Lenire — Bimodal Stimulation Treatment by Neuromod

[mark998]

Somatic just means we can modulate it by moving the neck and/or jaw. But the cause can still be noise induced.

They are not mutually exclusive.

I have tinnitus from noise exposure (headphones, I'm 99% sure).

So I just clenched my teeth. When I clench my back teeth, the tinnitus noise becomes significantly louder. It's basically a white noise sound, not a tone. When I unclench, the sound level drops down again.

Moving my neck or jaw does not change the sound.

I'm curious, does this mean that my tinnitus is somatic, at least to some extent? Or, not necessarily?

If so, what are the implications of this? Does it mean that perhaps I'd be a good candidate to be helped by Lenire or similar treatment, or not necessarily?

How about acupuncture/massage/anything else? Until reading the post above, I hadn't considered that the tinnitus might be somatic.

Thanks for any thoughts.

 

[Ruse]

I'm curious, does this mean that my tinnitus is somatic, at least to some extent? Or, not necessarily?

Correct, if you can modulate your tinnitus with movements of the face / jaw / neck etc then you have somatic tinnitus.

If so, what are the implications of this? Does it mean that perhaps I'd be a good candidate to be helped by Lenire or similar treatment, or not necessarily?

Possibly.

The Susan Shore device is supposedly for patients with somatic tinnitus.

It is only speculation at this moment in time that patients with somatic tinnitus would benefit more from Lenire, given the similarities between the technologies.

How about acupuncture/massage/anything else? Until reading the post above, I hadn't considered that the tinnitus might be somatic.

Unlikely if you're tinnitus was caused due to noise exposure.

 

[Autumnly]

I (finally) got an automated email reply from the Hannover clinic, I'm on their waiting list.

 

[davidmp]

I live in Germany too, currently I am visiting other doctors just to confirm it is not due to / aggravated by other condition (have some pain in neck and jaw currently) but my moderate hearing loss in 4 kHz and 8 kHz makes me think it is just due to that.

I also can increase the volume of the tinnitus by moving forward my jaw, it is curious and scary, don´t want to make many trials just in case turns worse (pure paranoia I guess).

So far the feedback on the Lenire User Experiences thread is not very promising, IMHO. I guess we need to wait for more input. If people begin to consistently report improvement, maybe I will also try in Hannover.

 

[ThomasC]

If I remember, Dr. Ross said that Lenire targets the fusiforms cells in the auditory cortex.
Aren't those cells part of the DCN?

Dr. Ross said the device targets several parts of the auditory but I have the impression those cells are only in the DCN.

I have not found a lot of information on those cells so I could be wrong.

 

[JohnK]

Hello from Dublin! I've just had the appointment and have been approved for the device (happy but not surprised thanks to all the great information people have posted in this thread).

I'll return January 31st to pick up the device. Woohoo!

 

[Autumnly]

If I remember, Dr. Ross said that Lenire targets the fusiforms cells in the auditory cortex.
Aren't those cells part of the DCN?

Dr. Ross said the device targets several parts of the auditory but I have the impression those cells are only in the DCN.

I have not found a lot of information on those cells so I could be wrong.

I can't remember O'Neill talking about it but Susan Shore from the University of Michigan talked about it here.

Spoiler

• A research group at the University of Michigan led by Susan Shore understood that the fusiform cells of the dorsal cochlear nucleus were a source of tinnitus. These cells, when hyperactive can send synchronized signals spontaneously to the rest of the hearing centers that is perceived as tinnitus. Exposure to loud noise could put the fusiform cells of the dorsal cochlear nucleus in this state of synchronized hyperactivity. The ill-effects are felt by our patients.
• By delivering precisely timed sounds coupled with weak electrical pulses, Susan Shore, and her colleagues demonstrated a reduction in this hyperactivity in guinea pigs. They have more recently documented substantial relief from tinnitus using this technique in a double-blinded, placebo-controlled trial in 20 human subjects. A more extensive clinical trial, funded by the NIH, is currently underway."
• The brain, and specifically the region of the brainstem called the dorsal cochlear nucleus, is the root of tinnitus," said Susan Shore, the U-M Medical School professor who leads the research team. "When the main neurons in this region, called fusiform cells, become hyperactive and synchronize with one another, the phantom signal is transmitted into other centers where perception occurs.
• "If we can stop these signals, we can stop tinnitus. That is what our approach attempts to do, and we're encouraged by these initial parallel results in animals and humans." source

 

[Jack Straw]

I (finally) got an automated email reply from the Hannover clinic, I'm on their waiting list.

View attachment 34421

Congratz!!!!!

 

[El BUZZ]

My appointment is also on April 2nd! Just booked my flight to Dublin...

Meet you there, mate. I'll stay at Gardiner Hostel. I know a couple of interesting spots in the city. DM me with your number if you want to and I'll Whatsapp you.

 

[ThomasC]

I can't remember O'Neill talking about it but Susan Shore from the University of Michigan talked about it here.

Spoiler

• A research group at the University of Michigan led by Susan Shore understood that the fusiform cells of the dorsal cochlear nucleus were a source of tinnitus. These cells, when hyperactive can send synchronized signals spontaneously to the rest of the hearing centers that is perceived as tinnitus. Exposure to loud noise could put the fusiform cells of the dorsal cochlear nucleus in this state of synchronized hyperactivity. The ill-effects are felt by our patients.
• By delivering precisely timed sounds coupled with weak electrical pulses, Susan Shore, and her colleagues demonstrated a reduction in this hyperactivity in guinea pigs. They have more recently documented substantial relief from tinnitus using this technique in a double-blinded, placebo-controlled trial in 20 human subjects. A more extensive clinical trial, funded by the NIH, is currently underway."
• The brain, and specifically the region of the brainstem called the dorsal cochlear nucleus, is the root of tinnitus," said Susan Shore, the U-M Medical School professor who leads the research team. "When the main neurons in this region, called fusiform cells, become hyperactive and synchronize with one another, the phantom signal is transmitted into other centers where perception occurs.
• "If we can stop these signals, we can stop tinnitus. That is what our approach attempts to do, and we're encouraged by these initial parallel results in animals and humans." source

This is what I read too, when we have hearing loss, the fusiform cells in the DCN become hyperactive. There is an integration of auditory and somatosensory stimuli in this part of the brain and we can modulate our tinnitus with head and jaw movements.

However, it is not true for every tinnitus sufferer. There are some people who can't modulate their tinnitus.

What if your tinnitus is not somatosensory? Do you think the DCN is still the source of the tinnitus? Do you know if those who can't modulate their tinnitus could be helped by bimodal stimulation?

 

[El BUZZ]

(I always have said much like sizzling sausages on a frying pan).

Pain in the ass at first but habituated with time. Fast forward to last November (2019)... a nasty spike in the left ear... a myriad of sounds now, the hiss that was always there, a higher pitched eeee and another sound almost like cutting metal in the distance. This has been very tough.

You just have described with scalpel accuracy how my tinnitus has developed over time and how it sounds now. That angle grinder chopping layers of tin sound... Yes! That's me 24/7. Are you aware of what triggered your spike?

 

[Laure Chauvin]

Hello everyone.

I wonder why nobody is posting anymore about their experiences using Lenire?

I have my first appointment in February but I am beginning to feel a little worried because some people on the forum are not satisfied with Lenire.

The latest review was not very optimistic by the way...

 

[Simon Czt]

I (finally) got an automated email reply from the Hannover clinic, I'm on their waiting list.

View attachment 34421

I'm on their waiting list too!! I'm so happy

 

[Soren]

I (finally) got an automated email reply from the Hannover clinic, I'm on their waiting list.

View attachment 34421

You say finally. When did you sent them an e-mail?

 

[Autumnly]

You say finally. When did you sent them an e-mail?

December 10th.

 

[GlennS]

I wonder why nobody is posting anymore about their experiences using Lenire?

They're posting. There just isn't a really big flood of new people using it. Not sure how big of a sample size we'll have when they formally crunch numbers in April.

 

[Alberte]

Hello from Dublin! I've just had the appointment and have been approved for the device (happy but not surprised thanks to all the great information people have posted in this thread).

I'll return January 31st to pick up the device. Woohoo!

Good! I'm glad for you. Keep us informed!

Alberte

 

[threefirefour]

They're posting. There just isn't a really big flood of new people using it. Not sure how big of a sample size we'll have when they formally crunch numbers in April.

They have about 40 people using it on Tinnitus Talk. Will probably grow more later.

I don't know if it's fair to say there's not many new people using it when a ton of appointments were recently accepted.

 

[El BUZZ]

Has anyone with severe tinnitus reported any benefit so far from Lenire? I'd love to know since it could make my current situation much easier to cope with.

 

[Lurius]

Some people on this thread have been asking lately whether Lenire would work better for somatic tinnitus, or for non-somatic.

I've been wondering this myself so I decided to get to the bottom of it.

I asked about this directly from Neuromod via email.

I got a reply today, unfortunately they only said that "it's best you bring this up with your audiologist during your appointment".

So I don't know either. But I will definitely bring it up when I see them.

 

[Ruse]

Some people on this thread have been asking lately whether Lenire would work better for somatic tinnitus, or for non-somatic.

I've been wondering this myself so I decided to get to the bottom of it.

I asked about this directly from Neuromod via email.

I got a reply today, unfortunately they only said that "it's best you bring this up with your audiologist during your appointment".

So I don't know either. But I will definitely bring it up when I see them.

Dr. O'Neill didn't seem able / willing to confirm any other responder sub groups in the latest podcast so I suspect it will be unlikely their audiologists will say anything different!

 

[GlennS]

I don't know if it's fair to say there's not many new people using it when a ton of appointments were recently accepted.

I meant there aren't many Tinnitus Talk members newly using it. Of course, people can find this forum and join after getting their units. I don't know what kind of outreach is going on to try to make that happen.

 

[Mikeyblue]

You just have described with scalpel accuracy how my tinnitus has developed over time and how it sounds now. That angle grinder chopping layers of tin sound... Yes! That's me 24/7. Are you aware of what triggered your spike?

I've been racking my brain trying to pin point why a) stressful period of work over months finally manifested itself in a spike (possibility) b) went on a date was near a speaker but hadn't my vibes earplugs in and the girl was half shouting in my left ear..I told her your shouting towards my ear ha ha and it was my left ear, I then put in the vibes plugs (More possible) c) was gymming for 4 months solid on a cut, lost over 12kg, drastically changed my diet, weights 3 times a week, niggling injuries in back and neck...then around the time of the spike I was 2 weeks into a bulk so changed up the diet again ..taking supplements lifting heavy etc so my body was probably crying from all the change (could be a possibility)... I can't pinpoint it though it could be something else entirely or completely spontaneous I dunno.

In the meantime I started taking some cbd this week, found it helpful my sleep has been good and I've found that metal grind has eased a good bit (I've been a little more relaxed this week too)

I need to follow up with my doc on this ENT appointment to get this ticked off before I go back for Lenire. I've been waiting for that consultant since November so that's a pain

 

[Mikeyblue]

I have tinnitus from noise exposure (headphones, I'm 99% sure).

So I just clenched my teeth. When I clench my back teeth, the tinnitus noise becomes significantly louder. It's basically a white noise sound, not a tone. When I unclench, the sound level drops down again.

Moving my neck or jaw does not change the sound.

I'm curious, does this mean that my tinnitus is somatic, at least to some extent? Or, not necessarily?

If so, what are the implications of this? Does it mean that perhaps I'd be a good candidate to be helped by Lenire or similar treatment, or not necessarily?

How about acupuncture/massage/anything else? Until reading the post above, I hadn't considered that the tinnitus might be somatic.

Thanks for any thoughts.

I've got the same... mine is noise induced but when I grit or clench my teeth my white noise / sizzling tinnitus increases, then eases when I unclench.

Have you gone to a dentist? Get that ticked off the list if you haven't... some can get worsened tinnitus with bite / night grinding / TMJ issues.

I don't see why you wouldn't be a good candidate for Lenire... You say your tinnitus was noise induced so at the end of the day your nerves / neurons in the brain (or whatever the scientific community would say) are misfiring... Lenire's purpose is to rewire those misfiring signals.

 

[Mikeyblue]

Has anyone with severe tinnitus reported any benefit so far from Lenire? I'd love to know since it could make my current situation much easier to cope with.

I looked at the patient success stories on their website in my deep dark days... gave me hope when I was feeling extremely shit. Particularly to know others were surviving on little sleep like myself in those darker days. It's time, patience and very slow progress. It's a grind, but it's the little wins and positivity that will get us all through. My wins are noticing I don't monitor the sound as much everyday and think about it as little as possible.

Some days good, some days not so good, but the ultimate goal is to rid the noise - I'm hoping Lenire does this, the backup goal is habituation... good things come to those who wait.

 

[Tybs]

I looked at the patient success stories on their website in my deep dark days... gave me hope when I was feeling extremely shit. Particularly to know others were surviving on little sleep like myself in those darker days. It's time, patience and very slow progress. It's a grind, but it's the little wins and positivity that will get us all through. My wins are noticing I don't monitor the sound as much everyday and think about it as little as possible.

Some days good, some days not so good, but the ultimate goal is to rid the noise - I'm hoping Lenire does this, the backup goal is habituation... good things come to those who wait.

Personally, I consider this the most healthy attitude. "Accept" that tinnitus is there for the moment, work towards habituation so one can at least function during the day: but hold on to hope as well, and check for solid treatment once in a while. If possible, then living with tinnitus for the rest of a lifetime should not be the final judgement.

 

[ChrisBoyMonkey]

I looked at the patient success stories on their website in my deep dark days... gave me hope when I was feeling extremely shit. Particularly to know others were surviving on little sleep like myself in those darker days. It's time, patience and very slow progress. It's a grind, but it's the little wins and positivity that will get us all through. My wins are noticing I don't monitor the sound as much everyday and think about it as little as possible.

Some days good, some days not so good, but the ultimate goal is to rid the noise - I'm hoping Lenire does this, the backup goal is habituation... good things come to those who wait.

It'll more likely reduce it, not remove it altogehter. But habituation with a less severe quieter tinnitus sound would likely be easier than with a more severe louder sound. That was the case for me exactly.

 

[El BUZZ]

I've been racking my brain trying to pin point why a) stressful period of work over months finally manifested itself in a spike (possibility) b) went on a date was near a speaker but hadn't my vibes earplugs in and the girl was half shouting in my left ear..I told her your shouting towards my ear ha ha and it was my left ear, I then put in the vibes plugs (More possible) c) was gymming for 4 months solid on a cut, lost over 12kg, drastically changed my diet, weights 3 times a week, niggling injuries in back and neck...then around the time of the spike I was 2 weeks into a bulk so changed up the diet again ..taking supplements lifting heavy etc so my body was probably crying from all the change (could be a possibility)... I can't pinpoint it though it could be something else entirely or completely spontaneous I dunno.

In the meantime I started taking some cbd this week, found it helpful my sleep has been good and I've found that metal grind has eased a good bit (I've been a little more relaxed this week too)

I need to follow up with my doc on this ENT appointment to get this ticked off before I go back for Lenire. I've been waiting for that consultant since November so that's a pain

I don't want to derail the thread but just to let you know that I just woke up to the closest to silence I've ever been since onset. I've measured my MML and my tinnitus is under half the volume it has been the last week.

How could this be?

A few days in a row with a monster spike and then for no reason it is almost silence... On its own...

 

[ChrisBoyMonkey]

I don't want to derail the thread but just to let you know that I just woke up to the closest to silence I've ever been since onset. I've measured my MML and my tinnitus is under half the volume it has been the last week.

How could this be?

A few days in a row with a monster spike and then for no reason it is almost silence... On its own...

Your brain might be trying to fix it... Have you done anything different lately?

 

[DaveFromChicago]

Thanks very much for that insightful interpretation, ChrisBoyMonkey.

After six years I now have very similar episodes that El Buzz reports; throughout the entire Xmas Eve day, I had a Personal Worst Spike that dwarfed any previous ones. For the next few days, it was astoundingly quiet. Perhaps the brain is rallying in an effort to remedy this. Or, perhaps such an equivalent to a "walking seizure" (a term that I heard applied to migraine episodes) so exhausts the brain that it cannot register such spikes for awhile.

I am visiting my ENT doctor for the usual (a hearing test, then an analysis). This group is extremely well regarded in the Chicago area, and if anyone can report the latest on when we can anticipate the availability of Lenire, Dr. Shore's device, or any other drug or treatment, they can.

My appointment is on 01/16. I will let you know if I learn anything new.