Lenire — Bimodal Stimulation Treatment by Neuromod

#3,572
Phendran said:
I seem to be able to increase the volume of my tinnitus by clenching my jaw. Is that reasonable if my tinnitus is due to noise exposure?
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This is called somatic tinnitus. It can be a result of a variety of causes. My jaw, neck and even eyes can modulate my tinnitus. Antibiotics caused mine.
 
#3,580
Who the f**k knows about any of this?

We all need easy access to this like R David Case's thing. There is no reason this should cost what it does. Give me a Lenire and I'll make a $50 equivalent with an Arduino.
 
#3,582
Why are people still asking if this helps hyperacusis? Watch the Q and A. They give a pretty obvious answer about this not helping hyperacusis. Ross flatout says "it is not a treatment for hyperacusis".
 
#3,584
I think Lenire is not able to raise sound tolerance thresholds, only a good sound therapy used for several months can do it.

On the other hand, using Lenire, there can certainly be a positive effect on the tensor tympani muscle which is overexcited by calming the global auditory system related to the action on the trigeminal nerve.

@Clare B and @kelpiemsp said themselves that their sensitivity to noises like dishes, balloons popping and barking dogs are gone after using the device...
 
#3,585
Hi guys,

I really hope we will know more soon. Let's see how the User Experiences will go...

The early users are still only in their third or forth week, so it's still a waiting game...
 
#3,586
JohnAdams said:
Who the f**k knows about any of this?

We all need easy access to this like R David Case's thing. There is no reason this should cost what it does. Give me a Lenire and I'll make a $50 equivalent with an Arduino.
Click to expand...
People have been doing DYI neuromodulation on Reddit and Facebook. It's easy to create a device that will play tones and send electrical current.

Getting the patterns that work and are tested / controlled across a user set is where Neuromod will make their money.
 
#3,587
JohnAdams said:
Who the f**k knows about any of this?
We all need easy access to this like R David Case's thing. There is no reason this should cost what it does. Give me a Lenire and I'll make a $50 equivalent with an Arduino.
Click to expand...
^^^ Exhibit A for why medical patents need to exist. It's not the hardware, it's the software, and that took R&D money to develop. If you worked in the field you wouldn't take kindly to this attitude.

Also, the cost is subjective. Note that @annV was so sure it would cost more she bet her boobs on it.
 
#3,588
JohnAdams said:
Who the f**k knows about any of this?

We all need easy access to this like R David Case's thing. There is no reason this should cost what it does. Give me a Lenire and I'll make a $50 equivalent with an Arduino.
Click to expand...
What you pay for isn't the hardware you're getting. It's the research that's going into figuring out what needs to be done and how to do it.

From https://www.buzzmaven.com/old-engineer-hammer-2/:
The Graybeard engineer retired and a few weeks later the Big Machine broke down, which was essential to the company's revenue. The Manager couldn't get the machine to work again so the company called in Graybeard as an independent consultant.

Graybeard agrees. He walks into the factory, takes a look at the Big Machine, grabs a sledge hammer, and whacks the machine once whereupon the machine starts right up. Graybeard leaves and the company is making money again.

The next day Manager receives a bill from Graybeard for $5,000. Manager is furious at the price and refuses to pay. Graybeard assures him that it's a fair price. Manager retorts that if it's a fair price Graybeard won't mind itemizing the bill. Graybeard agrees that this is a fair request and complies.

The new, itemized bill reads….

Hammer: $5

Knowing where to hit the machine with hammer: $4995​
 
#3,589
I am perplexed as to why we are not seeing "user reports" or "user reviews" from those using Lenire. Has someone asked these people to presently refrain from reporting their experiences?
 
#3,591
GlennS said:
It's not the hardware, it's the software, and that took R&D money to develop. If you worked in the field you wouldn't take kindly to this attitude.

Also, the cost is subjective. Note that @annV was so sure it would cost more she bet her boobs on it.
Click to expand...
The timing specs may well be available in the published paper. If it's to be repeatable, it can't be secret.

Also, if one includes the costs of replacing the tongue tips at the specified intervals, Lenire will cost considerably more than the initial fee.

Technically, @annV is correct about the actual total cost. Over time, it will exceed her €3000 estimate.
 
#3,592
Fabrikat said:
The timing specs may well be available in the published paper. If it's to be repeatable, it can't be secret.

Also, if one includes the costs of replacing the tongue tips at the specified intervals, Lenire will cost considerably more than the initial fee.

Technically, @annV is correct about the actual total cost. Over time, it will exceed her €3000 estimate.
Click to expand...
Not sure how you have come to this figure.

The total treatment time will be circa 84 hours. The tongue tips last for 180 hours so you will be able to get at least 2 x 12 week treatments out of a single tongue tip.
 
#3,595
Ruse said:
Not sure how you have come to this figure.

The total treatment time will be circa 84 hours. The tongue tips last for 180 hours so you will be able to get at least 2 x 12 week treatments out of a single tongue tip.
Click to expand...
I've based it on the premise that Lenire may be a palliative treatment requiring extended use for some people. And that the tonguetip, as a consumable item, needing to be replaced over time, will incur additional costs for the user.
 
#3,596
Fabrikat said:
...if one includes the costs of replacing the tongue tips at the specified intervals, Lenire will cost considerably more than the initial fee.
Click to expand...
If it works the way they suggest it will, you only use it once and it lasts the rest of your life.

Also, R&D is typically secret only to facilitate being the first to patent an invention. The patent process is literally about documenting it to prove that you were the inventor, hence worthy of patent protection. Others are free to implement the invention as long as they pay a licensing fee to the patent holder. Things may work somewhat differently with medical patents. Patents can be rejected based on something known as "prior art". Pretty much all technology is evolutionary rather than revolutionary and Lenire isn't the first attempt at neuromodulation so I don't know how well any of their patents (if they have them) would hold up in court. But if they have any intention of being a for-profit enterprise they would probably want to prevent the cheap reverse-engineered counterfeits that @JohnAdams says he'd love to make.

And lastly, part of what you're paying for would best be classified as professional medical services, that is, the audiogram and the configuration of the device parameters to that audiogram and tracking progress through the milestones. How well would a DIY approach perform with amateur/laymen configuring the device? Is it worth the risk?

I get that this isn't cheap but I don't think it is at Epipen levels of abusive exploitation that way John is implying.
 
#3,598
GlennS said:
If it works the way they suggest it will, you only use it once and it lasts the rest of your life.

Also, R&D is typically secret only to facilitate being the first to patent an invention. The patent process is literally about documenting it to prove that you were the inventor, hence worthy of patent protection. Others are free to implement the invention as long as they pay a licensing fee to the patent holder. Things may work somewhat differently with medical patents. Patents can be rejected based on something known as "prior art". Pretty much all technology is evolutionary rather than revolutionary and Lenire isn't the first attempt at neuromodulation so I don't know how well any of their patents (if they have them) would hold up in court. But if they have any intention of being a for-profit enterprise they would probably want to prevent the cheap reverse-engineered counterfeits that @JohnAdams says he'd love to make.

And lastly, part of what you're paying for would best be classified as professional medical services, that is, the audiogram and the configuration of the device parameters to that audiogram and tracking progress through the milestones. How well would a DIY approach perform with amateur/laymen configuring the device? Is it worth the risk?

I get that this isn't cheap but I don't think it is at Epipen levels of abusive exploitation that way John is implying.
Click to expand...
Mindfulness meditation is similar to this, MRI scans show permanent shrinkage of the amygdala, and growth in the hippocampus and frontal cortex via neuroplasticity.

If bimodal stimulation physically changes the DCN, the tinnitus shouldn't come back provided you avoid more NIHL.
 

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