New University of Michigan Tinnitus Discovery — Signal Timing

[leledany]

Do not talk to me about what is legal or illegal. When got t, I found only incompetent doctors that steal money. I have T for loud noise and when I went to ER the day after, the doctor gave me antibiotics that I found out be ototoxic. Another just steal money and other even smile. They even are not able to make a standard protocol to treat these emegercy so they basically are allowed to give you evrything. So shut up

 

[threefirefour]

As T suffer I would be in the seventh heaven if they succeed but I read too many first trial with amazing results but they all vanished. Now i will put my hopes only when I have concrete testimony. Why no feedback from patients or acquatancies?

Actually this first trial failed. This is the (second) first trial with a new product, and it works; suggesting an evolution. After reading the paper, it seems that the week that gave the best results was the 4th week, which was the last week. This suggests that we'll see better results with a long term trial like phase-II this fall.

 

[acufenero]

Why in the hell, the person who took the treatment do not post nothing! I read in two cases they were completely healed, if it would heppened to me I would say to the entire world! Sadly I smell a scam here

Why asking permission? You cannot use anonymous or another account? is it better follow their rules or give some hope to some millions of people?

As T suffer I would be in the seventh heaven if they succeed but I read too many first trial with amazing results but they all vanished. Now i will put my hopes only when I have concrete testimony. Why no feedback from patients or acquatancies?

Do not talk to me about what is legal or illegal. When got t, I found only incompetent doctors that steal money. I have T for loud noise and when I went to ER the day after, the doctor gave me antibiotics that I found out be ototoxic. Another just steal money and other even smile. They even are not able to make a standard protocol to treat these emegercy so they basically are allowed to give you evrything. So shut up

I have to admit your trolling is kinda fun and entertaining! Please, keep doing it!

 

[threefirefour]

Okay I'm back to shilling.

Let's see if it even works!!! She said that in the first trial two people said their tinnitus went away. However, after two weeks it got back! I think we have long way to go before even think about marketing this device.

That's actually impressive because it shows that there's a two-week washout period, and suggests that the device had a DIRECT impact on the disapperance

There's NO WAY I'm paying that unless I'm 100% sure it works by trying it before (paying for individual sessions of use of the machine or something like that).

Don't worry, like hearing aids, audiologists will most likely let you have a trial period.

Who says the device works?! The trial lasted only 4 weeks. That is not enough indication

Good question. The trial did last a very short time, hence why there's going to be a longer one. However, the fourth week, according to the paper, was the most productive week for tinnitus reduction.

 

[Sven]

My thread was moved as it was the same topic, apparently. Here's a short article in Swedish about it, anyway.

Swedish Article from "Dagens Medicin". Link to Abstract in English further down in the article:

https://www.dagensmedicin.se/artiklar/2018/01/05/elektriska-impulser-verkar-lindra-tinnitus/

 

[NoBigDeal]

I have one more question : will this new treatement be efficient on both tinnitus and hyperacousis ? (I have both)

 

[threefirefour]

I have one more question : will this new treatement be efficient on both tinnitus and hyperacousis ? (I have both)

well this treatment does use noise, but it's brain focused. So maybe the noise will help desensitize it, but other than that I don't think so.

 

[GregCA]

I have one more question : will this new treatement be efficient on both tinnitus and hyperacousis ? (I have both)

I don't think we have any indication of that yet.

 

[Contrast]

I have one more question : will this new treatement be efficient on both tinnitus and hyperacousis ? (I have both)

well this treatment does use noise, but it's brain focused. So maybe the noise will help desensitize it, but other than that I don't think so.

Now that I think about it the brain listening harder is what causes the hyper neuronal activity (tinnitus) so I'm just going to speculate that Susan Shores device reducing the hyper neuronal activity stops the brain from acting as an internal hearing aid thus lessening hyperacusis that is perceived as loud noise. However if this is true then it will also lower the quality of the individuals hearing because the brain will no longer be amplifying damaged frequencies.

 

[NoBigDeal]

I am surprised Susan Shore has not mentionned hyperacusis yet, because many people who have tinnitus have hyperacusis too.

 

[threefirefour]

If anyone is wondering how this will go with the FDA and FDA approval, here's a link on how the process will most likely go: https://premier-research.com/perspectivesmedical-devices-vs-drug-trials/

 

[threefirefour]

If anyone is wondering how this will go with the FDA and FDA approval, here's a link on how the process will most likely go: https://premier-research.com/perspectivesmedical-devices-vs-drug-trials/

Just to build off my past comment, Susan Shore is following this device model. We're entering the Pivotal stage.

 

[TheDanishGirl]

Just to build off my past comment, Susan Shore is following this device model. We're entering the Pivotal stage.

View attachment 15334

Why is there a Pivotal stage? seems useless....why not just jump to phase II?

 

[threefirefour]

Why is there a Pivotal stage? seems useless....why not just jump to phase II?

This reads downward, not like a comic. Signal timing is the one on the left.

Now the point of a pilot study before the pivotal is to avoid wasting people's time, so there's less people. The pilot study is the great filter (according to Wikipedia, only 18% of research passes this stage). We just passed that stage. This larger study is used for when we start getting serious about releasing research, and 75% of all devices that get to this stage pass it.

 

[TheDanishGirl]

This reads downward, not like a comic. Signal timing is the one on the left.

Now the point of a pilot study before the pivotal is to avoid wasting people's time, so there's less people. The pilot study is the great filter (according to Wikipedia, only 18% of research passes this stage). We just passed that stage. This larger study is used for when we start getting serious about releasing research, and 75% of all devices that get to this stage pass it.

Oh, I see that now, thanks!

 

[_Patrick_]

Does anyone know if they are looking for participants for the trial? And if yes, do we need to be in the US (I guess yes). I'm desperate to try this device asap...

 

[threefirefour]

Does anyone know if they are looking for participants for the trial? And if yes, do we need to be in the US (I guess yes). I'm desperate to try this device asap...

Yes they are. My guess is that they need 225 participants, and that you need to live in the US. Also, they'll tell you if you got in probably by late summer.

 

[tenface]

If I remember correctly, you need to live in the Michigan area for 6 months.

 

[Ambassador]

You can live anywhere you like but will need to visit the clinic as often as they need you.

 

[tenface]

Do you guys think that this would help tinnitus that has multiple tones or single tones only? I wonder because they say a sound is played, I don't know if it's matching the tinnitus or what the purpose of that sound is.

Also Susan Shore says "The brain, and specifically the region of the brainstem called the dorsal cochlear nucleus, is the root of tinnitus. When the main neurons in this region, called fusiform cells, become hyperactive and synchronize with one another, the phantom signal is transmitted into other centers where perception occurs."

We all know that tinnitus is caused from many different things. Is it confirmed that what's making the ringing is the same no matter what triggered the tinnitus?

One more question I have is lets say the trial finishes and is a success. What's going to happen then? Like do they have a manufacturer lined up to make these devices and sell commercially?

 

[threefirefour]

Do you guys think that this would help tinnitus that has multiple tones or single tones only? I wonder because they say a sound is played, I don't know if it's matching the tinnitus or what the purpose of that sound is.

Also Susan Shore says "The brain, and specifically the region of the brainstem called the dorsal cochlear nucleus, is the root of tinnitus. When the main neurons in this region, called fusiform cells, become hyperactive and synchronize with one another, the phantom signal is transmitted into other centers where perception occurs."

We all know that tinnitus is caused from many different things. Is it confirmed that what's making the ringing is the same no matter what triggered the tinnitus?

Good questions. I'm no expert but I've studied this a lot. Here's what I've caught.

1) I assume this works like ACRN. Which means it focuses on a dominant tone. So it probably attacks a tone at a time. But you can still work on them after the treatment of one tone. Just do tone 1 first, then tone 2, and so on.

2) Well no. Sometimes it doesn't involve the DCN. From what I understand, if it does, then it can be somasensory. This is why this device only works on people who can modulate their tinnitus with their body.

 

[GregCA]

Is it confirmed that what's making the ringing is the same no matter what triggered the tinnitus?

No, we already know there are various causes. Susan Shore is explicit about the type of Tinnitus that the device she's been working on targets.

 

[brummygirl]

So the tinnitus has to be able to be modulated by some form of movement.

But what about the original cause of the tinnitus? Do we know what types of triggering events affect the DCN?

Eg can we answer the questions 'Do All neck injury triggering events that cause somatosensory tinnitus cause problems in the DCN?' or 'Do All hearing damage cases of tinnitus that cause somatosensory tinnitus cause problems in the DCN?' etc etc

I think I'm maybe being a bit thick here so apologies if this has already been answered.

 

[tenface]

Thanks for the responses!

I'm a little confused though, because earlier in this thread it was mentioned that people with noise-induced tinnitus are likely good candidates for the device. But it seems like people with TMJ are the ones that can modulate their tinnitus. Or perhaps they're both considered somasensory, I'm not too familiar with this word but it seems linked to TMJ/jaw/neck issues in a quick google search.

Tinnitus gets louder if I yawn really wide, and I probably have tinnitus from hearing damage. Hope that counts as modulation.

 

[TheDanishGirl]

Thanks for the responses!

I'm a little confused though, because earlier in this thread it was mentioned that people with noise-induced tinnitus are likely good candidates for the device. But it seems like people with TMJ are the ones that can modulate their tinnitus. Or perhaps they're both considered somasensory, I'm not too familiar with this word but it seems linked to TMJ/jaw/neck issues in a quick google search.

Tinnitus gets louder if I yawn really wide, and I probably have tinnitus from hearing damage. Hope that counts as modulation.

Agreed. I am getting mixed messages and am very confused about whether this would work for me or not. I can't modulate my T at all by body/neck movement, only when clenching my jaw really hard can I make it change a bit.

 

[Samir]

I am getting mixed messages and am very confused about whether this would work for me or not.

I agree, I used to be able to modulate mine when yawning or clenching my teeth, but not so much lately as the tinnitus is more protruding. Transient somatic tinnitus?... I honestly don't know what category this puts me in. I do have some minor TMD problem, but frankly, I don't think TMD has anything to do with someone's ability to modulate their tinnitus.

 

[threefirefour]

Oh boy, here I go answering questions again.

So the tinnitus has to be able to be modulated by some form of movement.

But what about the original cause of the tinnitus? Do we know what types of triggering events affect the DCN?

Eg can we answer the questions 'Do All neck injury triggering events that cause somatosensory tinnitus cause problems in the DCN?' or 'Do All hearing damage cases of tinnitus that cause somatosensory tinnitus cause problems in the DCN?' etc etc

I think I'm maybe being a bit thick here so apologies if this has already been answered.

Yes. From what I understand, if it's somasensory and it involves modulating tinnitus via movement, then it involves the DCN. To answer your bottom questions, most likely yes and yes .

Thanks for the responses!

I'm a little confused though, because earlier in this thread it was mentioned that people with noise-induced tinnitus are likely good candidates for the device. But it seems like people with TMJ are the ones that can modulate their tinnitus. Or perhaps they're both considered somasensory, I'm not too familiar with this word but it seems linked to TMJ/jaw/neck issues in a quick google search.

Tinnitus gets louder if I yawn really wide, and I probably have tinnitus from hearing damage. Hope that counts as modulation.

Good questions. People with hearing loss that can modulate are somasensory, meaning the brain picks up somatic (body) movement. People with TMD tinnitus have somatic tinnitus, which is tinnitus being caused by the body. In your case, I'm pretty sure it counts.

Agreed. I am getting mixed messages and am very confused about whether this would work for me or not. I can't modulate my T at all by body/neck movement, only when clenching my jaw really hard can I make it change a bit.

You're legible, but try other things to see how somasensory your tinnitus is. Try thrusting your jaw outward, and pushing it back inward.

 

[Paulmanlike]

Oh boy, here I go answering questions again.


Yes. From what I understand, if it's somasensory and it involves modulating tinnitus via movement, then it involves the DCN. To answer your bottom questions, most likely yes and yes .

Good questions. People with hearing loss that can modulate are somasensory, meaning the brain picks up somatic (body) movement. People with TMD tinnitus have somatic tinnitus, which is tinnitus being caused by the body. In your case, I'm pretty sure it counts.

You're legible, but try other things to see how somasensory your tinnitus is. Try thrusting your jaw outward, and pushing it back inward.

Why are you pretending to be an expert?

 

[threefirefour]

Why are you pretending to be an expert?

I'm sorry, but didn't I say somewhere that I'm NOT an expert?

 

[Frizz]

Threefirefour acts like less of an expert than a number of people around here, honestly