My Trip to Bangkok: Stem Cell Treatment [Comments]

[VRZ78]

[QUOTE="bill 112, post: 219313, member: 3319ent Christmas shopping the other day wearing the best Peltor earmuffs you can buy,the mall wasn't that loud especially with the muffs on but I still came home in horrible pain.Its hard for me to travel or do anything really.[/QUOTE]
I think with noise cancelling earphones you hear 0 dB but I may be wrong

 

[lolkas]

[QUOTE="bill 112, post: 219313, member: 3319ent Christmas shopping the other day wearing the best Peltor earmuffs you can buy,the mall wasn't that loud especially with the muffs on but I still came home in horrible pain.Its hard for me to travel or do anything really.

I think with noise cancelling earphones you hear 0 dB but I may be wrong[/QUOTE]
100% wrong and active cancellation headphones will wreck your ears, confirmed multiple times on this board. Noise isolating (passive) are the best.

 

[grate_biff]

I'm aware of the synapse loss theory of T and that's exactly what I think is wrong with me.I can hear up to 16,000hz but my god is every little sound painful and T inducing.
I pictured that these connections may be still intact but just damaged and that maybe Stemcells could help repair that damage?I can honestly hear my inner ear nerves vizzling and zinging as if there's a broken wire in there,it's like an electrical feeling I can feel in the back of my head when sound enters my ears my T goes up and I can feel that sizzle surging with it along with pain and pressure.Its nearly impossible to describe.

So basically this is just a waste of time is what your thinking?I fear you may be right.

Hi Bill,

The way you describe your T. and H. is exactly how I would describe mine. Electrical T with vibrating or machinegun like pattern to it. Vizling and zinging, indeed. The reactiveness of it also is spot on. Someone opening a bag of chips(even if its 20 feet away) will hurt like a motherfucker. That sizzling sound is brutal.
But you are definetly worse off than me, as I have no problems with people whisling or even talk to me within normal pitch and volume.

Ok, so what is puzzeling to me is that your hearing in the higher pitch is "normal", or so you have been told.
I mean, have you got an audiogram to show for this?

For arguments say I´ll post my audiogram from 8-20 kHz here:
red curve=right ear
blue curve=left ear

As you can see, I have quite severe hearingloss in both ears, but I only percieve T and H in my right ear.
And if you look at the chart it it certainly can be explained by the dramatic drop or "dip" as they call it in my right ear. Since there is no dramatic "dips" in my left ear, even though the hearing loss is actually slightly more severe in that ear.

I know about the whole "hidden hearingloss" thing and synaptic ribbon loss that wont show in these audiograms and there is also the question of inner cell damage and outer cell damage and so on.

But since atleast our perception and symptoms are so similar it would be at most interest to me and maybe others here to have a look at your audiogram in the upper pitch area.
I mean, are you to say you have a straight curve between 0-10 db in both ears?
And still your H. is more severe? And overall we have excactly the same symptoms!

I´m just dying to see your audigram as I think it will tell us if not the whole story, it will give us something.
Hope you find this interesting too

When it comes to stemcell/neurotrophic grow factor - treatment I´m with you all the way.
Its been two years for me being in hell with constant suecidal thoughts. Its got to end some how.
If we only could be certain what treatment would work for us....

 

[Hopeful1]

@bill 112

Since your post this morning i did a bit of research.

http://www.nature.com/articles/srep25200

This paper suggests coding errors after synapses damage and recovery causes hidden hearing loss.



the above researcher explains HHL at the end of the video at around 1 hour he says NIHL is harder to treat he thinking apart from synapses there something really not right with the noise damaged haircells eventhough they can detect the sounds which causes synspses not to reconnect.

So, we do not know if stemcells can fix NIHL yet.... @whiskeykonteq still has his T more or less the same (noise induced T)

..in contrast

@attheedgeofscience has his T improved...(possibly head injury caused his T)

We have to wait and see if someone with NIHL / T takes the plunge and goes for stemcells. If anyone gets the results, i will start saving money for stemcells.

 

[Tom Cnyc]

@bill 112 nobody can say for sure what you should do. If it was me, I'd go to Stemcells 21, mainly b/c of the testament of ATEOS. Not necessarily b/c he got relief, but because his tireless research indicated that the Thai biotech community was advanced compared to competition.

If you're really suffering to the point that you have issues leaving the house, it may be worth a shot - even if noise induced hearing issues were not treated in the past. At the very least you won't regret having not tried - and you're likely to see some other health improvements.

 

[bill 112]

Hi Bill,

The way you describe your T. and H. is exactly how I would describe mine. Electrical T with vibrating or machinegun like pattern to it. Vizling and zinging, indeed. The reactiveness of it also is spot on. Someone opening a bag of chips(even if its 20 feet away) will hurt like a motherfucker. That sizzling sound is brutal.
But you are definetly worse off than me, as I have no problems with people whisling or even talk to me within normal pitch and volume.

Ok, so what is puzzeling to me is that your hearing in the higher pitch is "normal", or so you have been told.
I mean, have you got an audiogram to show for this?

For arguments say I´ll post my audiogram from 8-20 kHz here:
red curve=right ear
blue curve=left ear
View attachment 11720
As you can see, I have quite severe hearingloss in both ears, but I only percieve T and H in my right ear.
And if you look at the chart it it certainly can be explained by the dramatic drop or "dip" as they call it in my right ear. Since there is no dramatic "dips" in my left ear, even though the hearing loss is actually slightly more severe in that ear.

I know about the whole "hidden hearingloss" thing and synaptic ribbon loss that wont show in these audiograms and there is also the question of inner cell damage and outer cell damage and so on.

But since atleast our perception and symptoms are so similar it would be at most interest to me and maybe others here to have a look at your audiogram in the upper pitch area.
I mean, are you to say you have a straight curve between 0-10 db in both ears?
And still your H. is more severe? And overall we have excactly the same symptoms!

I´m just dying to see your audigram as I think it will tell us if not the whole story, it will give us something.
Hope you find this interesting too

When it comes to stemcell/neurotrophic grow factor - treatment I´m with you all the way.
Its been two years for me being in hell with constant suecidal thoughts. Its got to end some how.
If we only could be certain what treatment would work for us....

I do indeed have a recent audiogram showing no loss between 0-8000hz.
I don't however have an audiogram that goes higher than that as literally nowhere here in Ireland does an audiogram like this.

A friend of mine who is a trainee audiologist derived his own albeit rudimentary test just to see were there any gaps in my hearing and to see how high I could hear.He started at 100hz and increased it by 100hz all the way upto 17,000hz.What we discovered is that I can at least hear every tone and that there's no gaps all the way up to 16,000 hz Bilaterally with a slight increase needed to hear 16,000hz in my left ear.Now this is by no means accurate at all but it at least gave me an idea of whether or not my higher frequencies are still there or if there are any gaps in between.I'll post a picture of my audiogram below.

 

[bill 112]

She did say that with the second image it should have been 10db at 4000hz as it was her error so make of it what you will.The question I have is,why am I hearing in below zero at certain frequencies?

 

[Hopeful1]

The issue for T and H is not the ability to hear but the intensity of the signal is less due to synapsis so it does not matter how good our sensitivity to pick up sounds.

Can you pickup speech in noisy environments well?

 

[grate_biff]

@bill 112 Thats pretty much how my audiogram 0-8 kHz looks like too, bit more damage at 4 kHz though.
I had to ask specificly for testing the high pitch area of my hearing which tell a totally different story and in many ways is a blueprint of my struggle with T and H.
Not that it helps much though.

 

[RaZaH]

I envy your hearing tests

 

[bill 112]

I do struggle with picking up sound in backround noise,I think I do but my audiologist said my sound detection in noise was good.

Here's the funny thing,I can't test myself to see how my sound detection in backround noise is as it becomes way too painful to even attempt it so I can't get an answer to my question as I can't test it due to my ears folding up before I even get a chance.
When I went to two hearing tests,the first audiologist done a speech recognition test and she said it was very good,but the second audiologist done a more thorough test with more noise and it worsened my H and T to astronomical levels!
See my below recognition test done in the Beacon hospital Dublin which is a really advanced private hospital so their level of testing was of a high standard.It doesn't say anything only that it was good and within normal levels,pity however that they couldn't test my hearing beyond 8,000hz.I did do a hearing test in Specsavers up to 10,000hz that also showed no loss.

 

[Hopeful1]

When researhers tested pilots for HHL what they found is 3 db loss of speech in noise ..... only 3db but wait 3db means half as bad!

 

[Bobby B]

These hearing test results are quite good in fact.
Everyone who didn't spend their youth as a monk in a monastery or in the desert must have some degree of hearing loss, hidden or not which can be filed under normal "tear and wear" aging if you enjoy music and going out or other noisy activities like shooting, motorcycles etc..

All these teenagers glued to their smartphones will also experience some degree of vision loss as well..that's just the way it is.

 

[bill 112]

When researhers tested pilots for HHL what they found is 3 db loss of speech in noise ..... only 3db but wait 3db means half as bad!

I'd love to get an accurate HHL test done on myself but sadly they don't exist at the moment,that's something Libermann is working on isn't he?

 

[bill 112]

When researhers tested pilots for HHL what they found is 3 db loss of speech in noise ..... only 3db but wait 3db means half as bad!

Wasn't that a good result though?3db is less than a blowing leaf isn't it?I haven't done any BAR hearing tests or anything like that as in my opinon they are just way too risky but I'm sure something off would turn up there.

 

[bill 112]

Got my price back from Stemcells21. $32,500 for 60,000,000 umbilical cord Stemcells with a 7 day treatment plan.

What do you guys think?Isnt umbilical cord Stemcells better than let's say adipose Stemcells?And do they carry more risk?

 

[Hopeful1]

Why dont you email Stefan Heller from stanford .... explain your condition and suffering and tell that you spending your life saving on stemcells..and give details of what stemcells are going to give you and how.

Ask him what he thinks about the stemcells if there any chance they can help you.

He is one of leading researchers in this field.

@bill 112

 

[VRZ78]

Marcelo Rivolta is working on stem cell as well try to ask him.

But those researchers would probably say it's a scam

 

[bill 112]

I suspect the researchers would say it's a scam no matter what the outcome was,if they heard I was spending that amount of money anyone would advise against it,no one wants to see you blow money on something that's unproven so who can blame them,it's the logical answer to the question.

But when your suffering like I am a gamble is worth taking,it's a lot of money I know but it seems like a shot worth taking to me,I can't live like this and even if there's the tiniest chance it will work then I'll take it,it's that or die and that's the dark reality of the situation sadly.

 

[PatrickG]

Got my price back from Stemcells21. $32,500 for 60,000,000 umbilical cord Stemcells with a 7 day treatment plan.

What do you guys think?Isnt umbilical cord Stemcells better than let's say adipose Stemcells?And do they carry more risk?

What a robbery! Makes me so upset that they can charge that because they know people are desperate. I agree with previous posters, mail a couple of researchers first and see if there are any options. Best wishes

 

[bill 112]

What a robbery! Makes me so upset that they can charge that because they know people are desperate. I agree with previous posters, mail a couple of researchers first and see if there are any options. Best wishes

I know,it's an absolute joke what they charge desperate people for this treatment.The more you look at the world the more you realise it's a shitty greedy dump.

Another member here messaged me awhile back about Stemcells,they had emailed a few researchers who said it was unlikely to help.

But then we have people's experiences here like ATEOS and Fernando who had good improvement after the treatment.

I have also been emailing two ladies the last while,they too went for Stemcell treatments abroad but for illnesses not related to T,MS and and the other had a stroke.The MS patient seen MASSIVE improvement and the stroke lady seen modest but ongoing improvement in her symptoms since her treatment.The MS lady made me cry with her story it was that moving and relatable.

I know these have nothing to do with T but it at least shows it must be doing something?

 

[VRZ78]

What a robbery! Makes me so upset that they can charge that because they know people are desperate. I agree with previous posters, mail a couple of researchers first and see if there are any options. Best wishes

I don't know if it's that much of a robbery. Those are donated stem cells from umbilical cords and they are probably not that easy to get and then you must conserve them and test then and make them divide...

I remember in the article of the guy who got the usage of his arms back after having a spinal cord injury thanks to a stem cell based clinical trials that the researchers at to spend a very high amount of time in the lab to get them ready.

They charge "only" 15000 if you want to use your own stem cells.

A lot of treatments are expensive you just don't see the price as its covered by the health care system.

 

[Hopeful1]

If it works its cheap otherwise its very expensive.

 

[Hopeful1]

If i were you i would ask as many experts as possible before parting with my money.
@bill 112

 

[Tom Cnyc]

I don't know if it's that much of a robbery. Those are donated stem cells from umbilical cords and they are probably not that easy to get and then you must conserve them and test then and make them divide...

I remember in the article of the guy who got the usage of his arms back after having a spinal cord injury thanks to a stem cell based clinical trials that the researchers at to spend a very high amount of time in the lab to get them ready.

They charge "only" 15000 if you want to use your own stem cells.

A lot of treatments are expensive you just don't see the price as its covered by the health care system.

agreed. my hip surgery was almost $75k. Of course that's not out of pocket... but yeah. Cutting edge treatments are expensive. Much of what you're paying for is research - even though ironically in this case you are research.

 

[BBApple]

I know,it's an absolute joke what they charge desperate people for this treatment.The more you look at the world the more you realise it's a shitty greedy dump.

Another member here messaged me awhile back about Stemcells,they had emailed a few researchers who said it was unlikely to help.

But then we have people's experiences here like ATEOS and Fernando who had good improvement after the treatment.

I have also been emailing two ladies the last while,they too went for Stemcell treatments abroad but for illnesses not related to T,MS and and the other had a stroke.The MS patient seen MASSIVE improvement and the stroke lady seen modest but ongoing improvement in her symptoms since her treatment.The MS lady made me cry with her story it was that moving and relatable.

I know these have nothing to do with T but it at least shows it must be doing something?

You have to be careful with anecdotal reports on the internet. We have success stories for any therapy imaginable. Check out http://www.earthclinic.com/cures/tinnitus2.html and you'll see what I mean. LLLT, anecdotally, seems to help some people but fails most of the time. With that kind of investment at stake, I'd want some certainty that it's going to work. What always goes through my mind is if stem cells really work, why isn't Shatner or Letterman or Bono or Chris Martin or Madonna or Streisand getting this treatment?

Only you know your true situation so it is hard for any outsider to judge either way. If you do go ahead with it, may it work and rid you of the noise for good!

 

[gotyoubynuts]

What always goes through my mind is if stem cells really work, why isn't Shatner or Letterman or Bono or Chris Martin or Madonna or Streisand getting this treatment?

Maybe they listen to their doctors advice

No western doctor is going to recommend experimental stem cell treatments that can cause tumors and other problems

 

[bill 112]

You have to be careful with anecdotal reports on the internet. We have success stories for any therapy imaginable. Check out http://www.earthclinic.com/cures/tinnitus2.html and you'll see what I mean. LLLT, anecdotally, seems to help some people but fails most of the time. With that kind of investment at stake, I'd want some certainty that it's going to work. What always goes through my mind is if stem cells really work, why isn't Shatner or Letterman or Bono or Chris Martin or Madonna or Streisand getting this treatment?

Only you know your true situation so it is hard for any outsider to judge either way. If you do go ahead with it, may it work and rid you of the noise for good!

I agree with the success stories part but these women were the real deal,I spoke with one of them via Skype so she was indeed an authentic Stemcell patient.

LLLT has failed for me,I didn't notice anything substantial from it apart from it making my ear warm.

I often wonder why the celebs aren't doing it too,but maybe they are and we just don't hear about it.They spend millions on their appearance alone so then getting this treatment wouldn't be out of the question to me.
As for Shatner or Chris Martin it's hard to say,but judging by interviews of them talking about their T they seem fully habituated to it or just aren't aware of these potential treatments.If I had stable T that didn't bother me in the slightest and that I could live my life with it then I too wouldn't even consider getting this treatment,I had fully habituated to my T for three years and was willing to live the rest of my life like that no problem at all,but when H arrived in 2014 and then drastically worsened in 2016 living a life is no longer feasible to me anymore hence why I'm going ahead with this treatment.

I have nothing to lose at this point,I contemplate ending it everyday so this gives me a chance at improvement regardless of how small that chance may be.

I do appreciate the concern though and I understand where your coming from,funny thing is if I come back with an amazing success story I'd wager nearly everyone here would be queuing up to go lol.

 

[bill 112]

Maybe they listen to their doctors advice

No western doctor is going to recommend experimental stem cell treatments that can cause tumors and other problems

My doctor wouldn't even approve doing LLLT,he just clicks on his computer to see what the western standard for care is(sound therapy,CBT)and recommends that everytime I see him.

No doctor is going to recommend anything that hasn't been proven or is accepted in western medicine.

 

[VRZ78]

You have to be careful with anecdotal reports on the internet. We have success stories for any therapy imaginable. Check out http://www.earthclinic.com/cures/tinnitus2.html and you'll see what I mean. LLLT, anecdotally, seems to help some people but fails most of the time. With that kind of investment at stake, I'd want some certainty that it's going to work. What always goes through my mind is if stem cells really work, why isn't Shatner or Letterman or Bono or Chris Martin or Madonna or Streisand getting this treatment?

Only you know your true situation so it is hard for any outsider to judge either way. If you do go ahead with it, may it work and rid you of the noise for good!

Well Bono and Martin are still making record and performing live in big tours so I don't think they have H or reactive T which is the big problem.

One famous singer in France had quite bad H for two years and she had to stop performing during that time. She said that most sounds at home was causing her pain. Apparently she has been put into intensive care with perfusions and stuff and now she's back performing.
Noone really knows what treatment she had though.
If you were famous I bet you'd be cured already bill...