Low-Level Laser Therapy (LLLT) for Tinnitus — Experiences (Dr. Wilden, etc.)

[ragnaboz2]

There is one clinic in Florida. You can find the information about this clinic in this thread. Don't know which page, sorry​

 

[Bobby B]

I did a Laser (near infrared) session today at a local chiropractice
7 minutes on the left ear (bad one) and 10 min on the vegus nerve in the neck at the front of it.
the laser used is about 2200mw (high power) and sends a composite beam of 600nm-1600nm

http://hirata-medical.jp/products/near-infrared/ha2200.html

this one is even more powerful with a 10,000mw (10w) pulse

http://hirata-medical.jp/products/near-infrared/super-lizer-px.html

That was at noon and tonight my left ear feels warm inside and perhaps T has lowered a small notch and H as well. It feels like something is happening inside the ear.
Maybe placebo effect though ...

In Japan these machines are large expensive medical equipment grade used for a long list of healing applications, the cost of session is very cheap though, its about 8 USD per session, 10min.

The vagus nerve session gave me a nice warm relaxing effect in the whole body right away, the ear nothing at first

This guy at the link (try google translate) says his T got gradually much better after a few weeks following a single 10min session.

http://wgy6.net/cat5/miminari527.html

so this isn't even LLLT its a more powerful laser version with a wider wave range but much shorter session and hopefully kicks the repair ASAP - time is running short for regeneration opportunities if they even exists

Also I have been wearing ear plugs and ear muffs in noisy or slightly noisy situations, car, street, restaurants the whole last week etc.. and feel that sounds got better too...

I stopped using plugs and just put my bigger shooting ear muff on most of the time even with being with people outside...I can hear through the muff okay and even though T is still noisy It does seems that the balance between outside real sounds vs T is very slowly shifting towards real sounds.

My T is a composite sound of high frequencies, with varying frequencies at times

Here is my ear muff

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Shooting-Ra...es-HIGH-NRR-/381218323788?hash=item58c261fd4c

It does look like a fancy retro earphone so no one even looks at me in a funny way.

I find ear muff to be faster, easier and less strain on the skin inside the ear canal and also less risk of putting microbes or dirt inside the ear...don't need an infection now

 

[Bobby B]

Here is a study backing up why laser or LED in near red frequency may work at improving hearing loss : nerve regeneration

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20358337

which may directly affect the core issue since nerve degeneration follows cochlear damage as per this study

Adding insult to injury !

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19906956

 

[Bobby B]

Hi Everyone
Just received my Lucky Laser from China today, got the one with 4 probes (two per frequencies) so that I can do both ears at the same time.

Fernando, which power settings and time do you suggest I start with ? And do you stick it into the ear canal or hold it manually and move it around the ear to hit the cochlea at some point..since I'm not sure where it is placed in relation to my ear/head angle.
Thanks
@FERNANDO GIL

 

[Bobby B]

 

[Bobby B]

808nm at 300mW - 6 to 8min (both ears at the same time, with prob inside)
650nm at 500mW - 10min (both ears at the same time, with prob inside)

two times per week, for 10 weeks.

would that be it ?

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

808nm at 300mW - 6 to 8min (both ears at the same time, with prob inside)
650nm at 500mW - 10min (both ears at the same time, with prob inside)

two times per week, for 10 weeks.

would that be it ?

HI
Good you got it. A few points first.

1- start slowly and make the two ears at the same time in the beginning.
2- Do NOT USE 808nm above 400 MW when is direct to your ear channel, more than that can be dangerous if it´s for to long time. But to avoid any ear problem do not use above 400mw.
3- On the 650 nm, mine only goes up to 120 mW. And my advice its the same. When inside the ears do not use above 120 mW.

My advice would be the same I made to Luka:

This week (16.2.2015- 23.2.2015) I'm doing:
650 Wavelength

• 30 mins a day on 80 mW power

808 Wavelength

• 20 mins a day 350 mW power

Do it for 5 days, stop 2 days and the 5 days again.

Do it at the same time in booth ears.

After you get used you can rise the power, but for now that is the safe.

Some times you need more power for the ealing process to start, but i´m not a doctor so i´m playing safe.
At the moment i´m doing 2 hours a day in each ear at full power, but i´ve doing it since June last year.
So play safe for now, and then we see how it reacts.

During this time PLEASE protect your ears as much as possible. Avoid noise at all cost. Now and always.
Relapses are easy when we have T so PROTECTION is a must.

The laser you have is different from mine. The laser should put it in your ear channel, and should be pointed to (more or less) to the back/bottom of your skull.
IF you have Skype i can show you. maybe is better.
But try and for sure you will figure out the best way.

Let´s hope it works for you.

Fernando

 

[Bobby B]

Thanks a lot Fernando ! and a happy Christmas.. will try these settings and yes Skype would be very helpful maybe later on.

 

[Bobby B]

Hello Fernando - I did a few sessions on the Lucky Laser..I think that the 808 frequency is having some effect as my ears have less H ..no sure if I use the coreect angle thoug for the in ear canal tip -I try to move it around a bit but please let me know which combination was used at Anna clinic thanks
@FERNANDO GIL

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

Hello Fernando - I did a few sessions on the Lucky Laser..I think that the 808 frequency is having some effect as my ears have less H ..no sure if I use the coreect angle thoug for the in ear canal tip -I try to move it around a bit but please let me know which combination was used at Anna clinic thanks
@FERNANDO GIL

View attachment 9037

I would say between:
2 and 3
E and D

The important is to know if after making the laser treatement the T goes up.
That is the best way to know if is making efect.

Remember, the T goes up before going down.Unfornatly is the way it is.

 

[Bobby B]

Ok thanks
Sometimes it
Goes up right after or down but up a few hours later - I am trying to habituate and not check it all the time though . I know my brain can make it super loud if I start tuning on it so it's hard to judge.
My main goal is to get back some Db on the scale , I am pretty sure I got dents in various frequencies - more than just the ones that were plotted in the audio gram since the steps they check are too wide ,so my t is a collection sound of all those lost frequencies that's why it sounds like a shower or a hiss - air from a tire - rather than a single tone. So getting those dents evened out a bit will be great if this can be achieved over the next few months wiht the laser and make the T softer eventually

 

[bell]

Hi to all of you, new here, although I have been reeding you for months!
I,m 38, tinnitus and a hearing loss sufferer.
Want to thank to all of you that give me hope when Im blue, above all the active members of these thread that tell us their experiences (Fernando, Atheos, nick....) and also members like tommytl that always search for hopeful news to report us (Thank you!!!). You all make my life a little easy as now I have hope.
I`m thinking (really decided) to go to see Wilden. In fact I have already made audigrams now in order to compare later, when started treatment (I will report).

The problem to me is time, as because of my job I can´t stay now for 10-12 days in Ibiza. I will be able to take this time in summer.
So, I would like to ask Fernando, or Atheos, or Nick (sorry if I forget sbdy)....your oppinion of what you think its preferable to do:
-wait till summer to go to Ibiza and start there with the high dossage treatment at clinic, buying there the laser pen?
-Or buy now the laser pen, make home treatment by myself till summer and in summer going to Ibiza to the high dossage treatment?
Thank you!

 

[Bobby B]

I did a few laser sessions now, at first the 808 frequincy felt hot on 0.3W but I guess my ears are used to it now its does not feel hot anymore.
Will try crank it up to 0.4W

Mt T goes up about half a day later, more intense so I hope its a good sign.

Not sure why T has to go up though.. any specifc reason to that ?

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

I did a few laser sessions now, at first the 808 frequincy felt hot on 0.3W but I guess my ears are used to it now its does not feel hot anymore.
Will try crank it up to 0.4W

Mt T goes up about half a day later, more intense so I hope its a good sign.

Not sure why T has to go up though.. any specifc reason to that ?

Acording to Dr Wilden are the cells "waking" up . Usualy the stronger the reaction the better results in the end. So it´s a good sign. It does not need to feel hot to produce results. Do not go over 0,4 W

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

Hi to all of you, new here, although I have been reeding you for months!
I,m 38, tinnitus and a hearing loss sufferer.
Want to thank to all of you that give me hope when Im blue, above all the active members of these thread that tell us their experiences (Fernando, Atheos, nick....) and also members like tommytl that always search for hopeful news to report us (Thank you!!!). You all make my life a little easy as now I have hope.
I`m thinking (really decided) to go to see Wilden. In fact I have already made audigrams now in order to compare later, when started treatment (I will report).

The problem to me is time, as because of my job I can´t stay now for 10-12 days in Ibiza. I will be able to take this time in summer.
So, I would like to ask Fernando, or Atheos, or Nick (sorry if I forget sbdy)....your oppinion of what you think its preferable to do:
-wait till summer to go to Ibiza and start there with the high dossage treatment at clinic, buying there the laser pen?
-Or buy now the laser pen, make home treatment by myself till summer and in summer going to Ibiza to the high dossage treatment?
Thank you!

Buy the lucky laser, same as@Bobby B. Then go to see Dr Wilden or Anne. Lucky laser does have two wavelenghts. And Dr Wilden only one and less power.

An cheaper....Quality is good cause Anne uses them, mine had a problem, send it to them and got fixe at no extra cost. So that is my advise.

You can buy with only two probes.

nice you try.....

 

[lymebite]

@FERNANDO GIL

Fernando,

Thank you for your extensive posts on your experience with laser therapy, I have been reading through this thread with great interest.

I wondered if you are familiar with the LLLT results reported by Otoclinica in Spain? They presented in July 2015 at the International Conference on Hyperacusis (ICH) in London and the improvements in hyperacusis they reported seem quite remarkable:

http://www.researchposters.com/Posters/AAOHNSF/AAO2014/SP327.pdf

Any thoughts on their approach and results?

Best,

Dave

 

[Bobby B]

Looks like a lucky laser tip in the photo

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

@FERNANDO GIL

Fernando,

Thank you for your extensive posts on your experience with laser therapy, I have been reading through this thread with great interest.

I wondered if you are familiar with the LLLT results reported by Otoclinica in Spain? They presented in July 2015 at the International Conference on Hyperacusis (ICH) in London and the improvements in hyperacusis they reported seem quite remarkable:

http://www.researchposters.com/Posters/AAOHNSF/AAO2014/SP327.pdf

Any thoughts on their approach and results?

Best,

Dave

Hi
I go with @Bobby B , to me it looks like they are using Lucky laser. The only diference is that they have a device to" hang" the two toghether, to make the two wave lenghts ( 650 and 808) at the same time. The rest nothing much diferent from other clinics. Hiperacusis is the first thing to be cured as they say , rest can have decretas ,or can be cured but takes time. Nice you find it.

 

[lymebite]

In terms of providers in the United States, Dr. Peter Zeischegg in Nevada City, California appears to be experienced in LLLT for tinnitus and hyperacusis. So, with Dr. David Rindge in Melbourne, Florida, that makes two options stateside.

Would be great to hear if anyone has tried Dr. Zeischegg or Dr. Rindge. Links to both:

http://www.drz.org/asp/conditions/hyperacusis2.asp

http://cooperativemedicine.com/laser-therapy/ear-disorders/

 

[lymebite]

@Zimichael, in one of your old posts you mentioned that you wished there were enough time in the day for LLLT to be one of your "must read threads." With apologies for pulling you over here, since there probably still is not enough time in the day, I thought you might be geographically proximate to Dr. Zeischegg, who is in Nevada City, California, and that you may be familiar with him. He is (apparently) one of only two people in the United States that offer LLLT for hyperacusis and tinnitus. Any thoughts about (or even direct experience with) him?

http://www.drz.org/asp/conditions/hyperacusis2.asp

 

[Philip83]

As I'm writing this I'm omw to Anne in Norway for a 5 day treatment. I'll try and gather as much details about my treatment as possible, both about the procedure and my personal results.

 

[Bobby B]

Good luck man - hope you get some results
For sure hyperacusis is down to pre trauma level for me at this point.
The office vacuuming lady was just front of me and I barely noticed it. A few weeks ago i would have cringed if she was even in the room

 

[SteveSkis92]

As I'm writing this I'm omw to Anne in Norway for a 5 day treatment. I'll try and gather as much details about my treatment as possible, both about the procedure and my personal results.

Please keep us up to date with your progress! Thanks for letting us all know you're doing this. Excited to hear your results! Good luck!!

 

[Cymro41]

Anyone tried Tinnitool?

Don't know what to do next. Seem to be running out of options. Driving me to drink dangerous amounts of alcohol...

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

Anyone tried Tinnitool?

Don't know what to do next. Seem to be running out of options. Driving me to drink dangerous amounts of alcohol...

Tinnitol is a SKAM, 5 mW is nothing. If decide for LLLT then do it properly.

 

[ruben ruiz]

What is proper? Is the Spa Laser appropriate? Thank you.

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

What is proper? Is the Spa Laser appropriate? Thank you.

it is, but you will be better with the Lucky laser.

 

[lymebite]

@FERNANDO GIL , do you know what lasers are shown in the two photographs of patients receiving treatment here:

http://cooperativemedicine.com/laser-therapy/ear-disorders/


Also, are you familiar with the Microlight ML830 laser? Would it be effective? Specifications:

Diodes - Three gallium aluminum arsenide laser diodes
Coherent - Beam travels in a straight line
Monochromatic - Form a single wavelength
Polarized - Beam is concentrated in one location or spot
Power - 30 milliwatts per diode
Wavelength - 830 nanometers
Energy Delivers 3 joules of energy per 33 second treatment cycle

http://www.ml830wholesale.com/en/content/7-ml830-cold-laser

Thank you!

 

[Bobby B]

You don't want a polarized beam this delivers a lot of energy in a very small spot - this is potentially dangerous and not designed for human application

Do yourself a favor and just get the lucky laser - it's designed for tinnitus , the beam won't hurt you as its divergent and it's proven to work see the study they did use the same device in the link above in hyperacusis treatment

 

[lymebite]

@Bobby B , thanks, I know that is good advice but I am in the United States and earlier posts in this thread suggested a Lucky Laser would be rejected by US Customs upon entry from China due to not having FDA approval. Do we know any more about this? Has anyone in the United States ordered a Lucky Laser and had it accepted or rejected by US Customs?