My Tinnitus Has Changed ...

[uncle vikin]

I love Thai food but I even love Indian Food even better.I eat what I want to I did not at first but the heck with it I like these foods so thats what I am going to eat. Dr. Nagler I am jealous you must have so many great restaurants to choose from in Atlanta.

 

[valeri]

@Dr. Nagler

Was your level of distress with this increase the same as the first time round when you first got tinnitus?

Also did you wear the generators for the same length of time a day?

Good to hear you're better

 

[Dr. Nagler]

Was your level of distress with this increase the same as the first time round when you first got tinnitus?

I was frustrated, sad, worried, and confused. I couldn't get my mind off my tinnitus. I kept wondering: "How could this be happening?" I was tearful at times. But I did not feel hopeless, and I was not clinically depressed.

Also did you wear the generators for the same length of time a day?

I followed the TRT sound therapy protocol to the letter.

Good to hear you're better

Good to be better

stephen nagler

 

[Minghui]

wish you all best, Dr.

 

[KingRoanoke]

I was frustrated, sad, worried, and confused. I couldn't get my mind off my tinnitus. I kept wondering: "How could this be happening?" I was tearful at times. But I did not feel hopeless, and I was not clinically depressed.


I followed the TRT sound therapy protocol to the letter.


Good to be better

stephen nagler

Do you think resiliency and innate willpower are a contributing factor for those that habituate? I read a book by Dr Richard Davidson, who is a Harvard-trained (yes, "Harvard-trained" sounds as obnoxious to type as it does to read) neuroscientist. In one of his books he talks about people having one or a combination of six different "emotional styles" - one of them being "Resiliency". He says one can shift their emotional style to adopt resiliency through brain plasticity, but innate and predetermined brain chemistry and genetics influence it as well.

It could be all a bunch of nonsense, I don't know enough about the brain to doubt his work, though.

Do you feel that you're a resilient person or that any other aspect to your personality has any affect on your ability to habituate (or recover from relapse)? People have mentioned external factors that may have helped you along in habituation (money, access to tinnitus professionals, medical experience, etc.)...but perhaps your innate character has a huge impact.

Surely, not everyone helps others selflessly on the internet, has the intellectual capacity to become a doctor, can be objective or has a sense of resiliency. Maybe what you have is what I and others suffering on here are missing? The genetic "stuff" that determines a person to be a scientist and another a farmer might also determine habituation.

I don't bring this up to brown-nose or toot your horn; I am specifically speaking about my own shortcomings in the context of personality and habituation. I am not resilient at all and compromise objective rationality due in part to being overly sensitive to emotions. Tinnitus is the perfect spice in this soup.

In one of your previous posts you mention a four-point formula: Strategy, Determination, Flexibility, Insight.

Determination to follow a strategy, intelligence to have insight, and resilience to be flexible all seem like functions of innate personality and emotion.

 

[Dr. Nagler]

Do you think resiliency and innate willpower are a contributing factor for those that habituate?

KR, I can only speak for myself - and I do not in any way consider myself to be a resilient person. My tinnitus all but incapacitated me for more than a year (back in 1994-1995). A resilient person likely would have handled it far better than I. I was a mathematics major in college, a person who relies on and finds comfort in equations and formulas. A resilient person does not need such a safety net. TRT provided me with a formula for habituating back in my early days of tinnitus, and TRT provided me with a formula for re-habituating over the past few weeks. Perhaps a resilient person can do it without a formula? I do not know. All I do know is that I could not.

stephen nagler

 

[Dr. Nagler]

I'm handling my ultra high pitched T much better than 2 years ago, when it started. Most of the day i'm ok with it, BUT sometimes when i'm tired, or got bad sleep night, my T spikes alot. Most of the days it is smoothly to handle my T, but somedays I need to force the engine to handle it. Do you recommend TRT for the case? or do you think that i'm just fine with this self-habituation.

Sounds to me like you are coping, which is different from habituating. That said, it seems to me that you are coping rather well. Do I think you are fine with where you are? What I think really isn't important. What you think is all that matters.

stephen nagler

 

[MattK]

Dr Nagler, are you able to sleep without white noise again?

Btw, since your tinnitus got louder, did you get examed at all? Back in September I had a huge spike and a doctor found fluid in my ears. Turned out to be seasonal allergies which I didn't know I had for that time of year.

 

[JohnnyMx]

Sounds to me like you are coping, which is different from habituating

Thats a new and great perspective to me, makes me think that i have more paths to work. Its good to know i can handle my T even MUCH better with habituation.

Thanks! Johnny.

 

[Dr. Nagler]

Dr Nagler, are you able to sleep without white noise again?

Yes, but I choose not to, because the TRT sound therapy protocol calls for not sleeping in silence - and I plan to follow that protocol for several more weeks.

Btw, since your tinnitus got louder, did you get examed at all?

Yes. I saw my ENT. And (just yesterday) saw my audiologist. Interestingly, although I thought my tinnitus was so much louder, there was really no appreciable change in the loudness on loudness match testing. What had changed was the pitch. It was originally around 8K, but now it's 12.5K. That makes sense to me now, because I really couldn't imagine how my tinnitus could ever get louder than it was. So it just seemed to be louder, when what really changed so dramatically was the pitch! Weird stuff, tinnitus.

Best to all -

stephen nagler

 

[Mark Beehre]

Interestingly, although I thought my tinnitus was so much louder, there was really no appreciable change in the loudness on loudness match testing. What had changed was the pitch. It was originally around 8K, but now it's 12.5K. That makes sense to me now, because I really couldn't imagine how my tinnitus could ever get louder than it was. So it just seemed to be louder, when what really changed so dramatically was the pitch!

Which is why I think you can hear your T over the Niagara Falls. It's not so much about the loudness, but the frequency. There aren't many naturally occurring high frequency environmental sounds if you exclude cicadas and crickets.

An audiologist showed me a study conducted on T loudness. People complained of having T as loud as a jet engine and others as mild as a hum. The study concluded that everyone had the same loudness, just some were able to manage it better. I wonder if the frequency is what determines whether one requires intervention (like TRT) or can simply get on with life by putting the radio on at night like my dad.

 

[Dr. Nagler]

In tinnitus, perception is the only reality. Your tinnitus is exactly as loud as it sounds to you.

stephen nagler

 

[linearb]

In tinnitus, perception is the only reality.

In tinnitus, and in life in general, I think!

 

[kmohoruk]

What had changed was the pitch. It was originally around 8K, but now it's 12.5K. That makes sense to me now, because I really couldn't imagine how my tinnitus could ever get louder than it was. So it just seemed to be louder, when what really changed so dramatically was the pitch! Weird stuff, tinnitus.

May I ask when you got your T matched, at what loudness (dB) was it?

Thank you @Dr. Nagler for telling your story on the board. I find it very motivating that if you can handle this extremely loud T and new pitch and continue to thrive - then anyone is able to do it.

 

[Dr. Nagler]

May I ask when you got your T matched, at what loudness (dB) was it?

In dB? 91

stephen nagler

 

[kmohoruk]

In dB? 91

stephen nagler

Wow, just wow. You are a very strong man! Like you said, if you're able to get through this and continue to thrive then anyone else can do it too.

 

[MattK]

@Dr. Nagler Still doing better? Did you try Thai food yet?

 

[Shadgirl]

I posted a desperate question in the doctors corner today. If you have time please answer. I'm so-scared I'm about ready to have a heart attack!

 

[SoulStation]

I posted a desperate question in the doctors corner today. If you have time please answer. I'm so-scared I'm about ready to have a heart attack!

@Shadgirl with all due respect let's give Dr. Nagler a break - he will be back as soon as he can but is taking care of his own 'bus' right now. I know how it feels to be scared and I hate the feeling but you will be ok. Message me if you'd like I'd be happy to chat.

 

[Dr. Nagler]

I posted a desperate question in the doctors corner today. If you have time please answer. I'm so-scared I'm about ready to have a heart attack!

@Shadgirl, I read your Doctors' Corner question, and I am so very sorry to hear that you are having such a difficult time with your tinnitus. What is the nearest large city to your home?

stephen nagler

 

[Shadgirl]

The Cleveland Clinic in Ohio. It has a tinnitus management clinic but my family cant spare the money or the trip over there. I cant drive. I live in Ohio. They don't understand how bad it is or how desperate I am for some help. Worse yet this happens with everything I need from them. They only give me health of there attention and my other siblings take priority. But I really need to know more. I'm about ready to end it all. My dreams, my independence, maby my life if this gets any worse... Have you ever heard of anything like that? Sorry to bug you. I know your having trouble yourself but I'm desperate.

 

[Afeef]

The Cleveland Clinic in Ohio. It has a tinnitus management clinic but my family cant spare the money or the trip over there. I cant drive. I live in Ohio. They don't understand how bad it is or how desperate I am for some help. Worse yet this happens with everything I need from them. They only give me health of there attention and my other siblings take priority. But I really need to know more. I'm about ready to end it all. My dreams, my independence, maby my life if this gets any worse... Have you ever heard of anything like that? Sorry to bug you. I know your having trouble yourself but I'm desperate.

@Shadgirl i understand what you are going through and i think most of people will understand on this forum because many have experienced the same but ending your life for a wistle in the ear is not worth it or anything else you need to be strong and please try to ,you have to ignore it or just think of it as not harmful just relax because you have to do that its your life not a bag of garbage u will throw away like that.
Do little exercise do stuff that keeps you busy have water lots of it and good food including fruits for some time and some vitamins. Take a relaxant it will calm you down. If you give T importance T will in return give you importance just fuck T and don't let it controll you.
DONT GET DEPRESSED BECAUSE OF IT or because of anything else.

I wish you a long and a T free life a happy life.
Hang in there something will come up to help it go away soon!



Afeef

 

[Shadgirl]

Thanks for the support. Its a huge relefe to know my strange kind isn't as strange as I thought. Its even better to know that it should be ok. Thanks. And my spell checker needs updated. One wrong letter and it doesn't have a clue what word it is...

 

[Afeef]

Its okay just be fine @Shadgirl
Spelling is not a big deal. Be positive.

 

[billie48]

Your T is relatively new. Why rush into judgement that T is not livable. Like most people the beginning period is always tough and seemingly hopeless. But most manage to move on or recover. Just read up the success stories and you will know most people do suffer and have suicidal ideation, yet very few would do the unthinkable. You need to calm down and count the blessings in life. Try not to think that life is not worth living because of T. Things can and will improve. Try to learn to apply some of the things people talk about in their success stories, such as those by AnneG, Jade, Kathi, Pef, Lena, Neenie etc. Get some masking going on if T bothers you a lot. But do give it time. The body simply needs time to absorb in the T sensation to figure out that it is not a threat. Perhaps an annoyance, but not a threat at all. It is livable. Take good care.

 

[dan]

In dB? 91

stephen nagler

That is very misleading.
T loudness matching is measured in dbSL, which takes account hearing loss at the T frequency.
So for example, if the hearing loss at 12.5khz is 70dB,then the T loudness would be 91-70 = 21dBSL, which is still loud tinnitus, but cerainly there does not exist 90dB tinnitus. You would not survive 30 minutes.

 

[attheedgeofscience]

That is very misleading.

I agree. In fact, I agree 100%. And as it happens, I was going to comment on it the other day, but I decided not to since the primary purpose of this board is to act as a support board.

Furthermore, @Dr. Nagler knows full well that it is misleading because here is his own explanation of the topic from a post in the Doctor's Corner forum a while back:

The "9dB" figure means that you match your tinnitus loudness at 9dB over your threshold of hearing at that particular frequency. It is more properly referred to as 9dB SL. (Think about it for a minute. If your threshold of hearing were, say, 20 dB, you wouldn't hear a 9dB sound introduced to the audiology booth at all, right??!!)

Source: www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/tinnitus-clinic-follow-up-questions.7617/#post-87675

However, as such, I am not surprised as this would not be the first misleading statement I have seen from the good doctor.

I am also surprised by how few people actually pick up on these discrepancies. There are - for instance - several members who have commented on this thread and who (should) have knowledge of loudness matching (as I know they have investigated e.g. TRT and/or been for consultations in relation to TRT). It's actually quite basic knowledge for a tinnitus sufferer. Still... it is not until a few people such as yourself join the thread that this kind of discrepancy is pointed out.

My faith in humanity is not restored.

 

[Stink]

That is very misleading.
T loudness matching is measured in dbSL, which takes account hearing loss at the T frequency.
So for example, if the hearing loss at 12.5khz is 70dB,then the T loudness would be 91-70 = 21dBSL, which is still loud tinnitus, but cerainly there does not exist 90dB tinnitus. You would not survive 30 minutes.

car alarm, jet engine tinnitus can be 91 db sl. why not? tinnitus loudness doesn't "kill". you can survive it but easy not.

 

[attheedgeofscience]

car alarm, jet engine tinnitus can be 91 db sl. why not? tinnitus loudness doesn't "kill". you can survive it but easy not.

No. If Dr. Nagler really had 91 db SL tinnitus loudness match, then the audiology equipment would have been turned up at - say - 151 db to measure it (i.e. hearing loss of e.g. 60db at 12,5 kHz + 91 db matching tone = 151 db). But there is no audiology equipment that would go that high (for obvious reasons).

I believe most audiology equipment has a standard cap of 80 db loudness (but not always).

 

[Stink]

No. If Dr. Nagler really had 91 db SL tinnitus loudness match, then the audiology equipment would have been turned up at - say - 151 db to measure it (i.e. hearing loss of e.g. 60db at 12,5 kHz + 91 db matching tone = 151 db). But there is no audiology equipment that would go that high (for obvious reasons).

I believe most audiology equipment has a standard cap of 80 db loudness (but not always).

are you accusing @Dr. Nagler of lying?
how do you know he has hearing loss? 5 db hearing loss plus 91 db tinnitus would need equipment capable 96 db
OR MAYBE dr. nagler accidentally typed 91 db and he meant something else... 81 db? 71 db?