Lidocaine/Josef Rauschecker

[TuxedoCat]

It appears Josef Rauschecker may be considering a method for extending the effect of lidocaine on tinnitus. There could be some interesting avenues such as use of a pump or an injection of lidocaine in a sustained release polymer under the skin? - Something more serious than the lidocaine patch which may not amount to anything more than putting a piece of tape behind your ear! I've never had lidocaine for tinnitus, but Rauschecker is citing old literature that puts it at a 75-85% success rate. Should be a cheap drug, too. - TC

From the 2018 TINNET Conf-
ID: 259 / Session 4: 5
Abstract

New ways forward in Tinnitus Research?
Josef P. Rauschecker

...... The second approach we have been pursuing more recently is to build on the single pharmacological method that has been proven successful in suppressing tinnitus in 75-80% of cases: intravenous injection of lidocaine (Goodey, 1981). Despite its high effectiveness and relative safety, it has never been developed into routine treatment. One reason is obviously the short duration of its effect on tinnitus, and one of our goals is to extend this duration. Recent studies of chronic pain are encouraging in that respect (Challapalli et al., 2017; Daykin, 2017).

 

[glynis]

Thank you for the information.
love glynis

 

[IvanRus]

In fact, I have not been able to find obvious evidence of the efficacy of using lidocaine intravenously with tinnitus.

For example, some examples from PubMed:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9173072

Or here is a study, but here, too, not 80% of success, as some have said, and the dose is very high.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14606175

We need some kind of oral modification based on lidocaine with fewer side effects, Thanos Tzounopoulos is working in this direction.

I'm also interested in it. Has anyone here tried to apply lidocaine patches on the mastoid process (behind the ear) - does it have an effect?

We can only buy patches from one of the German-Japanese firms, and they are expensive - about $100.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

I had lidocaine treatment and it did lower my tinnitus considerably for a short term. With that very expensive drugs were used. My kidney's then needed a washout.

 

[1000]

I had lidocaine treatment and it did lower my tinnitus considerably for a short term. With that very expensive drugs were used. My kidney's then needed a washout.

Where do you get the treatment at?

 

[Johan_L]

In fact, I have not been able to find obvious evidence of the efficacy of using lidocaine intravenously with tinnitus..

Is that an established fact? Lot's of threads on the forum. Myself I have had tinnitus for 7 years. Last year i did a surgery on my shoulder with general anesthesia. When I woke up it there was silence in my ears (for a while).

 

[Greg Sacramento]

Where do you get the treatment at?

It was done in an overnight hospital visit along with some other treatment. It was difficult to get this done as for them it was about time and knowledge.

I wish that I could have been able to talk them into hospital stay after hearing loss from my dental procedure or my previous ear syringing. A success story that required a hospital stay.

http://exodontia.info/files/JOMS_2013._Sudden_Hearing_Loss_After_Dental_Treatment.pd

A little more: I'm not a Prime Minister, Congressperson or someone who's rich and famous. There's many successful treatments that can to be done with extended hospital stays. Some treatments need to be done right away and others per physical and injury can be done anytime. I have many links on successful treatment that takes a team of caregivers with knowledge. This is where awareness needs to be made, but it's going to be a lot of hard work to get healthcare and insurance companies to change their ways.

 

[jacob21]

Each time I had lidocaine injection for dental treatment it lowered my tinnitus by 80% (even more). But the effect lasted only a few hours.

 

[Matt h]

Just had Lidocaine for the 2nd time in 3 months. First time for a routine filling and noticed the effect on tinnitus straight away.

Then yesterday I had root canal treatment lasting for an hour and had 2 injections into the gum.

I got back to my van to 1/10 tinnitus, just sat in near bliss, then again at 4 in the morning it returned to normal.

I really did not want to go back to sleep because I was enjoying the quiet.

Now while writing this in a silent room my tinnitus is not bothering me at all. It's at 2/10 so I do think Lidocaine has an effect on tinnitus. Maybe only for a short window but the relief is wonderful.

I will be the only person ever looking forward to a 2nd round of root canal treatment!

 

[Racehorse]

Perhaps keeping a stash of lidocaine can come in handy. You probably have to go to Mexico to buy it though.

 

[TheDanishGirl]

I don't know if it was Lidocaine but I had anesthetics at the dentist when I had a filling done a few months after tinnitus. It had no positive effect on my tinnitus.

 

[Allan1967]

Lidocaine is what you get at the dentist right? I've noted my tinnitus goes when I've had a jab at the back of my mouth.

 

[nuno1976]

In fact, I have not been able to find obvious evidence of the efficacy of using lidocaine intravenously with tinnitus.

For example, some examples from PubMed:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9173072

Or here is a study, but here, too, not 80% of success, as some have said, and the dose is very high.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14606175

We need some kind of oral modification based on lidocaine with fewer side effects, Thanos Tzounopoulos is working in this direction.

I'm also interested in it. Has anyone here tried to apply lidocaine patches on the mastoid process (behind the ear) - does it have an effect?

We can only buy patches from one of the German-Japanese firms, and they are expensive - about $100.

Hello,

Are you talking about these patches?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07DNKNN9...&pd_rd_r=4f904912-2ecd-11e9-86bf-ad3e08606905

Where would you apply the patch? On your neck? Jaw? Below the ear?

 

[jacob21]

Hi

I tried patch with no success . However injections give me relief with immediate effect but last few hours ...

 

[grate_biff]

I had intravenous lidocaine a few days ago. It had a short term effect on my tinnitus, but the stress of the drug (dizziness) made my noxacusis worse.
Not worth it IMO.

 

[matbrz]

Hi, I just wanted to say that I work as a practitioner in a hospital in Poland. Today I had a patient that has tinnitus and doctors in my unit gives a series of 7 infusions (once a day) of 20ml 2% lidocaine with 250ml 0,9% NaCl.

The patient I talked to claimed that it reduces her tinnitus about 60-70% for about 4 months. She comes to hospital for these IV drops every 3/4 months. I'm about to talk to my senior doctor about this procedure tomorrow. Lidocaine is also antiarrhythmic drug so it has potential risk of bradycardia, but as long as your heart rate is monitored during procedure it is rather safe.

Any thoughts? I think I will try it myself.

 

[tinnitube]

Hi, I just wanted to say that I work as a practitioner in a hospital in Poland. Today I had a patient that has tinnitus and doctors in my unit gives a series of 7 infusions (once a day) of 20ml 2% lidocaine with 250ml 0,9% NaCl.

The patient I talked to claimed that it reduces her tinnitus about 60-70% for about 4 months. She comes to hospital for these IV drops every 3/4 months. I'm about to talk to my senior doctor about this procedure tomorrow. Lidocaine is also antiarrhythmic drug so it has potential risk of bradycardia, but as long as your heart rate is monitored during procedure it is rather safe.

Any thoughts? I think I will try it myself.

Hello, I'm also an MD. Please search for my posts... I also did it myself... It helped me a lot. You just have to dilute it and do it very slow.

 

[matbrz]

Did you have any long lasting effect or just temporary relief?

 

[matbrz]

So I'm starting tomorrow. The senior MD told me to bring my ECG, if you have any cardiac diseases (arrhythmias) you won't be qualified. It will be 30 ml 1% lidocaine solution in 250 ml 0,9 NaCl given in about 1 hour. 7 days in a row, she claimed that she had many patients with even 6 months remission. She gave it even to her father. My tinnitus is SSRI induced and it's 14 kHz 20 dB in right ear only, it doesn't bother me during day but sleeping is hell, it's hard to mask.

Anyone interested with daily updates?

 

[Chinmoku]

So I'm starting tomorrow. The senior MD told me to bring my ECG, if you have any cardiac diseases (arrhythmias) you won't be qualified. It will be 30 ml 1% lidocaine solution in 250 ml 0,9 NaCl given in about 1 hour. 7 days in a row, she claimed that she had many patients with even 6 months remission. She gave it even to her father. My tinnitus is SSRI induced and it's 14 kHz 20 dB in right ear only, it doesn't bother me during day but sleeping is hell, it's hard to mask.

Anyone interested with daily updates?

Very interested. Where are you based if I may ask?

 

[Sonic17]

@matbrz
I am interested in updates, sounds interesting. I can tolerate my tinnitus during the day, but sleep is near impossible for me unless I take medication (antidepressant).

I wonder if this treatment is possible in Canada.

 

[Sonic17]

@Greg Sacramento
Hello, please share the links you are referring to. I would love to find a treatment for tinnitus.

 

[matbrz]

Here we go.
1. For the first few minutes tinnitus seemed worse - probably due to stress, now it's back to baseline. I'm half way into the treatment now. I feel a little dizzy but nothing unbearable.

No side effects, but no effects on tinnitus either. Doctor says to wait at least 3 days to evaluate the effect.

 

[Chinmoku]

Can one get lidocaine in the UK for tinnitus?

 

[Greg Sacramento]

@Sonic17 I remember your history and where we talked about your fall when skiing. We had discussed herniated disc, compression and spinal nerves. If I also remember your surgeon did not think that a herniated disc caused your tinnitus. We discussed nerve entrapment and I thought that was a possibility as you mentioned that your T increases as the day went on. Since our many discussions, I noticed that you had an ear plug fall out during a MRI a few days after injury. I think that you also later mentioned some mid range frequency loss. If so, your T could have concurred with either the MRI or bone spurs and nerves at level C5 or between C5 and C6.

I would need to know what the MRI procedure involved. Was there detail frame sequences taken. MRIs don't always show all bone spurs or nerve trauma. Nerve and spurs can be touching one minute and not the next. It would also make a big difference to know if you have developed any jaw problems. Also the vertebral artery weaves thru the C spine and that needs consideration as to compression.

It's not impossible to find cause if one can give a complete history with testing notes. A problem with physical tinnitus is that we don't always remember every time that we had hit our head, twisted or hyperextend our neck, had a dental procedure where the mouth was open too long and lower jaw extended. From any of this and posture, including exposures to noise it may take years to have effect (tinnitus).

The links from above mention, have been posted since - here and there - mostly with relation to physical/somatic tinnitus with trauma to head, neck and jaw. I did post one situation where a person was hospitalized for two weeks following a loud noise exposure. He was given all sorts of drugs and later had kidney cleaning, but I question beside prednisone if any of these drugs made a difference. Lidocaine can be dangerous and effects are short lived.

If you can provide your MRI radiology written report, then maybe we might be able to see if any treatment for this might help beyond hearing loss. I do recommend trying to control extreme forward head bending. Does your T increase with computer use?

 

[matbrz]

Second infusion done. During it I had a feeling like the tinnitus increased temporary, but maybe it's just because I'm looking for effects so I put masking sound today and had a nice nap during the procedure. I'm afraid that it won't work for me because my tinnitus is CNS related and lidocaine is thought to work on acoustic nerves.

 

[matbrz]

Six infusions. I do not notice any effects on my tinnitus. However it works nicely for headaches. I think it could be an option for new onset tinnitus after noise exposure and damage before the tinnitus is centralized.

Another failed treatment for me. I have had steroid infusions, vinpocetine infusion, vit B injections and tVNS. So I'm waiting for Lenire now.

 

[Diego LR]

Can one get lidocaine in the UK for tinnitus?

Hi @Chinmoku,

Just curious if you managed to get this treatment in London. I found a clinic that is willing to do IV Lidocaine infusion for me but I'm not sure if I should try it, because it is £1050.

 

[Chinmoku]

Hi @Chinmoku,

Just curious if you managed to get this treatment in London. I found a clinic that is willing to do IV Lidocaine infusion for me but I'm not sure if I should try it, because it is £1050.

No, I got Lidocaine based nerve blocks in Seoul but I reacted badly. I didn't try IV Lidocaine in the UK. I don't think it would do much. Also, avoid it while taking benzos as they may interact.

 

[Nick47]

There is strong evidence on the Lidocaine infusions, at least short term. I was speaking to a doctor with tinnitus who knows about this but how much you would pay for 24 hours is ridiculous.