Lenire — Bimodal Stimulation Treatment by Neuromod

[Shelly75]

Yes but that doesn't necessarily mean each device will be equally effective. The devil's in the details.

BTW, there is a key phrase in this page:

the type of plasticity elicited in the auditory system using mSync is greatly altered depending on the attention and stress levels of the animals.​

This backs up my "superstition" that your state of mind during treatment will be an important factor in how well Lenire works.

Was this the case @kelpiemsp that you had to focus your attention on the sounds that were being played?

 

[JohnAdams]

Was this the case @kelpiemsp that you had to focus your attention on the sounds that were being played?

What is happening in your mind regarding focus should have nothing to do with this treatment.

 

[Heinrich_S7]

I was getting lithium orotate yesterday at a natural foods store and the guy in the supplements aisle recommended those exact 2 things and even wrote their names down for me.

Noopept is probably one of the most potent Nootropics on the planet that we know of. I wouldn't recommend stacking it with Piracetam. Either take one or the other, but mixing them both is dangerous, not sure if he told you that. Take either one or the other and stack it with CDP Choline. Personally, I'd recommend Noopept over Piracetam. I also wouldn't take Curcumin with it, too much BDNF at once is bad for you. Noopept is also raising your NGF.

On a side note, if you do start taking it, just keep in mind psychedelics are MUCH stronger (including marijuana), I'm not the only one who's noticed much stronger highs/ LSD trips with Noopept. So be careful there too.

When it comes to Lenire, I'm more than certain Noopept and the Racetams will increase the neuroplastic changes in the DCN while undergoing this treatment. I plan on cycling off Noopept before I get my Lenire so my tolerance is down (I usually take 2-3 weeks off every 2-3 months).

This entire treatment is based around neuroplasticity, you want to maximize that as much as humanly possible.

 

[JohnAdams]

Noopept is probably one of the most potent Nootropics on the planet that we know of. I wouldn't recommend stacking it with Piracetam. Either take one or the other, but mixing them both is dangerous, not sure if he told you that. Take either one or the other and stack it with CDP Choline. Personally, I'd recommend Noopept over Piracetam. I also wouldn't take Curcumin with it, too much BDNF at once is bad for you. Noopept is also raising your NGF.

On a side note, if you do start taking it, just keep in mind psychedelics are MUCH stronger (including marijuana), I'm not the only one who's noticed much stronger highs/ LSD trips with Noopept. So be careful there too.

When it comes to Lenire, I'm more than certain Noopept and the Racetams will increase the neuroplastic changes in the DCN while undergoing this treatment. I plan on cycling off Noopept before I get my Lenire so my tolerance is down (I usually take 2-3 weeks off every 2-3 months).

This entire treatment is based around neuroplasticity, you want to maximize that as much as humanly possible.

I'm experimenting with lithium at the moment so I probably won't try it anytime soon, plus I don't have to worry about enhancing my LSD trip because I don't take it.

 

[kelpiemsp]

What is happening in your mind regarding focus should have nothing to do with this treatment.

It absolutely does. Cortisol inhibits neuroplasticity.

 

[kelpiemsp]

Was this the case @kelpiemsp that you had to focus your attention on the sounds that were being played?

Not for me. But there was a lot of stuff going on in the lab around this tech.

 

[GlennS]

What is happening in your mind regarding focus should have nothing to do with this treatment.

And that opinion is based on what, exactly?

 

[hans799]

This entire treatment is based around neuroplasticity, you want to maximize that as much as humanly possible.

I have a stash of piracetam, but I never took any of it. What dose would you recommend to maximize neuroplasticity while undergoing treatment?

 

[Shelly75]

Not for me. But there was a lot of stuff going on in the lab around this tech.

So theoretically if you'd had a beer or taken headache tablets or were super stressed, anything like that could affect your response?

 

[JohnAdams]

Cortisol inhibits neuroplasticity.

Ah, I see. Makes sense.

 

[Phendran]

When it comes to Lenire, I'm more than certain Noopept and the Racetams will increase the neuroplastic changes in the DCN while undergoing this treatment.

Would be interesting if this is the case. Perhaps in the future the stimulation-treatment will be accompanied by taking things like these to increase the chance of positive changes.

 

[taco]

DeNovo will be the name of the Susan Shore device, according to a Reddit post I saw. This is good news, so we can have another option. Hopefully in the not too distant future.

 

[Heinrich_S7]

I have a stash of piracetam, but I never took any of it. What dose would you recommend to maximize neuroplasticity while undergoing treatment?

Piracetam doesn't increase BDNF and NGF at all. It's a positive allosteric modulator of the AMPA receptor. The same is true of Aniracetam, Phenylpiracetam, Pramiracetam. Most of their stimulation comes from an increase in dopaminergic sensitization (especially with Aniracetam, it seems to be the most potent traditional racetam when it comes to dopamine).

Noopept/Oberacetam, on the other hand, has all the same effects, benefits and mechanisms of action as the standard racetams, such as being a modulator for AMPA, , but what sets it apart from other cognitive enhancers is that it *also* acts on BDNF production, NGF production, serotonin/dopamine modulation (not just increased sensitization of the D2 receptors, but secretion as well). It also seems to have a larger effect on glutamate than the older racetams.

This is why Noopept achieved better results in cognitive disorders in the Soviet studies when compared to the older smart drugs. Noopept's benefits seem to last beyond cessation as well. The other racetams have more transient effects for mental cognition.

I think it'd be better to use Noopept with Lenire, since increased neurogenesis and synaptic generation are its forte. The only effects of Noopept that don't last beyond cessation is the AMPA modulation and dopamine/serotonin sensitization (basically what the other racetams do).

My current dosage for Noopept is 10mg twice a day. Piracetam is much weaker than Noopept, so the dose is 2-3 grams twice a day, instead of 10-30mg to achieve comparable effects.

 

[Krolo]

Piracetam doesn't increase BDNF and NGF at all. It's a positive allosteric modulator of the AMPA receptor. The same is true of Aniracetam, Phenylpiracetam, Pramiracetam. Most of their stimulation comes from an increase in dopaminergic sensitization (especially with Aniracetam, it seems to be the most potent traditional racetam when it comes to dopamine).

Noopept/Oberacetam, on the other hand, has all the same effects, benefits and mechanisms of action as the standard racetams, such as being a modulator for AMPA, , but what sets it apart from other cognitive enhancers is that it *also* acts on BDNF production, NGF production, serotonin/dopamine modulation (not just increased sensitization of the D2 receptors, but secretion as well). It also seems to have a larger effect on glutamate than the older racetams.

This is why Noopept achieved better results in cognitive disorders in the Soviet studies when compared to the older smart drugs. Noopept's benefits seem to last beyond cessation as well. The other racetams have more transient effects for mental cognition.

I think it'd be better to use Noopept with Lenire, since increased neurogenesis and synaptic generation are its forte. The only effects of Noopept that don't last beyond cessation is the AMPA modulation and dopamine/serotonin sensitization (basically what the other racetams do).

My current dosage for Noopept is 10mg twice a day. Piracetam is much weaker than Noopept, so the dose is 2-3 grams twice a day, instead of 10-30mg to achieve comparable effects.

I think that any type of experimentation with racetams and other noots should be exercised with extreme caution. There are ample anecdotal evidence of racetams and other nootropics worsening tinnitus.

Using the Lenire as prescribed is the only way to start. After that it's up to each and every individual. Any type of modulation to brain chemistry can result in negative reactions to it.

 

[Heinrich_S7]

I think that any type of experimentation with racetams and other noots should be exercised with extreme caution. There are ample anecdotal evidence of racetams and other nootropics worsening tinnitus.

Using the Lenire as prescribed is the only way to start. After that it's up to each and every individual. Any type of modulation to brain chemistry can result in negative reactions to it.

We all respond to different drugs differently. I've been on many nootropics over the years and practically every racetam, none of them increased my tinnitus, but none of them reduced it much either, just from personal experience. Then again, Marijuana doesn't spike my tinnitus either, so really we're all individual cases and we aren't going to all have the same reaction.

Besides, there's people who claim that even proton pump inhibitors caused their tinnitus, which is highly dubious. Racetams aren't ototoxic and neither are most Rx drugs doctors prescribe despite all the 'I took this drug one time and got it for life permanently' horror stories.

The best way to go about anything is by using harm reduction techniques. Start with the lowest possible dose of anything, then start from there.

But I wouldn't let tinnitus stop me from using any substance outside NSAIDs (because they're actually ototoxic).

 

[Manny]

DeNovo will be the name of the Susan Shore device, according to a Reddit post I saw. This is good news, so we can have another option. Hopefully in the not too distant future.

Can you please link to the post?

 

[Heinrich_S7]

Can you please link to the post?

I also saw this posted on r/tinnitusresearch over on Reddit today:

https://innovation.medicine.umich.edu/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/Shore-flyer-1.pdf

I'm not sure if this is old or not but it looks like the Michigan team is beginning the process towards commercialization.

I told you guys Neuromod's Lenire will put pressure on the other bimodal devices!

 

[Krolo]

We all respond to different drugs differently. I've been on many nootropics over the years and practically every racetam, none of them increased my tinnitus, but none of them reduced it much either, just from personal experience. Then again, Marijuana doesn't spike my tinnitus either, so really we're all individual cases and we aren't going to all have the same reaction.

Besides, there's people who claim that even proton pump inhibitors caused their tinnitus, which is highly dubious. Racetams aren't ototoxic and neither are most Rx drugs doctors prescribe despite all the 'I took this drug one time and got it for life permanently' horror stories.

The best way to go about anything is by using harm reduction techniques. Start with the lowest possible dose of anything, then start from there.

But I wouldn't let tinnitus stop me from using any substance outside NSAIDs (because they're actually ototoxic).

Regarding weed there is evidence that it does excite neurons in the auditory center. As you said we are all different. I have probably tried the most including racetams and would say that if one has panic or intense stress and anxiety I would much more propose Zoloft than anything else.

But hey, that is what worked for me. In the end, when one is desperate you try a whole bunch of stuff and I have gone through the most.

Looking forward to using the Lenire in a month for sure.

 

[zoid]

Lol, I see the doctors are joining this thread.

 

[Rafalek73]

If one has almost zero otoacoustic emissions but the audiogram is within the limits recommended by Neuromod, is a person qualified to try Lenire?

 

[Heinrich_S7]

Regarding weed there is evidence that it does excite neurons in the auditory center. As you said we are all different. I have probably tried the most including racetams and would say that if one has panic or intense stress and anxiety I would much more propose Zoloft than anything else.

But hey, that is what worked for me. In the end, when one is desperate you try a whole bunch of stuff and I have gone through the most.

Looking forward to using the Lenire in a month for sure.

Definitely, racetams are no replacement for medications!

Hopefully by this time next year we will either have significantly lower tinnitus or no tinnitus at all. I'm just happy we finally have actual treatments in the pipeline. Then you can all enjoy the herb without tinnitus!

I'm hoping Hubert Lim gets his device completed soon.

 

[GlennS]

Piracetam doesn't increase BDNF and NGF at all. It's a positive allosteric modulator of the AMPA receptor. The same is true of Aniracetam, Phenylpiracetam, Pramiracetam. Most of their stimulation comes from an increase in dopaminergic sensitization (especially with Aniracetam, it seems to be the most potent traditional racetam when it comes to dopamine).

Noopept/Oberacetam, on the other hand, has all the same effects, benefits and mechanisms of action as the standard racetams, such as being a modulator for AMPA, , but what sets it apart from other cognitive enhancers is that it *also* acts on BDNF production, NGF production, serotonin/dopamine modulation (not just increased sensitization of the D2 receptors, but secretion as well). It also seems to have a larger effect on glutamate than the older racetams.

I hope someone understands what these two paragraphs mean.

 

[Heinrich_S7]

I hope someone understands what these two paragraphs mean.

View attachment 31701

Ha, in laymen's terms, they basically increase focus and concentration by upping your dopamine sensitivity. Along with reducing inflammation by suppressing glutamate.

 

[kelpiemsp]

Ha, in laymen's terms, they basically increase focus and concentration by upping your dopamine sensitivity. Along with reducing inflammation by suppressing glutamate.

There will be long term consequences to these I'm sure. Messing with your dopamine system almost always spells trouble later on.

 

[Sironketchup]

Very nice to read guys. I'm a pharmacist and also thought about increasing neuroplasticity for Lenire, but if I get my hands on it, the first treatment will be without drugs. If it did not work, that I might consider a second (drugged) run.

I will also ask if I maybe should drink a beer before treatment and lower stress, and what about weed use before and after the sessions.

So glad to see that things are moving with the Michigan device finally in sight.

Keep your head up guys, there is light.

 

[Heinrich_S7]

There will be long term consequences to these I'm sure. Messing with your dopamine system almost always spells trouble later on.

Yep, that's why cycling off every 2 months is a good idea.

 

[Dizzyhead888]

Do you think after Lenire we can expose ourselves to pub level noises (75-90 dB)?

My social life is very limited given my tinnitus as most of nightlife plans involve a place with loud noise.

Most places (excluding clubs and concerts) are around 75-90 dB.

I really hope to be able to go back to enjoying those places.

 

[Heinrich_S7]

Do you think after Lenire we can expose ourselves to pub level noises (75-90 dB)?

My social life is very limited given my tinnitus as most of nightlife plans involve a place with loud noise.

Most places (excluding clubs and concerts) are around 75-90 dB.

I really hope to be able to go back to enjoying those places.

Going to be honest, I'm not going to risk loud environments anymore. Even if Lenire is my outright cure, I'm not going to risk making it worse even if I don't hear it.

I've learned my lesson. After this, I'm out. Done with any loud places and not wearing in-ear headphones again until we can regenerate our hearing or find a way to medically repress tinnitus indefinitely.

Personally, if you get out of this, don't ever put yourself back in.

 

[FGG]

There will be long term consequences to these I'm sure. Messing with your dopamine system almost always spells trouble later on.

Agree with this. Long term Adderal use is one example and it is not primarily a dopamine receptor drug (but still acts on it).

 

[Annpann]

Do you think after Lenire we can expose ourselves to pub level noises (75-90 dB)?

My social life is very limited given my tinnitus as most of nightlife plans involve a place with loud noise.

Most places (excluding clubs and concerts) are around 75-90 dB.

I really hope to be able to go back to enjoying those places.

Before I had tinnitus I went to a night club that I knew was going to be VERY loud. I invested in a good pair of ear plugs designed for concerts etc and they worked really well. I could hear the music fine and people speaking and no hiss whatsoever the next morning (wish I was like that now).

My first visit to Lenire is in October so am following the feedback posts with great interest.