Low-Level Laser Therapy (LLLT) for Tinnitus — Experiences (Dr. Wilden, etc.)

[FERNANDO GIL]

Hi All
A few months ago when @Nick J. had is set back. I wrote that with time you tend to forget the problems that made you get T.
Guess what, the one who give the advice made the same mistake twice. Went on holidays with family this beginning of the month, to the Maldives to make surf like i did when I went to Bail to do the same.
After the 3rd day notice my left ear was hurting, i thought was due the fact that i was wearing the ear plugs.
On the 4th day it was confirmed i had a ear infection. Thank good i went right away to the doctor how prescribe me Amoxilin, a safe antibiotic for the ear, but the damage was made already. I have now T in the two ear and exactly due the same cause. Ear infection, I´m writing down this from Norway, it´s been 3 days i´m doing laser therapy at Anne Clinic.
The good think is that is not so severe as was last one, thank good I took the Antibiotics on the second day, and as soon I arrived my house i made 15 minutes of LLLT and got a reaction, so I know that is possible to get better. Is really a high pitch. The other thing is that my right ear T is almost gone, maybe with this treatment will be gone, let´s hope so.
Lesson in life, don´t make the same mistake twice. Now is time to restart.

Sheers all

 

[Rube]

Hi All
A few months ago when @Nick J. had is set back. I wrote that with time you tend to forget the problems that made you get T.
Guess what, the one who give the advice made the same mistake twice. Went on holidays with family this beginning of the month, to the Maldives to make surf like i did when I went to Bail to do the same.
After the 3rd day notice my left ear was hurting, i thought was due the fact that i was wearing the ear plugs.
On the 4th day it was confirmed i had a ear infection. Thank good i went right away to the doctor how prescribe me Amoxilin, a safe antibiotic for the ear, but the damage was made already. I have now T in the two ear and exactly due the same cause. Ear infection, I´m writing down this from Norway, it´s been 3 days i´m doing laser therapy at Anne Clinic.
The good think is that is not so severe as was last one, thank good I took the Antibiotics on the second day, and as soon I arrived my house i made 15 minutes of LLLT and got a reaction, so I know that is possible to get better. Is really a high pitch. The other thing is that my right ear T is almost gone, maybe with this treatment will be gone, let´s hope so.
Lesson in life, don´t make the same mistake twice. Now is time to restart.

Sheers all

I'm sorry Fernando but sounds like you're doing everything you can to get better. How do you think you got this ear infection? From the ocean water ?

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

I'm sorry Fernando but sounds like you're doing everything you can to get better. How do you think you got this ear infection? From the ocean water ?

I do have psoriase, and have it in my ears as well. So maybe that is where the problem comes. But, and a big BUT i think the main cause is the air conditioners. When i got it in Bali the air conditioner was turned on, since then till now i avoid it at all cost, and this time i was felling so confident that i just let it turned on. I´ve been traveling since first time i have T and did keep surfing and nothing happens. So i presume is the psoriases/warm water/ and of corse the big diference of temperatures.....
I will check better n Portugal.
Maybe is better to get used to surf at home, cold water....

 

[CarrieLee]

Hi Fernado,

Sorry to hear that. I believe you will get better. Anne is such a helpful and competent healer who will help you recover soon. I am a bit confused about what you wrote here about air conditioners. You think air conditioners may give you problems and cause T? Is it the virus you think you get or the sound of it? It is hard to believe air conditioner will give people T. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Philip83]

Hey all,

Alright, I've read through this whole thread two times now basically. I've been meaning to write this post for some time, but I'm a master of procrastination, so…Anyways, I'll make my tinnitus story short:


My Tinnitus
Got it from driving a loud moped when I was 17 (2001), habituated after a while and had been living with it feeling more or less "fine" up until April last year. I had an accident with my stereo system blasting me at full volume by mistake, and since then I've had a permanent increase. The sound before was a sharp hiss (old TV, leaking bass bottle-ish). After the incident there are now "more" sounds similar to this on top of the old one which are louder, and "flicker", like a radio between stations. The old one was more in "the head" and these new sounds are more "in the ears".


LLLT Clinic in Sweden
A couple of months ago (again, procrastinating) I went to see a well known LLLT doctor in Sweden called Michael Zazzio (http://www.alir.nu/alc.htm). I had known about him for a few years, but as I'm a very "science-believing/empirical evidence hugging/die hard sceptic) I never really considered LLLT a possible treatment. And, with my old T volume, even though I could hear it at all time, not bothering me that much, I just didn't feel the need to look further into it.


My uncle's story
The main thing that changed my mind (not counting my invasive T increase) was the story of my uncle. He's been a DJ all his life, and he's had the same style of T as I had before for about 15+ years. He had an accident at work one day where a speaker blasted one of his ears. He got completely deaf on this ear, and his T increased dramatically. After trying to get help from an array of ENT's, who sad there's nothing he could do, he went to see Zazzio for a 10 week treatment. After it, his hearing was back 100%, and his T levels where back to 50% of his OLD volume, before the accident. Quite remarkable to say the least.


My visit to Zazzio's laser clinic
So, I went to see Zazzio in March of this year. It was an interesting meeting and he seemed more credible than I had expected. (I generally don't think most doctors in general are seem very credible). He did a lot of tests, including feeling/pulling my ligaments in my neck, doing a test for H, and an audiogram ofc, although only up to 8000Hz. He said a lot of patients think they know what is causing there tinnitus but that they're often wrong. However, he said my story and my experience match and that what I'm dealing with seem to be a clear case of acoustic trauma, just like I assumed. No neck tension, no blood pressure stuff, etc. Also, he did test my blood for free radicals and my results were "very, very good", so I guess my current diet is good at least


Zazzio's treatment plan
His treatment plan for his patients are as follows (this is also the one my uncle got):

808nm at 300mW - 6 to 8min (both ears at the same time, with prob inside)
650nm at 500mW - 10min (both ears at the same time, with prob inside)

This is repeated only two times per week, for 10 weeks.

Comparing this to the duration that most people on this thread is using their lasers this seems like a very low dosage. Does it not? Does @luka , @Nick J. , @attheedgeofscience , @FERNANDO GIL have any comments on this?


My plan
Since I live in Salzburg, going there for a 10 week treatment is not an option. I am however exploring the possibilities of doing a power session with Anne i Norway sometime when I'm "home" during christmas-holidays, since I'm originally from Gothenburg, Sweden, and that's not too far off from her clinic.


The Lucky Laser
So, the quickest option for me it seems would be to buy a laser for home use. Looking at this thread it seems the Lucky Laser from China is the way to go. I do have some questions about ordering one of these though that this thread have not addressed (to my knowledge):

1. If I order it to Europe, won't I have to pay the customs "import tax premium", like when ordering stuff from the US? Isn't that like 30-40%? Or is it different from China?

2. The website http://www.lucky-laser.com seem to be down at the moment. Does anyone know anything about this? Or do I have the wrong URL?


THANKS for any help or advice anyone can give me to sort these questions out. Hope the formatting and color coding helped to make this a bit more readable

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

My plan
Since I live in Salzburg, going there for a 10 week treatment is not an option. I am however exploring the possibilities of doing a power session with Anne i Norway sometime when I'm "home" during christmas-holidays, since I'm originally from Gothenburg, Sweden, and that's not too far off from her clinic.

If you have a chance try Anne first, see the reaction and they go for the Lucky laser. I did bring mine direct from China, so is dificult to help you on the transport costs. Maybe @Nick J. can help you since is father ordered one.

All the best, hope it works for you.

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

2. The website http://www.lucky-laser.com seem to be down at the moment. Does anyone know anything about this? Or do I have the wrong URL?

Here is the mail.
luckylaser@vip.163.com
she is know as Lulu

 

[Philip83]

If you have a chance try Anne first, see the reaction and they go for the Lucky laser. I did bring mine direct from China, so is dificult to help you on the transport costs. Maybe @Nick J. can help you since is father ordered one.

All the best, hope it works for you.

I see! You don't have any comments on the drastically different approach to dosage / time-frame of treatment that Zazzio have compared to Anne? When I talked about it with him he said that it's very important to not overdose it because the cells quickly gets "immunized" (Or whatever it's called, I know there's a medical term for this, but I can't remember it) and stops reacting to the treatment. This is also why he, like others, advices to do long brakes between each treatment. He said he developed this course over the 17 years he's been treating people with LLLT.

I'm not taking anyone's side here, I just would like to have a discussion about what the best way to dosage these things would be!

@attheedgeofscience , do you have any thoughts on this?

thanks!

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

see! You don't have any comments on the drastically different approach to dosage / time-frame of treatment that Zazzio have compared to Anne? When I talked about it with him he said that it's very important to not overdose it because the cells quickly gets "immunized"

HI is right, the thing is that he only uses two wave lengths, and when you go to Anne you will be using up to 8 different wave lengths, and during 5 days. So the time to get "immunized" is not long. You will need time between the treatments for sure, and use different wavelengths thats is right as well.
I´m just wondering about the 650 at 300 mW i think is to much power for that wavelengths..But will check with Anne.

 

[Ricardo AM]

Hi Fernando Gil,

My name is Ricardo and i am from Portugal too!
I admire your "fight" to solve the T .... I have also the same problem unfortunately, but worse is the hyperacusis that bothers a lot and restricts my social life. I have been tried a lot of treatments unsuccessfully but i dont want to give up looking for a solution ... and them i found this forum and your testimony give me (all of us) some hope.

I write in English out of respect for the entire forum, but would like to get in touch with you because i am considering to try this treatment. If you allow this i would be grateful.
Best Regards,
Ricardo AM

 

[Ricardo AM]

To all members,

Im new here and i have been reading this blog for some time but never participated until now... I went through a frustrating process (unfortunately like most cases here) in seeking a medical solution so far without success...

I am writting to share for those who may not know this medical research (with satisfaction and great hope) about the increasingly plausible possibility in the Hair Cells Rehabilitation , which is already in "testing phase" in volunteers with deafness and may be closer to a path on the solution for T symptom (for most cases T is the first signal of hearing loss)

In short:
It is a medical therapy introducing a gene to activate the "off cells". One way of introducing a gene is incorporate it into a harmless virus that "infects" the appropriate cells and provides copies of the therapeutic gene. Once inside the cell, the gene is switched on and is able to exert its biological effect. This gene is called Atoh1 which is already studied for a few years and may be the key to the solution.
Follow the link where I saw the information:

http://www.actiononhearingloss.org....irst-gene-therapy-trial-for-hearing-loss.aspx

I know this blog is about LLLT but i can see a similar target here and (for me) make sence. The trial i talk about will have official results expected in 2017....until there lets make all we can to save all the good remaining cells....

All i have been read about LLLT (especially the Fernando Gil reports / living in the same country that I live) give me hope enough to consider this treatment as a viable way until a new and more effective solution appear.
So please Fernando Gil keep in touch with your results!

Cheers to all,
Ricardo

 

[felinefine]

Interesting about the air conditioner @FERNANDO GIL, interesting that you caught on to that. Most people don't realize the implications of indoor air quality, and how it is extremely impactful on health. Tons of studies on this. Air quality was also what originally started my h and t...to a very very extreme level. Then had noise exposure and one ear has the t, the other things went away for the most part. Laser is helping so much with my bad ear! So happy for your help...

 

[Ricardo AM]

Olá Fernando Gil,
Só agora reparei que me respondeu mas eu ainda não "atinei" a funcionar com este blog / como lhe responder directamente?...
caso veja esta mensagem:
Sou de Aveiro e também me inscrevi no blog "Cronicas da Surdez Zumbido" está lá um contacto que criei (e-mail)
Entretanto vou tentar entrar em contacto consigo neste blog...
Obrigado pelo seu feedback

 

[Philip83]

HI is right, the thing is that he only uses two wave lengths, and when you go to Anne you will be using up to 8 different wave lengths, and during 5 days. So the time to get "immunized" is not long. You will need time between the treatments for sure, and use different wavelengths thats is right as well.
I´m just wondering about the 650 at 300 mW i think is to much power for that wavelengths..But will check with Anne.

Did you get an answer? cheers

 

[uae96]

Hi guys , just a quick question , would you go to do the laser therapy at high doses at dr wilden clinic if you had the chance ? I'm consider going to ibiza to do it ,

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

Did you get an answer? cheers

Yes
depende on the brand is what Anne said.
See if it´s possible to know?
sheers

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

Hi guys , just a quick question , would you go to do the laser therapy at high doses at dr wilden clinic if you had the chance ? I'm consider going to ibiza to do it ,

I did. is the mosts expert in LLLT.
You can go to Anne in Norway as well.
sheers

 

[uae96]

I did. is the mosts expert in LLLT.
You can go to Anne in Norway as well.
sheers

Is it worth it ?

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

Is it worth it ?

Concerning the LLLT tretament, you will only know if you try if will work for you or not.
Unfornatly is not a confirmed tretament for everyone, so the only way is trying it.
I found this clinic in Dubai.
Check with them, what lasers they have. Maybe you can try there first and see if it works for you.
http://www.californiachiropracticcenter.com/services/low-level-laser-therapy-in-dubai/

Ask them what lasers they have and what brand, I can ask Anne after if it´s ok for the ear.

All the best.

Fernando

 

[uae96]

Concerning the LLLT tretament, you will only know if you try if will work for you or not.
Unfornatly is not a confirmed tretament for everyone, so the only way is trying it.
I found this clinic in Dubai.
Check with them, what lasers they have. Maybe you can try there first and see if it works for you.
http://www.californiachiropracticcenter.com/services/low-level-laser-therapy-in-dubai/

Ask them what lasers they have and what brand, I can ask Anne after if it´s ok for the ear.

All the best.

Fernando

They only do that laser for sport injuries on the knee. Back , foot etc.. But thanks for putting effort into it !! Thanks I will do more research on it but I am willing to give it a try nothing to lose ..

 

[japongus]

Hey all,



My uncle's story
The main thing that changed my mind (not counting my invasive T increase) was the story of my uncle. He's been a DJ all his life, and he's had the same style of T as I had before for about 15+ years. He had an accident at work one day where a speaker blasted one of his ears. He got completely deaf on this ear, and his T increased dramatically. After trying to get help from an array of ENT's, who sad there's nothing he could do, he went to see Zazzio for a 10 week treatment. After it, his hearing was back 100%, and his T levels where back to 50% of his OLD volume, before the accident. Quite remarkable to say the least.

How long between the blast and the start of laser did he go?

I'm doing it with a Zazzio namedropper in Madrid after 15 yrs of T and H and after 4 sessions no difference at all.

 

[Ricardo AM]

Hi japongus,

I am new here and also try to discovery more about LLLT....as far i can see this is a long term treatment that requires persistence for results!
We have some good reports here but certainly success depends on the degree of damage to the cochlea (each case is different from the other...)

All the best!
Ricardo

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

Did you get an answer? cheers

[31/07/15, 19:34:46] Anne Harila: If I should say what kind of Power it is inside the parts for sending laserbeam out, i had to say that the laser you have are at least 400 mw 650 nm- yes, yes, BUT OUTPUT POWER is what is doing the treatment- and then in the unit you have is 120 mw 650 nm.
[31/07/15, 19:35:24] Anne Harila: output treatment Power.

This is more I can get from Anne, so all depend on the model. Sorry for the delay.

 

[gintas]

any experiencese Low-Level-Laser ligt treatment ? http://www.lux-spa-ibiza.com/index.php/en/inner-ear-laser www.dasgesundeohr.de ( engl. version ).

 

[uae96]

any experiencese Low-Level-Laser ligt treatment ? http://www.lux-spa-ibiza.com/index.php/en/inner-ear-laser www.dasgesundeohr.de ( engl. version ).

I'm going next month

 

[gintas]

ok, please tell us

so , anyone had succes on this list about Low-Level-Laser ligt treatment ? except Philip uncle's story ?

 

[gintas]

maybe someone have experiences with Laser Photon 3D http://www.energeticmedizin.com/ing...photonlaser3dmodulierbarmagnetfeld/index.html in lithuania it is . maybe worth to try .

 

[gintas]

maybe someone have experiencees with Laser Photon 3D theraphy http://www.energeticmedizin.com/ing...photonlaser3dmodulierbarmagnetfeld/index.html

 

[FERNANDO GIL]

ok, please tell us

so , anyone had succes on this list about Low-Level-Laser ligt treatment ? except Philip uncle's story ?

Till now on this forum, nothing conclusive yet. The treatment can take time, 4/ 5 years to reach a point where you can say you almost cured. So the only way is t o try it and see if with time works for you. Is not a 100% cure and does not work with everyone.
Only time can tell.

But since you had it recently good chances to help. depending on the causes.

Fernando

 

[japongus]

Till now on this forum, nothing conclusive yet. The treatment can take time, 4/ 5 years to reach a point where you can say you almost cured. So the only way is t o try it and see if with time works for you. Is not a 100% cure and does not work with everyone.
Only time can tell.

But since you had it recently good chances to help. depending on the causes.

Fernando

Here we go again. Just like all the other scams, first they say cure in 2 months, then 2 years, then 20 years. That ''the cure comes long-term'', in other words thats its bs and its placebo...

Enlighten me on how you think these ''stressed out hair cells'' aren't showing up on electrocochleographies as recruitment or hearing loss or hearing augmentation, and how laser expects to improve the TTTS or other muscle spasms that are probably behind hyperacusis, if the condition is, like laser likes to claim, not a neurological rearrangement as a result of excitotoxicity.