Low-Level Laser Therapy (LLLT) for Tinnitus — Experiences (Dr. Wilden, etc.)

[Bobby B]

@Tom Rollison
good stuff ! and welcome to the site

had a quick look at the site you posted

for inner ear treatment you would need a very powerful light source in the 2-5w range of optical power for LED and with a wavelength above 800nm for deep penetration..the visible light they use will be mostly cut by the skin, flesh and bones inside the ear

some of those clinics use 5w or 20w pulsed devices

 

[tinniwalker]

Hi @Bobby B ,could you please take a look at this item - http://www.ebay.com/itm/IR-850NM-Zo...ght-Night-Vision-18650-Torch-CH-/321842294827
is it an appropriate option to try the Photobiomodulation at home or we need more power? Lucky Laser is too expensive for me so i've decided to try it with LEDs..

 

[jacob21]

Hi

this thread is very long ,
Myself I bought the one from Dr W. Used it for a while and didn't noticed any effect . I have some hearing loss in high frequencies . I made a test before and after many sessions . No changes in my audio test .

How many people here found relief with LLLT ?

All the best
J

 

[Bobby B]

how long is " for a while"
which device - the 30mw ?

 

[WildMan]

I've was using the lucky laser quite a bit. I notcied some changes, my tinnitus became very thin in my left ear in the mornings, then I stopped using it and the normal piercing T came back. I think the LLLT has an effect on me but only on my left ear (both ears have different tones/frequencies). My right ear never bothered me anyways, it's my left ear that is all whacked out (buzzing chirping, squeeking, sometimes sounds like a swarm of crickets).

If you are using the devise correctly you may very well have spikes. I think a lot of people are failing to remember if you do this (LLLT) you can't expose yourself to noise like; loud engines, loud music, headphones, etc. I've done my best to keep away from this type of intrusive noise. I'll even wear earmuffs if I'm going on a long distance drive (5-10 hrs). I'll utilize lllt for the long haul (2-4 years) and see what happends. I have definitely changed how I live my life, no more high caliber rifles, concerts, headphones, loud engines, loud bars. Good thing I work in the forest lol.

 

[jacob21]

how long is " for a while" 6 month , not every day . maybe 3 to 4 times a week, 30 min
which device - the 30mw ? The device is LUXSPA

 

[DaveB]

So I was suffering from what I now realize was more like hyper-acusis (being highly sensitive to to sounds in my ear) and was searching the internet for a cure. I found this forum and followed a thread that recommended the Konftec LLLT. So I ordered one and then used it on and off (20 min sessions) every now and again (not even 3 days a week, just whenever I thought to have a session and only once per day). It didn't seem to be working but I noticed my hearing dull. I just assumed it was whatever had hurt my ears from before.

The Konftec site says to use the laser everyday for 30mins...I didn't even come close to that.

About 2 weeks ago I did a session. The next day I noticed a shrill high pitched sound in my ears that doesn't go away if there is sound. I used to LOVE the quiet....now it hurts me.

I did two things wrong I believe. The forum post I looked at didn't make it clear to me that you need to have an audiometric test done first, find the frequency that bothers you, then pick the laser for it. I just picked the biggest one (emLas-520b) http://www.konftec.com/html/ko_product_tinnitus.htm

I DON'T RECOMMEND THIS PRODUCT - YOU CAN DAMAGE YOUR EARS AND MAKE IT WORSE!!

No one made that clear to me that I could damage my ears worse. After all it is just supposed to "stimulate" regeneration it says and there are no long lasting harmful side effects their website says....yeah right...

Lately I've been bothered by the air-conditioner at my work making "wub-wub-wub" noises and aggravating my ears.

I'd KILL for the hyper-acusis I had before. At least it would go away when there was sound.

I'm writing this as a warning and a cry for help from experts.

Please tell me my ears will heal and that it at least will die down to 50% volume....I can't live like this. I've been taking a lot of B12 and D3 hoping to help it heal.

 

[Bobby B]

This konfec is notoriously underpowered - you wouldn't be able to kill a fly much less damage anything in your body especially deep into the inner ear

 

[DaveB]

I thought I read in another thread that you can boil the water in your cochlea with a powerful laser.

The laser I have specs are:

Laser Wave Length: 808nm
LD Laser power: 90mW
Ear tip laser power: 63mW
Total LD laser power: Infrared 180 mW

Are you sure that couldn't fry my ears if I used it for 20 mins straight?

And if I did fry my ears....what are my chances of recovering from this high pitched tone?

 

[DaveB]

So I had what I would now call hyperacusis/low level tinnitus and then I bought the Konftec laser (emLas-520B) and made it worse (constant high pitched ringing that doesn't go away with sound).

I need to know how badly I damaged my ears and if there is any chance at recovery of any kind.

I used the laser on and off (for 20 mins at a time) but no more than 2-3 days a week max (some weeks not even using it). I noticed my hearing dull and my ears burning but assumed that was the damage from before and not from the laser. I should've stopped then... I didn't even really think the laser was working to be honest.

Then 2 weeks ago I did a 20 min session. Woke up the next day to a constant high pitched freq (10,600 kHz) in my head that is strongest in silence but overlays some sounds.

I read in another thread that it is possible to boil the water in your cochlea and fry your ears. Is laser/heat damage worse than audio damage? Did I give myself irreversible T? I hate that I did this to myself.

Laser specs:
emLas-520b:

Laser wavelength: 808nm
LD Laser power: 90mW
Ear tip laser power: 63mW
Infrared 180 mW

Someone please tell me this will die down to at least half....I might be able to live with that. It's sooo loud in silence I can't sleep even with masking sounds.

 

[Tom Cnyc]

@DaveB

Honestly, you're super early on in your tinnitus journey. It's VERY highly unlikely that you made anything worse with that device. In my 13 months my levels have gone up and down a lot. Try not to confuse correlation with causation in regards to LLLT.

 

[Bobby B]

@DaveB
Read the thread - most clinics use 500mw and no one fried their ears
Too much heat will give you vertigo right away

 

[Rose57]

Has anyone tried green or blue LEDs in addition to red? If so, did it help? Here's some information I came across about it online:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/22380691/?i=3&from=/22081819/related

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/28092651/

 

[Bobby B]

These experiments are for direct exposure of superficial skin wounds - not deep penetration into the skull

These wavelengths do not penetrate beyond the skin

 

[jer]

So I have recently acquired some more hearing loss because of an ototoxic eye steroid (lotemax), of which the doctor said it wasn't. Stupid me for listening to him. Anyway, I come across this article and am considering doing a few sessions. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22138884

Did anyone have experience using this a few weeks after being exposed to ototoxic medications, and do you guys think it would work / not make my tinnitus any worse than it already is?

 

[Bobby B]

It's worth giving it a try because lllt has no side effects - who knows maybe you may get some improvements out of it

However you need a powerful light source in the right wavelengths - it has to be done right to even have an effect and even then there is no guarantee the effect will be noticeable

It takes time - months or years

I am doing it since December 2015 and I am getting improvements but very slowly

 

[jer]

What would you consider to be the right wavelengths? And do you do it with a small home made device or something stronger?

 

[Bobby B]

@jer
this is what i use

800-1200nm w/l

2w of optical power LED - roughly 10 to 20w of electrical power for low efficiency cheap LED

10 min a day per ear

 

[Blue28]

@Bobby B you say you're getting improvements slowly, have you noticed a change in your audiogram?

 

[Bobby B]

Yes I saw some improvements
How much this is due to LT we will never know though
Sound quality and H definitively improved

There are a few good examples where it helped with H so it must be doing something

 

[jer]

So your level of ringing and intrusiveness actually went down? Was your tinnitus before starting with the laser stable, or it moved all over the place and you can't say if it helped or not?

 

[Bobby B]

My t was a loud hiss and very fluctuating left/right along with some high frequncy zapping tones

Its like hearing a constant sound of crickets while taking a shower - while someone keeps opening soda cans right next to your left ear then right ear with a psshht sound, and from time to time someone is using a very high pitched metallic wheel on a piece of glass

I also had a sound like the faint crackling of a hard disk or shaking a light bulb with a broken filament - in my left - worse ear - the muzzle side affected by how I was shooting large bore rifles with poor ear protection

Now it's only the crickets, a constant sound, higher in pitch than at first , and much lower in volume overall.

So yes I got less volume and higher pitch and more stability in the T and no more various sounds - I think LT helped

 

[siljejg]

Could anyone please tell me where to buy Lucky Laser?

 

[lymebite]

Could anyone please tell me where to buy Lucky Laser?

@siljejg

If you are in Norway, I would suggest you consider treatment with Anne Harila in Oslo before you buy a Lucky Laser. Anne uses the Lucky Laser in her clinic. So you would learn how to use it.

Anne also can help you purchase a Lucky Laser if you decide it might be helpful.

http://www.laserklinikken.com/treatments/tinnitus-ringing-in-the-ears.html

 

[Vasili]

Hi,
Has anyone looked at the device below? It seems powerful 200mw, and not too expensive

https://www.win-health.com/b-cure-laser-biostimulation-laser-therapy.html

 

[Bobby B]

Too weak
Too expensive
Too wide to cover the ear canal - the power is diluted and you may just end up shining it into the eyes and cause damage

Just get the led at 20w

Cost 1/10 of the price for 100 times the power of this toy

 

[Vasili]

Thanks. But is it safe to shine all that power in the ear? 20W sounds a lot. Anything above 500mw could cause damage.
Also how would you assemble it, i dont have experience doing that, is there a dummys guide?

 

[Bobby B]

Read the post where someone used a 20w led - with pictures
His ID is pumkinate

 

[LJMD]

Hi all,

Iv'e been using Dr Wilden's LLLT device for three months, with some improvements in my T. There hasn't really been a volume decrease, but the sounds appear less tonal. More of a static sound or low hiss, which is much less intrusive.

This has also corresponded to improvements in an audiogram and a distortion product otoacoustic emissions (DPOAE) test (although the audiologist maintained they weren't significant), these are attached. Note the +15 dB improvement at 6k and 16k on the audiogram. Also, several areas of improvement in the DPOAE - I'm tending to pay more attention to this test, as it takes removes a subjective element to the results.

I've just been using the laser for about an hour per day - under Dr Wilden's initial direction. Although, I don't really exchange emails with him that much anymore.

LJ.

 

[Bobby B]

good stuff!

rather unusual to have such damage at low frequencies -what exactly is the cause of the damage ?