MuteButton

Status
Not open for further replies.
#271
Mark662 said:
The tinnitus treatment market is almost infinite. If they had a worthy, scientifically proven treatment they could charge a realistic figure to patients as @nills stated. Word would spread like wildfire from happy patients and the MuteButton would be in demand for years.

I doubt if they have more than a handful of boffins working on the development of this device.

It appears to me, tinnitus treatment is a rich man's luxury. Which it should never be.
Click to expand...

My overall impression of mutebutton company is following two ways:

1: They are professional and the device works; price will decline; they are anxious and under pressure to cover costs

2: They are semi professional but solely in it for a quick buck; price will remain at this level; its efficacy is questionable; because of non mass usage like al la iphone efficacy is hard to gauge
 
#272
Mark662 said:
@RobM It's true. Or you can pay £4495 here

http://www.thetinnitusclinic.co.uk/tinnitus-treatment/paying-for-your-treatment

.....for yet more, as yet, scientifically unproven treatment
Click to expand...

I have to say though I went to see these people in London and they did not try to sell me the item in anyway they said my bi lateral purple noise somatic tinnitus was not suitable - mine seems augmented by nerve cross talk as far as I can tell (stretching neck muscles makes it worse etc)
- but who knows :¬(

So a few +1 for them IMO :¬)
 
#274
#276
Many of you may knowthis. But Mutebutton that stimulats the tongue - effectively it is almost... vagnus nerve stimulation. Just not direct on the nerve, but ultimatley using the same idea (tongue being one way into the nerve, to create plasticity of the brain / rewire)

So this looks to me to actually be quite promising given the latest certifications. (pending the literature)

Note also the update is March for UK release [people say February above but had email update today] but also.... March (if approved) for the apparent literature / science on the wide scale tests that have been carried out. I emailed them today with a response in minutes.

So essentially this is neurostimulation but - far quicker given the access to the nerve, to essentially melt the wiring of the neurons around your dead spots, to spread out the rewiring (and hence decibel drop)

I may try this one if come march the literature all comes out. This seems above and beyond the £4500 tinnitus centre series of beeps that essentially general fuzz worked up for free.

A cheap version could be simply putting battery on your tongue while listening to white noise mind you.

A 8.6 decibel drop doesnt seem much when your T is at traffic noise level but if it works... one thing - SURELY if this is CE approved and passes muster - it will be approved on the NHS. Unlike the German ACRN one that screwed up the Nottingham tests
 
#277
FYI from my email (And I WONT be going in for this until the Science is published just nerve stimulation makes sens e to me)
Quote (use strong Irish accent in your head)

"....We aim to launch the device in the UK in March and the rest of Europe in the months following. Our papers are currently being reviewed and following publication they will be available on our website. We hope to have them available in March. Unfortunately we are restricted from publishing them until they are accepted"

First part of the email was the one clinic they will have in Ireland (for consistency in setting up). Asked how many clinics expected in UK but obviously TBA.

Hence surprised there is less of a buzz (no pun) from the crowd on this. Yet with the total lack of science and information, I can get why.
 
#278
SteveO said:
A 8.6 decibel drop doesnt seem much when your T is at traffic noise level but if it works... one thing - SURELY if this is CE approved and passes muster - it will be approved on the NHS. Unlike the German ACRN one that screwed up the Nottingham tests
Click to expand...
If i remember correctly every 3 dB increase is a doubling of volume, so in that regard 8.6 is huge. Would mean an almost 8 times less loud T... I'll have that anyday :D
 
#279
SteveO said:
Many of you may knowthis. But Mutebutton that stimulats the tongue - effectively it is almost... vagnus nerve stimulation. Just not direct on the nerve, but ultimatley using the same idea (tongue being one way into the nerve, to create plasticity of the brain / rewire)
Click to expand...

Show any research that proves this. Directing neuro plasticity with VNS is well
documented. Directing neuro plasticity with tongue tickling is not......atleast show some research that proves the tongue is a pathway into the brain that can be used to direct plasticity. If MuteButton is based on this concept, the research proving the general concept (tongue tickling) must be done in the last 5 years. I cannot find any.....
 
#281
Sjoerd said:
Show any research that proves this. Directing neuro plasticity with VNS is well
documented. Directing neuro plasticity with tongue tickling is not......atleast show some research that proves the tongue is a pathway into the brain that can be used to direct plasticity. If MuteButton is based on this concept, the research proving the general concept (tongue tickling) must be done in the last 5 years. I cannot find any.....
Click to expand...
Read the thread and watch the video I posted twice already, it shows the use of the tongue in the exact same way as Mutebutton is using it to induce brain plasticity ... and it worked!
 
#282
nills said:
Read the thread and watch the video I posted twice already, it shows the use of the tongue in the exact same way as Mutebutton is using it to induce brain plasticity ... and it worked!
Click to expand...

As far as I can tell this is only anecdotal evidence. Give some research that compares the "therapy" to some kind of sham therapy. For VNS...do A and B and the result is C, do only A or B and the results is not C.

I would like to see the same for this kind of treatment. The only thing I have seen is that you can train your visual cortex (if you are blind) to "read" with your tongue. If your are not blind, task performance is more or less the same, but without using the visual cortex. To me that sounds allot like normal learning. Give someone a task, make them pay attention and one will learn how to execute a task. If you have (because you are blind) allot of idling neurons in your visual cortext, it almost seems logical that is it likely that those neurons happen to be effective/efficient in solve the "task" ---> thus they will be selected to do so. I think I could even learn to read with my butt.....nothing special about that.
 
#283
Sjored,
As my post I agree - but the research (which has been years in the making from what they say)- have said should be out by March. It has been delayed but its "being agreed". By who I am not sure but it seems they are making it 100% official, which is a good sign, vs existing "cures" which are pretty loose.

Its weird but there is heavy science on mixing senses to cure another. I quite like the sound of sitting in the lounge, with a electrode on my tongue. Seems medieval.

BUT YES until the research work is out, we don't have much to go on. But I think its more promising than people realise. Im 2 months into a relapse after total habituation (on T that was louder than the ocean -its now back and fear its louder as I hear it above any noise filled bar). Its sheer hell at the moment and cant recall how I ever blanked the noise (was always there etc). So if this appears.... I will register and go down this route (given I don't like the sound of Epilepsy drugs) There is already a 4 week wait in Ireland - assume that's people going for it pre science research.

Note they are planning to release in the USA (and someone said FDA etc maybe reviewing). I actually want to invest in this tiny firm. I think this stimulation (or vagus) + neuromodulation + KV+ potassium release will ultimately knock T right down. I hope. We pray.

But hey I get anyone negativity also given current "cures" are junk with many being expensive. Even for people who got "cured" replased, hence actually there was zero repair.
 
#286
Antinitus / Mutebutton. What's the difference...?

Around €2,500! Same scientific basis.

They say they can't publish their results until they are "Accepted" - Yet they use the 42% drop in volume as a selling point (Hence quoting the results...).

I think they overshot the effectiveness percentage a tad - 42% is too good. 12% may have looked more authentic.
Its like when a guy goes "all in" in poker - Has he got "the nuts" or nothing at all. In most cases he's bluffing...
I would be far more fearful of a small counter raise....
 
#287
Sjoerd said:
As far as I can tell this is only anecdotal evidence. Give some research that compares the "therapy" to some kind of sham therapy. For VNS...do A and B and the result is C, do only A or B and the results is not C.

I would like to see the same for this kind of treatment. The only thing I have seen is that you can train your visual cortex (if you are blind) to "read" with your tongue. If your are not blind, task performance is more or less the same, but without using the visual cortex. To me that sounds allot like normal learning. Give someone a task, make them pay attention and one will learn how to execute a task. If you have (because you are blind) allot of idling neurons in your visual cortext, it almost seems logical that is it likely that those neurons happen to be effective/efficient in solve the "task" ---> thus they will be selected to do so. I think I could even learn to read with my butt.....nothing special about that.
Click to expand...
Look man, I take your question serious and give you an answer ... you reply with the same pessimistic doubts ... where from I clearly can understand you did n`t follow the link I added and my advice of following it ... watch the bloody documentary! (imagine smiley here - with his tongue sticking out)
 
#288
Agree with nills. The doubts are a bit OTT before the launch and really not constructive. I get why. But still. So 2 days back i emailed the firm again but stated the lack of data is really effecting reputation pre launch. I even sent a link to this thread so they could see. It worked. They updated website with the details that they can publish. And im sorry it looks VERY strong so again the negative views dont help. Burning a 10 year research solution before its been launched. So here you go, im trying to get details, vs just rant that it wont work.

Many thanks for the feedback.


We have updated our website to include past research and clinical publications and will continue to update as necessary.


Please see the links below:


Publications / Presentations are listed here:

https://www.mutebutton.ie/research


Additional Product information is available here:

https://www.mutebutton.ie/healthcare-professionals

https://www.mutebutton.ie/our-device



Me again. I am sitting here with some 80 decibel masker in right ear so lets all hope somethinge out there will work

PUBLISHED RESEARCH
The mutebutton system is the culmination of more than 10 years of research and development. As the makers of mutebutton, Neuromod Devices is committed to continually building on and advancing tinnitus research.


FUTURE PUBLICATION
With further publications scheduled for 2015, to date related research findings have been well received by leading clinicians, industry bodies and journals alike. The mutebutton system was awarded a medical device CE Mark, following full performance evaluation by the British Standards Institute in 2014.

Its pending review as they said. Not that scammy to me. Given they didnt do a sell to me just to wait for more news. Vs buy now dont delay etc

Anyway. Ciao

1200 - 1210 IMPACT OF ACOUSTIC AND TACTILE MULTI-MODAL NEUROMODULATION ON OBJECTIVE AND SUBJECTIVE MEASURES OF PERMANENT INTRACTABLE TINNITUS

R. O'Neill, C. Hamilton, B. Pearlmutter, G. Crispino,

S. Hughes, B. Conlon


Objective: To determine the efficacy of a novel neuromodulating tinnitus treatment that combines spectrally modified broadband sound with a simultaneous transcutaneous electrical stimulus on the anterio-dorsal surface of the tongue, where the stimulus is a spatio-temporal representation of the instantaneous spectral profile of the modified sound. Methods: A 16-week randomized prospective study conducted on 54 patients (34 male, 20 female, mean age = 47 years), suffering from permanent intractable tinnitus (>6 months), with an accompanying high-frequency hearing-loss. Patients were evaluated every two weeks (4 weeks without treatment, 10 weeks with treatment, 2 weeks follow-up). Outcome measures to determine efficacy included Tinnitius Handicap Inventory score (THI), Tinnitius Loudness Matching (TLM) and Minimum Masking Level (MML). Results: Statistically significant and progressive improvement in mean Tinnitus Handicap Inventory score (-9.4pts), mean Tinnitus Loudness Matching (-7.2dB) and mean Minimum Masking Level (-8.6dB) upon completion of study. Conclusion: Multisensory neuromodulation demonstrates promising positive impact on the objective and subjective measures of intractable tinnitus.

Multi-modal Auditory-Somatosensory Neuromodulation for Tinnitus: Patient Suitability Characteristics and Further Studies

R. O'Neill, C. Hamilton, B. A. Pearlmutter, G. Crispino, S. D'Arcy, B. Conlon

Objective: Multi-modal auditory-somatosensory neuromodulation is a novel intervention for permanent intractable tinnitus that combines spectrally modified broadband sound with a simultaneous transcutaneous electrical stimulus on the antero-dorsal surface of the tongue, where the stimulus is a spatio-temporal representation of the instantaneous spectral profile of the modified sound. Our objective was to conduct a detailed analysis of data from previous clinical studies to determine if there was a discernable set of characteristics that define patient suitability for this intervention.
Methods: Patients were categorised as improversa or non-improversa based on
clinical scores (MML: -10dB; TLM: -10dB; THI: -18pts). Univariate analysis looked at the statistical differences in the individual factors between improvers and non-improvers. Multivariate analysis was also undertaken to investigate if the combination of certain factors was important in identifying good responders to treatment. The factors included: Age (<>50yrs); Gender; Lateral/Bilateral HL; HL Level; Tinnitus location and type. Results: Improvers tend to have a higher baseline THI score or are in the older age category. If the participant is in the younger age category, they are more likely to show an improvement if they have had the condition for more than 2 years.


Again note full reports in peer review so this is just to say..... WE arent fakers. Full details pending. Glad this helps 2 years plus vs all the current more new t durations
 
#289
Stuff like this I just wouldn't touch until I hear a lot of testimonials and it comes down in price. I feel as with many ailments, tinnitus seems to be a licence to print money for lots of alleged treatments & cures, most of which on the whole don't work for many people. We shall see.
 
#290
Excellent post Steve. That definitely sounds like a response from a serious reputable organization. Agree with you 100%.
 
#291
Well guys been awhile since I posted but seeming that Im Irish thought Id just say my two cents worth,few months back I commented that this device hadnt even been mentioned once in Ireland,no advertiseing ENTS hadnt even heard of it but this is no longer the case,I have seen this device,multiple times,advertised on TV and ENTS seem to be mentioning this device but not recommending it(which kinda points to the lack of testing or proof of testing).At this stage little is known about it but once Im a bit more informed on it I may purchase this device in the near future and post my results here.Just cant determine at this stage if its snake oil.Cheers peeps
 
#292
Hi! Thanks bill 112. Im hopeful about this treatment and we are awaiting the results and the testimonial of some user. In a few months it will be available in the rest of europe. Thanks
 
#294
briano said:
If anyone purchases and uses this device, please let us know what you think of it.
Click to expand...
I second that.

I'm very interested in the audio component of it. Would love to know more; is it like ACRN or have they developed a different type of stimulation?
 
#295
nills said:
Look man, I take your question serious and give you an answer ... you reply with the same pessimistic doubts ... where from I clearly can understand you did n`t follow the link I added and my advice of following it ... watch the bloody documentary! (imagine smiley here - with his tongue sticking out)
Click to expand...

I have seen the documentary. Nothing new to be honest. They talk about:
1. Amputate a limb --> sensory maps change --> might be the pathology that drives phantoms perceptions.
2. If you pay attention to a stimulus you will improve performance (a.k.a. normal learning)
3. for phantom perceptions there are ways to alleviate the perception. It has proven that it is relatively easy to fool the brain in thinking the missing limb is still there and hence lifting the phantom pain.

My question is: How are you going to use this for tinnitus?

I would like MuteButton to show us research from the last decade about tongue tickling and driving plastic changes in the brain. Followed by:
1. a theoretical modal that explains the mechanisms of action.
2. or show us you can repeat it (even if you might not understand point 1.). By "it" i mean --> drive specific plastic changes in the brain you want to change.

If you can do that, propose some mechanism or strategy that is going to "cure" tinnitus. How are you proposing the reverse the abnormal neural activity for tinnitus...? If you are selling the MP# player for 2500 a piece....tell us how it is supposed to work.....
 
#296
@Sjoerd I still don`t think you really saw it ... the documentary shows a woman who has a balance disorder. She is completely unable to stand or walk straight and is constantly falling and feeling like she is on the ocean being seasick ... just standing on normal surface. They give her a helmet that measures how straight she is standing, if she is tipping over or tipping back or left or right ... this helmet is connected by a wire to a device that is sending electrical impulses to her tongue! (exactly as mutebutton).. than she wears the helmet and through the electrical impulses she can feel if she stands straight with eyes closed ...after various sessions the brain has re-learned what it means to stand straight and she no longer needs the helmet - she is cured!! this we call brain plasticity.

and to know that balance organ is situated in the ears.

How is it possible you overlooked this and still doubt that this system is valuable ... ? ... I don`t understand.
 
#297
nills said:
@Sjoerd I still don`t think you really saw it ... the documentary shows a woman who has a balance disorder. She is completely unable to stand or walk straight and is constantly falling and feeling like she is on the ocean being seasick ... just standing on normal surface. They give her a helmet that measures how straight she is standing, if she is tipping over or tipping back or left or right ... this helmet is connected by a wire to a device that is sending electrical impulses to her tongue! (exactly as mutebutton).. than she wears the helmet and through the electrical impulses she can feel if she stands straight with eyes closed ...after various sessions the brain has re-learned what it means to stand straight and she no longer needs the helmet - she is cured!! this we call brain plasticity.

and to know that balance organ is situated in the ears.

How is it possible you overlooked this and still doubt that this system is valuable ... ? ... I don`t understand.
Click to expand...

I have seen it. 1st, balance requires much more than just your inner ear balance organ. Try standing on one foot with your eyes closed...pretty difficult at first. but you will learn. After a while you can tilt your head backwards with your eyes closed and not lose balance. You simple teach your brain to rely on other senses to balance (tactile feedback for your muscles and visual input). The electrode is "just" a reference signal for the brain that will tell her if she is in balance. This is the feedback she needs in order to strengthen other neural pathways. In the end, her doing the training is the mechanism driving the plastic change. This will not work is she does not pay attention to the training.

Now for tinnitus...how is this supposed to work...? I do not have an answer to this question. If you are selling this thing for 2500 $ a pop you should at least be able to answer this question.
 
#298
all your questions should be put to the scientists that invented it ...

but to answer your question, they did explain it in their first website.

they give sounds to the ear, in a specific frequency with specific wave forms ... they link these sounds to the frequency of the electricity they send through the tongue. This way the brain has 2 inputs and thus the sound input is empowered in the brain. So the brain can distinguish between the empowered sound and the not empowered sound (tinnitus) ... tinnitus if you could record it and slow it down you would see it is a pattern.. it is like morse-code ... because the sound is generated by the neurons firing and discharging ... so the new sounds introduced are not morse coded ... they are same frequency but diffrent shapes and this way we retrain the brain to block the morsecoded one and refocus on the real sound coming from the ear ... that is why they have to adjust each device to the patient because they have to retrain to specific frequencies.

anyway you are one of those `got to see it to believe it people` ... very hard to talk to because they have little faith in life and are not creative with their minds ... maybe best you buy the device ;)
 
#299
nills said:
they give sounds to the ear, in a specific frequency with specific wave forms ... they link these sounds to the frequency of the electricity they send through the tongue. This way the brain has 2 inputs and thus the sound input is empowered in the brain.
Click to expand...
This is something you should be able to see on an fMRI (or something like that). Show us that after therapy neurons are better at performing a task. Or they might not be better in the end, but learning was much faster. Or neurons tended to increase response to input A and decrease response to input B.

Show us...! Show us that you can direct plasticity. I want them to show us things that are readily available for vagus nerve stimulation. Just enter "vns brain plasticity" and have a look. Many papers on how vagus nerve stimulation drive plastic change in the brain. The do not know exactly how it works, but the results are consistent over a wide group of sensory input. In short: pair vns with a stimulus and the brain starts to pay attention to it.

For tongue tickling....nothing. The only thing I can find is about blind people learning to see with their tongue. Compared to non-visual impaired test subjects they tend to learn a little bit faster and tend to use different part of the brain to "solve" the task. MuteButton is claiming 10 years of research.....at least some of it must be release by now...don't you think? I asked them about a year ago about research. I got exactly the same answer is I got now. we are waiting for god knows what.....but selling it in the meantime. I truly do not understand.....!

Give us something to work with....


nills said:
anyway you are one of those `got to see it to believe it people` ... very hard to talk to because they have little faith in life and are not creative with their minds ... maybe best you buy the device ;)
Click to expand...


No I am not......I am the kind of people that say....prove it if you sell it!
 
#300
@Sjoerd I guess w`ll have to wait untill someone is going to buy it. Today I will see a specialist and mention the mutebutton. I might buy it when it comes to Europe mainland. I`m just too sick and tired of T to even question things so deep anymore ... need something.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Log in or register to get the full forum benefits!

Register

Register on Tinnitus Talk for free!

Register Now
Top Bottom
Back
Forums
Members
Donate
Menu