My Posting Place

[Agrajag364]

But does the limbic system have to do with the volume of the tinnitus or not?

Supposedly, yes

https://www.cell.com/neuron/pdf/S0896-6273(10)00325-9.pdf

This might explain the tinnitus saying, "the more you fear it, the more you hear it"

The idea is something like -your brain labels it as something to be feared and this can amplify the sound perception.But it is a complex disorder and it's not the same for everyone. I genuinely do find that if I am busy and distracted mine is more likely to go through a quiet phase, not habituation, actually quieter. Other people don't seem to find this

With many chronic disorders in medicine, there is a LOT of mixing up of people's reactive distress to a condition, versus the actual severity of the condition. Like yes people do very a lot in how they react to particular things, but this isn't the same as the actual severity


You could say that any untreatable chronic disorder is 90% mental, in that the only thing we can change the reaction. But it doesn't necessarily follow that the condition is fully controllable by controlling one's reaction. It still might be really severe no matter how you choose to react. There may be some modification of actual severity according to stress, activity in the limbic system et cetera but may only have a small or no affect for many people.

 

[Jcb]

@Michael Leigh @fishbone

get this through your heads, please.

when you say tinnitus is mental, you are clearly lumping in the distress it causes in with the actual ringing.

these are two separate but related things. when people read "tinnitus is x% mental" then they get confused and think that they can lower their tinnitus by thinking positive.

tinnitus is ONLY the ringing, it is 100% a physical ailment, it causes other mental problems and that is what you are calling tinnitus too and that is wrong.

They are very much intertwined but they are separate issues.

I do have to say that having a positive mindset can help a lot of people deal with this shit but they are two separate issues linked to one another. Even if you do manage to lead a somewhat normal life you will still have the ringing of shame in your ears, I think that's the point John is trying to make, so no tinnitus isn't 90% mental.

Also can somebody tell me wtf this other 10% supposedly is??

 

[threefirefour]

View attachment 33018

Wtf this is terrible poor Contrast

 

[Michael Leigh]

when you say tinnitus is mental, you are clearly lumping in the distress it causes in with the actual ringing.

@JohnAdams
Now get this through your head please.

That isn't what @fishbone and I mean. In noise induced tinnitus, the tinnitus signal is sent from the ears/cochlea to the part of the brain known as the Limbic system and here is where the noise is generated. The Limbic system also controls our thoughts and emotions: Love, hate, fear etc. This is the reason I have clearly stated: Tinnitus is intrinsically linked to our mental and emotional wellbeing. All you have done and others in this thread is focus on: Tinnitus is 90% mental and believe we mean one can control their tinnitus purely by thought and thus be able to reduce its level of intensity. This is not what we mean.

Whether the tinnitus noise is low, moderate or severe it is affected by our thoughts and emotions. The more positive thinking a person is and bringing positivity into one's life helps the brain to focus less on the tinnitus. It won't necessarily lower the tinnitus noise, however, in many instances the brain is able to cope with it and push it further into the background. In the process the tinnitus often becomes less intrusive. Of course there are many factors involved and some people may need specialist treatment in the form of counselling, medication, sound therapy or a combination of all three to achieve this. We are not saying this is easy because it's not. However, if one focuses purely on negativity and thinks nothing can be done then change will not happen or at least hope of change.

If you have ever lived near a busy motorway/expressway, train station etc; at first you might find it difficult not to focus on these external environmental sounds. You may even have difficulty sleeping. As time passes the brain is able to ignore these sounds and gradually pushes them into the background. The sounds are still there but no longer at the forefront of the mind.

Tinnitus presents itself in a similar way. As I have said, the tinnitus signal is generated in the Limbic system which controls our thoughts and emotions. When the brain first hears or becomes aware of the tinnitus it is a strange new anomaly, and often it can feel threatened by it. It grabs onto the tinnitus or focuses on it and doesn't want to let it go. This threat can generate all sorts of thoughts, emotions and fears which often makes the tinnitus louder and more intrusive. The less stressed a person becomes will usually have a beneficial effect on the tinnitus by lowering the brain's perception of noise. The opposite happens the more stressed and negative a person becomes. Depending on the person and what's going on in their life can have a huge impact on their ability to cope with tinnitus.

Tinnitus comes in many forms and intensities and no two people experience it the same. Some people that have difficulty coping with it, also have additional problems in their life that can make habituation very difficult indeed.

I will not be commenting further on this topic.

Michael

 

[Kain]

 

[Jazzer]

The comment -
"Tinnitus is 90% mental"
- actually makes no sense whatsoever.

If you said it to be controversial well then you succeeded.
But in fact it is meaningless.

Now I will not be returning to this thread.
I will not be commenting further on this topic.
However I would like to wish all of you gentlemen a good day - and one more thing,

- "for Gawd sake mind yer bloody language."
( 'cos I'm of a very delicate disposition.)

 

[fishbone]

They are very much intertwined but they are separate issues.

I do have to say that having a positive mindset can help a lot of people deal with this shit but they are two separate issues linked to one another. Even if you do manage to lead a somewhat normal life you will still have the ringing of shame in your ears, I think that's the point John is trying to make, so no tinnitus isn't 90% mental.

Also can somebody tell me wtf this other 10% supposedly is??

Lets clarify it this way then - How you ACT/Re-act is crucial. When I had beginner's tinnitus (low static noise) I was in a bad spot and It was a pure mess. I couldn't believe just how horrible the noise was and why I/ME was chosen to hear that low/barely noticeable tone that would come and go. My thoughts were negative and I was in a frantic pace to get rid of it. I perfectly understand what people on this site go through. I have been in their shoes and I totally get it.

Now, let's move forwards 31 years later. I have intrusive tinnitus that is just loud and ugly. Very ugly, it's extremely loud that at times the little hearing I do have left, it covers even that as well. I have read and seen most of the posts on this site. People have posted their audiograms with possibly 10-25db hearing loss. Their hearing is decent and average. I would give anything to have normal hearing. Imagine having intrusive loud tinnitus and trying to hear what someone says....Its quite an effort and its VERY stressful. It can also make us feel defeated at times, it's a struggle and some folks can lose confidence when they cannot hear well. So it's not easy, but i still push through it...

At this stage of my life with worst ringing, worst hearing (have to lip read at times), yet I am not negative and frantic like i was when I had it BETTER 31 years ago. The only difference was that I was not mentally able to understand why things were the way they were. I did not ACT/ Re-act well to my ringing and it was just a mess.

How we act/re-act to the tinnitus is key. How we act/re-act in life to joys, obstacles is key. This is just a fact of life.....

 

[threefirefour]

I didn't think I'd ever see Fishbone comment on here.

 

[Jazzer]

I didn't think I'd ever see Fishbone comment on here.

He's slumming it.........!

 

[JohnAdams]

@Michael Leigh @fishbone

There is nothing wrong with dealing with the distress tinnitus causes by being optimistic and positive. Unfearful. I am 100% on board. However, the way you guys lump tinnitus in with the other stuff is just wrong. It makes new comers, that immediately want a way to make the sound go away, think that if they follow your lead, that that will happen, and it won't. The way you phrase your garbage by lumping tinnitus in with the psychological aspects for instance when Leigh says "tinnitus is 90% mental" is basically disingenuous bullshit. Stop doing that. You're essentially shills for the psycho-therapy-approach-to-tinnitus-industry. Just fucking stop it. STOP IT. Tinnitus, by definition, is ringing in the ears, THAT'S IT. You are lumping all the rest of the symptom cluster involving varying levels of psychosis in with it and then calling it tinnitus and promoting the SOC TRT/CBT industry. Stop being so fucking stupid and delineate your description of this disease. I've made myself 100% clear.

 

[Bndsmheowqhe]

Tinnitus is 90% mental. By this I mean it is intrinsically linked to our mental and emotional wellbeing. Of course, as you are someone that hasn't had tinnitus long and lack experience, you fail to understand what I mean.

I've had it for four years. Does that mean I'm allowed to have an opinion that differs from yours?

 

[FGG]

@Michael Leigh, you may get hung up on @JohnAdams's word choices but he's making a valid point.

When you give advice here it comes across--intended or not--that someone's mental attitude literally determines tinnitus loudness. Many people are going to come away with the idea that you can somehow CBT or positive attitude your way into quieter tinnitus.

I think it's confusing and doing people a disservice. If you just mean it might help you have less mental breakdowns, then say that. Don't taut it as some kind of treatment.

Because "be positive" comes off like a dismissive platitude. Kind of like when an audiologist told me I would be able to listen to music again and my first thought was relief that it could be fixed through healing or technology but actually he meant I would hear it in my heart and mind and that my love for music and "musical appreciation" would never die. Completely useless words and idea to me. Who doesn't know your love for something doesn't immediately die when you lose it?

Similarly who doesn't know positive thinking is better than negative thinking? How is this a treatment?

 

[85dB T]

The mental aspect of T is 100% mental. The physical aspect is 100% physical. How the two interact, this is CBT and TRT, which are bandaids. More than mental bandaids, we need a cure for the physical aspects of T. Not just keeping our heads above water by mental toughness, we all do this. And we're getting tired of it.

 

[JohnAdams]

I will not be commenting further on this topic.

because you are hard headed. what a fucking crusade you're on, lumping symptom clusters together in a disease forum. I can't even understand your reluctance to properly describe this disease.

You're looking more and more like something called a shill.

 

[Bndsmheowqhe]

because you are hard headed. what a fucking crusade you're on, lumping symptom clusters together in a disease forum. I can't even understand your reluctance to properly describe this disease.

You're looking more and more like something called a shill.

It's the kind of extreme denial you see in dysfunctional families. "It's 90% mental"is the equivalent of "Daddy wasn't drunk, he just had food poisoning."

 

[JohnAdams]

what could possibly be the motive of someone that is adamantly trying to make tinnitus seem like not just ringing but also the stress it causes? what is so hard about making that distinction? why wouldn't you want to for the sake of accuracy and proper understanding?

to me it really seems like they do that as a first step to confuse the tinnitus sufferer into thinking that tinnitus can be treated by shrinks, so that once they learn that the shrinks can't help the volume level, that the real problem is actually their (irrational) attitude towards it so at the end the useless shrinks can make money off of treating (not treating) this disease. it's all a bunch of brainwashing bullshit.

 

[Star64]

You have misunderstood what I mean when I say tinnitus is 90% mental like so many others on this thread. Therefore, it's pointless trying to explain as you haven't read and understood the rest of my post.

Michael

Well Michael, it is true I may misunderstand a lot of things, but I can tell you that is because I have scrambled more than a few wires in my brain trying to fix my 100% physical tinnitus.

 

[Star64]

Lets clarify it this way then - How you ACT/Re-act is crucial. When I had beginner's tinnitus (low static noise) I was in a bad spot and It was a pure mess. I couldn't believe just how horrible the noise was and why I/ME was chosen to hear that low/barely noticeable tone that would come and go. My thoughts were negative and I was in a frantic pace to get rid of it. I perfectly understand what people on this site go through. I have been in their shoes and I totally get it.

Now, let's move forwards 31 years later. I have intrusive tinnitus that is just loud and ugly. Very ugly, it's extremely loud that at times the little hearing I do have left, it covers even that as well. I have read and seen most of the posts on this site. People have posted their audiograms with possibly 10-25db hearing loss. Their hearing is decent and average. I would give anything to have normal hearing. Imagine having intrusive loud tinnitus and trying to hear what someone says....Its quite an effort and its VERY stressful. It can also make us feel defeated at times, it's a struggle and some folks can lose confidence when they cannot hear well. So it's not easy, but i still push through it...

At this stage of my life with worst ringing, worst hearing (have to lip read at times), yet I am not negative and frantic like i was when I had it BETTER 31 years ago. The only difference was that I was not mentally able to understand why things were the way they were. I did not ACT/ Re-act well to my ringing and it was just a mess.

How we act/re-act to the tinnitus is key. How we act/re-act in life to joys, obstacles is key. This is just a fact of life.....

I have nothing but respect for you fishbone and I think you are well aware of that, but I think why people get upset with people saying it is a mental condition is because it is not.

Sure it causes mental distress and that is a separate issue just like @Jcb stated. I have worked my whole life beside people suffering from illness and I cannot think of another physical condition were people refer to it as being a mental issue.

That is not to say you are wrong, sure trying to remain positive and keeping ourselves distracted might help us cope better, but it wont cure us. I am trying really hard by the way to remain positive, and not react to the deafening alarm bells that at ringing in my head right now.

 

[JohnAdams]

Ok what if we go through TRT and CBT while getting daily injections of FX-322 mixed with PRP, stem cells, BDNF and NT-3, and then sleep with R. David Case's tinnitus mix with the Koss ktx pro headphones and then use Lenire during the day while simultaneously practicing mindfulness, taking cold showers, and getting plenty of sun and dry fasting? No curcumin.

 

[fishbone]

I have nothing but respect for you fishbone and I think you are well aware of that, but I think why people get upset with people saying it is a mental condition is because it is not.

Sure it causes mental distress and that is a separate issue just like @Jcb stated. I have worked my whole life beside people suffering from illness and I cannot think of another physical condition were people refer to it as being a mental issue.

That is not to say you are wrong, sure trying to remain positive and keeping ourselves distracted might help us cope better, but it wont cure us. I am trying really hard by the way to remain positive, and not react to the deafening alarm bells that at ringing in my head right now.

I am a bit confused on how we are using the word mental here. I am not saying that this ordeal is a mental illness or mental condition - if that's what you are mentioning in your post. What I do say is that no matter how good, bad, ugly this ordeal is, I'll keep trying to find ways to make my life a little better. Nothing is perfect, but I'll not stop trying...... That's the mentality I have and that's what I say in my posts....

I live my life trying to not focus on the hell that screams out my head. It's what I have to do and I hope folks here are able to do it as well. I hope folks here find a cure one day, but I live my life whether I see one or not. It's not easy at all, but it's the life I am stuck with. I have had to adjust my life in so many ways and give up lots of stuff that brought me joy due to my tinnitus. I make sacrifices all the time to adjust, cope and live with this ordeal.

I understand your frustrations, withdrawls are a pain and it will take time for your body to adjust. Stay strong and I am always supporting you!

 

[Michael Leigh]

I've had it for four years. Does that mean I'm allowed to have an opinion that differs from yours?

You are allowed to an opinion just like anyone else. You allowed to be negative all day long, 365 days of the year and you will achieve absolutely nothing as far as overcoming your tinnitus, with this sort of attitude.

I wish you well.
Michael

 

[Bndsmheowqhe]

You are allowed to an opinion just like anyone else. You allowed to be negative all day long, 365 days of the year and you will achieve absolutely nothing as far as overcoming your tinnitus, with this sort of attitude.

I wish you well.
Michael

Denial seldom leads to a solution. Dissatisfaction frequently does.

 

[Michael Leigh]

Denial seldom leads to a solution. Dissatisfaction frequently does.

I wish you well then.
Goodbye.

 

[Michael Leigh]

View attachment 33035

Well Michael, it is true I may misunderstand a lot of things, but I can tell you that is because I have scrambled more than a few wires in my brain trying to fix my 100% physical tinnitus.

I refer you to my post above were I have discussed this at length and will not be pursuing it further.
I wish you well.

Goodbye
Michael

 

[Contrast]

John please save MPP

 

[Michael Leigh]

When you give advice here it comes across--intended or not--that someone's mental attitude literally determines tinnitus loudness.

I am not responsible if people misinterpret what I write. I have explained at length what I mean in the clearest possible way that I know, and will not be pursing this matter further.

Goodbye and I wish you well.
Michael

 

[Star64]

I refer you to my post above were I have discussed this at length and will not be pursuing this further.
I wish you well.

Goodbye
Michael

Lol...I wasn't expecting to discuss this further with you
Goodbye,
Star64

 

[Artazanasss]

View attachment 33038

John please save MPP

WOW the legend itself, the king of MPP has returned, welcome back. We all missed you so much.

I hope you will stay around, what you told me about your health is horrible, but I feel the support and love you will get here maybe will help you carry on with hard bundles of life. It does help me. Stay strong. Nobody deserves to suffer as much as you do, but life and technology always evolves and changes. There might be brighter days ahead.

 

[Star64]

I am a bit confused on how we are using the word mental here. I am not saying that this ordeal is a mental illness or mental condition - if that's what you are mentioning in your post. What I do say is that no matter how good, bad, ugly this ordeal is, I'll keep trying to find ways to make my life a little better. Nothing is perfect, but I'll not stop trying...... That's the mentality I have and that's what I say in my posts....

I live my life trying to not focus on the hell that screams out my head. It's what I have to do and I hope folks here are able to do it as well. I hope folks here find a cure one day, but I live my life whether I see one or not. It's not easy at all, but it's the life I am stuck with. I have had to adjust my life in so many ways and give up lots of stuff that brought me joy due to my tinnitus. I make sacrifices all the time to adjust, cope and live with this ordeal.

I understand your frustrations, withdrawls are a pain and it will take time for your body to adjust. Stay strong and I am always supporting you!

Maybe I am misunderstanding the world mental that is being used on this thread.

You see to me the word mental means of the mind, or an illness of the mind and that was what I was wondering why people would use this word.

Tinnitus is a physical condition, but like I said I know it can cause distress and maybe that is what you are actually referring too.

I truly appreciate all your support and I will be forever grateful for that, I hope I haven't offended you, but that is what my brain interrupted as the mental meaning.

 

[Jazzer]

In a scenario where there is the obvious physical destruction of nerve fibres and cells it is insulting and disingenuous to label the affliction as 90% mental, or as 'mental' at all.

Yes - it clearly disturbs our mentality, but that is a reaction and not the cause.

Looking for positive ways to try to cope as best we can may improve our outlook of course, but it will not, does not, cannot heal the nerve cells destroyed by noise, or other causes.

I personally rely on meditation to help me to 'hear' my sounds in a relaxed setting, without having an emotional response, which can become habitual, but it is demonstrably not a cure.

In a scenario where there is no cure - and may never be a cure - psychological support systems may well help sufferers to cope - rather like the 'talking therapy' of psychoanalysis.

In this thread I see everybody talking true to form:
John Adams - factual and pragmatic.
Fishbone - always encouraging.
Star 64 - spot on.
Michael Leigh - frightfully frightfully polite.

But what the hell - it helps to pass the time of day.