New University of Michigan Tinnitus Discovery — Signal Timing

[threefirefour]

@linearb very important question. When you did the original trial, what did the sound they used sound like?

 

[Paulmanlike]

Looking at neuromodulation (MuteButton) on a different thread...

See

https://www.neuromoddevices.com/

I'm just wondering, how is Susan Shore's device different from this? Both talk about somatosensory - stimulating that with acoustic sounds...

Neuromodulation is also being talked about in TRI 2018, is Susan Shore's device neuromodulation or a different thing altogether?

 

[Localboy]

I'm just wondering, how is Susan Shores device different from this? Both talk about somasensory - stimulating that with acoustic sounds...

Neuromodulation is also being talked about in TRI 2018, is Susan Shores device neuromodulation or a different thing altogether?

They are different devices, see what @linearb said:

@davidamee86 the U of M researchers told me that despite being bimodal devices, the mutebutton tech is fundamentally different than what U of M is doing. I'm afraid I don't remember the details

 

[Paulmanlike]

They are different devices, see what @linearb said:

Thanks for info

 

[threefirefour]

A quick refresh in case it was not posted in full:

https://www.researchgate.net/public..._to_reduce_tinnitus_in_Guinea_pigs_and_humans

Here's the full article that talks about the whole experiment. Posting here for safekeeping.

 

[leledany]

Why in the hell, the person who took the treatment do not post nothing! I read in two cases they were completely healed, if it would heppened to me I would say to the entire world! Sadly I smell a scam here

 

[threefirefour]

Why in the hell, the person who took the treatment do not post nothing! I read in two cases they were completely healed, if it would heppened to me I would say to the entire world! Sadly I smell a scam here

Why do you smell a scam? You're assuming that one of those two people, of every tinnitus sufferer in the world, uses this forum which is unlikely. We're lucky to have the few test cases like @linearb. This is a reputable research team who works at a university. Not only that, but they originally failed, and they fixed it. If it's a scam, then why not just release it the first time anyways?

 

[threefirefour]

They are different devices, see what @linearb said:

I think mutebutton works on the mouth. This is neck oriented.

 

[EddieA]

Why in the hell, the person who took the treatment do not post nothing! I read in two cases they were completely healed, if it would heppened to me I would say to the entire world! Sadly I smell a scam here

It is possible that they made the participants sign an NDA or something since it was just a trial. Maybe they were only allowed to publish a statistic based on results rather than individual testimonials since it's not on the market yet. I emailed them to participate in this year's trial, so hopefully they will pick me and I can personally answer your questions (if I'm allowed to).

 

[leledany]

It is possible that they made the participants sign an NDA or something since it was just a trial. Maybe they were only allowed to publish a statistic based on results rather than individual testimonials since it's not on the market yet. I emailed them to participate in this year's trial, so hopefully they will pick me and I can personally answer your questions (if I'm allowed to).

Why asking permission? You cannot use anonymous or another account? is it better follow their rules or give some hope to some millions of people?

 

[EddieA]

Why asking permission? You cannot use anonymous or another account? is it better follow their rules or give some hope to some millions of people?

How could it be anonymous if there were only 2 people who experienced success? That would be like playing Guess Who with only 2 pictures left on the board. I have a feeling that they want them to keep quiet for legal reasons.

On a side note, I don't think that this project would be as widely covered as it was at the beginning of this year if there wasn't something behind it. No one likes tinnitus, so let's just give it time and see if they are able to improve their approach for this upcoming trial. I personally think that a device will be much more likely to cure it than medication will be (at least in the near future).

 

[Jiri]

I personally think that a device will be much more likely to cure it than medication will be (at least in the near future).

Agreed. On another forum it is mentioned that tinnitus is usually perceived within the frequency range 125 - 16 000 Hz and intensity 5 - 15 dB. This device showed that it could lower the perception of tinnitus by some 12 dB.

That's a huge leap. Even if we have to use it daily it will give us the relieve until someone comes up with the ultimate regenarative medicine for both accute and chronic tinnitus. Just my opinion.

 

[threefirefour]

How could it be anonymous if there were only 2 people who experienced success? That would be like playing Guess Who with only 2 pictures left on the board. I have a feeling that they want them to keep quiet for legal reasons.

On a side note, I don't think that this project would be as widely covered as it was at the beginning of this year if there wasn't something behind it. No one likes tinnitus, so let's just give it time and see if they are able to improve their approach for this upcoming trial. I personally think that a device will be much more likely to cure it than medication will be (at least in the near future).

Great points Edd. Pardon my behindness, but when is the next trial? August 2018 or something? I think this will be the make or break trial.

 

[EddieA]

Great points Edd. Pardon my behindness, but when is the next trial? August 2018 or something? I think this will be the make or break trial.

They didn't specify.

This is what the email said :

Hello,

Thank you for your interest in our work and study. The trial will begin in early Fall. We have recorded your email and you will be contacted over the next several months regarding your potential participation.

For further reading, please see our article at: http://stm.sciencemag.org/content/10/422/eaal3175?rss=1

Thanks!

The Shore Lab

 

[threefirefour]

They didn't specify.

This is what the email said :

Hello,

Thank you for your interest in our work and study. The trial will begin in early Fall. We have recorded your email and you will be contacted over the next several months regarding your potential participation.

For further reading, please see our article at: http://stm.sciencemag.org/content/10/422/eaal3175?rss=1

Thanks!

The Shore Lab

Thanks for the reply. Yeah it was presumptuous for me to make that assumption. Sounds like its in September or October. I hope you get accepted, it would be awesome to have someone involved in the trial here at TT.

 

[acufenero]

Why asking permission? You cannot use anonymous or another account? is it better follow their rules or give some hope to some millions of people?

God dammit, this is really getting more and more ridiculous every day. Honestly, I don't know if you're asking this seriously or you're just making fun of people.

 

[leledany]

God dammit, this is really getting more and more ridiculous every day. Honestly, I don't know if you're asking this seriously or you're just making fun of people.

And you? Are you only able to say that someone says BS and so on? Your posting are totally useless!

 

[lapidus]

Why in the hell, the person who took the treatment do not post nothing! I read in two cases they were completely healed, if it would heppened to me I would say to the entire world! Sadly I smell a scam here

You have to take into account that the majority of tinnitus patients aren't active in online support forums like this one. Tinnitus Talk is the biggest T forum on the internet and we're only 23,360 members and millions of people suffer from tinnitus. I don't find it strange at all that these two patients aren't posting here.

 

[Felix Dujardin]

I can trust enought in the seriousness of the project, but one thing : Susan Shore said she has mild tinnitus.

So why she didn't use the treatment on herself to heal it, to test on herself the efficacity ???

Even if her tinnitus is not bothering like she claims, we all love silence, and everyone I think would try this if it was possible.

 

[hans799]

So why she didn't use the treatment on herself to heal it, to test on herself the efficacity ???

Did she say anywhere that she didn't? Would she brag about it if she did?

For heaven's sake, people. These are not some punks in a startup. These are well-respected researchers from a highly reputable university. I know that in the last few years, the word "expert" has become almost a slur, but pretty pretty please, scrape together your remaining faith that there ARE legitimate scientific outfits still out there.

 

[MickV]

Bunch of idiots ASS uming it is a scam. Wait a year!!!! To know! It is a make or break trial I agree. At least we are getting closer to understanding the behavior of tinnitus!!! Hold on people!!!

 

[threefirefour]

I can trust enought in the seriousness of the project, but one thing : Susan Shore said she has mild tinnitus.

So why she didn't use the treatment on herself to heal it, to test on herself the efficacity ???

Even if her tinnitus is not bothering like she claims, we all love silence, and everyone I think would try this if it was possible.

Well the first time around it failed trials, meaning there was no reason for her to try it. Now it succeeded, and it's possible she is now trying it out for herself, but we wouldn't know because she hasn't said anything about it yet.

 

[Spiral]

I think that the notion of calling something a scam before a trial has been completed is ridiculous. A scam indicates that they are trying to swindle people out of money, but last I checked it's not even on the market yet.

 

[Ambassador]

Did she say anywhere that she didn't? Would she brag about it if she did?

For heaven's sake, people. These are not some punks in a startup. These are well-respected researchers from a highly reputable university. I know that in the last few years, the word "expert" has become almost a slur, but pretty pretty please, scrape together your remaining faith that there ARE legitimate scientific outfits still out there.

I have to differ with you there, Dr. Shore is the only career professional here. The rest are pretty much punks who are working for a grade and then they are out of there.
Did you see the video? Not an impressive showing by the students.
This therapy even if it does work is never going to be 100% effective for everyone. What do you think would happen if she announced that she tried it and it didn't help her?

 

[Jiri]

punks

I didn't know that biomedical engineers were punks...

 

[threefirefour]

I have to differ with you there, Dr. Shore is the only career professional here. The rest are pretty much punks who are working for a grade and then they are out of there.
Did you see the video? Not an impressive showing by the students.
This therapy even if it does work is never going to be 100% effective for everyone. What do you think would happen if she announced that she tried it and it didn't help her?

Call them what you want; you can't argue with results.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

Susan Shore and early career associates said it's often the neck or other parts of the body that have a physical connection to the neck including the central nervous system which controls most everything. Weak dorsal cochlear networks, pain, joint and nerve functions relate to the neck as the bully. Most of the time, the neck is where it begins. Ringing in one ear and switching back and forth to one's other ear which may include jaw functions, ringing increasing in volume during the day and night and headaches often relate to the neck.

 

[Ambassador]

I didn't know that biomedical engineers were punks...

I'm just using the term taken from the post I replied to.

"These are not some punks in a startup"

I guess they are only punks when they are engaged in a startup.

 

[leledany]

As T suffer I would be in the seventh heaven if they succeed but I read too many first trial with amazing results but they all vanished. Now i will put my hopes only when I have concrete testimony. Why no feedback from patients or acquatancies?

 

[GregCA]

Why asking permission? You cannot use anonymous or another account? is it better follow their rules or give some hope to some millions of people?

It's better to follow their rules, for a variety of reasons that I hope are pretty obvious to everyone.

As T suffer I would be in the seventh heaven if they succeed but I read too many first trial with amazing results but they all vanished. Now i will put my hopes only when I have concrete testimony. Why no feedback from patients or acquatancies?

There was feedback in here from @linearb (who was cautious about what he was allowed to disclose, I think he may even had asked Dr Shore some permission for certain disclosures) - and there likely is a legally binding document preventing free disclosure (this has been addressed in prior posts already - not sure why you bring it up again). If patients aren't allowed to disclose, they generally aren't allowed to disclose to anyone (family, friends, acquaintances, priests, gods, cats, etc) outside of people who "need to know" (the NDA is generally explicit about who that covers).