Low-Level Laser Therapy (LLLT) for Tinnitus — Long-Lasting Everyday Home-Practiced Experiences

[LulaLula]

I barely have tinnitus but I have tonic tensor tympani syndrome and ear fullness. Can laser work for this?

Thanks!

 

[Leodavinci]

I can't speak to it, but my guess is it wouldn't hurt if you do it in small doses and monitor your response slowly.

 

[SoundB0und]

Does anybody know if the laser is safe to use while you have an ear infection and ears still have some mucus in it? Has anybody done it? Couldn't find anything online.

I got a bad cold 4 days ago, by now I'm almost completely out of it but my ears are ringing quite bad. I had some really good days before that. Haven't been using the laser for 3 days.

There's some ear pain as well but it's really mild. Dont wanna take antihistamines they make my derealization worse.

 

[MichaelF6161]

For those using the Konftec devices, how are you determining what wavelength of earbuds to use?

I see there is some graphic using the tone of your tinnitus to recommend which ones to use, but what is this based on? Is there any data on which is more appropriate?

Also, does anyone know the recommended joules per therapy session to use?

I have new onset tinnitus (August 28th) from acoustic trauma (gun fire), and I'm hoping that this will give me a chance to reduce my T since I am in the acute phase.

Konftec says to use it for "30 mins", but using different wavelengths will yield different total energy applied per session. That doesn't seem like a very clinical recommendation to me.

Any feedback from Konftec users is greatly appreciated.
Thanks,

 

[SoundB0und]

@MichaelF6161 , when I asked the same thing from Konftec, which frequency to use and what scientific evidence they based the graph on their site on, they just ignored my email, so I don't know how reliable it is.

The answer is probably that there's no consensus established yet on this subject, nobody really knows. You're going to have to test and try.

I'm still using both wavelenghts 30 minutes a day as Konftec suggested, when I upped it to 35 for a few weeks my T seemed to get worse. It might be and probably is, that what wavelength to use and how long are different for different people.


Regarding my own question about ear infections, according to this link, laser therapy is actually beneficial for acute sinusitis:

http://www.laser.nu/lllt/lllt_editorial9.htm

Laser irradiation works through its analgetic, anti-inflammatory and biostimulative effects on ease of pain, or even on its elimination, its also causes a quicker withdrawal of inflammation and oedema of the mucose and thus brings restoration of drainage of sines as well as normalisation of mucociliar function.

...

Laser irradiation in treatment of sinusitis has no contraindications (with the exception of general contraindications, i.e. malignant tumors in the irradiation area, or epilepsy), and as a physiotherapy it can suitably complement therapy with antibiotics, mucolytics, and antihistaminics.

 

[JohnAdams]

I thought tinnitus is a sound created by the brain and not the ear. If that is true, why would a laser being put in the ear help with tinnitus?

If the cause is loss of sensory hair cells, and the laser can induce regeneration, then that should stop the tinnitus.

Think of an antenna on a stereo, if you take the antenna off, the static is in fact in the receiver, put the antenna back on, static goes away.

 

[MichaelF6161]

I have tinnitus due to acoustic trauma in my right ear. That being the case, is there any reason I should try LLLT on my left ear too?

My thought was to get the system that comes with the two in-ear diodes, but only apply therapy to the right ear since this is where the damage is.

Anyone had this experience?

Thanks,

 

[Lane]

is there any reason I should try LLLT on my left ear too?

Hi @MichaelF6161,

I'm no expert on LLLT, but I do know that the right ear is connected to the left ear! I've read numerous examples of tinnitus starting in one ear, and after several weeks to months, it migrates over to the other ear. I think once a person gets tinnitus--in which ever ear(s)--the trauma eventually spreads to the whole auditory system, and even various parts of the brain. I see no reason to exclude LLLT on any area whatsoever. In fact, I'd say it's likely the more points/areas you treat, the better. -- Just my opinion of course.

 

[MichaelF6161]

@Lane, thanks for much for your thoughts. Yes, I guess that does make sense. I'm still debating whether or not to move forward with trying LLLT.

Very heated debate about whether it has an validity or not. I would say give it a try because there is nothing to lose. It either does something or not. However, I have seen some posts where it made T worse or caused some vertigo in some others.

I can't imagine my T level worse than it is right now. That scares the heck out of me.

 

[Ecip]

How many people have noticed a worsening of their tinnitus symptoms, either for a couple weeks before improvement or permanently, while doing LLLT?

I'm aware that they claim that 'you may notice a worsening of symptoms, but it's a sign that it's working' kinda thing... but how true is that statement?

 

[SoundB0und]

For me it did worsen I think but it was quite mild and only lasted a week or two. I consider myself to be a very good responder to the laser treatment.

For me the website made by Hansi Cross has been an invalueable resource. He started the laser treatment after about as long after getting tinnitus as I did and his recovery was quite similar to me so far(I am now 4 months in). He was very detailed in his description of his journey. May he rest in peace.

The website is now down for a few weeks already, probably because nobody's making payments to the host but I might be wrong. Luckily there's websites that archive other websites so I could recover the website, here's a link if anybody is interested:

https://web.archive.org/web/20170822100717/http://www.progressrec.com/curing-tinnitus.html

For him the tinnitus spiked as well. Some of what people think is tinnitus increase because of the treatment is actually tinnitus climbing to a higher frequency.

 

[Lane]

here's a link if anybody is interested:

Hi @SoundB0und,

Thank you VERY much for posting this link. It looks very intersting, and I'll be looking at it closely.

 

[Ecip]

That, and in some cases that they tried the too weak model named Tinnitool.

Define "too weak"?

The TinniTool laser is actually what I'm trying right now. It is a 100mW laser at a wavelength of 660nm. What are the others?


Is this what he was using at home?
https://www.lumomed.com/en/home-laser/

 

[SoundB0und]

Sounds like Tinnitool has had an upgrade recently. I clearly remember several people saying it was 5 mW. There are older links online saying it as well. I hope they're not lying.

If they're for real it might (now) be worth a consideration. Hansi died over a year ago(of cancer) and the site has not been updated and is now down, like I said.

My laser has 2 wavelenghts, 660 nm at 50 mW and 808 nm at 90mW. The (new) price I found for the Tinnitool was 540 euros, I clearly remember the old version of Tinnitool being around 100 dollars.

My unit cost me 820 dollars or just under 700 euros but unlike tinnitool it has 2 wavelengths. You can also purchase devices from Konftec with 1 wavelenght and if you'd go for the 660 nm 50mW one it'd be 413 euros, albeit half as powerful as Tinnitool. The 808 alone would be 483 euros.

Konftec device has been around for longer and is still somewhat cheaper and more people have used it, so I'd probably still prefer it over the new tinnitool, but it's good that there are new devices coming out and more competition to Konftec and doctor Wilden'd device.

Hansi was using doctor Wilden's laser aka.
Lux Spa Homelaser. For a short period he also used a laser by Konftec.

Good luck with your treatment, @Ecip ! And please let us know how it goes.

 

[Ecip]

@SoundB0und
Well, I hope they're not lying... I'd imagine that doing so would open them up to quite some legal trouble. I do remember him telling me that this is the 4th generation one of home treatment lasers. He said that having greater output allows for shorter treatment; 2 mins per ear.
I've attached a photo.

 

[SoundB0und]

You're probably right about that.

2 minutes sounds awful short from what I know. I'm using my 90 mW, 808nm laser 30 minutes at a time, but I'm not sure at all that it's the optimal time. I need to play around with the time some more. It's difficult to draw conclusions because my tinnitus fluctuates a lot on a daily basis.

 

[Ecip]

You're probably right about that.

2 minutes sounds awful short from what I know. I'm using my 90 mW, 808nm laser 30 minutes at a time, but I'm not sure at all that it's the optimal time. I need to play around with the time some more. It's difficult to draw conclusions because my tinnitus fluctuates a lot on a daily basis.

yea, it's 4 mins total, per day... 2 mins morning, 2 mins at night. I suppose I could increase to 10 mins per day. I gotta get more batteries though lol.

 

[Krolo]

@NormySan
How did it go with your LLLT treatment? Are you by any chance in Sweden? Would love to. Try it out in that case!

 

[1000]

Anyone in the United States getting clinical laser treatment with MLS6 or similar?

Who has tried it?

 

[Deathtotinni]

You're probably right about that.

2 minutes sounds awful short from what I know. I'm using my 90 mW, 808nm laser 30 minutes at a time, but I'm not sure at all that it's the optimal time. I need to play around with the time some more. It's difficult to draw conclusions because my tinnitus fluctuates a lot on a daily basis.

I just order the VieLight device which has been studied pretty extensively and has a power output of 10 mW and a wavelength of 810 nm. I honestly couldn't find a machine that was more powerful than that.

 

[SoundB0und]

I just order the VieLight device which has been studied pretty extensively and has a power output of 10 mW and a wavelength of 810 nm. I honestly couldn't find a machine that was more powerful than that.

You're quoting a post where I mentioned my 90 mW laser and then say you could not find one that's more powerful than 10 mW. What am I missing here?

I googled it and it seems to be a intranasal light therapy device for the brain. I guess you could put the diode in your ear as well and it'd work.

 

[Deathtotinni]

I said I couldn't find one that powerful. Yours is 90mw but I couldn't find one in that range for under 20k. I think you misunderstood me because I failed to mention price. I know nothing about lasers.

 

[SoundB0und]

Ok, it's no problem just a bit of miscommunication. And I guess you mean 2k instead of 20. Dr. Wilden's laser is 2,2k EUR. The Konftec one I have is 820 dollars(I have 2 wavelengths) and either 470 or 550 USD if you buy only one wavelength. I actually detailed the prices(in EUR) a few posts ago.

 

[Artemis2K]

Status report LLLT
Name: Jan64
Device (brand, wavelength and power): Konftec, 650 nm, 50 mW (changed from 808 to 650, 808 nm cable was broken)
Lasering since: started again after agravation on 15 August 2017
Protocol (every day? Duration): (almost) every day in bed before and during sleep, 45 minutes
Effects: T loudness slightly down. Better hearing on 6kHz and 8 kHz. Can also be caused by the HBOT and prednisone/pentoxifillin cures I underwent.

How is Konftec better than Wilden's device?

 

[SoundB0und]

How is Konftec better than Wilden's device?

Sorry, I'm not sure if you're referring to me, maybe you should clarify. I think Konftec is better for only two reasons, that is you can get almost 3 devices for the price of one Wilden's and it has 2 wavelenghts.

I don't have personal experience with Wilden's device. Some people say it's better than Konftec's. My experience with Konftec has been good.

I thought one of the 808nm probes was getting hotter than the other one and sent them for repair. Turns out they were fine after the tests they did at Konftec.

I complained also that one wire was slightly loose and wobbly from the place it attatches to the probe. They sent me brand new probes free of charge.

 

[Deathtotinni]

So I've not really posted in this tread much but I'm wondering if any of you have gotten any relief?

 

[SoundB0und]

I'm wondering if any of you have gotten any relief?

For me, the laser has been very effective. I think the main reason for that is that I started lasering only 3 months after my spike.

My tinnitus used to be so bad I was up 2 nights in a row with triple dose of sleep meds when I first got it. I could not read a book and hyperacusis was so bad that turning a pill bottle slowly was very painful. They measured my hearing loss at 85 decibels at 8k Hz.

The only time I protect nowadays is when I'm riding in a car. I've made massive improvements but it's hard to quantify them because the gains have been so gradual. In 3-4 months I'll have another audiogram and then I'll post my success story.

 

[John Meyers]

Hello Jan,

thanks for your kind answer and the provided information. Yes, my T is noise induced (acoustic trauma due to a loud concert) and is only on one side. I was standing to close to the speaker plus I had an infection that time which I was not really aware of. So I think there must be damage in the Cochlea.

I also have experiences with LLLT by Lumomed in Germany (Son of Dr. Wilden) but I guess this is a bit of "fraudulent" if I can put it that way. It costs 200 EUR per Hour and this is why I stopped it after 5 sessions.
My Audiogram looks good, no hearing loss so far. What do you mean by "bone conduction line"?

Greetings!

We have the exact same cause and T in one ear challenge.

I was doing good until about a year ago when it seemed to get worse (or I gave up hope on remedies).

Have you found anything to help ease the ringing lately?

 

[SoundB0und]

Well, this is a post I don't want to make, as it reveals my own stupidity and carelessness. Basically, my tinnitus moves from one ear to the other quite often, and then it's almost only in that ear, then it moves again, this happens every other day or so maybe a bit longer than every other day.

I started noticing that when my tinnitus is bad, it's only in my left ear, when it's good, it's only in my right. I also noticed I had hypreacusis only in the left ear and TTTS only in the left, none in the right. What happened many months ago when I first got tinnitus, even before I was lasering, is I put an earplug too far into my left ear I believe and it sort of stretched it out.

I noticed this many months ago but didn't think much of it, that the left probe in my ear is at more of an angle than the right, its quite slight and I thought it wouldn't matter, guess it did. So this might sometimes also be the reason for some of the people who have no results from the laser(even when they started it early), their ears are different from the people who do and the laser probes are at a wrong angle and miss the pea sized cochleas in the inner ears that are bit far in the skull.

I was mortified when I figured this out yesterday but now I've sort of accepted it. So half of my days are really really good, and half are still bad but better than 5 months ago when I started lasering. Before, I thought that it was normal tinnitus fluctuations, but to be honest, my tinnitus didn't fluctuate as much or nearly as much before the laser.

I'll be more careful from now on to not put the left probe in at an angle and I remember for some time I stuck the left one in deeper but it hurt so I stopped doing that, so it's probably not that I had absolutely no effect of the laser for 5 months on my left ear, but I've probably never really make a good recovery on my left ear because its been so many months since the aggravation.

It would also be a good proof that the laser worked, if indeed my audiograms are different for the left and right ear, I'm going to have one done in 3 months. I tried listening to some music and it seems my left does hear a bit worse than right but it was not a huge difference. I'd advise people to be careful with the positioning of the probes and play around with the position until they feel they have the best effect.

 

[Steve Crim]

Having read through this thread and a dozen others - is it safe to say that LLLT is "not" useful for tinnitus and may or may not be slightly useful for hearing loss???