New University of Michigan Tinnitus Discovery — Signal Timing

[SD7]

Exciting stuff, I know no one knows for sure but I wonder what Dr. Shore's device would do for reactive tinnitus/distortions.

I would be interested in hearing any theories, I really believe if I had my distortions fade I'd have a huge boost in morale.

 

[Mathew Gould]

Exciting stuff, I know no one knows for sure but I wonder what Dr. Shore's device would do for reactive tinnitus/distortions.

I would be interested in hearing any theories, I really believe if I had my distortions fade I'd have a huge boost in morale.

Yeah if I didn't have reactive tinnitus, I would be fine.

 

[Mentos]

Lenire improved my symptoms but wasn't the cure I'd hoped for. I had 7 or 8 sounds prior to the treatment. Now I have two. One of the two can still be bothersome at times but I'm about 50% habituated.

There's a group of posters on here that routinely label Lenire a failure. Well, that wasn't my experience, but I do understand the frustration. I think a more reasonable evaluation is that it helps 20-30% of people in a meaningful way.

I would hope that Susan Shore's device helps more people than Lenire due to the amount of time it's taken to develop and her approach to basic science.

I'm in the UK but will definitely fly over to the U.S to get it, if that's allowed.

Also wanted to add that, I had a little bit more improvement from Will Sedley's sound therapy trial and a little bit from supplements (Magnesium L-Threonate, Apigenin and L-Theanine). I tried these after Andrew Huberman suggested they can aid sleep.

My attitude now is to keep trying to chip away at my tinnitus, so if something can improve symptoms 10-20% then I take that and keep trying other things.

I have a pulsatile element as well but there are now a couple of guys in the UK from Addenbrooks that can diagnose and treat it now with stenting, so when my GP practice opens up properly again, I'll fight to get referred down there.

As Dirk de Ridder said, there are a few things that can help 20-30% of tinnitus patients but that's way too low to be prescribed in a clinical setting, but 20-30% chance is better than nothing.

I would personally disregard the view that nothing can be done to help tinnitus, in my experience that's not true. Anecdotal accounts aren't valid science but that doesn't mean there isn't some truth in them.

Anyway, I'm 100% going for this new device.

My approach is the same as yours @BigNick. Lenire improved my symptoms by around 20%, and Will Sedley sounds from the clinical trial further improved it, however, the latter only improves it temporarily. For instance I need to listen to it for half an hour, and another 2 hours to feel reduction in tinnitus. Is your experience with Will Sedley sounds similar? Do you still use it or did you experience permanent improvement after the trial period?

 

[BigNick]

My approach is the same as yours @BigNick. Lenire improved my symptoms by around 20%, and Will Sedley sounds from the clinical trial further improved it, however, the latter only improves it temporarily. For instance I need to listen to it for half an hour, and another 2 hours to feel reduction in tinnitus. Is your experience with Will Sedley sounds similar? Do you still use it or did you experience permanent improvement after the trial period?

Hi @Mentos, with Will Sedley's therapy, I've had an overall reduction. I have fewer bad days now.

Don't get me wrong, I still have tinnitus and hate it but I've been able to get some parts of my life back, making music for one.

Overall I'd say I'm not 'in hell' anymore, which I was for 2+ years.

Are you going for the Dr. Shore device?

 

[Mentos]

Hi @Mentos, with Will Sedley's therapy, I've had an overall reduction. I have fewer bad days now.

Don't get me wrong, I still have tinnitus and hate it but I've been able to get some parts of my life back, making music for one.

Overall I'd say I'm not 'in hell' anymore, which I was for 2+ years.

Are you going for the Dr. Shore device?

I'm glad to hear that. I'm also in a better place than 2-3 years ago, I attribute it to Lenire, tDCS and Will Sedley.

I do consider to give Dr. Shore device a try, but I would rather wait until it's available in Europe or online.

 

[Gunman]

Once again a new breakthrough is coming... "The Susan Shore device."

Read the fine print on this one. It only works on those with early onset unilateral tinnitus and those with mild to no hearing loss and those that can modulate their tinnitus by a jaw movement or head movement etc. Wow!

20 years on this?! Anyone on this forum speak up if this is you. What a joke.

 

[Padraigh Griffin]

Once again a new breakthrough is coming... "The Susan Shore device."

Read the fine print on this one. It only works on those with early onset unilateral tinnitus and those with mild to no hearing loss and those that can modulate their tinnitus by a jaw movement or head movement etc. Wow!

20 years on this?! Anyone on this forum speak up if this is you. What a joke.

Totally factually incorrect on everything bar the modulation by head and neck.

 

[DaveFromChicago]

To Gunman:

Many thanks for this report.

My only caveat is that if such a tiny portion of all tinnitus sufferers are therefore eligible for this, then how would it be possible to persuade any Venture Capitalist Consortium to make such an investment?

It's apparent that some entity has decided to provide the financing.

I cannot believe that with the particularity shown by investors in reviewing a new venture they would overlook this.

Also, any competent ENT Doctor or Audiologist will also make the same inquiries regarding function and eligibility, and probably within in the course of (let's say) a year at most only a few patients (or perhaps none) would be recommended for this.

Let's wait for far more details (which I assume have not yet been released) regarding the degree of success they have had in their Clinical Trials, the types of tinnitus that would respond well, etc.

I am going to remember your comments and see if Auricle will present evidence of a wider functioning and applicability.

 

[Gunman]

Look up the criteria for entering the trial for this device. It is factual. They are hopeful it can help others. I am out of hope and also impatient with all the hype behind this treatment. It appears also Lenire is a dud. It either works or it does not work.

You would think the military would be financing this device if it really worked. The VA should be handing out this device to the thousands of vets with tinnitus to see if it works. They spent 2 trillion $ in Afghanistan, why not a few million on this device? I have seen too many so-called breakthroughs hyped up and then nothing ever comes from it. I know I sound pessimistic, but this is what we don't need as a desperate community and if this and other devices or drugs that they say are safe and have some proven efficacy, then the FDA needs to allow us to see for ourselves if they work through passionate use designation.

 

[Gb3]

Look up the criteria for entering the trial for this device. It is factual. They are hopeful it can help others. I am out of hope and also impatient with all the hype behind this treatment. It appears also Lenire is a dud. It either works or it does not work.

You would think the military would be financing this device if it really worked. The VA should be handing out this device to the thousands of vets with tinnitus to see if it works. They spent 2 trillion $ in Afghanistan, why not a few million on this device? I have seen too many so-called breakthroughs hyped up and then nothing ever comes from it. I know I sound pessimistic, but this is what we don't need as a desperate community and if this and other devices or drugs that they say are safe and have some proven efficacy, then the FDA needs to allow us to see for ourselves if they work through passionate use designation.

I'm hopeful it will be helpful for more people too. That is a very small and specific group... it would benefit a minimal amount of people.

 

[BigNick]

Look up the criteria for entering the trial for this device. It is factual. They are hopeful it can help others. I am out of hope and also impatient with all the hype behind this treatment. It appears also Lenire is a dud. It either works or it does not work.

You would think the military would be financing this device if it really worked. The VA should be handing out this device to the thousands of vets with tinnitus to see if it works. They spent 2 trillion $ in Afghanistan, why not a few million on this device? I have seen too many so-called breakthroughs hyped up and then nothing ever comes from it. I know I sound pessimistic, but this is what we don't need as a desperate community and if this and other devices or drugs that they say are safe and have some proven efficacy, then the FDA needs to allow us to see for ourselves if they work through passionate use designation.

It may be of some help to some patients, that's about as much as we can hope for.

For me that's better than nothing.

 

[Mathew Gould]

Look up the criteria for entering the trial for this device. It is factual. They are hopeful it can help others. I am out of hope and also impatient with all the hype behind this treatment. It appears also Lenire is a dud. It either works or it does not work.

You would think the military would be financing this device if it really worked. The VA should be handing out this device to the thousands of vets with tinnitus to see if it works. They spent 2 trillion $ in Afghanistan, why not a few million on this device? I have seen too many so-called breakthroughs hyped up and then nothing ever comes from it. I know I sound pessimistic, but this is what we don't need as a desperate community and if this and other devices or drugs that they say are safe and have some proven efficacy, then the FDA needs to allow us to see for ourselves if they work through passionate use designation.

The gov't messes everything up.

 

[DaveFromChicago]

To @Gunman:

What if these Consortiums that will finance Lenire are aware that it is an unqualified "dud", (and how could they not given the disappointing testimonials posted on YouTube), but are also aware that no other effective treatment is available, as well as the state of extreme desperation tinnitus sufferers are in?

When I told a medical expert about how some recipients reported a very limited improvement, he replied that this was no different than the results of a pure placebo trial.

Would they be unscrupulous enough to launch an Advertising Campaign to promote the opposite with the intention of selling this in very profitable numbers before they were found out through word-of-mouth, internet reports, etc.?

What also concerns me about this is that their cost will be outrageously over $3,000.00.

Even though you can return it after a few weeks with a partial refund, your cost is still about $1,100.00 (and no American Health Insurance Carrier or Medicare will cover this.)

And to cover themselves, I am very concerned that they apparently warn the prospective client and the very outset that this may not work for him or her (so when the client derives no benefit, they can respond, "Well, we told you that might happen; we never led you down the primrose path to success".)

Wouldn't it be naive to assume that no investors would accept such a duplicitous strategy?

Look at that scandal involving artificial steel hips. That was touted as revolutionary until the parts ground against each other and steel shavings were found in patient's bloodstreams.

On 12/16 I tried the "Sound Modulation Therapy" Desyncra (at a cost of $5,269.00), and their Website was full of charts and grafts demonstrating it's substantial effectiveness.

I dutifully wore their headset for 36 weeks. Afterwards, they never even contacted me, so I notified them that it was as useless as shining a flashlight on your head would have been.

They said they were sorry, but were very noncommittal (and like SoundCure, they are no longer in business.)

Are we really supposed to believe that this will be the case with the Auricle (Dr. Shore) device?

The fact that the VA has not ordered thousands of these may, as Matthew Gould mentioned, be far more about the infamous ineptitude of the VA and the Government in general than about the device.

Your point is very well taken about how it is so wrong not to grant us immediate "passionate use designation."

Let's just wait and see; I have faith in my ENT Doctor's integrity and honesty, and I will await his opinion.

 

[BigNick]

Neuromod received investment from at least one wealthy businessman who himself is a tinnitus sufferer.

I'm optimistic about Dr. Shore's device based on her commitment to basic science and the 20 years she's been working on it.

The naysayers will continue to frown and shake their heads, but as someone who's undergone bi-modal stimulation for tinnitus and went from multiple tones down to two I'd keep an open mind. Don't be put off by the cynical few.

 

[F-u-T]

Shore's device is also fundamentally different than Lenire.

Shore's device is based on calming the excited tinnitus causing neurons in an effort to reduce or eliminate tinnitus.

Lenire is based on exciting different neurons than the tinnitus causing ones in an effort to cause habituation.

I have higher confidence in Shore over Lenire based on the approaches alone.

 

[AfroSnowman]

Let's just wait and see; I have faith in my ENT Doctor's integrity and honesty, and I will await his opinion.

Her study, double blinded, with control groups, based on fundamental science and research, we know that this is different than the Lenire studies (no control, vague improvements) If the results show it works then it works, if the results show it doesn't then it doesn't, but I think in this case it is reasonable to accept her study's results as being legitimate and trustworthy.

 

[Fightthearmy]

Neuromod claimed Lenire cured 1 patient that had no hearing loss. If the other 2 people who these devices cured had no hearing loss, that may say something about neuromodulation.

One patient lol. Post hoc ergo propter hoc. Cum hoc ergo propter hoc etc...

"Almost market ready" - f*cking lovely news!

Boilerplate statements are not news.

 

[Joeseph Stope]

It might be an indicator of the pressure out there to come up with something that actually works.

Well we are all human, ain't we?

 

[Mathew Gould]

Her study, double blinded, with control groups, based on fundamental science and research, we know that this is different than the Lenire studies (no control, vague improvements) If the results show it works then it works, if the results show it doesn't then it doesn't, but I think in this case it is reasonable to accept her study's results as being legitimate and trustworthy.

When can we expect the Shore device to be available to the average person? And how much will it cost and is it for home use or do you have to go to a clinic?

 

[Gb3]

When can we expect the Shore device to be available to the average person? And how much will it cost and is it for home use or do you have to go to a clinic?

Probably some time next year. I'm sure you will need to go a clinic initially but who knows after that.

 

[F-u-T]

When can we expect the Shore device to be available to the average person? And how much will it cost and is it for home use or do you have to go to a clinic?

I imagine pricing will be similar to Lenire. $2-$3K to purchase the device. It should be for home use after getting set up at the clinic.

 

[Gb3]

I imagine pricing will be similar to Lenire. $2-$3K to purchase the device. It should be for home use after getting set up at the clinic.

How do you know?

 

[Rb86]

as someone who's undergone bi-modal stimulation for tinnitus and went from multiple tones down to two I'd keep an open mind.

Did it make those 2 quieter as well, or no?

 

[AfroSnowman]

Probably some time next year. I'm sure you will need to go a clinic initially but who knows after that.

Fingers crossed, but boy you have to respect the full blackout her study has. I mean we haven't heard a whisper, a hint, an anonymous report, an interview. Nothing. I take it to be a good sign of their professionalism.

 

[BigNick]

Did it make those 2 quieter as well, or no?

I have one sound that's very stubborn that Lenire didn't touch unfortunately.

The other sound was kinda buried underneath everything else and what I was left with. Lenire didn't subsequently reduce it further.

In my case the overall outcome was positive but, seeing as I have one sound it did nothing to, I've also experienced it not working, if that makes sense.

I have faith in the technology / science but it requires improvement, hopefully Dr Shore's device comes through for more patients.

 

[TomBradyGOAT]

It might be an indicator of the pressure out there to come up with something that actually works.

Well we are all human, ain't we?

No. I am one of the mice they gave tinnitus and tried AM-101 to fix it. It didn't help the tinnitus but now I know English, American Football, how to type and surf the internet. #MiceHateTinnitusAlso

 

[TomBradyGOAT]

I have tinnitus sound coming from my head. Possibly from benzos. I would like to know if the one ear bud thing matters and if Dr. Shore thinks her device would help.

Also someone said that the device is targeting the neurons that create the tinnitus. Guessing they are talking about fusiform cells that go nuts. Dr. Shore has spoken about them going crazy from neck/jaw nerves. Then someone said that one ear bud would be so one ear could be targeted at a time. I mean do we have a set of excitable cells in my brain that are for my left ear and one for my right ear? If so, why with central head tinnitus I can still manipulate it with jaw movement and so on? Is it because benzo withdrawal make both sets of cells for each ear go crazy? I believe people have reported head tinnitus from loud noises.

 

[DaveFromChicago]

I ran across the posting "Dr. Susan E. Shore PhD. / House Committee on Veterans Affairs".

This includes the content of her address before this House Committee.

It is certainly worth perusing.

 

[Gb3]

I have tinnitus sound coming from my head. Possibly from benzos. I would like to know if the one ear bud thing matters and if Dr. Shore thinks her device would help.

Also someone said that the device is targeting the neurons that create the tinnitus. Guessing they are talking about fusiform cells that go nuts. Dr. Shore has spoken about them going crazy from neck/jaw nerves. Then someone said that one ear bud would be so one ear could be targeted at a time. I mean do we have a set of excitable cells in my brain that are for my left ear and one for my right ear? If so, why with central head tinnitus I can still manipulate it with jaw movement and so on? Is it because benzo withdrawal make both sets of cells for each ear go crazy? I believe people have reported head tinnitus from loud noises.

If it's from benzos, it will go away.

 

[GlennS]

Once again a new breakthrough is coming... "The Susan Shore device."

Read the fine print on this one. It only works on those with early onset unilateral tinnitus and those with mild to no hearing loss and those that can modulate their tinnitus by a jaw movement or head movement etc. Wow!

20 years on this?! Anyone on this forum speak up if this is you. What a joke.

If those are the caveats then it's a waste of time for most of us, I'm afraid. I just can't help but shake my head over how limited Shore's ambition/scope is with her treatment.