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JulianBrumbelow
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Materalist actually believe that (you) were always particles since the time of the big bang, that formed from ancient stars that just happened to end up inside the brain of a intelligent sentient primate 13.8 billion years later. (Ofcourse this happened) but do you really believe you were ALWAYS THOSE EXACT PARTICLES!
The chance of being those lucky particles associated with brain neurons is 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% in favor against you. You could have ended up as a rock, or as dirt on the surface of jupiter or a giant star billions of light years away or a super nova or dark matter and energy that makes 96% of the Universe.
If consciousness is quantum, and the brain is a filter for it and all particles in Universe are connected since the time of the big bang via quantum entanglement, Consciousness can enter a biological organism in the early stages of the womb after brain development via quantum entanglement.
I thought of a materalist explanation for reincarnation
a blue fish eats a red fish and it's dead, then the blue fish has babies that contain the exact same particles that made up the red fishes brain. Would the red fish be reincarnated as 1000's of baby fish since a few of the particles from it's brain neurons ended up in a new biological vessel?
and this is disturbing.
a blue fish eats a red fish and it's dead, then the blue fish has babies that contain the exact same particles that made up the red fishes brain. Would the red fish be reincarnated as 1000's of baby fish since a few of the particles from it's brain neurons ended up in a new biological vessel?
and this is disturbing.
You might need complete neurons or groupings - at the least - to support consciousness.
Does anyone here literally consider the limited free will we perceive have to be an illusion? ie the ability to move your arm up at will.
How do you defend your position that consciousness and self control are byproduct/illusion of dumb biochemical processes? Why aren't we just biochemical zombies with no inner life.
If current physics doesn't allow free will to exist, whatever the hell consciousness is doing must be superseding our known physics. Blackholes violate and quantum phenomena violate the laws of physics s we know them, but if our minds are doing the same thing it's not taken seriously. Why do they automatically assume the conscious-centric principles are anti scientific by default?
How do you defend your position that consciousness and self control are byproduct/illusion of dumb biochemical processes? Why aren't we just biochemical zombies with no inner life.
If current physics doesn't allow free will to exist, whatever the hell consciousness is doing must be superseding our known physics. Blackholes violate and quantum phenomena violate the laws of physics s we know them, but if our minds are doing the same thing it's not taken seriously. Why do they automatically assume the conscious-centric principles are anti scientific by default?
How do neurons produce subjective experience? Every single neuron must have a tiny fundamental bit of perception and experience. What about the molecules, atoms and particles and quantum waves associated with neurons? Is the fundamental experience of perception down at the basement level of the Universe. After all consciousness is brought into being by complicated arrangements of matter, both panpychist and materialist agree on that.
What luck does it take that you or me were always those particles?
The only difference is the panpychist views proto-consciousness as fundamental to the Universe. It's the only way to explain why anything has subjective intrinsic value.
So this is going to sound extremely kooky but I always wondered about this:
I met a random guy once soon after high school while I waiting in line somewhere. He was an average looking dude, dressed averagely and wouldn't have grabbed my attention per se but I exchanged a few words with him and I got the oddest but strongest feeling. I had literally just met him but I remember having an intense feeling like "oh my God, I missed you so much." I almost had to hold back tears. I remember thinking to myself "what the hell is going on?"
We were soon friends after, and then dated and got engaged 3 years later. He, very unfortunately, died soon after we were engaged (and many years later i married a sociopath instead
) but while we were together, even before I told him my odd experience meeting him, he *swore* that he had a reoccurring dream with a bunch of doors and the people behind them were always people he knew except for one girl who was a stranger to him. He said that girl was me and he knew the second he met me.I want so much to believe that was a sign of something like a past life or a glimpse into eternity and that all this chaos and pain isn't meaningless. I will definitely look into the research you mentioned.
I think i found the perfect example of psychological research that can help us:
https://www.psypost.org/2020/02/wal...-psychological-and-physiological-stress-55755
https://www.psypost.org/2020/02/wal...-psychological-and-physiological-stress-55755
So are we essentially free will entities merely trapped by the constraints of the human brain and our own DNA?
I am glad you said "after brain developmemt" because the argument that "souls" enter at conception, means identical twins each have half a soul.
Stevenson and Tucker insisted adults who remember past lives are not trustworthy as information could be tainted by life experience. They only investigated children under 7 who claimed to remember past lives and they always tried to outrule any other possibility including fraud, media, and other things.So this is going to sound extremely kooky but I always wondered about this:
I met a random guy once soon after high school while I waiting in line somewhere. He was an average looking dude, dressed averagely and wouldn't have grabbed my attention per se but I exchanged a few words with him and I got the oddest but strongest feeling. I had literally just met him but I remember having an intense feeling like "oh my God, I missed you so much." I almost had to hold back tears. I remember thinking to myself "what the hell is going on?"
We were soon friends after, and then dated and got engaged 3 years later. He, very unfortunately, died soon after we were engaged (and many years later i married a sociopath instead
I want so much to believe that was a sign of something like a past life or a glimpse into eternity and that all this chaos and pain isn't meaningless. I will definitely look into the research you mentioned.
If we really do remember past lives via quantum microtubules inside brain neurons, that wouldn't explain how you found your soul-mate. We don't know if reincarnation exist, let alone if it's mechanistic or if soul groups are bound by fate. But your case showed an example of failing to unite with a soul mate.
Panpychism alone probably won't give you an after life or reincarnation. You would need a soul-like entity/entities within the brain that take advantage of quantum entanglement. The quantum activity inside brain neuronal microtubules can instantly quantum entangle anywhere in the Universe after the death of a biological host.
That's assuming the brain is quantum when mainstream science cast doubt on this idea.
That's assuming the brain is quantum when mainstream science cast doubt on this idea.
I could see why you'd want to use children for that analysis but even then it's hard to separate from environmental influence; glad Stevenson and Tucker factored that in. With adults, it's definitely even more complicated, though. I have explained to myself the feeling from meeting him might have just been the feeling of relief to meet someone I could so easily relate to on a completely effortless level. Maybe that's what I had "missed."
I did ask him once if he believed in soul mates and he said he didn't look at it that way exactly but some people were drawn to care for, guard and protect others over eternity and it didn't have to just in a romantic sense necessarily. And that there are probably a few people like that for everyone.
He always told me he knew he'd die young, though, but hoped he was wrong. Even though it seems that way, he didn't believe in "fate" exactly but just that sometimes the future could be easier to guess for some people but it wasn't set in stone. I wish I had asked him more about this but i thought I had all the time in the world.
Anyway, he firmly believed in an afterlife because he said there would be no ultimate "point" to any of this otherwise and that there was no way all that's left of his grandmother could really be just "a pile of bones in a blue dress." He sounded so sure. I wish i had the same conviction, but like you I need it in scientifically plausible terms (or least not contradict what seems possible) to believe it.
If memories are contained within microtubules, I would think they'd have to be more like flashes or we would see more evidence of them. Maybe it would just manifest more, like you said, in things like hunches or phobias.
It would be wild if the reason psychedelics make people feel like consciousness is not in the brain is because it shuts off the illusion that it is for a while. The more you think about the universe the more none of it makes sense so it's hard not to have an open mind but, even if a vague one.
I was watching a lecture of some quack who was arguing that the Universe is a living organisms that intentionally tries to create black holes, and black holes transfer matter to a white hole in a new big bang, Essentially blackholes is how the Universe reproduces so it can spread it's genes, and it's genes are the laws of physics with slight modifications each time to be more and more suitable for life and complexity.
Bill Nye addressed the black hole universe creating hypothesis calling the evidence weak, and it is only a unproven hypothesis to suggest that blackholes will eat the Universe and form one giant blackhole that will start a new big bang.
But hey it's still possible for black holes eating the Universe away and fusing into a universe size black hole to create a new Universe using all the exact same matter and energy from the previous one.
Bill Nye addressed the black hole universe creating hypothesis calling the evidence weak, and it is only a unproven hypothesis to suggest that blackholes will eat the Universe and form one giant blackhole that will start a new big bang.
But hey it's still possible for black holes eating the Universe away and fusing into a universe size black hole to create a new Universe using all the exact same matter and energy from the previous one.
A panpychist that defends the existence of time would argue.
Entropy happens faster in space, such as a clock ticking faster or a biological organism aging. Einstein was correct about what time does, but there is no good reason to believe that time allows object to travel into a "future" there is no past or future just an eternal present. Entropy "such as biological aging' can move faster within the eternal present. But there is no pre-determined future.
Interesting line of thought.
If you're right that every single bit of neurons are self-supportingly "infused" with consciousness/experience (independent of their composing the larger neurons), why is consciousness only found in association with (whole) neurons? At the very least, it must be the pieces' arrangement as neurons that enables consciousness.
Regarding intrinsic value - I understand your metaphysics argument. But it's still possible that only whole neurons are infused with real, metaphysical consciousness. Or value etc.
Also, what convinces you that objective intrinsic value actually exists (as opposed to broad nihilism)?
"Half of all millennials list [home ownership] as a top priority, higher than both kids and marriage". Interesting. Maybe I'm not completely bonkers after all.
We know subjective emotions and experiences are real and they correspond to chemical and electrical activity in our brains. Our brains are also detecting senses from an external world ie your nose detects chemicals as smell and your ears detect vibrations of air as sound.
The panpychist argues that there must be subjective proto-conciousness in all matter because we know it exist in our brains and nerves. Some panpychist argue space-time is something consciousness is rendering as if we are all in a shared dream. Or consciousness is above space time, this is because panpychist are not willing to deny the existence of free will despite what physics is telling us.
A color blind neuroscientist can learn everything about neurocollerates corresponding with the color red but she will never experience or see the color red. Because the subjective quality of the color red is a real thing. Panpychist argue quality should be quantified.
Our brain, our nervous system and our senses is allowing us to experience the subjectivity of matter, it's intrinsic value.
I'm pissed off because older versions of gimp had ways to add photoshop .8bf filters and now I have to boot up a virtual computer to do one simple task.
JulianBrumbelow
Member
- Apr 5, 2018
- 219
- Tinnitus Since
- 03/14/2017
- Cause of Tinnitus
- loud headphones audio work
You are truly the Big Foot of TT. 99% of the forum has no idea what you are posting or why.
Strange yet interesting at the same time...
@JulianBrumbelow is trying to enlighten us so we can escape our existenial crisis. Depart from the normie realm and follow the tao of the adult preschooler routine of the fairie dragonette.
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