My Posting Place

[Contrast]

I keep telling everyone to quit obsessing over regenerative medicine, if it happens, AWESOME! However so far Frequency is the only company showing phenomenal results, everyone else is behind the race. I'm not saying they failed. I'm saying it's too early to tell. No company is claiming to treat noxacusis, yet misinformation on the forum leads people into believing that FX-322 will cure noxacusis and everything. I do think that they'll will be miracle cures in the deep future (+100 years), but that time isn't now. If you obsess over a cure now, you'll only feel worse.

We have to accept that this is the shitty backward ass part of human history we live in. Science is in it's infancy, and we need to make the best of it. Start by acting like a fucktard in front of the behavioral therapist and social workers; that will soon appear in hopes of reviving you into a normal human being. Eventually you can quit acting like a fucktard, because they will call the normie resuscitation mission quits, and have no choice but to reward you with a life time supply of disability income. Now you just secured an early retirement and don't have to compete with the normies in a socially darwinian environment.

@JulianBrumbelow taught me that losing touch with reality is the key to happiness. After all, being a general hunting scams is much better then being a turbo normie desperate to get back to his career, kids, or whatever the hell you people did before your hearing got screwed.

 

[FGG]

I do think that they'll will be miracle cures in the deep future (+years), but that time isn't now.

Is it too early to tell or it definitely not going to work?

It's fine to be a pessimist of course but at least acknowledge that's your general viewpoint. I personally think the regen glass is definitely more half full than half empty.

 

[Contrast]

Is it too early to tell or it definitely not going to work?

It's fine to be a pessimist of course but at least acknowledge that's your general viewpoint. I personally think the regen glass is definitely more half full than half empty.

I was one of the biggest optimists for regenerative medicine, I still think it's going to happen. We just are too early in human history.

 

[serendipity1996]

This first generation of treatments may not restore us to pristine newborn hearing but I don't think that is really the most important thing.

If these treatments are the difference between someone having to give up a social life, become a shut-in for fear of spikes and quitting their career to being able to live their life more or less normally then that's great. Perhaps we will still have to play it safer than most but it would still be significant increase in quality of life.

I also think it speaks volumes when we have guys like Liberman saying that he believes effective treatments are now on the horizon (from a 2019 interview with David Baguley).

 

[weab00]

Is it too early to tell or it definitely not going to work?

It's fine to be a pessimist of course but at least acknowledge that's your general viewpoint. I personally think the regen glass is definitely more half full than half empty.

People need to realize that pessimism != realism, it's just as skewed as optimism. There's still plenty of hope for treatments becoming available in the middle of this decade. Not that I think there will be a silver bullet cure for hearing loss, tinnitus, or hyperacusis, but many different modalities and better diagnosis techniques.

 

[FGG]

Also, @Contrast, have you kept up with Otonomy at all? They are about to release results for OTO-413.

Sound Pharmaceuticals' drug is also speeding along and reduced tinnitus in Meniere's patients and is now recruiting for (at least acute) noise induced.

 

[Phendran]

Start by acting like a fucktard in front of the behavioral therapist and social workers; that will soon appear in hopes of reviving you into a normal human being. Eventually you can quit acting like a fucktard, because they will call the normie resuscitation mission quits, and have no choice but to reward you with a life time supply of disability income. Now you just secured an early retirement and don't have to compete with the normies in a socially darwinian environment.

This hit me fairly hard. Thanks.

 

[serendipity1996]

People need to realize that pessimism != realism, it's just as skewed as optimism. There's still plenty of hope for treatments becoming available in the middle of this decade. Not that I think there will be a silver bullet cure for hearing loss, tinnitus, or hyperacusis, but many different modalities and better diagnosis techniques.

Yeah I agree. Also there are many conditions that don't have a silver bullet/miracle cure for but we have developed effective treatments that allow people to live a happy and 'normal life'. It's easy to be cynical but there have been a lot of breakthroughs in recent years e.g there's a new drug treatment for cystic fibrosis that targets the underlying mechanisms it's called Kaftrio and has been hailed as revolutionary and has made a huge difference in patients' ability to function. It's still not a cure but represents incredible progress. I think the first generation of hearing drugs could make a real difference if successful.

 

[Bartoli]

I have never said to anyone not to go and inform themselves. Please read my post, digest it then you will understand.

I'm not going to go into a lengthy discussion. You were making a general statement about people that read copious amounts of information being negative, implying that people should not inform themselves because they would become engulfed in negativity. You read through my posts and called them pure negativity.
I do visit this forum for support, and am not able to give any myself at this point, as I'm struggling too hard.
But I think you have negativity and suffering confused.

I try to cope by reading and informing myself. I don't see how that can be negative.

 

[Bartoli]

This first generation of treatments may not restore us to pristine newborn hearing but I don't think that is really the most important thing.

If these treatments are the difference between someone having to give up a social life, become a shut-in for fear of spikes and quitting their career to being able to live their life more or less normally then that's great. Perhaps we will still have to play it safer than most but it would still be significant increase in quality of life.

I also think it speaks volumes when we have guys like Liberman saying that he believes effective treatments are now on the horizon (from a 2019 interview with David Baguley).

I hope you're right. I believe most of us, and most ENTs know that every tinnitus case with a "perfect" audiogram still has a loss somewhere, detectable or not.
But what do we make of people with hearing loss and no tinnitus? What does that tell us about tinnitus and hearing regeneration?

 

[FGG]

Yeah I agree. Also there are many conditions that don't have a silver bullet/miracle cure for but we have developed effective treatments that allow people to live a happy and 'normal life'. It's easy to be cynical but there have been a lot of breakthroughs in recent years e.g there's a new drug treatment for cystic fibrosis that targets the underlying mechanisms it's called Kaftrio and has been hailed as revolutionary and has made a huge difference in patients' ability to function. It's still not a cure but represents incredible progress. I think the first generation of hearing drugs could make a real difference if successful.

There are a number of recent drugs like this because medicine is moving away from treating symptoms and into addressing the underlying pathophysiology. Medicine was definitely in the dark ages but it is now rapidly coming out of it and not twiddling its thumbs.

 

[weab00]

I try to cope by reading and informing myself. I don't see how that can be negative.

Because knowledge is power, and it sets you free from TRT. Ardent supporters don't like that fact, which is why audiologists will encourage you not to read any research about tinnitus that might contradict their authoritative advice, under the guise that it's to "discourage negative think." God damn some of the vocabulary Michael uses is super Orweillian.

 

[Michael Leigh]

I'm not going to go into a lengthy discussion. You were making a general statement about people that read copious amounts of information being negative, implying that people should not inform themselves because they would become engulfed in negativity. You read through my posts and called them pure negativity.
I do visit this forum for support, and am not able to give any myself at this point, as I'm struggling too hard.
But I think you have negativity and suffering confused.

I try to cope by reading and informing myself. I don't see how that can be negative.

The way you have interpreted my posts is incorrect which you have done before. For the record you are wrong. Since you are struggling hard with tinnitus, I think it's best that you leave me alone. I attend this forum to help people not to make trouble.

Goodbye.
Michael

 

[MrCrybaby]

Is it too early to tell or it definitely not going to work?

It's fine to be a pessimist of course but at least acknowledge that's your general viewpoint. I personally think the regen glass is definitely more half full than half empty.

I think that, when it comes to regen, very specific populations have cause to be optimistic and everyone else needs to wait and see. If your issue is hair cell death leading to hearing loss leading to tinnitus (And maybe loudness hyperacusis, not up to date in that area) FX-322 seems to have you covered. When it comes to noxacusis the lack of subtyping makes it really hard to guess what's going on. Are weird ear ventilation, throbbing ear pain, trigeminal nerve pain, and stabbing ear pain all going to be fixed by the same form of regeneration? That would be nice but I'm skeptical.

The beauty of regen in my opinion is that it may give many people meaningful improvement to certain symptoms so they can get on with their lives.

 

[weab00]

When it comes to noxacusis the lack of subtyping makes it really hard to guess what's going on. Are weird ear ventilation, throbbing ear pain, trigeminal nerve pain, and stabbing ear pain all going to be fixed by the same form of regeneration? That would be nice but I'm skeptical.

That's the big question. We're anxiously twiddling our thumbs waiting to see whether or not type II sensitization is permanent. It would certainly be disastrous if it were, so let's think happy thoughts.

 

[Contrast]

That's the big question. We're anxiously twiddling our thumbs waiting to see whether or not type II sensitization is permanent. It would certainly be disastrous if it were, so let's think happy thoughts.

I think it is far more likely noxacusis will go away with time, then regenerative medicine.


It did for me.

 

[weab00]

I think it is far more likely noxacusis will go away with time, then regenerative medicine.

It did for me.

I understand why you see it that way since you naturally improved, but I'm more hopeful for prospective medicine than my broken body ever healing to a functional point.

 

[FGG]

I think it is far more likely noxacusis will go away with time, then regenerative medicine.

It did for me.

But there are pathophysiologic reasons for this (why it might improve once neuroinflammation does) And Sound's drug in particular might help with some of them (and isn't a regen drug per se).

 

[serendipity1996]

I think it is far more likely noxacusis will go away with time, then regenerative medicine.

It did for me.

Also important to note that even once the pain and symptoms have subsided they can easily be triggered again if you're not careful with your noise exposure. It seems for those of us who have suffered a prior acoustic trauma our ears are now 'compromised'. Even if the pain goes away the underlying damaged cochlea remains.

 

[Tanni]

I'm not going to go into a lengthy discussion. You were making a general statement about people that read copious amounts of information being negative, implying that people should not inform themselves because they would become engulfed in negativity. You read through my posts and called them pure negativity.
I do visit this forum for support, and am not able to give any myself at this point, as I'm struggling too hard.
But I think you have negativity and suffering confused.

I try to cope by reading and informing myself. I don't see how that can be negative.

Sorry to hear that you're struggling at the moment @Bartoli. When I was really struggling, I also spent a lot of time (trying to) read research papers etc and waiting on an upcoming treatment. When we're struggling, we have to do whatever is needed to get us through the difficult period. That's the main thing.

Everyone here will have an opinion on what works best when dealing with Tinnitus, but we're all different so we have to figure out for ourselves what works best for us.

Personally, when I read posts like the above I'm very hopeful for a possible treatment in the near future. It sounds like we have every reason to be optimistic.

I hope things improve for you soon.

 

[Contrast]

Also important to note that even once the pain and symptoms have subsided they can easily be triggered again if you're not careful with your noise exposure. It seems for those of us who have suffered a prior acoustic trauma our ears are now 'compromised'. Even if the pain goes away the underlying damaged cochlea remains.

I know, the person has to be smart and avoid loud noise for the rest of their life.

 

[Phendran]

There are a number of recent drugs like this because medicine is moving away from treating symptoms and into addressing the underlying pathophysiology. Medicine was definitely in the dark ages but it is now rapidly coming out of it and not twiddling its thumbs.

Yes! I think that is great, but I'm also really disappointed in that this wasn't the way things were done 20 years ago.

Unrelated question:
If you would recommend me an ear-friendly song, which one would it be?

 

[Contrast]

This study took place over a decade ago. Scientist located the neurons that show the strongest activity due to seeing a picture of two celebrities. Different regions of the brain lit up depending on what celebrity they saw. So they made a test where the subject views a celebrities picture on a computer screen just by choosing to think about one or the other celebrities. Take note, they only had two options. When the subject thought about one celebrity, the screen would go through a fade transition to show said celebrity, and when they thought about the other, it would fade out to show the picture of the other celebrity. The pictures of both celebrities would fade in and out just by the subject thinking about it. The subject actively watched the transition of this happening. This all once again happened, because the scientist mapped the neurons that was most active during the stimuli of seeing the celebrities.

 

[serendipity1996]

I know, the person has to be smart and avoid loud noise for the rest of their life.

Well, hopefully we won't have to wait our entire lifetimes to repair the underlying damage (even if it's just partially).

 

[FGG]

Yes! I think that is great, but I'm also really disappointed in that this wasn't the way things were done 20 years ago.

Unrelated question:
If you would recommend me an ear-friendly song, which one would it be?

To the first question, imaging got better for one! We can see parts of nerves in clear detail. It makes it much easier to correlate problems with structures and parts of structures.

A few other things, too. like AI mapping making advancements possible with less man hours, etc.

To your second, I am the worst person to ask. The only music that sounds remotely normal to me are mid-low wind chimes one note at a time .

 

[weab00]

 

[Shizune]

Is there any hope for loudness hyperacusis that's turned to noxacusis, vs noxacusis from the get go? Or is noxacusis in of itself an entirely different beast?

 

[serendipity1996]

I hope you're right. I believe most of us, and most ENTs know that every tinnitus case with a "perfect" audiogram still has a loss somewhere, detectable or not.
But what do we make of people with hearing loss and no tinnitus? What does that tell us about tinnitus and hearing regeneration?

Yeah I think we need improved diagnostics for sure because the audiogram is so primitive and doesn't tell us the full picture. Liberman said that they have found that you can lose up to 90% of your synapses without it showing up on a standard audiogram - that's absolutely wild. It does seem like noise trauma is emerging as the most common cause of tinnitus but of course there could be a whole host of other causes for some people. So I'm not really sure but I just hope diagnostics improve across the board.

 

[Contrast]

@Chinmoku you mentioned the "hard problem of consciousness" in another thread. Which is basically the philosophical and scientific question of "what mechanisms cause mental experiences to emerge?" The model of consciousness I entertain involves the least meta physics and no duality of mind.



The key to understanding what Benardo Kastrup is saying is to realize a few things. Especially the "third person perspective" part. It took me a full two months to understand these theory because I confused it with dualistic view.

1. Infinite mental experiences are the only thing that exist. The Universe/Multiverse is infinite Qualia.

2. The Universe at it's largest scales looks like a giant neural network. Read quantitative similarities of the brain and the Universe's Cosmic Web. It appears that neural networks are what conscious experiences look like from a third person perspective. That is why if a surgeon operates on my skull, they will see a brain. Brains and metabolizing biology are what mental experiences look like to other mental agents. He is not arguing for a ghost in the machine like dualist.

3. Living metabolizing biological matter is the appearance of fragmentation in cosmic consciousness. The simplest forms of mind can be metabolizing unicelluar life. Metabolizing life is the third person view, of an fragmented mental experience. Kastrup disagrees with panpyschist and strongly argues against atoms and electrons having basic units of mentality. A system has to be part of a whole to be conscious.

4. His model "allegedly" is compatible with a leading neuroscience theory of consciousness called integrated information theory. That theory proposes that integrated networks sharing information among each other is what is consciousness. However supporters of Kastrup's meta physics argue that integration/connectivity is what isolates cosmic consciousness into a fragmented alter. I do not understand integrated information theory at all, so I don't really want to comment on something I don't understand. But I do know it's a leading neuroscientific theory that argues against computational mentality. Finally, Because Kastrup is not a dualist, He agrees it's possible for conscious robots and non biological minds to exist, if we figure out how to isolate cosmic consciousness into an alter, or discover non biological minds.

I'm still debating between Kastrup's idealism, panpychism (including Penrose's model) and materialism like Dan Dennete states. I don't take dualist seriously at all. As their world view falls apart when a brain surgery takes place. Benardo's view forces the self to be a temporary fragment in cosmic mind, as Eastern spiritual views have been saying for thousands of years.

 

[Contrast]

I'm learning how to make more creative backgrounds.

I also have plans to learn how to use inkscape to make my own vector of Hugh, the bottles and other characters. But that's down the road.