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Lenire — Bimodal Stimulation Treatment by Neuromod

70% sounds good, but how can that be if only one person has seen good improvement?
Because you're haven't looked and only one other had a famously good reduction? There's many others but they're still anecdotes. About 24% seem to have what we can call a "great" reduction.
Typical evangelist strawman-tactic: claim that anyone expecting results above placebo are expecting a cure.

It can't be because it's an inaccurate percentage. I see we're going to dip right back into "is this dress black or blue" again.

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No I've actually been counting and keeping follow ups. Aside from PeterPan I have the most accurate states.

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Unfortunately Australia is still good decade behind the rest of the western world. Not much here is available or accepted as treatment despite being used in other developed countries.

They just love to brag about being the best in the world. Far from it unfortunately!

This is not only for tinnitus but other illnesses as well.

Anything that becomes treatment for tinnitus somewhere in the world will take at least 5 years to become available here.

I wouldn't hold my breath, we won't be helped in Australia.
We certainly are way behind in lots of medical treatments. Many people overseas think we have a good healthcare system, we actually have a very fractured system.

Working within in it was very frustrating to say the least, being a patient in it, extremely challenging.
 
Because you're haven't looked and only one other had a famously good reduction? There's many others but they're still anecdotes. About 24% seem to have what we can call a "great" reduction.

No I've actually been counting and keeping follow ups. Aside from PeterPan I have the most accurate states.

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Hey mate, I see I am in that list and I don't even have my Lenire yet...

My recent improvement (which lasted just one day) was part of my common fluctuations.

I hope you can add me again to that list with the same result soon, though.
 
Because you're haven't looked and only one other had a famously good reduction? There's many others but they're still anecdotes. About 24% seem to have what we can call a "great" reduction.

No I've actually been counting and keeping follow ups. Aside from PeterPan I have the most accurate states.

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Think you could probably also include @Clearance? Tinnitus resolved multiple times from Lenire / MuteButton.
 
Hey mate, I see I am in that list and I don't even have my Lenire yet...

My recent improvement (which lasted just one day) was part of my common fluctuations.

I hope you can add me again to that list with the same result soon, though.
I think anything with an "a" next to it refers to anecdotes!
 
Think you could probably also include @Clearance? Tinnitus resolved multiple times from Lenire / MuteButton.
I asked her if it was still gone but she hasn't gotten back to me yet. I might add her but right now I want to make absolutely sure that all the examples I pick are as solid as possible.
 
Hey mate, I see I am in that list and I don't even have my Lenire yet...

My recent improvement (which lasted just one day) was part of my common fluctuations.

I hope you can add me again to that list with the same result soon, though.
Sorry, It says EL BUZZ a. That seperate smaller list is my anecdotes list, which is second hand experiences of when people say they met someone who used Lenire and how they responded.

You said in a different comment that you met someone who used it, and I logged it because it was a trustworthy anecdote.
 
Interestingly I was reading through some of Clare B's posts and she mentioned that there was an assessment by a physiotherapist during the TENT-A2 trials to determine whether patients could modulate their tinnitus via movements of the neck / jaw etc.

This means that Neuromod will already know whether patients with somatic tinnitus will benefit more from the device.
if that's the case they've either confirmed or disproved the hypothesis to the point where they didn't bother asking me about it in my initial appointment.
 
Did you sit the "key" or legend for your chart? I don't understand the symbols sorry.
W = Worsened
N = No improvement
I = Improvement
G = Great improvement

There's a few others like Initial Improvement and Mild Improvement, but those are the important ones. I didn't add a key because these were supposed to be my own personal notes.
 
OK, challenge accepted, or as the Emperor would say:

giphy.gif


First off, are you aware that you have duplicate people in your list? I just finished reading through the entire User Experiences thread and put things into Excel. The criteria I use:

-Claire B not included. She was a trial participant.
-Only those at or near the end of treatment are in this list. Results fluctuate too much to include anyone else.
-Wishy-washy results that sound too much like Neuromod's video testimonials get filed under "Placebo". THAT is where the what-color-is-this-dress subjectivity is going to be.

BTW, I hesitate to mention this but we do have one disimprover followed by suicide. I'm not going to indict Neuromod but Allan's experience is still a matter of record.

So in my accounting, 19 total participants.

Disimprover: 3
No Change: 5
Placebo (wishy washy/mild/inconclusive): 8
Improver (aka statistically significant): 3

Final tally: 3 / 19 = 15.7%

Verdict: Results do NOT match Neuromod's claims.

Even if you include everyone in the placebo group it rises to 57.8% which is close to but still shy of their figures, but it helps explain their criteria which seems to chalk up every weak/wishy-washy outcome as a win.

Sample size is still much too small. Averages always fluctuate a lot with small sample sizes. I'd like to see well over 100 complete their treatment before drawing any conclusions, which I doubt we'll get before April.

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There is a lot of data being gathered for the user reports. It should be possible to account for all sorts of variables in the end. That's not to say there will be only one way to interpret the data, but try not to make it seem as though it will be impossible to draw some conclusions.
Hi Glenn,

Yes, we are are testing all the patient characteristics to see if they impact on the effectiveness of the device and already seeing some interesting results!

PeterPan.
 
Does anyone know if it's normal for tinnitus to change pitch when using Lenire?

I've been using it for a week now and my tinnitus has become extremely high pitched and unmaskable. I can't be 100% sure it's due to Lenire but I'm pretty sure because during the session I can hear my tinnitus tripping out lol.

I'm trying to stay calm because they said fluctuations are normal, but I assumed they meant fluctuations in volume and not tone.

At least I could mask my tinnitus before using sound therapies on YouTube. Now I can't :(
 
Because you're haven't looked and only one other had a famously good reduction? There's many others but they're still anecdotes. About 24% seem to have what we can call a "great" reduction.

No I've actually been counting and keeping follow ups. Aside from PeterPan I have the most accurate states.

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OK, fair enough. But how many of the 15 who said they had an improvement were sure about it?

Do you know how many of the 24% have somatic tinnitus?
 
Yikes, mine tends to be in the teens or twenties. Still wanted to do Lenire though!
But John, you said somewhere you can hear your tinnitus everywhere all the time (I imagine there will be a few exceptions to this). How can you manage to not feel bothered by it? I can hear mine everywhere all the time (shower included) and it is difficult not to feel screwed. In fact my expectation from Lenire is to stop hearing my tinnitus in some places. That would be enough for me to breathe.
 
But John, you said somewhere you can hear your tinnitus everywhere all the time (I imagine there will be a few exceptions to this). How can you manage to not feel bothered by it? I can hear mine everywhere all the time (shower included) and it is difficult not to feel screwed. In fact my expectation from Lenire is to stop hearing my tinnitus in some places. That would be enough for me to breathe.
I'm in the same boat symptomatically and sitting in a pub a stone's throw from Neuromod office I have the same hope as you that the treatment will grant me low enough tinnitus that I would not hear it while swimming or on a bike or watching tv. That being said I'll call it a success if it makes my milder days the norm.
 
OK, challenge accepted, or as the Emperor would say:

View attachment 34607

First off, are you aware that you have duplicate people in your list? I just finished reading through the entire User Experiences thread and put things into Excel. The criteria I use:

-Claire B not included. She was a trial participant.
-Only those at or near the end of treatment are in this list. Results fluctuate too much to include anyone else.
-Wishy-washy results that sound too much like Neuromod's video testimonials get filed under "Placebo". THAT is where the what-color-is-this-dress subjectivity is going to be.

BTW, I hesitate to mention this but we do have one disimprover followed by suicide. I'm not going to indict Neuromod but Allan's experience is still a matter of record.

So in my accounting, 19 total participants.

Disimprover: 3
No Change: 5
Placebo (wishy washy/mild/inconclusive): 8
Improver (aka statistically significant): 3

Final tally: 3 / 19 = 15.7%

Verdict: Results do NOT match Neuromod's claims.

Even if you include everyone in the placebo group it rises to 57.8% which is close to but still shy of their figures, but it helps explain their criteria which seems to chalk up every weak/wishy-washy outcome as a win.

Sample size is still much too small. Averages always fluctuate a lot with small sample sizes. I'd like to see well over 100 complete their treatment before drawing any conclusions, which I doubt we'll get before April.

View attachment 34608
Maybe you're a placebo. Do you even really exist?
 
OK, challenge accepted, or as the Emperor would say:

View attachment 34607

First off, are you aware that you have duplicate people in your list? I just finished reading through the entire User Experiences thread and put things into Excel. The criteria I use:

-Claire B not included. She was a trial participant.
-Only those at or near the end of treatment are in this list. Results fluctuate too much to include anyone else.
-Wishy-washy results that sound too much like Neuromod's video testimonials get filed under "Placebo". THAT is where the what-color-is-this-dress subjectivity is going to be.

BTW, I hesitate to mention this but we do have one disimprover followed by suicide. I'm not going to indict Neuromod but Allan's experience is still a matter of record.

So in my accounting, 19 total participants.

Disimprover: 3
No Change: 5
Placebo (wishy washy/mild/inconclusive): 8
Improver (aka statistically significant): 3

Final tally: 3 / 19 = 15.7%

Verdict: Results do NOT match Neuromod's claims.

Even if you include everyone in the placebo group it rises to 57.8% which is close to but still shy of their figures, but it helps explain their criteria which seems to chalk up every weak/wishy-washy outcome as a win.

Sample size is still much too small. Averages always fluctuate a lot with small sample sizes. I'd like to see well over 100 complete their treatment before drawing any conclusions, which I doubt we'll get before April.

View attachment 34608
It looks to me like Neuromod is doing kind of a Phase 2 and 3 for the FDA approval, but selling the stuff. Or maybe funding the R&D of the device with patients, and if they improve it is a "success story", otherwise, it was not the "right patient type".

All of it said with enough caution as all data is not available here. But Lenire is probably not mature enough to be considered a solid alternative on the market, from a pure medical stand point. Dr. Shore more or less also referred to that when she was asked about it.
 
Hi Glenn,

Yes, we are are testing all the patient characteristics to see if they impact on the effectiveness of the device and already seeing some interesting results!

PeterPan.
I know you already said it somewhere but when can we expect the results of your study?

I'm asking because today I received an e-mail from Neuromod with an invitation.

Really in doubt if I will go. Thanks!
 
All of it said with enough caution as all data is not available here. But Lenire is probably not mature enough to be considered a solid alternative on the market, from a pure medical stand point. Dr. Shore more or less also referred to that when she was asked about it.
Do you have a link to that video or text comment by Dr. Shore? Would be interested to see it, thanks.
 
Maybe you're a placebo. Do you even really exist?
Look, do we want this thread to drop down and scrutinize each and every placebo case one by one? I acknowledged that that's where the subjectivity is gonna be but mocking me is not going to suddenly make me shift those 1s over to the improver column. A wishy washy "the tinnitus is still there but I'm just sorta, um, dealing with it better" report ain't an improver. It just doesn't cut the mustard. It's the same sort of thing you'd expect to see out of any sham treatment's testimonials (including, presumably, MuteButton, Lenire's disgraced predecessor). Then you have to factor in that the risk of disimprovement is just as great as (statistically significant) improvement, and nothing but Neuromod's reassurance that disimprovement is temporary vs. "permanent" improvement.
 
$3k is an easy choice for me even if it is a temporary fix (having to do it for life.). I'd rather spend 30 minutes a day doing Lenire than guzzling 20 supplements.

The MuteButton thing... I'm not sure if that was an attempt at a scam, or just a poorly tested device.

@zoid when did you first sign up? I signed up only early December, got a follow-up saying mid 2020 a month later.

Thanks.
 
OK, challenge accepted, or as the Emperor would say:

View attachment 34607

First off, are you aware that you have duplicate people in your list? I just finished reading through the entire User Experiences thread and put things into Excel. The criteria I use:

-Claire B not included. She was a trial participant.
-Only those at or near the end of treatment are in this list. Results fluctuate too much to include anyone else.
-Wishy-washy results that sound too much like Neuromod's video testimonials get filed under "Placebo". THAT is where the what-color-is-this-dress subjectivity is going to be.

BTW, I hesitate to mention this but we do have one disimprover followed by suicide. I'm not going to indict Neuromod but Allan's experience is still a matter of record.

So in my accounting, 19 total participants.

Disimprover: 3
No Change: 5
Placebo (wishy washy/mild/inconclusive): 8
Improver (aka statistically significant): 3

Final tally: 3 / 19 = 15.7%

Verdict: Results do NOT match Neuromod's claims.

Even if you include everyone in the placebo group it rises to 57.8% which is close to but still shy of their figures, but it helps explain their criteria which seems to chalk up every weak/wishy-washy outcome as a win.

Sample size is still much too small. Averages always fluctuate a lot with small sample sizes. I'd like to see well over 100 complete their treatment before drawing any conclusions, which I doubt we'll get before April.

View attachment 34608
I fear this is more than likely closer to the reality of the situation.

I so hope I'm wrong though! I want this to work.
 
I'm in the same boat symptomatically and sitting in a pub a stone's throw from Neuromod office I have the same hope as you that the treatment will grant me low enough tinnitus that I would not hear it while swimming or on a bike or watching tv. That being said I'll call it a success if it makes my milder days the norm.
Go for it, mate. Forget all the assumptions, conjectures and speculation posted here. That's just smoke. The only and ultimate way of settling the dust around Lenire working or not is trying it. What doesn't work for one may work for others. Being proactive is key here.

I love swimming by the way and I am a classic bikes freak myself. Just have finished building my new one and can't wait to give it a shot. Wind in my ears can' t mask my tinnitus when riding. If Lenire prevents that to happen I will be more than happy.

Tell me the name of that pub btw ;)
Go visit O'Donogue's. Nicest pub in town in my opinion.
 
A wishy washy "the tinnitus is still there but I'm just sorta, um, dealing with it better" report ain't an improver. It just doesn't cut the mustard.
I'm struggling to think if there's a way to say this that will make you understand. It doesn't cut the mustard for you.
No-one else is obliged to use your standards.
How about we just take a users word for it eh? If a Lenire User says they have improved we count them as an improver? And the same for disimprovers. Why do you get to decide for all of us what someone elses feedback means? Including the person who gave the feedback.
Then you have to factor in that the risk of disimprovement is just as great as (statistically significant) improvement, and nothing but Neuromod's reassurance that disimprovement is temporary vs. "permanent" improvement.
I see you on here minimising and hand waving away improvers as "placebo" and "wishy washy" but why is it that you fail to turn the same boundless skepticism towards the disimprovers?
(With the exception of Allan1967 whom I won't be bringing up again in the discussion because I personally think its crass to debate such things) All of which are brand new posters with 1 post each and no actual verified purchase.

Where's your bottomless criticism and skepticism towards these posts?
Your bias and double standards are front and center Glenn for all and sundry to see.
 

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