Low-Level Laser Therapy (LLLT) for Tinnitus — Experiences (Dr. Wilden, etc.)

[lymebite]

I'm confused, how is that improvement? The chart at the bottom is the oldest than the top one. And the trend is it didn't improve but got worse. Am I missing something

The chart on the top is the before - June 10, 3013.

The chart on the bottom is the after - August 5, 2013.

Confusion likely because North America and Europe do date notations differently (month and day reversed).

Link to ATEOS audiograms before (top chart) and after (bottom chart) LLLT:

https://www.tinnitustalk.com/attachments/audiogramsbefore-after_attheedgeofscience-pdf.4730/

 

[RaZaH]

after 2 months of use so far it helped for the hearing/H part and even made my T softer.

Could you elaborate ? this thread is huge , sorry if you have already done so.
I would love to know how much you feel your hearing has improved , in what way you feel it has helped your t.
How often you use the laser and lastly , what laser are you using ?

 

[RaZaH]

Apart from that I am anxiously waiting for the day someone will post audiograms with marked improvement.
@Bobby B ´s comments sound promising though.

 

[Bobby B]

@RaZaH
Since you are in the region , if I were you I would just contact and visit those LLLT clinics in Norway or Sweden - they have much more experience than me - I'm just one guy here. See what they have to say in your case.

I live across the planet so these Scandi treatments are a bit out of the question plus I like the idea of doing it myself at my own rythme since its a long term treatment anyway. But for a start those clinics should give you an idea of the deal and have all sorts of powerful lasers.

I will get some new AG in a month or two but they only test until 8khz and most of my loss and T is much higher so not sure what this will show.

I use a frequency sweep on my iphone or the general fuzz PC site to hear if my gaps are filling in and they seem better than a month ago.

Also a month ago some frequency caused a slight sort of pain - like hitting a nerve on my bad ear but now its better too.

But i definitely feel less reactive T, very little H and better sounds overall
T spikes up and down after each session so its hard to judge but today It was completely gone on my left ear for about 30 minutes - first time since my trauma - so I feel its doing something but progress is slow...and its a roller coaster on a daily/hourly basis.
I use the lucky laser mostly at 650nm at 120mw deep into my ear canal. This is a professional unit very well built used in some clinics too.
I do 15minutes both ears everyday at night and twice a day on week-ends.

Right after each session, about 2-3 hours later there is a strong spike in T which lasts 2-3 hours then it gets very quiet when I wake up in the morning, but the spike sometimes wakes me up at night but still better than having it during the day as my mind will be focusing on T big time as I wear ear-muffs outside, in cars et.. so it does seem loud for a while.
T pitch has progressively changed form a loud dirty hiss to a narrow clean band and when T is quiet it sounds like a very faint humming CRT TV cathodic tube..

 

[Mithrandir]

@RaZaH

Like this, is it better ? https://healingmenieres.wordpress.com/audiogram-results/

 

[RaZaH]

Like this, is it better ? https://healingmenieres.wordpress.com/audiogram-results/

That is amazing progress, wish it displayed the most common area of hearing loss , namely 4-6 khz

 

[Mithrandir]

@RaZaH
I think you don't ask if it's function of it...try it...don't hope it will kill your T, the goal is help your body to heal himself quickly, and win some condition in your hearing loss, and you can hope less hearing loss => less tinnitus !
Dr Wilden says me "you have to do it each day and PROTECT YOUR EARS"

 

[RaZaH]

The day I see concrete proof that it works for typical hearing loss I will buy the $2000 machine, no doubt about that.
Bobby B has me interested but its an expensive machine

 

[Mithrandir]

@ RaZah It will be too late maybe. I'll send you my audiogram if it's better

 

[Onnie]

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jbio.201500209/abstract

 

[jdjd09]

@RaZaH

Like this, is it better ? https://healingmenieres.wordpress.com/audiogram-results/

Ok I may bite. How does one buy the luminex device? Or how does the luminex device compare to try lucky laser system?

Also how would one get the luminex into the ear? I guess I somehow have the money or this and worse case nothing happens. But the medical community isn't providing me any solutions and there seems to be SOME evidence this may help.

 

[Mithrandir]

I bought that. that's very expensive, I received it in 5 days...crossed fingers

https://www.lux-spa-ibiza.com/index...op/product/35-lux-spa-home-laser-by-dr-wilden

 

[bell]

I read this whole thread and similar threads (luka, tovega... ) in 2015 and I decided that I would try LLLT treatment.
I finally decided to purchase Wilden's device and making Home treatment some months before going to Ibiza this summer.
One of the reasons of my decission was that after reading this forum (and blogs as Hansi Cross 's one) I got the impression ( it is only my own impression) that MLS did a better work than other lasers (eg Tovega report, or I got impressed with the improvements in her audiograms of the woman who bought Fernando's Láser pen.)
I made an audiogram in 2 different ENTS .( only till 8000) and I made my MLS purchase.
I received the Home Laser in January and I am with the treatment.
The feeling is good , although my tinnitus volume level has increased dramatically and new sounds has appear . I now have a kind of "hell" in my head, but I will continue with the treatment (at least I feel that it is doing " something")
By now I don't know if I have any improvements in my hearing (maybe yes?) the only thing I know for sure is a sensitivity to some sounds that now annoys me.
I won't make a new audiogram soon, prefer waiting as I don't want it to become an obsession. I have
Tinnitus for more than ten years and hearing loss.

 

[RaZaH]

This is interesting.
http://www.readcube.com/articles/10...chase_site_license=LICENSE_DENIED_NO_CUSTOMER

 

[Reinier]

One common denominator is the fact that the articles talk about dealing with oxidative stress.
As far as I am aware this happens soon after the noise incident.
Also people mention tinnitus spikes after using the infra red. Is there any reason to assume this is good?

The audiograms I see are not typical noise induced hearing loss diagrams where the loss is most prominent in the 4kHz region.
I genuinely want to believe it works in any way! Tinnitus, NIHL or hyperacusis.

 

[Mithrandir]

@ Reinier

I have T + H due to acoustic trauma & NIHL in a few times and look at my audiogram...loss only in high frequencies, I did 6 good audiograms on low frequencies in 4 months, doc told me "you're stressed and depressive..."

 

[Reinier]

I did 6 good audiograms on low frequencies in 4 months, doc told me "you're stressed and depressive..."

I am not sure what you mean with 6 good audiograms on low frequencies.
You mentioned you are waiting for the infra-red equipment to arrive.
I will be very interested to see how you get on with the therapy.
Your situation looks similar to mine. (Except my audiogram is much worse). Your NIHL was a loud explosion too. I have NIHL because of a loud explosion. Except my NIHL happened in may last year. My tinnitus and hyperacusis started approximately one month later as it should have )-:
Please keep us apprised.

 

[Mithrandir]

blue line is between 0kHz and 8 kHz, red line is between 9kHz until 16kHz. My T+H arrived in same time ten days after the acoustic trauma.

I used lllt since 5 days + trobalt since 10 days. Trobalt doesn't act on audiograms contrary to lllt. The both can act on H + T

 

[Reinier]

I missed the red line in your audiogram. Your audiogram does not look bad at all.
Still very interested to follow your changes regarding tinnitus and hyperacusis.

 

[bell]

Here is my new laser and my terrifying last audiograms too. I have snhl and I have many audiograms in my life that shows a progressive lost. I decided to post in advantage in case I improve my hearing ( fingers cross!) to keep up from doubts. By now it would be possible that I would have any improvements in hearing, I don't know. Placebo? Will report!

 

[jdjd09]

Here is my new laser and my terrifying last audiograms too. I have snhl and I have many audiograms in my life that shows a progressive lost. I decided to post in advantage in case I improve my hearing ( fingers cross!) to keep up from doubts. By now it would be possible that I would have any improvements in hearing, I don't know. Placebo? Will report!

How often will you be using the machine? Also how often will you be getting the hearing tests?

Also, sorry if you already mentioned this. But, when did you get the hearing loss?

 

[Reinier]

Here is my new laser and my terrifying last audiograms too.

I am confused now (-;
The last audiogram you posted is after the grenade explosion?
The audiogram going up to 16 kHz you posted earlier is before the incident?

 

[Mithrandir]

The audiograms I posted is after explosion of grenade, that's the only one I have until 16khz.

With the army I make 1 audiograms by years, and with ENT or army I made a lot of audiograms after the grenade but just only until 8khz (useless...)


@bell I have the same The left side diode doesn't function, I told it & Dr Wilden wasn't happy, the provider sent me a new one which arrived in 4 days like the laser did.
Bell, how old are you ?

 

[Reinier]

The audiograms I posted is after explosion of grenade, that's the only one I have until 16khz.

Sorry for the confusion I created.
I assumed @bell diagram was your diagram.
Your diagram does not look as bad as my diagram looks. But than you are a lot younger than I am.
Still very interested to see how @bell and yourself are progressing with the LLLT.

 

[Mithrandir]

2 months and half with the laser of Dr Wilden and I'd like to go in Norway in may to have more power :-

 

[bell]

How often will you be using the machine? Also how often will you be getting the hearing tests?

Also, sorry if you already mentioned this. But, when did you get the hearing loss?

Hi @jdjd09, I,ts about a month that I am using the laser 45 minutes every day, I will have new hearing test next month, at least two months since starting the therapy, I really feel like to make a new audiogram already, but I think it is still very soon.

I have progressive hearing loss due to many factors;

1-Inherited reasons; My mother and grandfather got deaf in theirs 50-60s but when I was a teeneager my mother still had good hearing and my grandfather was just a"lovely deaf grandfather" so I didn`t take care in my 20s of my hearing.

2-NOISE: At that time my "rock music fever" and many rock concerts did wrong for my hearing, but It wasn´t until my 30s that I realised that I was lossing my hearing, but it was too late.
Now with 38 years old my hearing is similar that my mother´s one that is 70 year old.
Now I protect my ears but since I am 30 every year the progression of my lost is huge.

3-DRUGS; Now I realise that I aspirin and Ibuprofen are bad for the hearing,but it´s been hundreds of these pills that I have taken in my lifetime!!

As you can see I am 38 and all I have done in my life has been a complete disaster for my hearing....

 

[Nucleo]

inner ear exhaustion

What in the hell does inner ear exhaustion mean anyways? I cannot find anyone else giving this diagnosis.

 

[bell]

@bell I have the same The left side diode doesn't function, I told it & Dr Wilden wasn't happy, the provider sent me a new one which arrived in 4 days like the laser did.
Bell, how old are you

@Mithrandir It,s a pity that is does not work properly, mine (by now) is ok.
I am 38, and you? I will follow your progress.
Please share your experiences with the laser, I will also do.

 

[Mithrandir]

I will share too I'm 28

 

[Bobby B]

@attheedgeofscience

Could you please let us know what you believe LASERS exactly do to the cochlea - do their fix bent/broken hair cells, or help nerve regeneration ? We know they help with ATP and cell regeneration but how does that translate to hair cells in our case - acoustic trauma damage

I use it now and notice gradual improvements in sound quality but keep on wondering what they exactly do - we do have some info on rats and such but maybe Doc. Wilden told you a few other things too

Thanks