Low-Level Laser Therapy (LLLT) for Tinnitus — Experiences (Dr. Wilden, etc.)

[FERNANDO GIL]

@FERNANDO GIL , I was told it would be $202 for shipping costs for the Lucky Laser. Is this what you paid for shipping? oh my gosh, so expensive. I have shipped to China before and it was no where near that expensive. Do you know why this is the case?

Hello
I got it wille I was there, so no cost.
But I know is a big protective box, so maybe you paying for the size. Try to see if it express, some times taking 3 extra days or a week time the prices drop a lot.

Hope I helped.

Fernando

 

[Nick J.]

@FERNANDO GIL , I was told it would be $202 for shipping costs for the Lucky Laser. Is this what you paid for shipping? oh my gosh, so expensive. I have shipped to China before and it was no where near that expensive. Do you know why this is the case?

My dad had to pay 168$ to denmark.
So your price is most likely correct.

 

[CarrieLee]

LuLu said it is express shipping so it costs more. You can ask for regular shipping. I have ordered it and paid $202 shipping cost.

@Nick J. , How is your progress after that setback from cruise ship? Hope you are doing better.
@FERNANDO GIL How are you feeling after Anne's treatment? I told one of my friends with T about Anne and he contacted her. He is planning a trip to visit her. I also plan to visit her in May. I am learning to take it easy on myself and relax since I am sometimes anxious by the increased T during the treatment. I am told it is a good thing. Hehe...

I have a question. I increased Luci use to one hour for 4 weeks according to Amon. He now told me to go back to half hour a day. I wonder if I treat it for longer time will be more beneficial. Not sure. Amon does not seem to recommend it. What do you think?

I am getting a new audiogram up to 12,000 hz tomorrow. Don't expect much but think at least I can keep it to compare the progress. Thank you in advance for your answers.

 

[CarrieLee]

The T is up and down for me. Some days it is low and some days it goes up more. I feel the sound seems a bit more fainter. I notice in the morning T is the lowest and it tends to increase at night. do you experience the same?

 

[CarrieLee]

Attached my audiograms done at Amon's. It is a positive response. I did get a higher T right away after his treatments. Getting a new one tomorrow.

 

[marqualler]

Just out of curiosity--how do you guys know that any positive results you are getting are because of LLLT? I have an audiogram from October 2014 when I first got T and one in January 2015 and the results are much better in January than they were in October. I really did nothing therapeutically to treat either of my ears.

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

@FERNANDO GIL How are you feeling after Anne's treatment? I told one of my friends with T about Anne and he contacted her. He is planning a trip to visit her. I also plan to visit her in May. I am learning to take it easy on myself and relax since I am sometimes anxious by the increased T during the treatment. I am told it is a good thing. Hehe...

It´s bem some days I wanted to writte something. So her it goes.
After last tretament, i did not make LLLT for a few days, a week maybe. When i started again I was doing 1/2 hour with one probe at the time, one in each ear. Then I stopoed again during the weekend . During this time T was up and down and one or two days were it was very good. Last week I restarted and low the time to 50 minutes ( 25 minutes with 650 in my ear and 808 on back of the ear, after 25 minutes I switch, 808 inside the ear and 650 on the back of the ear) and the result was.....an AC/DC concert inside my head for 3 days. This last weekend was lower, but still higher than usual, monday was lower , and yesterday and today were very good days. I decided to make only one probe again during some time now. So I think this confirm that the T goes up before going down. No concerto for a wille.

I notice as well that the sound is getting thinner, maybe from now on will be very dificult to notice.

Yesterday I need it to make a car trip, and during some time even when I tried i could not listen the T. So I feel i´m on the right track.
Sheers

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

Just out of curiosity--how do you guys know that any positive results you are getting are because of LLLT? I have an audiogram from October 2014 when I first got T and one in January 2015 and the results are much better in January than they were in October. I really did nothing therapeutically to treat either of my ears

Nice. That´s good news anyway.
Two questions:
1-Your T decreased?
2- Did you make then in the same machine?

Is fully possible, it did happen to me, i did restore some part of my hearing during 6 months on the 8 Mhz. I think is possible to restore your hearing naturaly, maybe some vitamis and a healthy life helps for sure. I think the problem is when your problem is on the high frequencies, for that I think is only possible with LLLT or even Steam Cell. But is great you had it.

Sheers

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

I have a question. I increased Luci use to one hour for 4 weeks according to Amon. He now told me to go back to half hour a day. I wonder if I treat it for longer time will be more beneficial. Not sure. Amon does not seem to recommend it. What do you think?

That is the one million dólar question.... as someone that have more experience than all of us. I can only say to follow what he says. With time you will understand if you need more time or should relax your cells for some time.

Sheers

 

[marqualler]

Nice. That´s good news anyway.
Two questions:
1-Your T decreased?
2- Did you make then in the same machine?

Is fully possible, it did happen to me, i did restore some part of my hearing during 6 months on the 8 Mhz. I think is possible to restore your hearing naturaly, maybe some vitamis and a healthy life helps for sure. I think the problem is when your problem is on the high frequencies, for that I think is only possible with LLLT or even Steam Cell. But is great you had it.

Sheers

My T has decreased somewhat over time but moreso my hearing has gotten better. In my case I had an ear infection in both ears that I suspect decreased my hearing that improved slowly as the effects of the ear infection wore off. My audiograms were not conducted on the same machine but were thoroughly completed by different audiologists. I guess my main question is how can you tell that your hearing thresholds have improved because of LLLT and not due to other factors.

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

My T has decreased somewhat over time but moreso my hearing has gotten better. In my case I had an ear infection in both ears that I suspect decreased my hearing that improved slowly as the effects of the ear infection wore off. My audiograms were not conducted on the same machine but were thoroughly completed by different audiologists. I guess my main question is how can you tell that your hearing thresholds have improved because of LLLT and not due to other factors.

If you see my audigrams, my hearing is better in all frequencies, on the lowers, (did not make any audiogram for high since August 2014), then it was before doing LLLT. So I did restore my hearing, and even got better in all lower frequencies. As I said, you can restore naturaly, but I don´t think you will get better hearing than before you had your problem. Hope you understand what I mean?

 

[Nick J.]

How is your progress after that setback from cruise ship? Hope you are doing better.

Still no improvement
Its almost as bad as in the beginning.
But im gonna be back home next thursday and will start useing my dads Lucky laser....if he is willing to let it go for a week once in a while.

 

[mansi]

hello everywhere
I got dramatic news of Anne Harila, so I find it very important to inform you.
Anne Harila needs help to defend herself against arbitrary government.
Here can you get all informations: http://www.gofundme.com/jh224k

mansi

 

[mrgrey]

Hey yall,

Anyone have any experience/info with David Rindge out of Melbourn Florida. It looks like he is an Acupuncturist with some laser experience.

From the pictures, it looks like he uses a Unilaser (Danish) which the specs are 450mw/808nm.

Thinking it might be worth a try instead of flying to Europe, just wanted to see if anyone had any information about his clinic????


Here is his site
http://cooperativemedicine.com/laser-therapy/ear-disorders/

 

[felinefine]

What does Dr. Wilden or Anne say about music ear buds? Are there any "safer" ear buds that they say are an option for short-term use like at the gym (maybe one hour a day?) I know there are some that block out noise and that go up to 85 db. Are these ok to use? How about while going through LLLT therapy (because I know LLLT therapy can go on for several years or so. Thank you!

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

hello everywhere
I got dramatic news of Anne Harila, so I find it very important to inform you.
Anne Harila needs help to defend herself against arbitrary government.
Here can you get all informations: http://www.gofundme.com/jh224k

mansi

Yes
The Noywegian governem says she can make the treataments, but she can not promote what she does. But for what I know is been a long history since she started. She told me that some year ago a newspaper posted an "non existent interview with her" where of corse LLLT was the main point of that interview. The fact is that the intervew never happened and everything was false. She told me she tried to call the journalist and the news paper never answered her phone. Then she decide to go to the near hotel and call from the hotel. That time they answered, she said the intervew was fake and will put them in court. Of corse she won and they had to say in the same newspaper that the intervew was false. But as she keep saying , the laser are strongers than them. Hope she manages to work out things.

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

What does Dr. Wilden or Anne say about music ear buds? Are there any "safer" ear buds that they say are an option for short-term use like at the gym (maybe one hour a day?)

As soon you start the laser avoid noise at all cost, in my opinion,specialy in the firas months, you can do gym without noise....but yes you can buy good ear plugs that protect your ears.

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

Hey yall,

Anyone have any experience/info with David Rindge out of Melbourn Florida. It looks like he is an Acupuncturist with some laser experience.

From the pictures, it looks like he uses a Unilaser (Danish) which the specs are 450mw/808nm.

Thinking it might be worth a try instead of flying to Europe, just wanted to see if anyone had any information about his clinic????


Here is his site
http://cooperativemedicine.com/laser-therapy/ear-disorders/

Hi
For what I saw looks ok. See the costs and what the tretament plan.
Sheers

 

[felinefine]

Thank you @FERNANDO GIL

You said avoid noise at all cost. When am I able to listen to music earphones again? Never?

Thank you!!

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

Of corse you can ear, but the longer you rest your ears the best, at least till you are cured or felling better. I´m saying only for your good.
That is the reason why Anne do never comprimise saying LLLT can cure, Cause after people make the tretament she doesn´t know what they do after. Your cells will be weaker when you start the LLLT, so for a wille you should avoid as much noise as possible. Remember that now they are a regenerating, so are weaker. See what happen to Jay.

 

[Nick J.]

Just a quick update on my situation.
After i nearly felt like 80-90% cured from T after only 3 month of LLLT and then pissed it all away in 15min. during a party wearing earplugs, im now trying my best to get back up to my previous state of healing.
But not much have happened yet. This to me, might be because i only have Wildens laser and the huge improvement iv had, was from clinicstreatment both times.
First time by Wilden himself in ibiza and the thing i noticed there inside my ears, left me with no doubt that LLLT was the right approach.
But my biggest (by fare) improvement, came from the treatment in Norway by Anne. But only after about 3 weeks after her treatment, did the effect start taking place.
Im leaving USA to go home in a few days and this sunday. I will be able to loan my farthers Luckylaser and start up a powertreatment almost like the one given to me in Norway. Im still gonna miss out on some of the strange wavelength Anne has. But atleast i will now be able to treat with 808nm which i think is very important and also with 650nm which is much stronger then the 650nm from the MLS.
So i cant wait.
Im planning on doing 5-7 days of 2-3 hours every day where i mix it up with the probes. Inside and behind the ears and then im taking atleast a week off from LLLT when im done.

My dad has been useing it for about 3 days now and he told me of serveral new sounds in his ears.
One beeing a ferry horn (jeeez)... But he also has a HUGE drop in the low tones on one ear. So this makes perfect sence.
Anyway...will update when i start up on the Lucky laser!

 

[mansi]

Please, have a look at this address http://www.tinnituspatient.de/ukindex.htm .
The following is there documented:
PUBMED - the U.S. National Library of Medicine shows the effectiveness of soft laser in inner ear disorders.
The problem is to find the right doses because there are so many different parameters to define the beam. And each patient is a special case. This is explained by 2009 University of Massachusetts: BIPHASIC DOSE RESPONSE IN LOW LEVEL LIGHT THERAPY.

Mansi

 

[Nick J.]

Please, have a look at this address http://www.tinnituspatient.de/ukindex.htm .
The following is there documented:
PUBMED - the U.S. National Library of Medicine shows the effectiveness of soft laser in inner ear disorders.
The problem is to find the right doses because there are so many different parameters to define the beam. And each patient is a special case. This is explained by 2009 University of Massachusetts: BIPHASIC DOSE RESPONSE IN LOW LEVEL LIGHT THERAPY.

Mansi

MANY positive studies like this one have been made and who benefits from that??
Are small companies that sells laser behind these studies, so the can potentailly sell a few 1000 laser more a year if the are lucky??
Would it even be worth the time and money, now that nobody has really been taking this stuff serious for the past 40-50 years, even if it clearly shows an effect in cells when it comes to healing in wounds, just to bring up one example.??

MANY negative studies or studies that shows little or NO effect at all by LLLT have also been made.
Who might benefit from that??
Would huge companies who makes billions each year on hearingaids and things alike, have anything to gain by paying "scientists" to make studies that are doomed to fail in regards to LLLT??
Have we ever heard about such things going on before, where huge sums of money are on the line and big shareholders behind it.???
Or what about paying doctors, who then can spam the internet with stupid questions and bringing doubt to all of it?? Cuz its not like a merical cure. U need to put in alot of work and time for LLLT to work.
So its pretty effective to have a few of those kind of people popping up here and there and start asking questions that are ment to muddy the water and bring confusion and doubt.
It only takes like one or two persons with a fancy degree behind them, to bring doubt about it all on a few major internetsites like this one, and then people searching for info about LLLT will then at one point comes across all there silly claims and give it credit, just because the have a fancy degree or can call thenselfs "Doctor know it all."

I have seen this in regards to many other issues on the internet during all my years.
Its sad, but most people fall for this trick.
Thats why i believe LLLT is not used more then it already is and why goverments or institutions within the goverment (paid by big companies ofcourse) are trying to bring down people like Anne in Norway or how the did to Wilden, forceing him to move out of his home country, if he wanted to be able to continue his lifework.

Sick sick world.
But money is all that matters!
Not that u and i get well in the best and optimal way as possible.
Thats why i say these trolls needs to be ignored, even if the try to sound like the are ooohh so helpfull and want every one the best!

 

[mansi]

I agree with your statements @Nick J.

Yes, we know many positive and negative studies, and some of them are manipulated.

There is no doubt that LLLT gives the cells the power to regenerate as proved in many cases.
The problem is to find the right doses for the nerve cells of the inner ear because there are so many different parameters to define the beam and the application times. And each patient is a special case.
Therefore it is much easier, to produce a study with no effect than a study with effect.

Here is explained the difficulties to define the right LLLT:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2790317/

This is also the main-problem when using a homelaser.

mansi

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

ut atleast i will now be able to treat with 808nm which i think is very important and also with 650nm which is much stronger then the 650nm from the MLS.
So i cant wait.
Im planning on doing 5-7 days of 2-3 hours every day where i mix it up with the probes. Inside and behind the ears and then im taking atleast a week off from LLLT when im done.

Do it, 2 weeks ago I was making 1 hour everyday, 650 inside the ear and 808 behind for 30 minutes and then switch. During those days and the days after T went up. So you will get some power seessiond for sure.

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

My dad has been useing it for about 3 days now and he told me of serveral new sounds in his ears.
One beeing a ferry horn (jeeez)... But he also has a HUGE drop in the low tones on one ear. So this makes perfect sence.
Anyway...will update when i start up on the Lucky laser!

Nice, changing the sound of T is a good sign, something is hapenning. The portuguese lady that went with me to Anne is hapeening the same, she says the T sound is not the same.

All the best.

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

I posted in another threath but wanted to share......

"Just to let you know, that i´m felling better everyday, Times to times it happens. since last weekend when I had two days with high T, it´s been coming down everyday. Funny how it´ the same T volume for some time and then sudenly in a few days the T sound just drop. And you notice day to day. For this last 5/6 days everyday I wake up I note is lower than the day before. Yesterday I could say my T was almost gone, during big part of the day it was really low. This mornning was low as well, it is up now at the end of the day. Just doing 15 minuts of LLLT and not everyday, actualy it´s been 3 days i din´t make. I will give time till end of the week, see how it goes, and then get back in full force during next week. "

Sheers all.

 

[dboy]

Here is my update:

I've not been doing LLLT for a while. I had a spike a few weeks ago. It started on a Sunday after a 4hr car journey with ear plugs. I had not done LLLT since the Friday night (weekend off). At first I did not associate it with the LLLT so continued Mon-Fri that week. Then the spike was still there so I gave LLLT a break in case that was contributing. The spike continued for about 4 weeks total (my longest). I alternated between thinking it was nothing to do with LLLT, thinking LLLT had gone wrong, and hoping it was the worsening before things started getting better.

Anyway, the spike has been gone about a week now. Indeed I had a couple of days last week when the tinnitus was softer and more tolerable than it has been for 18 months or so since I had a big permanent increase. But those good days have not continued and it is now stabilised at about where it was before the spike. I have not restarted home treatment yet (just wanted to keep an eye on things without complicating the picture).

Any thoughts are welcome. It still is not clear that the spike was caused by LLLT (although it might have been). I do remember thinking in that car journey that one ear plug had gone in further than it usually would, so it is possible that this is the cause.

 

[Nick J.]

I posted in another threath but wanted to share......

"Just to let you know, that i´m felling better everyday, Times to times it happens. since last weekend when I had two days with high T, it´s been coming down everyday. Funny how it´ the same T volume for some time and then sudenly in a few days the T sound just drop. And you notice day to day. For this last 5/6 days everyday I wake up I note is lower than the day before. Yesterday I could say my T was almost gone, during big part of the day it was really low. This mornning was low as well, it is up now at the end of the day. Just doing 15 minuts of LLLT and not everyday, actualy it´s been 3 days i din´t make. I will give time till end of the week, see how it goes, and then get back in full force during next week. "

Sheers all.

Wauw...that sounds great and pretty much like what happened to me when i was on this cruiseship.
A little experiment i would like u to do when u feel ready, is to totally stop with the laser for maybe 3-4 weeks, so u know the earcells have absolutly no more energy left from the lasertreatment.
This will prove if the earcells are now able to funktion by themselfs or if the will slowly start to collaps again and make the old T come back.
But ofcourse u should not do this while u have this momentum of lower and lower T every day.
But once u feel like this momentum is over and your T is almost gone for most of the day, then this could be a good time to test it and then at the same time give the ears a really long break!
Cuz im not 100% sure about T not returning, if u totally stop useing the laser to keep "feeding" the cells!
Have u thought about this??

Cuz who knows?
Maybe the cells that was collapsed and made the T, had there normal ATP powerplant destroyed and now only works when fed by light!?
Have u read anything about this theory??

Im gonna make this test of 3-4weeks break, once i get back to 80-90% cured again.

 

[Nick J.]

Here is my update:

I've not been doing LLLT for a while. I had a spike a few weeks ago. It started on a Sunday after a 4hr car journey with ear plugs. I had not done LLLT since the Friday night (weekend off). At first I did not associate it with the LLLT so continued Mon-Fri that week. Then the spike was still there so I gave LLLT a break in case that was contributing. The spike continued for about 4 weeks total (my longest). I alternated between thinking it was nothing to do with LLLT, thinking LLLT had gone wrong, and hoping it was the worsening before things started getting better.

Anyway, the spike has been gone about a week now. Indeed I had a couple of days last week when the tinnitus was softer and more tolerable than it has been for 18 months or so since I had a big permanent increase. But those good days have not continued and it is now stabilised at about where it was before the spike. I have not restarted home treatment yet (just wanted to keep an eye on things without complicating the picture).

Any thoughts are welcome. It still is not clear that the spike was caused by LLLT (although it might have been). I do remember thinking in that car journey that one ear plug had gone in further than it usually would, so it is possible that this is the cause.

Hmmm...yaa u really never can tell the course of those big spikes.
I have had them most of my life and the always went away pretty fast. Like within 10sec.
For u to be sure the spike or change in T volume or another sound popping up is due to LLLT, i would say it had to be within a few hours of treatment.
In ibiza after getting treated by Wilden, i suddenly got a hole Zoo of crickets in my ears 6 hours after treatment and i knew it was because of the laser. Cuz it was so crazy wild and not something iv ever had before.
But with the smaller single high pitch sounds, i would say the should arrive at the same time u are treating.
Atleast that what happens to me. Not anymore. But the first 2-3 month, i would get small spikes every time i treated behind te ears.

Are u still doing that as a part of your protocol??

About this high spike of yours....
Im thinking it might could come as a part of airpreasure in the car.
The airpreasure within the ear will not be able to adapt naturaly, when u are wearing earplugs and then maybe slamming the door to the car og maybe driving throug a tunnel or suddenly opening a window at high speed.
When i was in Norway recently and stayed at the guesthouse, i was sitting in the big livingroom and a guy opened a big doorway to the outside and i got a really loud short burst of cricketniose in my ears and then i went away.
This happened two days in a row by this door opening.
Its one of the doorways u have in institutions, where u first open one set of doors and then there is a small "hall" or room and then u need to open one more set of doors to get outside.
This creates huge change in airpreasure when these doors slam.
So this was when i discovered that airpreasure can trigger T also.


Anyway...sounds more and more to me, like u need a really powerfull treatment to kickstart the hole thing.
Cuz u are really not responding like u should by this homelaser imo.