Low-Level Laser Therapy (LLLT) for Tinnitus — Experiences (Dr. Wilden, etc.)

[Nick J.]

Nice, changing the sound of T is a good sign, something is hapenning. The portuguese lady that went with me to Anne is hapeening the same, she says the T sound is not the same.

All the best.

Yaa i told my dad the same!
It sucks to have a ferry horn inside your ears ofcourse! But i think it should go away within a month or maximum 2 with this powerfull luckylaser and then his T will get more highpitch like yours and mine was/is.

But the timeframe is not that important.
He should just be very happy that he has this huge and fast respond to the treatment. Then time will do the rest by itself.

 

[Nick J.]

Do it, 2 weeks ago I was making 1 hour everyday, 650 inside the ear and 808 behind for 30 minutes and then switch. During those days and the days after T went up. So you will get some power seessiond for sure.

So how long did u treat each ear per session??

I think Anne said its 650 that normally goes behind the ear and 808 inside the ear??
But ofcourse u should do both if u have a laser yourself.

Could be this powersession that is now paying of and is lowering your T every day!
But for sure i will do this myself.
Maybe even 4-5hours the last 1-2 days i have the laser before having to return it to my dad.
I need to maximize while i can. Cuz i might go back to Florida after a month home in Denmark and this means i can only do about two powersessions.
But that should also give me a huge kick in the right direction.
If i just copy how Anne did, then i can't see how it could go wrong or have no effect.
Im so thrilled

Cheers

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

Wauw...that sounds great and pretty much like what happened to me when i was on this cruiseship.

I was writting the post and I was thinking if you had the same during those days. and now you just confirmed. Nice.
It´s nice and important that we all share our experiences. That way we can see if there is a pattern in the LLLT tretament.

A little experiment i would like u to do when u feel ready, is to totally stop with the laser for maybe 3-4 weeks, so u know the earcells have absolutly no more energy left from the laser treatment.[/QUOTE
Anne asked me the same. Stop for a wille. Two days ago I was reluctant in stoping . But now i will try to see where it goes without laser.

Cuz im not 100% sure about T not returning, if u totally stop useing the laser to keep "feeding" the cells!
Have u thought about this??

Yes, even if stops, I will keep doing it. I have the intestino to make an audigram when I feel is gone or almost gone. And the keep doing the LLLT and see 6 months after. or even one year.

Maybe the cells that was collapsed and made the T, had there normal ATP powerplant destroyed and now only works when fed by light!?
Have u read anything about this theory??

I don´t think that makes sense. The powerplant is the part of the cell that produces the energy for the cell. if no powerplant then no energy , no ernergy no regeneration ( or reparative with is a term used as well) The light of the Laser when reaches the cell mitochondria is when they produce the energy. But maybe cells will no longer be as strong as they used to be. Just wondering.

Check this video:


and this one:

 

[dboy]

For u to be sure the spike or change in T volume or another sound popping up is due to LLLT, i would say it had to be within a few hours of treatment.

Yes, at first I thought that a 2 day gap made it unlikely the LLLT was the culprit and I was sure it was the car journey/ear plug. I only started to worry when it did not go away for so long.

i would get small spikes every time i treated behind te ears...Are u still doing that as a part of your protocol??

I'm not treating at all at the moment. Probably restart soon though. I'm enjoying the spike being over too much to start again straight away. Before the spike I was treating behind the ear sometimes but not always. I never got those little spikes and extra noises you described. I find the behind the ear uncomfortable 'cos I've got some arthritis issues.

About this high spike of yours....
Im thinking it might could come as a part of airpreasure in the car.

Maybe. I always get very high t after a long train journey, but then normal the next day. I thought maybe the earplug pushed some wax against my eardrum or something, but then the spike was definitely in both ears. Anyway, it is over now, thank goodness!

Anyway...sounds more and more to me, like u need a really powerfull treatment to kickstart the hole thing.
Cuz u are really not responding like u should by this homelaser imo.

You may well be right. I am not sure I can justify the expense though in case it did not work. My money is also my family's and there is not much of it - I hope you understand. I worry that my t might just not be susceptible to LLLT.

Thanks a lot for your help and advice Nick, and good luck with getting your own t back under control. Do you think there is any chance your recent increase is just a spike and might calm down again soon?

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

So how long did u treat each ear per session??

I was treating just one ear.

Could be this powersession that is now paying of and is lowering your T every day!

I really can´t tell, cause two weeks before I made 6 days at Anne. So maybe was the two together and of corse you have to remember is my 3rd power laser in 8 months plus a steam cell tretament. For sure we have to take all that in account, but more and more I´m convinde that 30 mW laser are a waist of time. You need power laser treatments and then stop for a wille and then again. My felling is that buying a laser lower than the Lucky Laser ( or similar) is a waist of money, if you want to get cured faster ( but who doesn´t) you need to have some power laser for sure.

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

@dboy
At least you got a reaction, i fell that is a good sign, that maybe LLLT can work for you. I keep talking about the portuguese lady that went to Norway with me, and I´m tracking her T as well, she doesn´t speak inglish so pretty much I´m putting here what happens to her. When she started the LLLT , she notice a small decline on her T but no "spikes " at all. Since coming for Norway and is now a month her T it´s been louder than before as well, But when it´s low it´s lower than it used to be, and then gets louder again. So once again we have a patern here. I think my reaction, @dboy reaction and Paula ( portuguese lady) confirms that before the T goes down it does have a time before where it goes up. Like Hansi says in is Blog. And I think then with time the better moments start to be more and longer than the worst moments. Hope I made my self clear. I remember 2/3 weeks ago I had some times with no T for some brief moments, then those moments start to be longer and more time.
So hope you keep doing it as much you can, and keep as posted.
Nice chat today and lot of news.

 

[Nick J.]

I really can´t tell, cause two weeks before I made 6 days at Anne. So maybe was the two together and of corse you have to remember is my 3rd power laser in 8 months plus a steam cell tretament. For sure we have to take all that in account, but more and more I´m convinde that 30 mW laser are a waist of time. You need power laser treatments and then stop for a wille and then again. My felling is that buying a laser lower than the Lucky Laser ( or similar) is a waist of money, if you want to get cured faster ( but who doesn´t) you need to have some power laser for sure.

The timeframe until u start getting these drops in T, fits pretty much with mine after the visit to Anne.
About 3 weeks after, was when it started getting lower and lower each day really fast.
But hard to say for a fact. There is no doubt in my mind, that all those different wavelength she uses, plays a huge role in the fast healing we both expirenced.
But the Lucky laser is for sure gonna make a huge difference over time also.
I agree with u about the 30mW.

 

[Nick J.]

Maybe. I always get very high t after a long train journey, but then normal the next day. I thought maybe the earplug pushed some wax against my eardrum or something, but then the spike was definitely in both ears. Anyway, it is over now, thank goodness!

There are always loud noise near or inside trains and definitly high airpressure from time to time when going under a bridge for example. So i think that might be it and def not the earplugs.

You may well be right. I am not sure I can justify the expense though in case it did not work. My money is also my family's and there is not much of it - I hope you understand. I worry that my t might just not be susceptible to LLLT.

Im pretty sure its susceptible to LLLT.
I just think u need a kickstart. Both me and Fernando had this and are responding great.
Those i have read about in here that had no respond from LLLT, were those who just started out doing low power LLLT from either koftech/tinnitool or MLS.
I wish i could test my laser on u to see if it would make a difference.

Did u live in ireland u said??
Cuz im planning on going there in a few month from now, playing poker in Dublin.
If so, i could try bring the lucky laser and give u a Zap if u could meet me there!?

Reminds me of a joke.... "Are u from ireland?? Cuz my penis is dublin in size every time i look at u" hehe

 

[dboy]

@FERNANDO GIL Thanks very much for those encouraging words. I'll do some more treatment with the MLS and see how it goes. I can handle shorter spikes but that one got a bit tedious and I did start to worry it would not go down again.

@Nick J. that is an incredibly generous offer. I am in Wales, a little village on the coast. I'll have a think and investigate how easy it would be to get to Dublin. I wouldn't want to put you off your game though!

 

[Nick J.]

that is an incredibly generous offer. I am in Wales, a little village on the coast. I'll have a think and investigate how easy it would be to get to Dublin. I wouldn't want to put you off your game though!

It would be no big deal to me if u could just show up where im staying and then u could have a couple of hours treatment and if u found a cheap room somewhere, u could have a go the day after aswell.
But ill let u know more when im getting there. Cuz nothing is sure yet. But it would be my pleasure to let u try it.
Cuz then u would pretty much know if this stuff works on you or not and then u can plan whats next, once u get some more money.

 

[dboy]

@Nick J. I would definitely have to stay over. It would be a several hours trip just to get to where the ferry departs in Holyhead. The part of Wales where we live does not have much infrastructure (but is very beautiful). Leave it with me and give me a nudge nearer the time when you know your plans. I really appreciate the offer though, that is seriously cool.

 

[bwspot]

@FERNANDO GIL @Nick J.
How much time you need with the lucy laser to see the improvement in low frequencies like 4K?
Is this something that happens quickly after 1, 2 treatments or it takes longer?

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

@FERNANDO GIL @Nick J.
How much time you need with the lucy laser to see the improvement in low frequencies like 4K?
Is this something that happens quickly after 1, 2 treatments or it takes longer?

I realy can´t tell.
All we know is the low frequencies heal faster that high frequencies. I think as well that if you have a drop on a frequency and the two at side are Ok, that would be faster, than for example you have a drop in the really low or in a really high. The reason I think is cause cells tend to regenerate "helped" by good cells around her. So you will have help on the regeneration for the two sides. See the exemple. I´m putting. Concerning time, is once again the one million dollar question. But you can have an idea here at Sun Blog.

https://healingmenieres.wordpress.com/audiogram-results/
Since Lucky Laser is more powerfull then the one she was using from dr Wilden, I feel that maybe it can be faster, but once again, YOU HAVE TO PROTECT YOUR EARS, other wise could take longer. But after a fere times you will start to fell better.

Hope I helped.

Sheers

 

[bwspot]

I realy can´t tell.
All we know is the low frequencies heal faster that high frequencies. I think as well that if you have a drop on a frequency and the two at side are Ok, that would be faster, than for example you have a drop in the really low or in a really high. The reason I think is cause cells tend to regenerate "helped" by good cells around her. So you will have help on the regeneration for the two sides. See the exemple. I´m putting. Concerning time, is once again the one million dollar question. But you can have an idea here at Sun Blog.

https://healingmenieres.wordpress.com/audiogram-results/
Since Lucky Laser is more powerfull then the one she was using from dr Wilden, I feel that maybe it can be faster, but once again, YOU HAVE TO PROTECT YOUR EARS, other wise could take longer. But after a fere times you will start to fell better. View attachment 5183
Hope I helped.

Sheers

Thx I was curious how was your experience. I am currently doing the treatment at Anne's clinic and so far after two days I don't feel much. Seems like my body did not react to it yet. She is a great person and everyone there is very nice.

 

[Nick J.]

@FERNANDO GIL @Nick J.
How much time you need with the lucy laser to see the improvement in low frequencies like 4K?
Is this something that happens quickly after 1, 2 treatments or it takes longer?

Thats not really possible to predict.
Some times im gueesing about this stuff when its about myself, because i know myself now when it comes to respons to LLLT.
But it depends on age, size of damage, way of damage, protection during the day, possibly food/supplyment intake, time since damage, ect. ect.

It also depends on how many hours a day u use it at home and how well u point the probes in the correct position during treatment and maybe also on how long breaks u take in between these sessions.

So pretty much imposible to say basicly.

 

[bwspot]

Little update.
4 days of treatment so far with different lasers.
So far not much of a response but I started to feel little increase in my tinnitus and I hear different clicks from time to time. This morning I woke up with very thin tinnitus. I spoke with Anne about laser selection and she claims that every case is individual and not every laser works for everyone the same so there is little trial and error here. Also she says that cell response to laser is much weaker for the first time but the reaction gets better and quicker over time.

 

[linearb]

Little update.
I spoke with Anne about laser selection and she claims that every case is individual and not every laser works for everyone the same so there is little trial and error here.

This sets off alarm bells for me because it's the epitome of something which is not fact based and therefore is not possible to prove or disprove.

Also she says that cell response to laser is much weaker for the first time but the reaction gets better and quicker over time.

I see. Does she have a bunch of peer reviewed research backing this up, specifically with regards to human cilia cells?

 

[bwspot]

Everyone wants to hear it is 100% bullet proof but unfortunaltely like with every treatment people respond in different ways. I hope to respond well. I had tons of back problems in the past and all specialist i saw could never help me until I decided to do it myself and do everything against what they were saying and it worked.

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

Little update.
4 days of treatment so far with different lasers.
So far not much of a response but I started to feel little increase in my tinnitus and I hear different clicks from time to time. This morning I woke up with very thin tinnitus. I spoke with Anne about laser selection and she claims that every case is individual and not every laser works for everyone the same so there is little trial and error here. Also she says that cell response to laser is much weaker for the first time but the reaction gets better and quicker over time.

Good to know you got some reaction, let´s see how it works in the next weeks. All the best.

 

[attheedgeofscience]

This sets off alarm bells for me because it's the epitome of something which is not fact based and therefore is not possible to prove or disprove.

Actually not. What she is referring to is probably the so-called optical therapeutic window (which spans over a range of wavelengths in the red and near-infrared wavelength spectrum):

 

[1MW]

what difference has dr wilden laser 650nm & 808nm 100mw from
lasers i have got from ebay at the same wavelength and same power ?

 

[bwspot]

Little update.
4 days of treatment so far with different lasers.
So far not much of a response but I started to feel little increase in my tinnitus and I hear different clicks from time to time. This morning I woke up with very thin tinnitus. I spoke with Anne about laser selection and she claims that every case is individual and not every laser works for everyone the same so there is little trial and error here. Also she says that cell response to laser is much weaker for the first time but the reaction gets better and quicker over time.

The words "trial and error" is my own interpretation. Sorry if this is confusing.
Because people ear might respond to one nanometer but not the other for me it was like a trial and error as no tools exist to measure exactly which laser should be used for which individual. That is why it is good to try many different nanometers, but the end results might vary. Different resources shows which nanometers is used for which frequency but I am not sure how true it is. You might ask directly LLLT practitioners as they have better knowledge to explain that, so dont rely on my explanation as I am not a LLLT professional and my interpretation might be incorrect. Above post by @attheedgeofscience is much better explanation of what I was trying to say.

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

what difference has dr wilden laser 650nm & 808nm 100mw from
lasers i have got from ebay at the same wavelength and same power ?

Hi
I think is the construction quality.
But I never saw a laser, from dr Wilden with 808 at 100 mW, if so sorry.

Sheers

 

[Zechariah]

I realy can´t tell.
All we know is the low frequencies heal faster that high frequencies. I think as well that if you have a drop on a frequency and the two at side are Ok, that would be faster, than for example you have a drop in the really low or in a really high. The reason I think is cause cells tend to regenerate "helped" by good cells around her. So you will have help on the regeneration for the two sides. See the exemple. I´m putting. Concerning time, is once again the one million dollar question. But you can have an idea here at Sun Blog.

https://healingmenieres.wordpress.com/audiogram-results/
Since Lucky Laser is more powerfull then the one she was using from dr Wilden, I feel that maybe it can be faster, but once again, YOU HAVE TO PROTECT YOUR EARS, other wise could take longer. But after a fere times you will start to fell better. View attachment 5183
Hope I helped.

Sheers

Hi, what is the science behind this that healthy cells on "both sides" help with regeneration? After all there is thousands of hair cells and there is no absolute boundaries where you meet only dead cells/exhausted cells or healthy ones. There may be damaged cells between healthy ones and vice versa.

And why should healthy hair cells to help damaged hair cells to regenerate in the first place?

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

There may be damaged cells between healthy ones and vice versa.

Hi Zach, sorry if my English is not so good so I can´t express better. What yousaid right is correct, and that is what I pretende to say.

And why should healthy hair cells to help damaged hair cells to regenerate in the first place?

Cause is the natural way of our body to heal. When you have a wound, and it start to heal, is from the outside to the inside. The "good" cells help to promote the "regeneration " or "repair" ( call it what you think is more correct) of the closer cells. That´s why we say " our wound is closing" . And if you see the audiograms of the people doing LLLT the process of healling is pretty much the same for everybody. The good cells, get better first , and then the cells close to the already "regenerated, repaired" cells start to heal. That´s why usual the sound change. My T sound now is diferent from the sound I had one year ago, the lower frequencies are now healed so the sound I have now is for the high frequencies.

Sheers

 

[mrgrey]

Just got done with high dose laser treatment, 808 nm 450mw 2 hours a day for 5 days straight from a laser clinic here in the US. Just wanted to see if I should follow up with home laser?

Before audiogram (Right ear )
250hz 10db
500hz 45db
1000hz 20db
2000hz 5 db
3000hz 10db
4000hz 10db
6000hz 15db

Left ear
250hz 0 db
500hz 5 db
1000hz 10 db
2000hz 10db
3000hz 5 db
4000hz 10db
6000hz 20db

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

Just got done with high dose laser treatment, 808 nm 450mw 2 hours a day for 5 days straight from a laser clinic here in the US. Just wanted to see if I should follow up with home laser?

Before audiogram (Right ear )
250hz 10db
500hz 45db
1000hz 20db
2000hz 5 db
3000hz 10db
4000hz 10db
6000hz 15db

Left ear
250hz 0 db
500hz 5 db
1000hz 10 db
2000hz 10db
3000hz 5 db
4000hz 10db
6000hz 20db

Nice.
In my opinion, ( and is just an opiniom) , depending on the price you paid for those 5 days. (In the end the money is importante as well) I would wait a 2/3 weeks to see how you reacting to the treatement .Maybe do it again for 5 days, and if you see any progress then go ahead with buying a home laser. The Lucky Laser can give you that as well, and you can do it at home. It would be important to see the rest of your audiogram. Why only till 6 000 hz?

 

[mrgrey]

Nice.
Why only till 6 000 hz?

I forgot to include 8k hz, which the audiologist only got to.

Right ear 8k 25db

Left ear 8k 15db

 

[Rube]

Just got done with high dose laser treatment, 808 nm 450mw 2 hours a day for 5 days straight from a laser clinic here in the US. Just wanted to see if I should follow up with home laser?

Before audiogram (Right ear )
250hz 10db
500hz 45db
1000hz 20db
2000hz 5 db
3000hz 10db
4000hz 10db
6000hz 15db

Left ear
250hz 0 db
500hz 5 db
1000hz 10 db
2000hz 10db
3000hz 5 db
4000hz 10db
6000hz 20db

Would you mind sharing the name and location of the U.S. clinic where you received the treatment?

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

I forgot to include 8k hz, which the audiologist only got to.

Right ear 8k 25db

Left ear 8k 15db

Tonks, if possible and if you have a chance try to make till 16mHz. or at least till 12Mz.
Hope all goes well from here on.

Sheers