device was a step forward from the MuteButton. MuteButton was set for a particular treatment parameters and there was no adjustment of those parameters half-way through the treatment, as is the case with Lenire - this was something that they've identified in the more extensive trials as being more effective.

 

[JayBowson]

No - she was very clear that the current Lenire device was a step forward from the MuteButton. MuteButton was set for a particular treatment parameters and there was no adjustment of those parameters half-way through the treatment, as is the case with Lenire - this was something that they've identified in the more extensive trials as being more effective.

This is honestly what I find the most heartening. If indeed the whole bi-modal stimulation thing isn't one big scam, who knows what improvements they'll be able to drive from this real world deployment and feedback. Refining timings, driving further and longer improvement, profiling and increasing their ability to prescribe it.

We really owe a large debt to the people risking their cash to essentially beta test this product for us.

 

[F-u-T]

Refining timings, driving further and longer improvement, profiling and increasing their ability to prescribe it.

We really owe a large debt to the people risking their cash to essentially beta test this product for us.

You hit the nail on the head. Bi-modal stimulation is all about the timing and signal duration. The more this treatment is applied and refined the more effective the efficacy we should see.

 

[Simon Czt]

You hit the nail on the head. Bi-modal stimulation is all about the timing and signal duration. The more this treatment is applied and refined the more effective the efficacy we should see.

I have a question that bothers me. For a month month my tinnitus has been fluctuating a lot from one day to the next. The settings / timings will still be effective in the long term, even if my tinnitus changes every day?

For example, if they adjust the device when my tinnitus is having a "good day" and the next day I have a "very bad day" (change in pitch, loudness), the adjustments will still be effective?

I wonder if that could be a problem, even with Susan Shore's device.

 

[Candy]

The device is set to hearing parameters, not to your tinnitus profile...

 

[Krolo]

Question here for the people who have gotten their units.

How many days was it between the assessment and fitting of the device?

 

[AliceW]

@Simon Czt

It's the same for me... My tinnitus is also reactive to some sounds, on some days.
My tinnitus is very much fluctuating, depending on days or moments...

I think Lenire needs to be adjusted based on our tinnitus being the worst. No?

(« Qui peut le plus peut le moins » as we say in French...)

 

[RaZaH]

What I do not understand is how they deal with high frequency tinnitus above 8 kHz since the treatment is tailored to your hearing profile?

I would come up with a dip at 4 kHz but no tinnitus in that range?

Anyone who has high frequency tinnitus using Lenire?
Any thoughts on this high frequency issue?

 

[Ruse]

What I do not understand is how they deal with high frequency tinnitus above 8 kHz since the treatment is tailored to your hearing profile?

I would come up with a dip at 4 kHz but no tinnitus in that range?

Anyone who has high frequency tinnitus using Lenire?
Any thoughts on this high frequency issue?

Dr. O'Neill said in the Q&A that tinnitus pitch didn't matter and it's more about getting enough stimulation into the brain.

It's an interesting point to bring up though - if the pitch of the tones don't matter then what is the point of adjusting this to a patient's hearing profile?

I do believe that @kelpiemsp had high frequency tinnitus which was reduced through the University of Minnesota device though.

 

[kelpiemsp]

What I do not understand is how they deal with high frequency tinnitus above 8 kHz since the treatment is tailored to your hearing profile?

I would come up with a dip at 4 kHz but no tinnitus in that range?

Anyone who has high frequency tinnitus using Lenire?
Any thoughts on this high frequency issue?

Because your tinnitus frequency has absolutely nothing to do with this treatment.

 

[Sironketchup]

As far as I know they need your audiogram to adjust the sounds and make sure you get enough audio input.

The therapy aims to calm down the fusiform cells in you dorsal cochlear nucleus. So as long as your tinnitus is due to overactivity of these cells (good sign is if you can modulate your tinnitus with your jaw) this therapy might help you.

 

[JohnAdams]

As far as I know they need your audiogram to adjust the sounds and make sure you get enough audio input.

The therapy aims to calm down the fusiform cells in you dorsal cochlear nucleus. So as long as your tinnitus is due to overactivity of these cells (good sign is if you can modulate your tinnitus with your jaw) this therapy might help you.

Impact of Sound Exposure and Aging on Brain-Derived Neurotrophic Factor and TrkB Receptors Levels in Dorsal Cochlear Nucleus 80 Days Following Sound Exposure

 

[Phendran]

(good sign is if you can modulate your tinnitus with your jaw).

I seem to be able to increase the volume of my tinnitus by clenching my jaw. Is that reasonable if my tinnitus is due to noise exposure?

 

[Ruse]

I seem to be able to increase the volume of my tinnitus by clenching my jaw. Is that reasonable if my tinnitus is due to noise exposure?

Yes.