Lion's Mane Mushroom

[wwtsai]

Hoping it helps you. Report back!

It's been a little under two weeks and I haven't noticed any effects, good or bad. It could be because of the quality (Host Defense) and/or not taking Niacin in conjunction with it. Might start taking Niacin with the remaining pills.

 

[Aaron91]

My dosing protocol is this:

Lion's mane by Host Defense: 3 grams, 10 minutes before ingesting Niacin.

Dried Psilocybin mushrooms (Cubensis): 300 mg, taken at same time as Lion's Mane.

Niacin: 500 mg, ten minutes after ingesting mushrooms.

Note: adjust dosages as needed. Especially for Psilocybin and Niacin. A microdose of shrooms should cause no perceptual changes. Periodically take a break from these as tolerance quickly builds. Take enough niacin to induce a flush response. Eventually you will need to increase the dose to get a flush response. I don't know what the maximum safe dose is but I personally won't take more than a gram / day. Once I stop getting a flush response @ 1 gram, I will take a break until my tolerance goes back down.

Other supplements I take: Magnesium, Vitamin D, B complex, CBD, nigella sativa, chlorophyllin.

Other supplements that increase BDNF (brain derived neurotrophic factor) (related to NGF, nerve growth factor): organic citrus peel extract, organic xiao yao san ('san' means powder) / xiao yao wan ('wan' means pill), organic whole coffee fruit extract, organic turmeric/curcumin with black pepper/piperine, MEDITATION AND YOGA.

Has anyone else tried this combo yet?

It seems several people have tried one or two of the ingredients but not all 3 combined. If this story checks out one would think the effect is synergistic, so Lion's Mane alone or Niacin alone isn't going to cut it.

 

[Lukee]

Has anyone else tried this combo yet?

It seems several people have tried one or two of the ingredients but not all 3 combined. If this story checks out one would think the effect is synergistic, so Lion's Mane alone or Niacin alone isn't going to cut it.

Someone I spoke to said this worked for him. He had tinnitus and slight hyperacusis but I forgot to ask the cause. This person told me that his tinnitus went from a 5/10 to a 0.5-1/10 and the hyperacusis went away after a couple of weeks. He was very into shroom therapy and knew quite a bit about all things shrooms. He said Host Defense is the Walmart of the shroom world (in a bad way, low quality, high volume).

I have ordered some Lion's Mane from Oriveda, apparently they are more reputable, but I haven't received it and I obviously haven't started the stack yet. It seems like a hit or miss with this stack, either it works or it doesn't, and you'll know pretty quickly. The guy also told me he did a few macro doses and from what I can see on the forums, it seems like a macro dose is warranted to reset the brain more so than microdosing.

Keep us in the loop if you decide to try it out.

 

[GBB]

Someone I spoke to said this worked for him. He had tinnitus and slight hyperacusis but I forgot to ask the cause. This person told me that his tinnitus went from a 5/10 to a 0.5-1/10 and the hyperacusis went away after a couple of weeks. He was very into shroom therapy and knew quite a bit about all things shrooms. He said Host Defense is the Walmart of the shroom world (in a bad way, low quality, high volume).

I have ordered some Lion's Mane from Oriveda, apparently they are more reputable, but I haven't received it and I obviously haven't started the stack yet. It seems like a hit or miss with this stack, either it works or it doesn't, and you'll know pretty quickly. The guy also told me he did a few macro doses and from what I can see on the forums, it seems like a macro dose is warranted to reset the brain more so than microdosing.

Keep us in the loop if you decide to try it out.

I've tried Oriveda and Nootropics Depot, but not with Niacin and Psilocybin. Suffice it to say I'm still here, though some have gotten improvement. Hope it works for you!

 

[vttbx]

Has anyone else tried this combo yet?

It seems several people have tried one or two of the ingredients but not all 3 combined. If this story checks out one would think the effect is synergistic, so Lion's Mane alone or Niacin alone isn't going to cut it.

I've tried it and still use it. It's called the Stamets Stack, and it's popular in the micro-dosing community.

Microdosing Psilocybin Mushrooms with the Stamets Stack

I have yet to commit to the 5 days on, 2 days off schedule. I've taken it occasionally every few days over the last couple of months. So far, I've seen no improvement in my tinnitus. In fact, the day I take it, my tinnitus has a small increase, but I'm sure that is mostly due to the Niacin. I always return to baseline the next day. Even at low dosages that don't cause flushing, Niacin would give me spikes. I do plan to follow the protocol soon, but my expectations are low.

 

[Aaron91]

I've tried it and still use it. It's called the Stamets Stack, and it's popular in the micro-dosing community.

Microdosing Psilocybin Mushrooms with the Stamets Stack

I have yet to commit to the 5 days on, 2 days off schedule. I've taken it occasionally every few days over the last couple of months. So far, I've seen no improvement in my tinnitus. In fact, the day I take it, my tinnitus has a small increase, but I'm sure that is mostly due to the Niacin. I always return to baseline the next day. Even at low dosages that don't cause flushing, Niacin would give me spikes. I do plan to follow the protocol soon, but my expectations are low.

Good to know. It seems the two people who had results with this saw benefit in their hyperacusis, which is what I'm interested in this for. It wouldn't surprise me if it only helped with hyperacusis and not tinnitus as research would suggest that the underlying pathology is quite different.

For everyone else's reference, and to illustrate my earlier point that the effect may indeed be synergistic, here's a graph showing the synergistic effect of Lion's Mane with Psilocybin over the two individually. Niacin would still be needed of course to flush the Lion's Mane and Psilocybin to the body's extremities - namely, the ears.

Someone I spoke to said this worked for him. He had tinnitus and slight hyperacusis but I forgot to ask the cause. This person told me that his tinnitus went from a 5/10 to a 0.5-1/10 and the hyperacusis went away after a couple of weeks. He was very into shroom therapy and knew quite a bit about all things shrooms. He said Host Defense is the Walmart of the shroom world (in a bad way, low quality, high volume).

I have ordered some Lion's Mane from Oriveda, apparently they are more reputable, but I haven't received it and I obviously haven't started the stack yet. It seems like a hit or miss with this stack, either it works or it doesn't, and you'll know pretty quickly. The guy also told me he did a few macro doses and from what I can see on the forums, it seems like a macro dose is warranted to reset the brain more so than microdosing.

Keep us in the loop if you decide to try it out.

Would your friend be kind enough to consider making an account here so we could prod him with a few questions about his experience? I think it would be really useful to those who might consider doing this. Some of us are at the end of our tether.

 

[Lukee]

Would your friend be kind enough to consider making an account here so we could prod him with a few questions about his experience?

I only spoke to this person at the health food store. I was looking at the Lion's Mane and started talking. I wish I would've got his contact or more details but it was kind of awkward and with COVID-19 and all we were trying to be respectful of keeping some space. I just felt like in a rush.

 

[vttbx]

Good to know. It seems the two people who had results with this saw benefit in their hyperacusis, which is what I'm interested in this for. It wouldn't surprise me if it only helped with hyperacusis and not tinnitus as research would suggest that the underlying pathology is quite different.

A bigger issue with Psilocybin is accessibility for most people. I was lucky enough to find a reliable source. But what I also learned was how difficult it is grow. We are taking about a pristine and sterile environment, temperature-controlled, pH-balanced, watered on schedule. Any bacteria or mold and it gets destroyed.

 

[Aaron91]

I only spoke to this person at the health food store. I was looking at the Lion's Mane and started talking. I wish I would've got his contact or more details but it was kind of awkward and with COVID-19 and all we were trying to be respectful of keeping some space. I just felt like in a rush.

Wow, to come across someone with hyperacusis (or at least someone who had hyperacusis) "in the wild" so to speak is pretty crazy given how rare the condition is.

 

[Aaron91]

Ok, so I imagine most of us with hyperacusis are familiar with the ATP leakage theory and upregulation of P2X receptors in type II afferents. Well, here's something you may all want to dig your teeth into:

Neurohealth Properties of Hericium erinaceus Mycelia Enriched with Erinacines

"Currently, there is a growing realization that lesions to the peripheral or central nervous system could lead to neuropathic pain. Currently, both ionotropic P2X receptors and metabotropic P2Y receptors have been identified as key receptors in mediating neuropathic pain. As H. erinaceus mycelium has a crucial role in nerve regeneration via the stimulation of neurotrophic factors, the analgesic potential of this mycelium using both a P2 purinergic receptor-coupled Ca2+ signaling platform and an in vivo model was investigated. The results indicated that the extracts of H. erinaceus mycelium could completely block ATP-induced Ca2+ signaling in human HOS cells, suggesting its inhibitory potential as a modulator of pain-related P2X receptors"​

I'm thinking of starting a separate thread on this in the hyperacusis forum as this is the first piece of research I've come across that presents a plausible theory as to what may be happening in the anecdotal cases that have been reported for hyperacusis specifically.

 

[Lukee]

Wow, to come across someone with hyperacusis (or at least someone who had hyperacusis) "in the wild" so to speak is pretty crazy given how rare the condition is.

I'm starting to think that the condition is not as rare as we may believe. Tinnitus without a doubt is not rare, especially for older people but in speaking to people, I've heard a lot of people describe sensitivity to sound an awful lot. This person actually told me very sensitive ears so I took it as hyperacusis since it was along with tinnitus. He was pretty young as well, I would say under 35.

Ok, so I imagine most of us with hyperacusis are familiar with the ATP leakage theory and upregulation of P2X receptors in type II afferents. Well, here's something you may all want to dig your teeth into:

Neurohealth Properties of Hericium erinaceus Mycelia Enriched with Erinacines

"Currently, there is a growing realization that lesions to the peripheral or central nervous system could lead to neuropathic pain. Currently, both ionotropic P2X receptors and metabotropic P2Y receptors have been identified as key receptors in mediating neuropathic pain. As H. erinaceus mycelium has a crucial role in nerve regeneration via the stimulation of neurotrophic factors, the analgesic potential of this mycelium using both a P2 purinergic receptor-coupled Ca2+ signaling platform and an in vivo model was investigated. The results indicated that the extracts of H. erinaceus mycelium could completely block ATP-induced Ca2+ signaling in human HOS cells, suggesting its inhibitory potential as a modulator of pain-related P2X receptors"​

I'm thinking of starting a separate thread on this in the hyperacusis forum as this is the first piece of research I've come across that presents a plausible theory as to what may be happening in the anecdotal cases that have been reported for hyperacusis specifically.

Maybe a good idea so people looking for hyperacusis treatments can consider. The only question I have is why do many people recover partially or fully from hyperacusis over time? Generally, are nerves supposed to regenerate? I guess sometimes they do ever so slowly.

 

[Aaron91]

The only question I have is why do many people recover partially or fully from hyperacusis over time? Generally, are nerves supposed to regenerate? I guess sometimes they do ever so slowly.

It's hard to answer that question when we still can't be sure of the pathology. Nerves can heal, albeit slowly and with a lot of time.

I am a strong believer that faulty calcium channels play a big role in those of us with noxacusis, and that goes hand-in-hand with the type II afferent sensitisation theory due to ATP leakage. As a result of this ATP leakage, certain pain receptors (P2X) become upregulated. I would assume that, if this model stands, there are cases where ATP leakage stops because the calcium channels recover/self-correct/calm down (for whatever reason) in those who improve.

On the other hand, if you subscribe to a more centralised theory of pain, it's possible that the brain learns to "compensate" over time and identifies that the pain signal it is receiving is "false", although I am not aware of the brain doing that in any other known condition.

We then of course have the middle-ear theory. Perhaps some cases of noxacusis are due to inflammed/aggravated tendons and muscles in the middle ear and it's only with time that these heal. Tendons have 1/7th or so of the blood supply of muscles, so they take a lot longer to improve. This is why sportsmen/women need a lot longer to recover from a tendon injury than a muscle injury and why many treatments focus on increasing blood supply to the tendon.

Finally, we have theories that combine some or all of the above. The condition is outright bizarre.

 

[Lukee]

We then of course have the middle-ear theory. Perhaps some cases of noxacusis are due to inflammed/aggravated tendons and muscles in the middle ear and it's only with time that these heal. Tendons have 1/7th or so of the blood supply of muscles, so they take a lot longer to improve. This is why sportsmen/women need a lot longer to recover from a tendon injury than a muscle injury and why many treatments focus on increasing blood supply to the tendon.

This right here. I believe that it's possible all the theories could be correct but the tendon theory makes a lot of sense to me. Personally, when I first got tinnitus, I then developed an ETD like issue about 5 days later, then slowly some hyperacusis. Eventually over the course of a few weeks it went away even though I was working and around a lot of loud noise every day (my tinnitus wasn't noise induced).

I was careful to stay away from really loud areas but in general I was working on 80-90 dB for periods at a time. After a couple of months I had some form of otitis media and discomfort crop up and the fullness came back back a bit as well. I used an Otovent to help with the fluid in the ears and all of a sudden the hyperacusis was back along with some MEM-type, intermittent low hum.

Now I still don't know what my problem really is. I believe tinnitus due to ischemic injury from breath holds But I do have some dull aches and pains now and some weird tendonitis like symptoms in my ears that I didn't have before tinnitus. So it leads me to believe that in a sense those tendons could be injured along with the inner ear. Makes a lot of sense and maybe that's why I (and others) find some relief with anti-inflammatory like treatments.

 

[Aaron91]

This right here. I believe that it's possible all the theories could be correct but the tendon theory makes a lot of sense to me. Personally, when I first got tinnitus, I then developed an ETD like issue about 5 days later, then slowly some hyperacusis. Eventually over the course of a few weeks it went away even though I was working and around a lot of loud noise every day (my tinnitus wasn't noise induced).

I was careful to stay away from really loud areas but in general I was working on 80-90 dB for periods at a time. After a couple of months I had some form of otitis media and discomfort crop up and the fullness came back back a bit as well. I used an Otovent to help with the fluid in the ears and all of a sudden the hyperacusis was back along with some MEM-type, intermittent low hum.

Now I still don't know what my problem really is. I believe tinnitus due to ischemic injury from breath holds But I do have some dull aches and pains now and some weird tendonitis like symptoms in my ears that I didn't have before tinnitus. So it leads me to believe that in a sense those tendons could be injured along with the inner ear. Makes a lot of sense and maybe that's why I (and others) find some relief with anti-inflammatory like treatments.

I personally subscribe to the models developed by @100Hz when it comes to the middle ear. I may not be doing them justice here, but to summarise, noxious (pain) signals coming from the cochlea (when exposed to sound) leads to a flight/fight response in the amygdala/brain that causes the middle ear to tense up and become hyperactive towards sound, leading to all sorts of issues such as TTTS, which can cause other problems such as trigeminal neuralgia as the relevant nerve innervates the middle ear. These spasms/flutters cause us to be more stressed and so you then have an awful negative feedback loop. This may be why CBT/yoga/meditation has some merit in that it calms the nervous system down, but they never really seem to cure anyone with hyperacusis and I suspect that is because the underlying issue (a cochlea sending pain signals) has still not been resolved. This is where you need a drug that inhibits upregulated pain receptors or a regenerative drug to replace the faulty calcium channels (the latter is my own opinion).

In short, I think middle ear issues are a consequence of the underlying issue, which is cochlea damage and sensitivity.

 

[Lukee]

I personally subscribe to the models developed by @100Hz when it comes to the middle ear. I may not be doing them justice here, but to summarise, noxious (pain) signals coming from the cochlea (when exposed to sound) leads to a flight/fight response in the amygdala/brain that causes the middle ear to tense up and become hyperactive towards sound, leading to all sorts of issues such as TTTS, which can cause other problems such as trigeminal neuralgia as the relevant nerve innervates the middle ear. These spasms/flutters cause us to be more stressed and so you then have an awful negative feedback loop. This may be why CBT/yoga/meditation has some merit in that it calms the nervous system down, but they never really seem to cure anyone with hyperacusis and I suspect that is because the underlying issue (a cochlea sending pain signals) has still not been resolved. This is where you need a drug that inhibits upregulated pain receptors or a regenerative drug to replace the faulty calcium channels (the latter is my own opinion).

In short, I think middle ear issues are a consequence of the underlying issue, which is cochlea damage and sensitivity.

I haven't come across this theory but it makes perfect sense and fits the bill. I usually wake up with a feeling of my ears being more full/clogged and the sensitivity is way worse. Throughout the day it gets better and I generally find I'm not bothered at all in my very loud work environment. I have found that this happens with some other hyperacusis sufferers as well.

I agree with the medication but to break the loop but somehow (and possibly by supplementation) it seems like I already did it once, so I don't know why it came back. Either way I'm going to try the stack after a few anti inflammatory regimens and see how it goes.

 

[Quiet please]

Hi everyone. When I see these posts describe tinnitus along with hyperacusis, ear fullness and pain, I totally relate. My diagnosis (who really knows?) is Cochlear Endolymphatic Hydrops.

I'm expecting my Lion's Mane from UPS any minute now.

Question: Is it absolutely necessary for the Niacin to flush? Can it be a formula that says "non-flushing"?

 

[Lukee]

Hi everyone. When I see these posts describe tinnitus along with hyperacusis, ear fullness and pain, I totally relate. My diagnosis (who really knows?) is Cochlear Endolymphatic Hydrops.

I'm expecting my Lion's Mane from UPS any minute now.

Question: Is it absolutely necessary for the Niacin to flush? Can it be a formula that says "non-flushing"?

If it's non flushing, then for this purpose it is likely useless. The flush is what induces blood flow to certain regions, like the ears.

 

[Matchbox]

I personally subscribe to the models developed by @100Hz when it comes to the middle ear. I may not be doing them justice here, but to summarise, noxious (pain) signals coming from the cochlea (when exposed to sound) leads to a flight/fight response in the amygdala/brain that causes the middle ear to tense up and become hyperactive towards sound, leading to all sorts of issues such as TTTS, which can cause other problems such as trigeminal neuralgia as the relevant nerve innervates the middle ear. These spasms/flutters cause us to be more stressed and so you then have an awful negative feedback loop. This may be why CBT/yoga/meditation has some merit in that it calms the nervous system down, but they never really seem to cure anyone with hyperacusis and I suspect that is because the underlying issue (a cochlea sending pain signals) has still not been resolved. This is where you need a drug that inhibits upregulated pain receptors or a regenerative drug to replace the faulty calcium channels (the latter is my own opinion).

In short, I think middle ear issues are a consequence of the underlying issue, which is cochlea damage and sensitivity.

If the hyperacusis is due to calcium channel "leakage", and therefore nerve's committing to firing too often, there's a very easy to obtain drug to try if you haven't yet.

Gabapentin.

Used in chronic pain and for some seizure types.

I'm assuming you've probably tried it, but it'd be really easy to test and the risks are very very low.

It literally blocks calcium channels and therefore any associated nerves from firing (as often).

The name is based on its shape, it doesn't bind with any GABAA/B/C receptors meaningfully.

 

[Quiet please]

@Lukee, thanks. That does make sense. Any idea of what should the dose be for Niacin?

 

[Lukee]

@Lukee, thanks. That does make sense. Any idea of what should the dose be for Niacin?

Dosage is different for everyone and over time you become accustomed to it and the flush becomes less. You want to use the least amount to produce a good flush. For some people that is 50 mg and for others it's 200 mg. Start low and see what happens.

 

[Quiet please]

Dosage is different for everyone and over time you become accustomed to it and the flush becomes less. You want to use the least amount to produce a good flush. For some people that is 50 mg and for others it's 200 mg. Start low and see what happens.

I'll start on 50 mg of Niacin & see how I do. Any idea about how long the flushing lasts? I'm a bit nervous about the flushing. Not sure why. It's probably harmless.

 

[BuzzyBee]

I'll start on 50 mg of Niacin & see how I do. Any idea about how long the flushing lasts? I'm a bit nervous about the flushing. Not sure why. It's probably harmless.

Please let us know how the Niacin goes! I don't think the flushing lasts too long, and some people even like it.

I'd do the Niacin experiment with you, but I'm in the midst of a Pycnogenol experiment and trying to do one at a time.

 

[Lukee]

I'll start on 50 mg of Niacin & see how I do. Any idea about how long the flushing lasts? I'm a bit nervous about the flushing. Not sure why. It's probably harmless.

Again, it varies. Usually it will last 15-30 minutes. It'll feel like a sunburn for most people. I really enjoy the feeling but some people hate it. You will likely get red and blotchy all cover your body and maybe a little itchy but it goes away quickly. Depending on what you eat some days, you might not get a flush at all.

 

[Christiaan]

I'll try this experiment too. Just ordered Stamets' stack via a Dutch Smartshop (link: Sirius). I will report back after a few weeks.

 

[Quiet please]

@Lukee, thank you. NOW I'm almost looking forward to seeing how it affects me. I hope I like it too! Lol.

 

[Quiet please]

@Christiaan, lots of luck! I got my Lion's Mane yesterday, but haven't gotten my Niacin yet. So many are non-flushing type.

 

[Christiaan]

Does anybody here know if the time released version of Niacin is better than the normal version? I just found one that seems to be available on the local web.

 

[Christiaan]

@Christiaan, lots of luck! I got my Lion's Mane yesterday, but haven't gotten my Niacin yet. So many are non-flushing type.

Thanks, you too @Quiet please. It's particularly hard to find the right one, but I actually found several kinds of Niacin products from a particular brand that are not flush-free: Proviform.

Perhaps this is also available in your country?

Anyway, I'll first try the normal one (3x 100 mg a day) for the next two weeks. If that doesn't work, I'll move on to the time released version (1x 500 mg)

 

[Lukee]

Does anybody here know if the time released version of Niacin is better than the normal version? I just found one that seems to be available on the local web.

For this particular protocol I believe you want regular Niacin and not time released.

You will actually have to time the dosage for maximum efficacy; I believe you take the Lion's Mane and Psilocybin first, then Niacin 10 minutes after. A slow release wouldn't give the same effect because the flush wouldn't occur to bring the drugs into the ears and head.

In terms of finding regular Niacin, it should be very easy. It is regular B3 and usually easier to find than any other version of Niacin.

 

[Christiaan]

For this particular protocol I believe you want regular Niacin and not time released.

You will actually have to time the dosage for maximum efficacy; I believe you take the Lion's Mane and Psilocybin first, then Niacin 10 minutes after. A slow release wouldn't give the same effect because the flush wouldn't occur to bring the drugs into the ears and head.

In terms of finding regular Niacin, it should be very easy. It is regular B3 and usually easier to find than any other version of Niacin.

Thanks @Lukee.

That's a good explanation to go for the regular one. I'll follow your protocol and let you know in 2/3 weeks how things are going.