My Trip to Bangkok: Stem Cell Treatment [Comments]

[Hopeful1]

Thanks @grate_biff

@Markku
@attheedgeofscience
The discordent theory explained below has been there since 1990 if i read it correct.....not sure if any reasearch was done was done for a cure based on this theory

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2686891/pdf/jcn-5-11.pdf

@Vaba

Please read discordant damage theory in page 35 in the above pdf link.

Basically my OHC is damaged with intact IHC...if i can damage my IHC in the same frequencies without further damanging ohc i will be cured...but i dont know how to do it...may by listening to noise at the same frequency untill both my ihc and ohc are completely damaged!!

 

[Mario martz]

Do you know if they are doing this thing yet? If yes, I will sell my house and move to one of my friend's house. I'm serious.

https://www.ata.org/news/news/new-s...ion-method-restores-damaged-auditory-pathways

lets do it together and get a discount hehehe
seriously i will do it too,
hope they hurry up....

 

[monacco]

Got my appointment, it's for July 11, 2016

 

[Beste]

Got my appointment, it's for July 11, 2016

Wow. Good luck there

 

[Ears Hurt]

No way. I want to go too. Who do you contact?

 

[monacco]

No way. I want to go too. Who do you contact?

Contact him by messenger via their facebook there is a kind girl that she will reply instantaneously to all your questions. And she will send you all the documents explaining their treatment.

 

[GregCA]

Got my appointment, it's for July 11, 2016

Bonne chance!

 

[Ears Hurt]

@monacco do you contact Kyoto university? There was no name in the article. Sorry I might have missed something. Or is it the doctor in the link above the last one?

 

[monacco]

His name is Vincent Zamoura
@Ears Hurt
I didn't contact Kyoto university

 

[Leon909]

So, I'm also thinking about doing a stem cell treatment. Today I spoke with a doc from a stem cells clinic who said that he would recommend giving stem cells via injections into the ear + through nasal spray. Apparently administering stem cells via nasal spray gets more of them directly into the brain. My problem is I don't exactly know where I want to have the stem cells in order to have the highest effect for tinnitus. I wonder if any of you have an opinion on this. In terms of administration of stem cells, what makes sense? IV, ear injection, nasal spray or others (e.g. lumbar puncture)?

 

[Reinier]

Apparently administering stem cells via nasal spray gets more of them directly into the brain.

Is it not so that the through the nose, the stem cells can end up in the middle ear via the Eustachian tube? That to me sounds like an excellent way to get the stem cells as close as possible to the inner ear. Than the cells could get into the inner ear through the round and/or oval window. Why would you want stem cells in the brain to be effective for hearing problems? Also to me it would make sense that an injection through the eardrum is still most effective.

 

[Ears Hurt]

@monacco thank you

 

[bill 112]

Well your not alone @monacco my friend,I've just successfully gathered the funds to indeed go ahead with my own Stemcell treatment at long last!

Now comes the next part of my research and that's who to be treated by and as of yet there's no one in particular that's jumping out at me not even Stemcells 21 in Thailand.
I'm not convinced by them as of yet,their page seems very professional but further digging makes me suspicious.I've mentioned it here before about the strange reviews left on their page that sound more like employees than previous patients,leaving reviews like"Stemcells are great and good for the body"What regular person randomly leaves a review like that?None being the appropriate answer.
I did find one review interesting,it was supposedly from an American woman treated at the clinic and although the words written were obviously not from herself I still tried to get in contact with her and as of yet there has been no response which worries me but also is understandable at the same time.

I'm a sceptic until proven otherwise of almost everything(so shoot me)hence why I dig and dig until I'm convinced by it and I will continue to do so until then.There's still many unanswered questions at the moment but I will ultimately receive a Stemcell treatment and soon too but I don't want my desperation to cloud my judgement.

@Bobby B every single audiogram I've done since onset has returned perfect despite my noise related worsening,they simply prove nothing in regards to T and hidden hearing loss.As I've stated before and I will sing this till the day I die and that's the problem lies beneath the haircell i.e synapse/neuron/auditory nerve fibres etc and I'm by no means alone on this,the sooner we get over the haircell concept the better in my opinion.

As promised I am doing LLLT at the moment and I did say I would report back on the treatment but simply as of yet there is nothing to report but it's still early days regarding my LLLT treatment but I'm not overly optimistic about it.

Cheers.

 

[Markku]

strange reviews left on their page that sound more like employees than previous patients,leaving reviews like"Stemcells are great and good for the body"What regular person randomly leaves a review like that?None being the appropriate answer.

Another interesting fact is that many of their like numbers on their Facebook updates seem to be of a slightly suspicious nature...

While other updates have much fewer:

The difference is striking in my opinion. Some of the post like amounts seem suspicious considering the relatively few shares / comments, and the number of fans the page has (remember that organically Facebook delivers a Page update to the newsfeeds of only a small percentage of fans).

Plus some of the high-liked content are images that contain more than 20% text, and thus have not been able to run Facebook ads for.

But yeah... just something I noticed.

 

[Mithrandir]

the most credible thing for stem21, that's ateos & fernandogil

 

[Hopeful1]

the most credible thing for stem21, that's ateos & fernandogil

They both reported improvement but how do we know that it is not placebo effect.

 

[Hopeful1]

Check this video at 32:45 ... looks like merely inserting stem cells in the ear does not fix it....i think the research is going on how to make the stem cells repair the damaged hair cells....maybe these thailand guys just injecting them and hoping it will do it.

The speaker says our own cells will be brought to there primitive state and influenced, designed to attach them
to hair cells. Looks like science fiction as of now...can the thailand clinics do all this?

 

[Reinier]

Looks like science fiction as of now...can the thailand clinics do all this?

I agree with this. On the other hand, so much about stem cell potential/mechanisms is not yet known. Most likely you heard the news about stroke patients injected with stem cells in their brains?
Why some of these people improved is not yet understood. They must have had an incline it would do something. Why else would you inject patients with stem cells?
Impressive what Stanford is doing. I like the clip. I will watch it completely tomorrow

 

[Reinier]

Now comes the next part of my research and that's who to be treated by

You probably included: http://www.the-stem-cell-center.com/component/content/article/39-deafness.html

 

[Aaron123]

The speaker says our own cells will be brought to there primitive state and influenced, designed to attach them to hair cells. Looks like science fiction as of now

Induced pluripotent stem cells (iPSCs) are being used now and are not science fiction. See for example http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2873974/ for a hearing-related example where they grew "hair cell like" cells.

Things are more advanced for eye disorders where they have been used to treat macular degeneration. From 2014: http://www.nature.com/news/japanese-woman-is-first-recipient-of-next-generation-stem-cells-1.15915 They are restarting the trial using donated iPSCs since there was an issue with the second patient: http://asia.nikkei.com/Tech-Science/Science/Japan-to-begin-transplants-using-donor-iPS-cells Note that the cost of the first person was upwards of $1 million and they are hoping that the use of donated cells will bring the cost down to $200,000 or so.

The use of donated iPSCs is likely to become more common due to a higher rate of mutations in cells derived from older patients. Using cells from older patients requires multiple lines to be grown and screened for mutations. (See for example, http://www.nature.com/news/mutated-mitochondria-could-hold-back-stem-cell-therapies-1.19752)

can the thailand clinics do all this?

No, though according to their web site they do screen the umbilical cord stem cells for "chromosome abnormalities".

looks like merely inserting stem cells in the ear does not fix it.

It is very, very unlikely to regrow dead hair cells. Stem cells derived from umbilical cord or adipose tissue may have the ability to seek out and repair damaged tissue. To the extent that some hearing loss/tinnitus is due to damaged rather than dead cells, those stem cells could help.

(There was some other exciting news on the eye treatment fron recently: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/03/160309135653.htm or http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v531/n7594/full/nature17181.html where discuss the use of endogenous stem cells to regrow eye lenses.)

 

[Mithrandir]

So stem cell could help for hearing related problem like tinnitus or not ? That's the big question !

 

[Aaron123]

So stem cell could help for hearing related problem like tinnitus or not ? That's the big question !

Indeed it is! We have a couple of positive reports of improvements in tinnitus here (I think we are two for two in terms of improvement?), and as noted in this (or another) thread there are documented cases of improvements in hearing. The reality is that, as with all treatments, it may help some people and not others. Unfortunately there is no way to know who might benefit ahead of time.

We will know more about hearing loss when the results of the cord blood trial are available.

 

[bill 112]

Another interesting fact is that many of their like numbers on their Facebook updates seem to be of a slightly suspicious nature...

View attachment 10606

View attachment 10607

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While other updates have much fewer:

View attachment 10610

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The difference is striking in my opinion. Some of the post like amounts seem suspicious considering the relatively few shares / comments, and the number of fans the page has (remember that organically Facebook delivers a Page update to the newsfeeds of only a small percentage of fans).

Plus some of the high-liked content are images that contain more than 20% text, and thus have not been able to run Facebook ads for.

But yeah... just something I noticed.

I noticed that very thing too, also when you have a business page you can boost any new post you make with fake views so it will appear constantly in people's newsfeed but I'm not sure if it also includes likes, pretty confident it does though.

The whole page is hugely suspicious in my opinion.

 

[bill 112]

So stem cell could help for hearing related problem like tinnitus or not ? That's the big question !

Ultimately it will but when is the question that needs answering.It could be next month or 40 years from now we just don't know.

 

[whiskeykonteq]

So stem cell could help for hearing related problem like tinnitus or not ? That's the big question !

According to this study they should: http://www.researchposters.com/Posters/AAOHNSF/AAO2013/SP 384.pdf (abstract of the study on pubmed: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23026045)

Again, this probably means that some hearing should be restored after UCB-MSC I.V. therapy. And if tinnitus is consequence of hearing loss, then tinnitus should go away as well .

BTW, I have hearing loss in higher frequencies (above 8kHz) and extremely annoying tinnitus which I can more feel then hear (It sound/feels like vibrating of high voltage electrical power lines or neon lights) which I develop after attending very loud indoor concert and standing unfortunately in first row

@monacco: I'm currently in email exchange with stemcells21. Maybe we see each other in July

 

[whiskeykonteq]

I was also considering Cryocord in Malasia (where L Francis had stem cells treatment: http://deafdude1.blogspot.com/2011/08/l-francis-gets-20db-improvement-with.html) but they answered me:

We have limited success with hearing loss but not much information on tinnitus as this can be due to many causes.

I would like to suggest you to consult our advisor if you happened to come Kuala Lumpur.

Please do not hesitate to contact me if you have any queries.

Thank you.

I also contacted Beike biotech in China, but after checking their website (http://beikebiotech.com/research/) I found that they have probably forged some cases. They have exactly same patient case study papers for 19 year old american male and female. Only thing that differs is Male/Female, everything else is copy/paste.

http://beikebiotech.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Hearing-Loss-Case-Study-American-Female-19.pdf
http://beikebiotech.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Hearing-Loss-Case-Study-American-Male-19.pdf

They also have 3rd patient case study (one that ATEOS posted) ... 4 year old with ABRs etc ... but I don't know if I can trust them on anything.

 

[Ears Hurt]

This is why I was curious if anyone has been to the stem cell clinic in Phoenix Arizona. Anyone do research on them? I sent an inquiry to them today?

 

[whiskeykonteq]

This is why I was curious if anyone has been to the stem cell clinic in Phoenix Arizona. Anyone do research on them? I sent an inquiry to them today?

If you mean the-stem-cell-center.com, I asked them (2 months ago) about stem cell therapy for NIHL tinnitus and here is what they have answered:

Most of the time tinnitus caused by noise exposure damages the hair cells in your ear. The stem cells that we use are not able to become hair cells so if this is the case then our treatment would be unlikely to help. If your tinnitus is caused by auditory nerve damage (vestibular-cochlear nerve) then we may be able to help, but the chances would still be low. I hope this helps to address your questions. If you need anything else, please let us know.

Best Regards,
Josh

 

[Hopeful1]

The stem cells that we use are not able to become hair cells

Do we know if the bangkok clinics use a different stems cells to the one above.

 

[whiskeykonteq]

Do we know if the bangkok clinics use a different stems cells to the one above.

Looks like yes, the-stem-cell-center.com is using only autologous adipose tissue derived MSC, and Bangkok clinic is using both autologous adipose tissue derived MSC and Umbilical Cord (Blood) MSC (donated if your parents have not saved yours upon your birth). ATEOS went for UC(B)-MSC in Bangkok, and @FERNANDO GIL for autologous adipose tissue derived.

Cheers