Low-Level Laser Therapy (LLLT) for Tinnitus — Experiences (Dr. Wilden, etc.)

[RaZaH]

I actually tried to find your audiograms @attheedgeofscience , cant seem to find them, anyone have a link ?
I would gladly pay for better hearing , hearing is my profession after all.

 

[uae96]

I don't understand .....
Why do doctors say you're hearing doesn't come back once it's lost .,.... Here's some proof that hearing can be reversible !!!!

 

[Ricardo AM]

Thanks for the info @TOVEGA.

I've now booked a 5 day treatment session at Anne's clinic in Norway between Jan 4th and 8th. I'm very skeptical, but keeping my fingers crossed something will improve. Wish me luck!

She's only €110 per day and I'm fairly sure she's using the Lucky Laser -machine for at least some of her treatment. Let's see what it brings.

Hello,

Im going to Norway as well for my 2º set of treatments in a few days hoping to have a clear improvment on earing loss T and H.../same thoughts as you about effectiveness!

Its not easy to take such a decision like this to travel far away from home.....
But how many of us try to exchange experiences here, best for all....

Lets see if some of us have improvments!
Cheers,
Ricardo

 

[Philip83]

Hello,

Im going to Norway as well for my 2º set of treatments in a few days hoping to have a clear improvment on earing loss T and H.../same thoughts as you about effectiveness!

Its not easy to take such a decision like this to travel far away from home.....
But how many of us try to exchange experiences here, best for all....

Lets see if some of us have improvments!
Cheers,
Ricardo

How many treatments did you do the first time around? Did it have any effect on your hearing or tinnitus?

 

[Ecip]

Anyone try the lasers available at konftec.com for hearing loss/tinnitus?

 

[Ricardo AM]

How many treatments did you do the first time around? Did it have any effect on your hearing or tinnitus?

I made early September 5 days (every day about 4 to 5 hours) different lasers on both ears (each half hour).
Dr Anne make pauses between lasers and controls the machines during treatment / so I believe in her competence which is no less than 42 years in LLLT.

Specifically about my symptoms:
- I noticed a slight improvement in Hyperacusis tolerance since there;
- I had since 2012 the left side of my face very sensitive when touch or shave / in 2 or 3 sessions my sensitivity decreased considerably (but after two months was back again...)
- The tinnitus changed in tone (sometimes more intense / sometimes better ...) so this is the part I did not see great effect for the better (though something has changed thats why i will credit on this....)

Unfortunately didnt notice any improving on hearing yet (hopefully i will feel this time as TOVEGA) ..... I made an audiogram about one month ago and I intend to make another when i return in the same place - in Portugal (some weeks later / it seems that the effect of laser can last up to 3 months) and see if i get objective differences.

I wish to say i had the same sucess as TOVEGA for a first time....but i also think i have some reasons to keep trying at least 1 more time (lets see and hope!)

Anyway, i think very important all of us trying to report our experiences (the good ones but also the disapointed as well....)
I will keep in touch / please do the same (and all members who had tried....)
All the best / Cheers,
Ricardo

 

[japongus]

God, this nonsense of paying 2000 euros for 10 sessions at this Ibiza golf player's place really has to stop. Look, there's a possibility that laser works for a very precise etiology. But with the many etiologies that there are for ear pain, that's pretty lame. The only etiology it could be working for is if you feel dizzy with your ear pain and have been diagnosed with the overdiagnosed meniere's which may really only be herpes, so its a kind of vestibular symptomatology. That's why all you keep getting is all this rubbish talk about audiograms, because it clears the space for the herpes.

And what you should be doing for this is buying 1 lucky laser from the lucky laser website and sharing it amongst you all, its really that simple, there's no deep mystery in the ''frequencies he's using'' bs.

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

Thanks for the info @TOVEGA.

I've now booked a 5 day treatment session at Anne's clinic in Norway between Jan 4th and 8th. I'm very skeptical, but keeping my fingers crossed something will improve. Wish me luck!

She's only €110 per day and I'm fairly sure she's using the Lucky Laser -machine for at least some of her treatment. Let's see what it brings.

Do not worry, you will find a lot of lasers.
All the best

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

And what you should be doing for this is buying 1 lucky laser from the lucky laser website and sharing it amongst you all, its really that simple, there's no deep mystery in the ''frequencies he's using'' bs.

Yes there is.
not that you have any option since he only use one type oflazer. but different wavelenght does have different results.

 

[japongus]

Yes there is.
not that you have any option since he only use one type oflazer. but different wavelenght does have different results.

LOL, no there isn't. Different brands of lasers will always give the same laser on the same frequencies. And lucky laser covers them beyond need to such an extent that Wilder was whining that they owed him some kind of patent that he'd somehow failed to file...

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

LOL, no there isn't. Different brands of lasers will always give the same laser on the same frequencies. And lucky laser covers them beyond need to such an extent that Wilder was whining that they owed him some kind of patent that he'd somehow failed to file...

Can I ask you how many laser treatments did you make, and how many hours did you spend talking about laser with what is considered one of the most specialized person on earth?

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

but different wavelenght does have different results.

maybe I should have say different "reactions", but results in the end is the same.

 

[Atlantis]

@FERNANDO GIL I'm happy to hear about your success with LLLT. Your posts are very informative. Thanks.

 

[RaZaH]

Maybe we need some kind of conclusion thread for LLLT as well, drive me bananas trying to sift through all this conflicting info.

 

[RaZaH]

Well, after days of searching I found @attheedgeofscience audiograms.
Some parts I woud say are within the error margin but I would think there is definite improvement, I would gladly pay good money for such an improvement myself.

 

[Zechariah]

I was doing some studying and found out that there is one clinic here in Finland offering LLLT for Tinnitus.

I asked about how they do the treatment and these are the specs:

- 808nm GaAlAr Laser at 650mW power for 8mins per ear.
- If ear canal gets irritated, they will switch to 650nm GaAlInP Laser (didn't mention the power).
- Laser is aimed to ear canal.
- Treatments are done 5 times in a row (whatever this means, 5 times over 5 days?)
- Cost is 67e per session (which includes 2x8mins of actual treatment).

Lasers power is pretty high but the treatment duration is shorter than at Dr. Wilden or Anne Harilas clinic so i think there is no health hazards involved and the overall dosage should be around the same ( 650mW for 8mins = 325mW for 16mins)

What do you think, worth a shot with these specs or is there something that could be adjusted according to Wilden or Harila? Does anyone know exact treatment dosages Wilden and/or Harila are using.

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

Well, after days of searching I found @attheedgeofscience audiograms.
Some parts I woud say are within the error margin but I would think there is definite improvement, I would gladly pay good money for such an improvement myself.

Can find mine here.
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/thread...nnitus-—-experiences-dr-wilden-etc.295/page-6

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

Can find mine here.
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/thread...nnitus-—-experiences-dr-wilden-etc.295/page-6

And this from a Portuguese lady
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/thread...nitus-—-experiences-dr-wilden-etc.295/page-20

 

[RaZaH]

I did not see much improvement in your audiograms im afraid .

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

I did not see much improvement in your audiograms im afraid .

Hi RaZha.
If you think you can get cured doing one month of LLLT. Is better forget.
If you decide to make LLLT you should be prepare for 3/4 years of treatments. And for sure you need power sessions from time to time. and contínuos treatments at home. And avoid noise at all cost.
The audiograms you see are only from the first two months . Since then I did not make any. I´m preparing to make one now in mid December. That is when I will compare with the ones I posted more than one year ago.
Sheers

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

TO ALL....
http://www.slms.org/ppt/Interviews.mp4
Somw answers to a lot of questions.

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

And for those who think is just a red flash light.
http://www.laser.nu/lllt/Faq1.htm#Is laser

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

I was doing some studying and found out that there is one clinic here in Finland offering LLLT for Tinnitus.

I asked about how they do the treatment and these are the specs:

- 808nm GaAlAr Laser at 650mW power for 8mins per ear.
- If ear canal gets irritated, they will switch to 650nm GaAlInP Laser (didn't mention the power).
- Laser is aimed to ear canal.
- Treatments are done 5 times in a row (whatever this means, 5 times over 5 days?)
- Cost is 67e per session (which includes 2x8mins of actual treatment).

Lasers power is pretty high but the treatment duration is shorter than at Dr. Wilden or Anne Harilas clinic so i think there is no health hazards involved and the overall dosage should be around the same ( 650mW for 8mins = 325mW for 16mins)

What do you think, worth a shot with these specs or is there something that could be adjusted according to Wilden or Harila? Does anyone know exact treatment dosages Wilden and/or Harila are using.

Hi
Here goes my advice.
@Ricardo AM went to visit Anne in September with me and made 5 days trataments. He´s audiogrames did show up some improvements but not so big as we all want. But he´s H is lower now. He just came back from 3 days treatment and from Anne and from my last talk with me , he did got a big reaction this time, Bigger than the first time. The reason why I´m saying this, is that if your first treatment is not strong enouph maybe you get dispointed with LLLT and MAYBE ( notice I say MAYBE) you give up from a POSSIBLE (notice i say POSSIBLE) cure or improvement. And maybe only a second one will really give a stronger kick on the healing process . Knowing that my advice is that you start with Anne or Dr Wilden and then make smaller less expensive trataments in Sweden. Of corse money is always something to be take in consideration. So the point is to spend less money on the treatments in Sweden and maybe no improvement at all, or spend more money in a treatment at Anne or Dr Wilden, and then you have a better idea if LLLT works for you or not.

Is just an advice, and don´t be afraid, Anne and Dr Wilden know what they are doing and till today no one ever had side effects from LLLT, not in T or any other treatment.

Fernando

 

[Zechariah]

Hi
Here goes my advice.
@Ricardo AM went to visit Anne in September with me and made 5 days trataments. He´s audiogrames did show up some improvements but not so big as we all want. But he´s H is lower now. He just came back from 3 days treatment and from Anne and from my last talk with me , he did got a big reaction this time, Bigger than the first time. The reason why I´m saying this, is that if your first treatment is not strong enouph maybe you get dispointed with LLLT and MAYBE ( notice I say MAYBE) you give up from a POSSIBLE (notice i say POSSIBLE) cure or improvement. And maybe only a second one will really give a stronger kick on the healing process . Knowing that my advice is that you start with Anne or Dr Wilden and then make smaller less expensive trataments in Sweden. Of corse money is always something to be take in consideration. So the point is to spend less money on the treatments in Sweden and maybe no improvement at all, or spend more money in a treatment at Anne or Dr Wilden, and then you have a better idea if LLLT works for you or not.

Is just an advice, and don´t be afraid, Anne and Dr Wilden know what they are doing and till today no one ever had side effects from LLLT, not in T or any other treatment.

Fernando

Hi, thanks for the advice, but I was wondering how close the dosages at Wilded/Harila are compared to a treatment here in Finland (One session: 808nm GaAlAr Laser at 650mW power for 8mins per ear.). After all the dosage is an important factor. What is your opinion on the dosage of this amount?

If the dosages are pretty close to each other, then it's justified to take 5-10 sessions here in Finland to see if it has any effect. The cost of 2000 - 3000 euros is just too much for me. If it was a certain cure - then no problem, but it's really long shot what comes to T.

I could take nearly 30 sessions here in Finland at the same cost than 5 sessions at Wilden. This is because the sessions are cheaper and I don't have to pay for hotel/flights etc. not to mention the economical losses I would be facing because I would be off-work a whole week. I think it is pretty safe to say that the dosage will be bigger with 30 sessions (or even 10 sessions) here in Finland compared to 5 sessions at Wilden.

The "laser nurse" who does this treatment has done laser treatments for 20 years including tinnitus patients so even though she is not as famous as Wilden or Harila - she should have some insight in treating T. I replied to her with some additional questions to map out her competency. She holds her reception at the special private hospital which seems to be credible (as pretty much every hospital in this over-regulated country).

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

Hi, thanks for the advice, but I was wondering how close the dosages at Wilded/Harila are compared to a treatment here in Finland (One session: 808nm GaAlAr Laser at 650mW power for 8mins per ear.). After all the dosage is an important factor. What is your opinion on the dosage of this amount?

If the dosages are pretty close to each other, then it's justified to take 5-10 sessions here in Finland to see if it has any effect. The cost of 2000 - 3000 euros is just too much for me. If it was a certain cure - then no problem, but it's really long shot what comes to T.

I could take nearly 30 sessions here in Finland at the same cost than 5 sessions at Wilden. This is because the sessions are cheaper and I don't have to pay for hotel/flights etc. not to mention the economical losses I would be facing because I would be off-work a whole week. I think it is pretty safe to say that the dosage will be bigger with 30 sessions (or even 10 sessions) here in Finland compared to 5 sessions at Wilden.

The "laser nurse" who does this treatment has done laser treatments for 20 years including tinnitus patients so even though she is not as famous as Wilden or Harila - she should have some insight in treating T. I replied to her with some additional questions to map out her competency. She holds her reception at the special private hospital which seems to be credible (as pretty much every hospital in this over-regulated country).

I think the price is 67€ / 16 minuts?
If so 1 hour would be 268€. Compared with Dr Wilden that would be best for you, for sure.
The think is that Anne is 120 € for 4/5 hours.
But try it in Finland if you feel she is competent. And after that make you decision about LLLT. But what I think is that 16 minutes only is not enough for first time. Try one hour at least ou even more.

But the important think is that you try.
Fernando

 

[ragnaboz2]

Finally got the visa going to anne Harila in Norway at Thursday or Friday. Feeling hopefully...

 

[Blujay]

I have an observation about laser therapy that I've not seen addressed...

A number of people stress that the therapy takes a long time, and that Dr. Wilden recommends wearing earplugs to protect the hearing at all costs (on the street, in the car, etc.).

However, I know of quite a few people whose condition improved dramatically just from wearing ear plugs and doing nothing else.

How would one know the real cause of any improvement?

 

[Zechariah]

I think the price is 67€ / 16 minuts?
If so 1 hour would be 268€. Compared with Dr Wilden that would be best for you, for sure.
The think is that Anne is 120 € for 4/5 hours.
But try it in Finland if you feel she is competent. And after that make you decision about LLLT. But what I think is that 16 minutes only is not enough for first time. Try one hour at least ou even more.

But the important think is that you try.
Fernando

I see you didn't get my dosage aspect...

I think that doing 1 hour therapy with 650mW power would damage your ear (atleast the sensitive skin in ear canal).

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

I see you didn't get my dosage aspect...

I think that doing 1 hour therapy with 650mW power would damage your ear (atleast the sensitive skin in ear canal).

Hi
You right.
My mistake.
808 nm at 650Mw is really a high dosage.
You can do it for longer if it´s pulsed. But As i said, if she as experience she knows what she is doing.
Sorry

Fernando

 

[Frances Lynn]

I've read ten or so pages of this thread and the last page. Having already spent a lot of money on treatments with very little results, I can't afford to fly to Norway or Spain from Texas, USA and wondered whether anyone knows of a practitioner of LLLT in the US?