MuteButton

[grate_biff]

In your esteemed opinion... what is a habituation device? What does such a thing do?

It tries to make your brain focus away from the perception of tinnitus. Just like he said in the podcast.
And that is just not good enough for me. I need it gone to be helped because the pitch of my tinnitus is INSANELY high.

 

[dayma]

I have experimented with DIY bi-modal stimulation along with a few others on here and Reddit. I can attest that this is not habituation. You can easily modulate your tinnitus up/down. Sustaining a "down" for any length of time is and was the challenge.

*I am NOT saying people should try DIY stuff as there may be health risks.

 

[kelpiemsp]

It tries to make your brain focus away from the perception of tinnitus. Just like he said in the podcast.
And that is just not good enough for me. I need it gone to be helped because the pitch of my tinnitus is INSANELY high.

Oh? And what if making your brain focus on something else reduces the volume, pitch, and intensity?

 

[GlennS]

Bob Marley, I don't want to wait in vain for my love.

Oh my lovely MuteButton, your sensuous curves and seductive electronic pulses,
I yearn for you, to caress your your plastic and warm metal to my lips, to lick you, to lavish you as a lover should be seduced, letting go, losing control.

Quivering and quaking as you make sweet love to my ears.
Oh MuteButton, where art thou.

Please come... I yearn for you... my lovely, sweet, angelic, MuteButton.

I don't know if this post is more amusing than "I'll post my bewbs if it's less than 3,000 euros" but it comes close.

 

[GlennS]

The device needs a patent so Neuromod can reap the profits. Only makes sense that they will not market the device till they have the exclusive rights.

Patents and trademarks are two different things. Trademarks merely protect a name. Patents protect inventions.

What I do know about trademarks is you can not receive a final trademark unless you're actually selling something. I don't know if experimental devices being used for trials count. You can get trademark extensions if you prove you're still intending to sell, but those extensions eventually run out over a period of a few years (in the US at least).

 

[GlennS]

It tries to make your brain focus away from the perception of tinnitus. Just like he said in the podcast.

I think in the process of trying to put things in layman terms that Dr. Lim made it sound that way but that's not how it's been described before. It has been described as actually stopping the neurons from false-firing.

What I speculated on before was that Neuromod and related research doesn't truly know the mechanism of stimulation parameters and a given effect. I'm not going to transcribe what he said, but he confirmed this in the podcast as far as I'm concerned.

Just as in the Q&A video, Dr. Lim talks about how they learned that synchronous is better than asynchronous. And he pretty much says unequivocably that there's reason to believe that further research will uncover how different parameters (tone/timing/etc...) can work better overall or tailored to different patients.

So this is painting a portrait of a method of treatment that is very much in the babysteps phase, and unfortunately it's really time-consuming to run these tests to determine if a different combination of stimulation works better or worse than before.

 

[Mentos]

It tries to make your brain focus away from the perception of tinnitus. Just like he said in the podcast.
And that is just not good enough for me. I need it gone to be helped because the pitch of my tinnitus is INSANELY high.

I hope you are wrong, we don't need another habituation service for €3K.

 

[grate_biff]

Oh? And what if making your brain focus on something else reduces the volume, pitch, and intensity?

Well, that would be nice, but it just seems that approach works only for the few...

 

[Rings-a-Bell]

The irony is, so far the only "silence" that MuteButton has created for anyone is in their press releases and product updates for the last 6 months. The problem is irony is not a good marketing strategy and I am beginning to wonder if their current silence is just a cover for other problems... like upon further testing it isn't really doing what they initially thought it would.

 

[EDDTEKK]

Neuromod should help getting longer lasting effects compared to the existing treatments? I don't know any which helps tinnitus actually, even rTMS doesn't help. Mindfulness doesn't help severe cases - we need brain plasticity and reduction in volume

 

[GlennS]

the only "silence" that MuteButton has created for anyone is in their press releases and product updates for the last 6 months

Demonstrably false. Have you read through this thread? Because this statement sure reads like someone who just barged in and decided to just take a quick dump.

It's sad that nuance is so hard to come by on the internet...

It's not that there isn't reason to be concerned. But most here agree that there is indeed a beneficial effect of this treatment with at least some patients, not just placebo. How much of an effect remains to be seen. Those who are looking for miracle cures are no doubt going to be disappointed. Those looking for at least a partial tinnitus reduction are likely to find relief through this or a similar devices down the line.

Lim's interview from the podcast was recorded not that long ago and he pointed to the results of the most recent test being pretty consistent with the previous one. So I think the delays are probably not due to anything serious, although I do believe they should revise their ETAs.

 

[Agrajag364]

The irony is, so far the only "silence" that MuteButton has created for anyone is in their press releases and product updates for the last 6 months. The problem is irony is not a good marketing strategy and I am beginning to wonder if their current silence is just a cover for other problems... like upon further testing it isn't really doing what they initially thought it would.

The peer review process can take a long time, if it is the publication of their trial they are waiting on. The reviewers can ask for further analysis of the data.

 

[Rohov Dmytro]

I think in general the news are great. For me it's better to have a positive perspective. There is a chance to have something soon that can help.

The worst thing happening right now is that we are given some hope. Not bad at all. But what we need to do is to manage our expectations. The world is quite complicated and following deadlines is not always easy.

Let's hope the device is launched as soon as they can.

 

[Bob den Hartog]

This used to be a thread I liked to frequent, not just for news on the Neuromod, but simply because it's the most exciting thing happening in the field in terms of treatment.

I don't anymore, because it's full of negativity with posters regurgitating the same false assumptions, connecting it with worst-case-scenario conclusions, or actively looking for things they can bash.

 

[Agatha]

This used to be a thread I liked to frequent, not just for news on the Neuromod, but simply because it's the most exciting thing happening in the field in terms of treatment.

I don't anymore, because it's full of negativity with posters regurgitating the same false assumptions, connecting it with worst-case-scenario conclusions, or actively looking for things they can bash.

I would blame Neuromod, not the posters. Neuromod has been awful with their public relations.

(o' and I bet you can't stay away from this thread...)

 

[Rohov Dmytro]

I can share another perspective of mine. Maybe processes that are happening inside Neuromod before the device's release are too complicated to be shared publicly. Maybe there are too many «if, else» things or vague dependencies they don't have control over.

In other words. Neuromod release date is dependent upon something not very concrete so they can't give a strong promise.

I still have a good feeling and lots of hope. Let's stay positive.

 

[Amv]

I think in general the news are great. For me it's better to have a positive perspective. There is a chance to have something soon that can help.

The worst thing happening right now is that we are given some hope. Not bad at all. But what we need to do is to manage our expectations. The world is quite complicated and following deadlines is not always easy.

Let's hope the device is launched as soon as they can.

Absolutely. Neuromod have been working on this for at least 10 years, everyday of their lives, and they have been engaged in vast scientific clinical trials. Many people from here didn't even have tinnitus when the MuteButton project was started (like me), so please let's support them, let them feel our support.

It will be the first treatment for tinnitus that is launched.

 

[GamesB2]

Absolutely. Neuromod have been working on this for at least 10 years, everyday of their lives, and they have been engaged in vast scientific clinical trials. Many people from here didn't even have tinnitus when the MuteButton project was started (like me), so please let's support them, let them feel our support.

It will be the first treatment for tinnitus that is launched.

They 100% have my support but damn I do wish they'd say something meaningful, the wait is torturous!

 

[Bob den Hartog]

I would blame Neuromod, not the posters. Neuromod has been awful with their public relations.x

Completely disagree. They have done a Q&A with this forum that shares lots of info, which seems to be completely disregarded by posters here, since lots of the negativity can be disputed by what is said in this video. It's a small team working around the clock to get this to market, but apparently posters prefer them to spend their resources on PR and marketing.

(o' and I bet you can't stay away from this thread...)

Once in a while, but less and less, as it leaves me more and more irritated by negative posters. We need hope and positivity, as our conditions are negative enough. We need to show, also to newbies, that people are working on treatments. Instead, when they now enter this thread, they face false cynicism and negative assumptions that's already been disputed by information already released and discussed extensively. People apparently have complete disregard for this, and prefer negative attitudes.

 

[jmasterj]

Completely disagree. They have done a Q&A with this forum that shares lots of info, which seems to be completely disregarded by posters here, since lots of the negativity can be disputed by what is said in this video. It's a small team working around the clock to get this to market, but apparently posters prefer them to spend their resources on PR and marketing.

I think that is the problem with coming in here once in a while and making assumptions. There has been some frustration from posters here because several have reached out to Neuromod and they have given vague responses such as "soon" or "very soon" and @Markku reached out to them for a response and he received nothing. It took a lot of work for the staff here to produce and put that video together and it was very positive PR for them. At the very least they could give him a statement. It is not fair to call everybody out over negativity when you are doing the same thing. I agree with what you are saying, just don't be part of the problem, be a solution.

My greatest wish is that we could rally together and work like we did with Susan Shore's write-up in STAT magazine. When we get together we can truly achieve great things.

Everyone has a right to be skeptical and that is human nature. I do think some could portray Hubert Lim's statement to think this is another habituation device. I don't believe at all that is what he meant. It just wasn't a good analogy. We know this type of stimulation works. We have members here that it has worked for.

 

[TimmyC]

I would also like to interject and say that, although Neuromod has been relatively quiet as of late, remember that they are hard at work with this technology and we will most likely see something soon.

For so many years no one has been open about trying to fix this problem, and now we have multiple institutions working to do so. I know it seems all hope is lost, and trust me this chronic illness sucks, but everyone please stay positive. There is finally hope out there, not just in Neuromod, but everyday someone is coming up with new understanding of the brain and its mechanisms.

 

[GamesB2]

I would also like to interject and say that, although Neuromod has been relatively quiet as of late, remember that they are hard at work with this technology and we will most likely see something soon.

For so many years no one has been open about trying to fix this problem, and now we have multiple institutions working to do so. I know it seems all hope is lost, and trust me this chronic illness sucks, but everyone please stay positive. There is finally hope out there, not just in Neuromod, but everyday someone is coming up with new understanding of the brain and its mechanisms.

I agree. I just wish we could be more involved, there are several studies trying different things out on tinnitus but always far too away to take part!

 

[Rohov Dmytro]

So... Neuromod is keeping silence. It's marketing strategy!

 

[GlennS]

The vast majority of Neuromod's customers are going to be people who find out about the thing AFTER it's released. You can't stress out over a treatment you don't even know is in the pipeline.

 

[Rings-a-Bell]

Demonstrably false. Have you read through this thread? Because this statement sure reads like someone who just barged in and decided to just take a quick dump.

Been here from the beginning. They had lots of PR a while ago but there's no denying that they have gone quiet recently. I've launched several startups in my time and what you want to do to have a successful product launch is build a community buzz around it. They started building the buzz and then they stopped.

It's the same behaviour that I've seen around products that eventually turned into vaporware because the company failed to execute or ran out of funds.

Listen, I hope I'm wrong. Perhaps this is going to be so revolutionary they don't need to care about buzz. Maybe they are just dropping the PR ball. I am not saying they are certainly going to fail but their quiet right now justifies a degree of concern.

 

[EDDTEKK]

Nobody is writing negative comments, this is only the FEAR it might not help! As so many other treatments in the past have not been effective. Here we have many desperate people hoping for relief, especially the severe cases like me.

When the acoustic coordinated neuromodulation (ACRN) was presented in Germany there were so many people hoping for a treatment. The research center Jülich and Dr. Peter Tass also claimed that he did 10 years of research and animal studies and that the treatment will help 7 of 10. He presented some patients who had had success and promoted the therapy all over.

The result was that after one year the company ANM Medical went bankrupt and Dr. Tass left Jülich and went to Stanford Neuroscience Institute.

ACRN had almost no effect on the majority of people.
And it did cost a minimum of 3500€ considering all the regular check ups at the ENT.

For sure, there are always some patients who benefit. But this is the case for almost all treatments, acupuncture, laser therapy, neurofeedback and so on.

I think the concerned and negative comments here are due to fear of us having another fail on our hands.

We all want a cure or an effective treatment.

 

[Bob den Hartog]

Been here from the beginning. They had lots of PR a while ago but there's no denying that they have gone quiet recently. I've launched several startups in my time and what you want to do to have a successful product launch is build a community buzz around it. They started building the buzz and then they stopped.

Except for the Q&A they agreed to do, to openly talk about the product and answer questions from the community. And the rounds around conferences to talk about the product for months. And the appearance on the podcast, recorded on one of the conferences.

They probably stopped doing PR, because they were busy with the talks on the conferences. You don't know. This is just negative speculation. Which turns into a negative mindset.

 

[Tanni]

Except for the Q&A they agreed to do, to openly talk about the product and answer questions from the community. And the rounds around conferences to talk about the product for months. And the appearance on the podcast, recorded on one of the conferences.

They probably stopped doing PR, because they were busy with the talks on the conferences. You don't know. This is just negative speculation. Which turns into a negative mindset.

Very good point. They're only a small company from Ireland, and they've been actively promoting themselves in America this past month.

 

[GlennS]

This is just negative speculation. Which turns into a negative mindset.

The information drops may be lagging but it's not alarming... yet. Let's just see if another quarter goes by with no updates before pulling out the knives and pitchforks.

 

[Paulmanlike]

If anybody is wondering - in the podcast we have learnt nothing new. Well I haven't anyway as I've read everything publicly available on Neuromod and bimodal neuromodulation.