MuteButton

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#361
Vagus nerve simply tries to get to brain to fire plasticity. This does the same. Firing electric through any nerve will do the same thing. Vagus maybe more effective given you use tongue for taste etc also. But principle is the same. All nerves are connected. Its the same idea. Neuromonics and brain rewiring. All of these methods are similar.
Wondering if acrn plus tongue tip could give better results. Even acupunture via nerves can force neuro plasticity, pictures, flashing images, exercise. Its just trying to speed up what could be possible by months of acrn or years of hearing aid amplifcation plus missing frequency noise.

Not saying the nerves are connected directly - just method gets to brain the same way. Its been very quiet on news agreed but no need to be that sceptical. They will do more trails im sure and believe this plus acrn, vagus, all this work will build to a later more ideal solution.

Its basic but makes sense if you agree with neuomonics and brains ability to adapt. Proof is in the pudding. But maybe worth a shot.

Agree re women balance. The lady with 2 percent function. That used sensory arrays. This mentions that but in fact is direct nerve stimulation via electrodes. I don't get the Multi sensory link given they mention the tongue tip can be used in several places and pressure points. They even confirm in link.its mainly zwicker tone interference and blocking signal with forced high frequency input to brain. Forced by electrodes...

Hey it may not work but some show a drop and for me thats hope. I see why you be defensive and testing mate. Plus electrodes sound like fringe science at its best. Link may help. Had to dig around. Not sure they know its public
 
#363
Ok one more. From most recent vagus nerve details sent (very detailed).

As shown in FIG. 6, an implant system 100 may include an electrode 130, typically a cuff electrode. The electrode 130 is connected by a lead 120 to an implantable pulse generator (IPG) 110. The electrode 130 provides the electrical stimulation pulse train in close proximity to the vagus nerve. The lead 120 conveys the electrical current to stimulate the vagus nerve from the IPG 110 to the electrode 130. The IPG 110 includes internal software to receive commands from a clinical controller140 as well as providing safety features. An example of a transcutaneous electrical stimulation system that could be adapted for use in the described therapy may be found in U.S. Pat. No. 7,797,042. Stimulation of the vagus nerve may be done at other sites along the vagus nerve and branches of the vagus nerve.


Branch of vagus is the tongue ok differnet nerve name and once removed..... Same deal but available now without transplant.

http://teachmeanatomy.info/head/cranial-nerves/vagus-nerve-cn-x/

Quote
4 branches - one
Special Sensory: Provides taste sensation to the epiglottis and root of the tongue.

End quote

Tongue eletrodes will fire onto vagus nerve, both trying to hit brain rewire. Yet VNS will be very expensive and years away. SO surely this worth a shot. Thats why im doing so much reviewing. Assume silence from firm is them seeking journal approvals on top of CE.
Hope this all helps at least. Both base neuromonics with frankinstein electricity
 
#364
SteveO said:
Ok one more. From most recent vagus nerve details sent (very detailed).

As shown in FIG. 6, an implant system 100 may include an electrode 130, typically a cuff electrode. The electrode 130 is connected by a lead 120 to an implantable pulse generator (IPG) 110. The electrode 130 provides the electrical stimulation pulse train in close proximity to the vagus nerve. The lead 120 conveys the electrical current to stimulate the vagus nerve from the IPG 110 to the electrode 130. The IPG 110 includes internal software to receive commands from a clinical controller140 as well as providing safety features. An example of a transcutaneous electrical stimulation system that could be adapted for use in the described therapy may be found in U.S. Pat. No. 7,797,042. Stimulation of the vagus nerve may be done at other sites along the vagus nerve and branches of the vagus nerve.


Branch of vagus is the tongue ok differnet nerve name and once removed..... Same deal but available now without transplant.

http://teachmeanatomy.info/head/cranial-nerves/vagus-nerve-cn-x/

Quote
4 branches - one
Special Sensory: Provides taste sensation to the epiglottis and root of the tongue.

End quote

Tongue eletrodes will fire onto vagus nerve, both trying to hit brain rewire. Yet VNS will be very expensive and years away. SO surely this worth a shot. Thats why im doing so much reviewing. Assume silence from firm is them seeking journal approvals on top of CE.
Hope this all helps at least. Both base neuromonics with frankinstein electricity
Click to expand...


I don't know what area they are stimulating with the MuteButton device but to stimulate the vagus one would have to stimulate the soft palete and not the tounge.

The tounge has two larger nerves connected to it. The trigeminal nerve and the hypoglossal nerve. Both of wich are part of the sympathic nerve system and none of those are connected to the the hippocampus (the area of the brain imortant for learning). The vagus seems to have a connection to hippocampus though.

Also the vagus nerve is part of the parasymphatetic nerve system that uses acetylcholine as the main neurotransmitter. The sympathic nerve system uses norephinephrine as the main transmittor.

The VNS study points to the realese of acetylcholine to the brain as the main chemical that coupled with the correct sounds makes the treatment work.

I have too little info about MuteButton but these are my concerns. So I'm wondering what their hyphotesis is? Why would the stimulation of the tounge work when the vagus is not being stimulated?

In their defence norephinephrine has also been shown to be importatnt in learning.

Here are some links to support my statements:

https://12cranialnerves.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/hypoglossal_nerve.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...normal_inferior_view_with_labels_en-2.svg.png

http://www.ndrf.org/ans.html

http://faculty.virginia.edu/behvr-neuro-lab/
 
#365
Good data mate. Confused though as read very tip of tongue connects to vagus (taste) vs other parts. The actual sound differs also. Vns being acrn, stimulating around tinnitus sound. So draw back, if your like me, you have multiple and no single tone. I prefer the broadband amplifed noise idea with nerve stimulus as agree more with the zwicker principle. Else notched noise therapy would work.

But we are moving off topic. The simularity is nerve stimulation with neuromonics. Not vagus vs tongue of course.

Two differnet nerves
Two different neuromonics. One off the t noise to reduce synchronised firing. The other on t noise and aroubd to give the brain the missing sounds to remove zwicker effect, and force it to calm down the amplificatiom to hear out for the missing frequencies.

Vns will only work well for single tone t so big negative for me same as acrn. Broadband amplified spectrum makes way more sense.

One however is available now. IF i was asked would you spend 1000 euro to be picked for trails on either i would. Here.... ONE is out and out and information is slowly coming fwd. both make sense to me scientifically

But with the recent detailed data on this and vns its getting highly promising development wise. Esp as non drug methods.

https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/detail.jsf?docId=WO2015028549

See documents. Tsken from september 2014 to april 4th just for them to publish. The lack of information isnt mutebutton its the incredable long winded patent process. Unreal. See details. Use same website for all vns reports and loggings etc. nuts.

Quote from vns patent
Neurostimulation does not behave in a predictable fashion. Different stimulation locations produce different results, even when both locations are cranial nerves. For example, synchronization in the cerebral cortex is a manifestation of epilepsy. Stimulating the vagus nerve causes desynchronization of the cortex neurons, which has been proposed as a potential mechanism for how vagus stimulation prevents an epileptic seizure. Stimulation of the trigeminal nerve, another cranial nerve, causes desynchronization as well. To determine whether the plasticity induced by VNS is specific to the vagus nerve, we paired stimulation of the trigeminal nerve with a 19 kHz tone. However, when we paired trigeminal stimulation with a tone, in the same way we paired VNS with a tone, we did not observe any plasticity that was specific to the paired tone. Pairing the trigeminal stimulation with a tone at a given frequency did not change the response to that frequency even though it caused desynchronization as in the previous study. Each stimulation location is unique across the full range of effects. It appears that VNS may be uniquely suited to direct cortical plasticity and suggests that the vagus nerve is likely a key conduit by which the autonomic nervous system informs the central nervous system of important stimuli.

The VNS pamng therapy is more than the sum of its constituent parts. Simply playing a tone at a given frequency, without VNS, does not result in a change in response to the frequency. Similarly, VNS by itself did not produce any changes in response to any frequency. Only by precisely pairing VNS with a tone at a given frequency induces a change in response to the frequency.

Both VNS pairing and nucleus basalis stimulation (NBS) pairing have been shown to change the number of neurons responding to a paired frequency. To be effective, the current amplitude parameter of the stimulation for VNS pairing is more than twice the current amplitude used for NBS pairing. There is an important difference between the neuromodulators released by NBS from those released by VNS, so significant differences between the results of NBS and VNS are expected.
Click to expand...

Etc

But mutebutton even mention any form of nerve stimulus could work etc and mention vns
In other embodiments of the invention, other forms of haptic stimulus may be utilized. Other devices are envisaged that deliver haptic stimulus on the body surface (which has the advantage of being totally transcutaneous and therefore non-invasive), preferably to a location that is innervated by afferent cranial nerves, more preferably that is innervated by afferent trigeminal nerve, and most preferably in a region that has a high density of such afferent nerve fibres. Examples include devices configured to deliver force/pressure stimulus on the surface of the forehead; devices that have a tactile pin array for contact with the surface of the tongue; devices that have a tactile pin array for contact with one or more finger tips (electro-Braille); or devices that have a vibration actuator for contact with the surface of the tongue. In addition to haptic stimulus, other forms of ancillary stimulus (to accompany audio stimulus) are envisaged. Devices are envisaged that deliver stimulus by way of transcranial electrical stimulation (TES), transcranial magnetic stimulation (TMS), transcranial direct-current stimulation (tDCS) or deep-brain stimulation (DBS) to directly stimulate regions of the brain. Also devices are envisaged that deliver stimulus by way of implantable nerve stimulators such as Vagus Nerve Stimulation (VNS) and Spinal Cord Stimulators (SNS). Furthermore, devices are envisaged that deliver stimulus by by way of pharmacological neuromodulation agents such as GABA, MDMA, AMPT, SSRIs and Opioid peptides.

In addition to this, further devices are envisaged that deliver ancillary stimulus in the form of visual stimulus. Visual patterns displayed to the patient that could be displayed on a monitor, through eye-wear (i.e. Google Glass), or by flashing lights viewable in the patients peripheral vision.
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Essentiall to repeat a point ... All forcing plasticity. This is why these guys need to work together.

I would assume the noise and heavy accupunture... Aka nerve trauma forced stimulus could also help or gaba induced drugs or hallucigens.
 
#366
Check this. Maybe why mine soared to horrific levels post dental work... But after i had t via noise induced loss t for 10 years. Plus link with tongue nerve stimulus...

http://www.tinnitusformula.com/library/facial-nerves-overactive-contribute-to-tinnitus-intensity/

Maybe not co incudence i got major t from loud speaker but same time an abcess in tooth burst causing nerve trauma. Ive got to try this considering that link up

If above link is correct makes huge sense for mine. Always said it was noise and nerve trauma (as otherwise all mates would have got t... Was just me.... ). Even for gun shot... Vibration destroying face nerves plus noise. The link up vs pure sound.

If its the face nerves that connect to make brain / ear hyper this will work far more than pure brain neuro plasticity....i need to study this connection esp for my t version.

Wow... Ok.... This actually states dental work... After noise induced t... Which connects. This is what actually occured but never found a link up. Same work just more ino.... http://www.med.umich.edu/opm/newspage/2008/tinnitus.htm
 
#367
http://www.uofmhealth.org/news/arch...s-discovery-opens-door-possible-new-treatment

Wow ok... So exact same idea as mutebutton and theory now makes sense. Fyi when i bite my t soars, made worse by facial nerves etc.... All this matches my issues i have. She mentions timings... And neck. So some cross between her, mutebutton, vagus, all on the same track. But this connection with multi sensory and touch... Well susan shore, her work backs this mutebutton science up 100 percent
 
#368
This is massive. Never saw this link up. This is 110 percent the reason for my t. Touch nerves filling the void. Weird but alot of reading for me. Note also the potassium modifier article bottom of link

http://www.jneurosci.org/content/32/45/15791.abstract


Touch nerves thereforce, post noise damage, then come into play. So on holiday i get major nerve trauma... After 5 days of massive noise. I get t no one else. Then t worse with more cranial nerve trauma. Despite nerve not being sound connected.... But touch connected. Well tooth nerve so miles from sound nerve... Until this giant proof and link
.......

Eurika!!! :). Least i know why now!!! :)
 
#369
All this is blowing my mind. Proof again post hearing loss, the touch nerves go hyper, regrow, and actually gain some form of auditory input. But they cant make use if it. Like code. Hence comes out as hyper cross wires

Again mutebutton actually relays a users auditory loss as a map... On the tongue. Either to reverse it.. Or... Train a touch nerve in dcn to an auditory one. V v clever. Massively following this now as firmly believe t is from other nerves trying to err help. Why a blind man has better sense of touch and other senses. Etc

http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2009/03/20/0809483106.full.pdf
These somatosensory response properties observed in sub- cortical auditory areas of hearing animals are remarkably similar to those of the somatosensory neurons found in the deafened auditory cortex. Furthermore, a significant increase in cross- modal somatosensory responsiveness in the dorsal cochlear nucleus has been observed after just 2 weeks of hearing loss in adults (46). In addition to unmasking of existing inputs to sub-cortical auditory structures, axonal sprouting and ingrowth

of new connections may also occur at these locations. In fact, such a scenario has been demonstrated for intra-modal somato- sensory reorganization following limb de-afferentation in adults, in which axonal sprouting in the medulla, where afferents from the trigeminal nucleus grow into the deprived cuneate nucleus, result in massive somatosensory cortical remodeling (47). There- fore, it is possible that deafness-induced changes in somatosen- sory processing at the sub-cortical level could account for the massive redistribution of that information manifested as cortical cross-modal reorganization. Furthermore, given that the audi- tory pathways are highly crossed in their projections from brainstem to cortex, deafness-induced somatic inputs to the first station of this relay (40, 46) could generate a large proportion of bilateral receptive fields at higher levels, as was observed.

Regardless of the mechanism, the finding that the adult auditory system extensively remodels its cortical representations to process signals from the body surface indicates that deafened auditory cortex recovers the function of receiving and pro- cessing patterned input signals. Whether a reorganized brain of this type can actually make functional or perceptual use of the re-routed somatosensory information is not known, but it certainly increases the complexity of the problems facing efforts to re-activate a de-afferented auditory system with neuroprosthetic implants.
Click to expand...


http://www.jneurosci.org/content/32/5/1660

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/02/120201092301.htm

http://www.nature.com/srep/2015/150325/srep09462/full/srep09462.html

Regardless huge developments underway. Better neuromonics coming.... Needs multi nerve. This at least address two. Noted on many reports states use touch aka elecrode before sound.... Else does reverse and boosts tinitus essentially... Wonder if muteb people see that. As results are huge for some zero for others. Maybe why? (Taken from website research on non responders vs rapid responders. Mainly 2 years or more t responded better etc)
 
#371
Mute button need some more people trying it and needs to be trialled on here, to gain statically accurate results. Their money back guarantee is pitiful to be honest.
 
#372
Stink said:
@SteveO NOBODY wants to read your essays.make them shorter and to the point.please.
Click to expand...

It is a summary given its about 20 hours of reading around muti sensory analysis. If you buy me some wax crayons maybe i can draw you a basic picture that you need. In some mutli sensory for dummies guide. Given all the positives via PM i will ignore your dumb comment. Skip it if you dont want to read an 'essay' . Just you need to take time to get this concept. Its actually quite q mqjor breakthrough for some tinnitus suffers, esp long term ones, that notice post noise induced loss you have other nerve circuits actually doing some very odd things. Trying to be helpful. Your comment. Isnt. Adds nothing to the analysis or theory, or well, anything. Congrats bud.
 
#373
SteveO said:
It is a summary given its about 20 hours of reading around muti sensory analysis. If you buy me some wax crayons maybe i can draw you a basic picture that you need. In some mutli sensory for dummies guide. Given all the positives via PM i will ignore your dumb comment. Skip it if you dont want to read an 'essay' . Just you need to take time to get this concept. Its actually quite q mqjor breakthrough for some tinnitus suffers, esp long term ones, that notice post noise induced loss you have other nerve circuits actually doing some very odd things. Trying to be helpful. Your comment. Isnt. Adds nothing to the analysis or theory, or well, anything. Congrats bud.
Click to expand...

Well, we all need detailed answers for this sort of technology. Thanks for sharing. Anyway, you two, there's no point in arguing. SteveO, you're only trying to help and Stink, nobody's forcing you to read it. So let's calm down and get along.
 
#376
There information is lacking agreed. Not arguing that. Just the science makes a lot of sense. Even in the blind, the touch nerves go haywire and try to fill in the optic nerves with... the wrong nerves. Makes no sense directly but im with the science on that and its proven quite heavily.

And note apologies for the multiple posts and to Stink. Although you could have phrased that a bit nicer.
I would if I had time do one quick summary, but Easter, with in laws over, and a 5 year old, just wrote when I had time. The fact is ive had tinnitus 10 years, and noted heavily that, despite it being caused by noise loss, for sure, my other touch nerves caused it to spike. I.e. nerves in the teeth, that should only feel pain and be unrelated, caused changes to tinnitus. I don't believe dental is the cause, I have heavy noise induced loss from constantly loud speaker volumes. Ripping apart my cochlear hairs. But the new evidence that the touch nerves, try and fill the gap, makes a lot of sense given now my ringing is a joined to totally different nerve endings... This is why drugs that, doctors cant figure out, that effect your other nerves (touch suppression) lower T... ones that don't effect auditory nerves etc but OTHER nerves that shre the DCN. This is why when biting down on your jaw, when you have NOISE induced T, the volume can change or spike. A nerve is in the wrong place / reacting and hyper.

Agree mutebutton is basic in concept, lacks info, needs more trails. But I agree with the science (not that any has been supplied by them, the main patent report I had to find myself....)and its available now. So worth pop for some. Cost is far lower than ACRN. It does have CE mark. Ireland is one big trail essentially. You can also see on their research it states:

Worked better for people who have had tinnitus over 2 years. There are heavy responders then none responders. Plus they will only give the treatment (sell it) for some.

Lets see how people get on. But the "its fake" just doesn't ring true and that's what promoted me to comment. Its still a solid neuromonic concept based on a critical DCN cross nerve wiring. Its beaten Susan Shore to the punch and been years in getting released. The reason for UK delays, probably is due to the lack of data, hence assume new trails (you can sign up on website)
 
#378
This thread should just wait for the first reports from people actually trying the device. If you;re looking for hard proof, then probably you should only check back here in 5 years for proof of anything.
RTG seems to work for people but no proof
Cats claw seems to be helping some people no proof
LLLT
Stem cell
Etc
etc
 
#379
Do not saturate the forum please. We await the response of the two users Mute that posted it for months. If no one is saturated follow the threads. Let us reserve feedback to users to make it more accessible.

Sorry English translator. I speak bad Inglés.
 
#385
Danny Boy said:
where's everyone gone?
Click to expand...

Sorry, my english is not good.
I would like to continue with this issue, if is posible, as will shortly be launched in the rest of Europe, and later to the United States, etc.
One can try to deduce from previous messages (trying to figure out something) that MuteButton is something we know very little about. It is probably the attempt of developing a technology that maybe is based on the ability of the neurotransmitter norephinephrine for telling the mind to learn this or that, by stimulating the trigeminal nerve, linked with sounds (white noise or something along with a piano).
At first sight, there seems not to be so powerful treatment like VNS, as acetylcholine and implant in the vagus nerve seems to be more effective in getting reduce tinnitus.
Please, correct me if I'm wrong
There seems to be no too many public clinical trials, nor many users, so maybe one can conclude that the treatment is not as effective as proclaimed on its website.
It seems that MuteButton is clear business-oriented and that obscures many aspects of treatment.
Therefore, it would be interesting to have a very detailed experience with this device, to find out which cases the device may be useful or not useful, and to decide what to do or not do with this topic.
Therefore, please, if the users @Tinman and @john mc garrity are around here, as well as some other user, and want to say something, good or bad, It would be very useful, I think
Please. Did you noticed any decrease?
I don't want to bother anyone.
I understand if you don't want to say nothing. Thanks.
 
#386
pghrra said:
Sorry, my english is not good.
I would like to continue with this issue, if is posible, as will shortly be launched in the rest of Europe, and later to the United States, etc.
One can try to deduce from previous messages (trying to figure out something) that MuteButton is something we know very little about. It is probably the attempt of developing a technology that maybe is based on the ability of the neurotransmitter norephinephrine for telling the mind to learn this or that, by stimulating the trigeminal nerve, linked with sounds (white noise or something along with a piano).
At first sight, there seems not to be so powerful treatment like VNS, as acetylcholine and implant in the vagus nerve seems to be more effective in getting reduce tinnitus.
Please, correct me if I'm wrong
There seems to be no too many public clinical trials, nor many users, so maybe one can conclude that the treatment is not as effective as proclaimed on its website.
It seems that MuteButton is clear business-oriented and that obscures many aspects of treatment.
Therefore, it would be interesting to have a very detailed experience with this device, to find out which cases the device may be useful or not useful, and to decide what to do or not do with this topic.
Therefore, please, if the users @Tinman and @john mc garrity are around here, as well as some other user, and want to say something, good or bad, It would be very useful, I think
Please. Did you noticed any decrease?
I don't want to bother anyone.
I understand if you don't want to say nothing. Thanks.
Click to expand...

Yeah, a big shame that nobody given us news if it works...A near 50% decrease would be amazing.
 
#388
pghrra said:
Please, correct me if I'm wrong
There seems to be no too many public clinical trials, nor many users, so maybe one can conclude that the treatment is not as effective as proclaimed on its website.
.
Click to expand...

Just means that people suffering from Tinnitus go to their ENT and follow their advice.. some of those are lucky and role into clinical trials. Only a handful in the whole world (7000 out of millions - checking the amount of people on TT) are bothered and interested enough / have the attitude and intelligence to go and look for a cure themselves ...

I see I misunderstood your point .. i don`t know ... they did their tests and will come with more info in the future ... who knows when.
 
#389
Just an update here. I don't post much on the forum these days but in my desperation last year I would, like many here considered Mutebutton. Got an email from them today containing information regarding a "refund scheme". Once things had gotten better for me, in the cold light of day I realised Mutebutton probably isn't worth the money, I feel this further enforces the fact that it is little more than a well meaning idea with inconclusive results. The refund only serves to lure more into a sale.

"We anticipate that most patients will be very satisfied with their results after 70 days and excited to continue treatment however, if at your appointment you aren't entirely happy with your results and would like to discontinue your treatment, we will be offering a 90 day refund guarantee of €1,500 on return of the device, subject to our guarantee scheme terms and conditions. For more information on our new policy, visit mutebutton.ie/product-refund-guarantee"
 
#390
Greg Clarke said:
Just an update here. I don't post much on the forum these days but in my desperation last year I would, like many here considered Mutebutton. Got an email from them today containing information regarding a "refund scheme". Once things had gotten better for me, in the cold light of day I realised Mutebutton probably isn't worth the money, I feel this further enforces the fact that it is little more than a well meaning idea with inconclusive results. The refund only serves to lure more into a sale.

"We anticipate that most patients will be very satisfied with their results after 70 days and excited to continue treatment however, if at your appointment you aren't entirely happy with your results and would like to discontinue your treatment, we will be offering a 90 day refund guarantee of €1,500 on return of the device, subject to our guarantee scheme terms and conditions. For more information on our new policy, visit mutebutton.ie/product-refund-guarantee"
Click to expand...

Yeah, so they keep 1000....Rip off.
 
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