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Noise-Induced Tinnitus — 5 Gigs Since Spike — Not Getting Worse

Are you sure about this?

Absolutely. It reads on your Avatar cause of tinnitus unknown? Something usually causes the onset of tinnitus and the most common cause is exposure to loud noise/sounds. If you were a frequent user of headphones or go to clubs or concerts where loud music is played, then your tinnitus is probably "Noise induced". Therefore, I advise you to heed the warnings in my post.

In my opinion the external sound would have at stupendously high dBSPL to achieve something like this. I agree that bone conduction could potentially cause ear damage if you pressed a vibrating device directly to your skull, but air sound waves would require extremely high energy to be able to vibrate your bones so much to cause any damage.

You are correct when saying in your opinion. If you want to stick with that and believe nothing in what I have said above or in any of my posts about Noise induced tinnitus, then go right ahead and I wish you well. Whenever you have the time please peruse some of the many posts in this forum from members that have noise induced tinnitus. Some have successfully habituated to their tinnitus and thinking all was well, returned to the old life of going to clubs and concerts using earplugs - there is nothing wrong with this however, with noise induced tinnitus one has to apply caution and be careful of loud sounds even when wearing earplugs at these venues. Many have found their tinnitus spiked or increased to a new higher and permanent level. The facts are there written by people that actually have tinnitus and not by medical professionals that know about the anatomy of the ear but have no long-term experience of Noise induced Tinnitus. I am talking about tinnitus that was originally caused by exposure to loud noise not other types of tinnitus, which was caused by an underlying medical problem within the auditory system or elsewhere in the body.

If a person with noise induced tinnitus uses headphones even at low volume, they risk their tinnitus becoming worse. Again, peruse some of the many posts in this forum from disgruntled members that regret listening to Audiologists and ENT doctors, who tell them: using headphones is fine as long as the volume is kept low. Some people with NIT are not affected by headphones use but many are.

The medical professionals I have mentioned are not tinnitus experts. ENT doctors do not treat tinnitus, they treat underlying medical problems that cause it. Either medically or surgically and I believe most do this to the best of their ability and I respect that. However, tinnitus specialists they are not. If you want good constructive advice about noise induced tinnitus, then seek help from people that have experience with it.

I wish you well.
Michael
 
F*ck you tinnitus, you're not going to change who I am."

I just hope fellow musicians won't give up so easily and keep going so long as it doesn't get worse for you.
Tinnitus knows no upper limits.
It might just change 'who you are.'
Best of luck with it brother.
Dave x
Jazzer
 
Again, everybody is different... I've read numerous articles from musicians who continued playing with no ill-effects after the onset of noise induced tinnitus, only after they began to wear proper ear protection and made changes on stage etc. Which I am doing. I would also add that the sound front of stage would be a lot louder than on stage.

I hope to return to this forum a year from now, with my tinnitus still at the same level, having completed a few tours, hundreds of gigs & a record deal lol. I have only respect for people on this forum, I never meant to offend. I was merely pointing out the people who insist musicians should just quit... instead of maybe wording it differently, "fair play to you for wanting to continue but you should be cautious..." or whatever.
 
@Michael Leigh
Please don't understand me wrong. I completely agree that anyone (with tinnitus or without) should be careful with noise exposure. Also I have read many of your posts and I don't want to be even a slightest bit disrespectful to you since I believe that you are an exemplary member of this community.

All I was questioning here was the actual physics. It may be also true that the earplugs don't have a flat filtering and when wearing them while moving you also affect the frequency response of the whole plug-ear "system". So the sound level might seem safe, but it is may not be safe at a certain frequency.

If bone conduction could cause damage in this way, it would kind of render ear protection useless.

So even with facts provided by members who had a spike/increase while after visiting a loud venue with earplugs it is in my opinion impossible to draw the conclusion that this was due to bone conduction damage.

But I completely agree that even when wearing ear protection you are at risk when exposing yourself to an environment with unsafe sound levels, because the ear protection itself might fail (fall out of your ear, off your head, not properly worn,...)
 
Hi Michael,

How loud would a sound have to be to pass through ear plugs and cause a spike? This is my worst fear (assuming I'm able to be in the mood to ever socialize again)

@Yuuls

HI Yuuls,

I have read a few of your previous posts including your first to the forum in order to get some background information about your tinnitus before responding to you. On your Avatar it reads cause of tinnitus unknown? I believe the onset of your tinnitus is the result of prolong use of headphones and going to concerts where loud music is played.

You have mentioned using noise cancelling headphones a lot and frequently attending concerts. These activities are often the cause of tinnitus. I know you have been going through a difficult time with this condition for 3 months. I am also aware you have been to ENT and are taking medication to help with moods/stress/anxiety which tinnitus can cause. Therefore I advise you to stick with it.

If I am correct and your tinnitus is noise induced then I advise you not to use your headphones even at low volume. I also advise you to keep away (if possible) from going to concerts clubs for just a while to give your ears a rest. Information in your posts mention you are also experiencing muffled hearing and nasal problems which could indicate the tinnitus might be something to do with ETD ( Eustachian tube infection or disfunction) or something else within your auditory system. Therefore, your ENT doctor is the best person to treat you if the cause of the tinnitus is related to an underlying medical problem.

However, if as I suspect your tinnitus is Noise induced then you should be referred to an Audiologist and someone that specifically treats Tinnitus and Hyperacusis caused by exposure to loud noise. Various treatments are available including counselling. You are still in the early stages of tinnitus and therefore, I think some counselling with an Audiologist that knows about noise induced tinnitus will be able to help you. Please click on the links below and read all the information in my articles. Take your time and don't rush or skim through the information.

Your question on how loud sound needs to be to pass through earplugs? I have no idea to be honest. All I know if external sounds at night clubs or concerts are too loud the sound doesn't necessarily have to pass through the earplugs, as it can pass through the head/skull and be transferred to the inner ear by Bone conduction. I am not saying a person with Noise induced tinnitus shouldn't go out and enjoy themselves at a club, but they need to be careful, and not think by wearing earplugs they are safe. This is not always true.

As I have said: If your tinnitus is noise induced as I suspect. Then I advise you not to use headphones even at low volume -preferably never again but it's your choice. Regarding clubs and concerts, my advice is to keep away from them for a while to give your ears a rest.

All the best
Michael

https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/new-to-tinnitus-what-to-do.12558/
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/tinnitus-a-personal-view.18668/
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/hyperacusis-as-i-see-it.19174/
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/acquiring-a-positive-mindset.23969/
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/tinnitus-and-the-negative-mindset.23705/
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/the-habituation-process.20767/
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/is-positivity-important.23150/
 
For any musicians who don't have custom moulded ear plugs with attenuation filters. Get them now. €200 well spent. They completely block out the harsh frequencies of cymbals and snare drums. Here's a picture of mine...
 

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All I was questioning here was the actual physics. It may be also true that the earplugs don't have a flat filtering and when wearing them while moving you also affect the frequency response of the whole plug-ear "system". So the sound level might seem safe, but it is may not be safe at a certain frequency.

Thank you for your kind words. If I thought you were being disrespectful I wouldn't have bothered replying to your post at length. I would have been very brief and direct as I do with people that have no manners. I don't know everything about noise induced tinnitus but I do have experience with it. Therefore, when anyone chooses to quote my post or ask a question which I encourage; I want them to treat me with curtesy and respect. Providing they do this I haven't got a problem but disrespect and impertinence will not be tolerated.

Regarding physics and science all this is fine in theory and they do have their place in understanding tinnitus to a point. However, and I do not mean to be condescending or disrespectful towards you in an way. You are fairly new to tinnitus. With time you will learn physics and science and people that write reports and reams of data about tinnitus has very little to do with the way this condition affects a person's mental and emotional wellbeing. Most of these people that write reports, information and data about tinnitus have never experienced it and if they have, it is probably quite mild and nothing like what many members in this forum endure.

All the best
Michael
 
Tinnitus knows no upper limits.
It might just change 'who you are.'
Best of luck with it brother.
Dave x
Jazzer
Thank you @Jazzer, I'm also Dave by the way :). I'm hoping the way things are going positively for me at the moment that my tinnitus will not get worse. I play in a ska band, and there was always a sax, a trumpet and a trombone behind me... needless to say we've changed the stage layout now haha. With my new custom moulded ear plugs I feel protected, and maybe there's a placebo affect with that also, which is keeping my anxiety at bay. Much respect to you Dave, I can't imagine what it was like having to stop gigging. Hopefully we'll get a cure soon and you'll be back on stage!
 
Again, everybody is different... I've read numerous articles from musicians who continued playing with no ill-effects after the onset of noise induced tinnitus, only after they began to wear proper ear protection and made changes on stage etc. Which I am doing. I would also add that the sound front of stage would be a lot louder than on stage

Interesting.

This post is for people that have noise induced tinnitus. Some of you may be musicians others might not but wish to go to clubs or concerts where loud music is played. Please be advised loud music and noise induced tinnitus do not go well together. It is true we are all different however, one thing is for sure: When tinnitus becomes severe and this is level of intensity is sustained, everybody will find it debilitating and they will have to stop subjecting their auditory system to loud sound/noise.

I have read many posts in this forum and others, by people saying: they know musicians that have "noise induced tinnitus" and able to carry on playing regardless and don't let the tinnitus stop them from enjoying and playing their music. There is one reason for this. Their tinnitus has not reached the point/level where it has become debilitating and this level is sustained, thus preventing them from continuing to play their music. Sadly, people like @Jazzer know what I am talking about. This blasé nonchalant, couldn't care less attitude towards loud sound and tinnitus is foolhardy. Those that are willing to listen, please be careful of loud sound and do not think earplugs will prevent your tinnitus from getting worse. Indeed, they help but as I have previously said, if external sound is loud enough it will pass through the head and transfer to the inner ear by bone conduction.

To understand what I believe to be severe debilitating tinnitus, please read the post below.

I wish you well.
Michael


What is severe debilitating tinnitus?


People that are new to tinnitus have often told me, they didn't realize it was such a common condition. When discussing it with a friend or family member the reply is: "I just ignore it" "Mine only bothers me at night once asleep I'm fine". Another might say: "It plays a tune, it was strange at first but I'm used to it now". And so the story goes on. These comments can make a person think, what is wrong with me, why can't I just ignore it and get along with my life?

The truth of the matter is this: Tinnitus is a very common condition and comes in many forms and intensities and no two people experience it the same. Fortunately, most people are able to live with it or rather "habituate" and carry on doing all the things that they want to, without it impacting too much on their life. I have covered habituation and the habituation process, in many of my posts and articles that can be found on my started threads.

Although most people eventually habituate to tinnitus naturally or with the help of medication, counselling and sound therapy. There is darker and more sinister side to tinnitus, that is not often talked about but I believe is relevant and should be addressed, especially if one wants to carry on with their life. Under these circumstances, it is absolutely vital that a person seeks the best help that is available to them.

What is severe debilitating tinnitus and what are the best ways of treating it?

I have read posts where people say: "My tinnitus is severe and I'm still able to work". "My friend has ragging tinnitus, plays in a band and isn't affected by it". Some famous musicians say "I hear tinnitus over everything I'm still able to play loud music".

The answer by those mentioned above to people that have difficulty coping, managing and working with tinnitus because they find it debilitating, it's all about mind over matter. If you don't allow tinnitus to get the better of you then you can accomplish anything that you want to do.

In reply to those people I want to say that you are talking absolute rubbish. You are able to continue playing loud music in your band or able work and carrying on doing all the things that you want to do because, your tinnitus has not reached a critical level of intensity yet. I hope it doesn't because if it ever does, then you will come to know and realize the full wrath of what tinnitus able to unleash someone. Your tinnitus may indeed be intrusive and noticeable over many things. However, I am here to tell you it is not severely debilitating.

When tinnitus reaches a severe level of intensity and this is sustained, it becomes seriously debilitating and affects a person's mental and emotional wellbeing profoundly. The affected person, will often be under immense pressure trying to cope with not one but often a cacophony of noises in their head and ears. Under these circumstances. It can be very difficult to do some of the most simple every day tasks. Medication in form of antidepressant, benzodiazepine such as clonazepam have often proven to be helpful. So is counselling with a Hearing Therapist or Audiologist, trained in the treatment and management of tinnitus. Contrary to what some people believe, medications do not necessarily make tinnitus worse.

It is reading posts and listening to people that don't know better who say, antidepressants and benzos make tinnitus worse. These people often have low to moderate tinnitus and are able to manage it quite well, even if its occasionally severe they are not overly troubled by it. Therefore, they have no need to find help taking medication, having counselling or using sound therapy for treatment.

Not seeking professional medical help can result in a person spiralling down into deep depression and having suicidal thoughts due to the immense distress they are put under by intrusive tinnitus. It can sometimes result in a person having to be admitted into hospital psychiatric unit.

Please seek medical help if you are having difficulty coping with tinnitus.
 
However, I am here to tell you it is not severely debilitating.
Hi Michael, appreciate your post. I feel so sorry for people who cannot cope with their tinnitus. I'm just wondering though, you say people who are able to continue doing what they love even with their level of tinnitus don't have severe debilitating tinnitus. Is it possible that the levels are the same for 2 people but 1 person is just able to handle it or cope with it better? This is a genuine question that might not be answered easily. I mean I'm able to hear my 3 different sounds over the shower, driving, working... IF I allow myself to focus on it or let the anxiety brought on by it's existence get the better of me. I'm just wondering could it be that people just react to it in different ways, like pain threshold... I have lots of tattoos for example but know that not everyone could handle the pain of getting one. Could it be the same with tinnitus? I hope I'm not coming across as ignorant... just genuinely curious. The psychology of it is very interesting.
 
Thank you @Jazzer, I'm also Dave by the way :). I'm hoping the way things are going positively for me at the moment that my tinnitus will not get worse. I play in a ska band, and there was always a sax, a trumpet and a trombone behind me... needless to say we've changed the stage layout now haha. With my new custom moulded ear plugs I feel protected, and maybe there's a placebo affect with that also, which is keeping my anxiety at bay. Much respect to you Dave, I can't imagine what it was like having to stop gigging. Hopefully we'll get a cure soon and you'll be back on stage!
Good to know you brother - a fellow musician.
Very best of luck,
Dave x
 
Hi Michael, appreciate your post. I feel so sorry for people who cannot cope with their tinnitus. I'm just wondering though, you say people who are able to continue doing what they love even with their level of tinnitus don't have severe debilitating tinnitus. Is it possible that the levels are the same for 2 people but 1 person is just able to handle it or cope with it better? This is a genuine question that might not be answered easily. I mean I'm able to hear my 3 different sounds over the shower, driving, working... IF I allow myself to focus on it or let the anxiety brought on by it's existence get the better of me. I'm just wondering could it be that people just react to it in different ways, like pain threshold... I have lots of tattoos for example but know that not everyone could handle the pain of getting one. Could it be the same with tinnitus? I hope I'm not coming across as ignorant... just genuinely curious. The psychology of it is very interesting.


HI @Dhaych

You have asked an interesting question and raised some interesting points. Tinnitus comes in many forms and intensities and no two people will ever experience it the same. If a person also has oversensitivity to sound (hyperacusis) it can complicate things further.

I stand by what I have said and what you have quoted on me saying: People who are able to continue doing what they love even when their level of tinnitus might be intrusive and able to hear it over many things - in your case over the shower, do not have debilitating tinnitus. No, they don't in my opinion. The reason being their Mindset, Positivity, and determination, is strong enough to override the high levels of tinnitus they are experiencing and therefore they are not being adversely affected. All this is good. However, please be aware every person including you has limitations. If you are not careful and throw caution to the wind and believe that overly loud sounds will not affect you to the point where you will be unable to play your music - and believe it's all mind over matter. I am advising you to please try and change this way of thinking.

I don't want you to experience what I have described in my post above. Tinnitus can be ruthless and very unforgiving when it becomes severe due to exposure to loud sounds, so please be careful. A good friend of mine that has had tinnitus for many years and someone I regard as a veteran to noise induced tinnitus, has had to stop doing gym workouts and other forms of activity due to his tinnitus reaching very severe levels. He was able to hear his tinnitus over many things but was able to push through this and carry on. However, it has recently started to get worse and has reached a point where he now finds it unbearable. Even though he has been a veteran for many years - this is what I am talking about, we all have our limitations. I know my limitations and know the depths that tinnitus can take me to when it reaches severe levels. It took me 4 years to habituate for the second time. I have been to hell and back and never want to go there again.

Michael
 
I respect that information @Michael Leigh, thanks. I'm hoping my new awareness and steps I've taken when playing will hold strong, if not, and I feel any slight adjustment in level, I'm smart enough to stop. I have 3 kids who would all prefer a Dad who's focused on them rather than the sounds in my head :)
 
I'd like to share a fascinating piece of information about the dangers of bone conduction I've recently discovered.

One of the noisiest places on Earth is the flight deck of an aircraft carrier, where personnel are literally within metres of jet engines going at full blast. The noise level often reaches 150dB (roughly equivalent to a shotgun being fired - CONSTANTLY). The skull attenuates roughly 40dB, so no matter what they put in and over their ears, they won't be able to decrease the noise level more than that. 110dB will still reach the inner ear via bone conduction, and will trash hearing within minutes.

So they had to come up with a special helmet which also covers the skull itself with insulation material. Research found that covering up the face isn't necessary, because the face apparently has better sound insulation than the skull. :)

https://acoustics.org/pressroom/httpdocs/162nd/Dietz_3pNS3.html

The takeaway is: bone conduction in noisy environments is a very real danger, and earplugs/earmuffs by themselves are often insufficient.

Now, does anyone have U.S. Navy friends from whom I could buy one of these special helmets? :)
 
I'd like to share a fascinating piece of information about the dangers of bone conduction I've recently discovered.

One of the noisiest places on Earth is the flight deck of an aircraft carrier, where personnel are literally within metres of jet engines going at full blast. The noise level often reaches 150dB (roughly equivalent to a shotgun being fired - CONSTANTLY). The skull attenuates roughly 40dB, so no matter what they put in and over their ears, they won't be able to decrease the noise level more than that. 110dB will still reach the inner ear via bone conduction, and will trash hearing within minutes.

So they had to come up with a special helmet which also covers the skull itself with insulation material. Research found that covering up the face isn't necessary, because the face apparently has better sound insulation than the skull. :)

https://acoustics.org/pressroom/httpdocs/162nd/Dietz_3pNS3.html

The takeaway is: bone conduction in noisy environments is a very real danger, and earplugs/earmuffs by themselves are often insufficient.

Now, does anyone have U.S. Navy friends from whom I could buy one of these special helmets? :)
That is interesting @hans799, good thing I'm not on an aircraft carrier lol. Measuring our last gig, the onstage volume reached a max of 93 dB so I'm hoping with my moulded ear plugs with -25 dB reduction will keep me going.
 
Are you sure about this? In my opinion the external sound would have at stupendously high dBSPL to achieve something like this. I agree that bone conduction could potentially cause ear damage if you pressed a vibrating device directly to your skull, but air sound waves would require extremely high energy to be able to vibrate your bones so much to cause any damage.

https://www.audiologyonline.com/ask-the-experts/hearing-loss-through-bone-conduction-522

Check this out, and for additional context consider he also once said there was a substantive risk of auditory damage 'via the bone conduction' if you go the cinema. Ear plugs won't help!
 
For the record, other musicians, such as Eric Clapton, and Pete Townsend continued despite T and now both of them are close to deaf as far as I understand.

Also, I hope the standard of success with T/H is that it is actually getting better, and not merely not getting worse.
 
I respect that information @Michael Leigh, thanks. I'm hoping my new awareness and steps I've taken when playing will hold strong, if not, and I feel any slight adjustment in level, I'm smart enough to stop. I have 3 kids who would all prefer a Dad who's focused on them rather than the sounds in my head :)

HI @Dhaych

You might find the post below helpful as I and other people have in this forum. It is from a member who is an Audio Engineer, Bill weir



""Hi!
I'm an audio engineer and now have T. I hate to have to tell you this but there are no earplugs that can protect you in the typical nightclub environment. The best protection will only lower the Sound Pressure Level (SPL) by about 30 db. Assuming the sound is typical, it's going to hover around 105 db A when measured using long term averaging, slow response on a meter. This means there will be peaks well in excess of 120 db"A" weighted. Weighting the scales of measurement on the sound meter gives more accurate readings. "A" weighting approximates what your eardrum is sensitive to... meaning sound with the deep bass filtered out. "C" weighting includes the bass and is generally 15-30 db higher than an "A" reading. So, 105 db A (typical nightclub or major concert translates into 130 db "C" or more including the bass. How long do people generally stay in the average nightclub? Too long! 4 hour stay is average.

A concert is generally 2.5 hours. Many people will stay in the club all night until they are "OK" to drive and be back in public LMAO. The drugs people do screws up their judgement and desensitizes them to physical sensation and people damage themselves without realizing it. Sound levels pretty much everywhere are TOO loud IMO. Instead of the industry standard 105 db A (Live Nation SPL cap) I like to keep it at 96-98 for people. Why so loud? Above 96 db the fight or flight response begins to kick in and you get that rush of excitement you get at a concert. It's a lot of what people pay for. Deep bass goes in through bone transconductance. You don't "hear" it with your eardrum you feel it This is how it is possible to have bass with headphones. If this transconductance did not occur, the long wavelengths that make bass would not have enough distance to unfold when using headphones. So, earplugs DO NOT protect you from low frequency damage. Not even a little bit.

So, on the one hand, you're going to have 100db + peaks getting through your earplugs in the range above 100 Hz (low note on a 4 string bass guitar is 41.7 Hz) and the bass below will pressurize your cochlea like nothing is even there, straight through the bone. Some of the subwoofer arrays I have installed in places must have security grating around them to keep people from getting within ten feet of the subwoofer array because the array produces well over 150 db down at 35Hz at 1 meter distance and would make them nauseous or in some extreme cases even worse than that.
I can say this definitively from direct personal and professional experience. If you value your hearing and do not want your tinnitus to increase, avoid these places or if you must go limit your exposure considerably.
 
https://www.audiologyonline.com/ask-the-experts/hearing-loss-through-bone-conduction-522

Check this out, and for additional context consider he also once said there was a substantive risk of auditory damage 'via the bone conduction' if you go the cinema. Ear plugs won't help!

PostScript: I'm not trying to be strident here but do think this is an extraordinary remarkable and unsubstantiated claim. Paired with this I don't understand the recommendation of consulting with a "audiologist with a background in noise induced tinnitus" since they are almost all going to universally write-off your points of caution.
 
In my opinion the external sound would have at stupendously high dBSPL to achieve something like this.
My tinnitus faded a lot suddenly almost 3 years ago. I had total remission of some trebly sounds in my head. It became only audible in quiet rooms.

Now it's back in full force cause I'm stupid. Some ENT told me ear plugs are safe. Wrong! Tinnitus is with me again.
While I agree some people here go overboard with hearing protection, this increase in noise sensitivity after wearing hearing protection is only a temporary one. It is not the same thing as the brain turning up the auditory gain when there is a permanent loss in hearing.

With regards to noise exposure that isn't dangerous to most people, I developed a new tone in my right ear after a noise exposure at work back in October. I spent about half an hour in an area that I would estimate was at most 90db, but it was probably less than that. I had deeply inserted large foam earplugs at the time, but apparently that was not enough protection. That tone has not gone away, and it's not some psychosomatic spike. Spikes in volume are somewhat relative in my opinion, they can be attributed to stress, lack of sleep, noise exposure, diet, etc., but completely new tones that do not go away are something different.

What is safe for you may not be safe for me. And the fact is there has been no good study done assessing the vulnerability of already damaged auditory systems. The gold standard for dangerous noise levels is based on old data from OSHA where they looked for permanent threshold shifts of 10db or more at 2000, 3000, or 4000 Hz. As we know now, you can have fairly significant auditory damage without having a permanent threshold shift in those three ranges. There is also a lot of industry push-back when OSHA tries to make safety guidelines more strict (I haven't seen this with noise levels, but I have seen it with chemical safety guidelines). Moreover, it's very likely that some people are more genetically predisposed to hearing damage than others.

What I'm getting at here is I agree with you that some people really do go overboard with hearing protection, and obsessing about noise is not healthy, but it irritates me when people adopt this attitude of "well it works for me therefore it must work for you" or "it's safe for me therefore it's safe for you". No one can say that.
I can't take it anymore. I don't want to die but at this stage the urge to stop suffering is stronger. Ps. To all members in this forum advising against so called "overprotection". I never exposed myself to sounds even remotely considered as being potentially harmful to healthy people but because of your advice I was exposed to sounds uncomfortable for me which eventually proved to be damaging.

At initial stages i was very weary about sound levels around me and used protection everytime I felt uncomfortable.

Only by reading TRT literature or some posts here I started to expose my self to sounds loud but never louder than 75-80 dB.

Whenever I was feeling like something is not right I was stupid enough to believe you these changes were part of "the natural process of healing".

Is this your healing? Every time you feel like giving this sort of advice have my case in mind.
Oh go you'll be fine they said. Wear earplugs they said.

So I went to the event with ear plugs. Was there for only a few minutes. Big mistake. Gave me low drone/hum that's worst than the high pitch hiss/eeeee, tea kettle sounds. Never went away. sigh
3 1/2 years ago.

Everyone is different. Every situation is different.
You have to make a decision and live with it.
 
I respect that information @Michael Leigh, thanks. I'm hoping my new awareness and steps I've taken when playing will hold strong, if not, and I feel any slight adjustment in level, I'm smart enough to stop. I have 3 kids who would all prefer a Dad who's focused on them rather than the sounds in my head :)

It took me 4 years to habituate for the second time. I have been to hell and back and never want to go there again.

For the past 5 years I did not let (noise-related) tinnitus change what I did for a living at all. Foolishly. I used a earbud for cell phone calls daily. Used earbuds on airplanes to drowned out the noise of the plane. Etc. I was in a habituated state where it didn't seem like it was worsening. Then this month I had some allergies that caused ear congestion and some temporary conductive hear loss that caused me to reevaluate my tinnitus if its worse. I am worried it has worsened and now I'm praying it's only a temporary spike that will go away. Needless to say, I'm no longer habituated.

@Dhaych, my worry here is that in the state of habituation you may not notice small increases in tinnitus until one day you do. I plan to protect myself going forward. I agree a lot with Michael here based on my on experience. I've been in a bad place the past 3 weeks (to hell and trying to inch my way back). I'm not trying to discourage you, but I have 3 small kids too. I've been panicked that T could cause me to miss out on their journey. These kids are way more important than any enjoyment that I've gotten from my work. Not trying to add any guilt, just what's been racing through my mind the past 3 weeks.

@Michael Leigh, would love to hear if you agree about not noticing small increases while habituated.
 
You might find the post below helpful as I and other people have in this forum. It is from a member who is an Audio Engineer, Bill weir...

120+ dBSPL at ear does kind of classify as stupendously loud. And it is definitely true that low frequencies will not just vibrate your ears but the whole lot of you together with your earplugs :) Also as I said before the 20-30dB earplugs will not have same attenuation over the whole audio spectrum.

I never went to such venues so I had no idea that it gets this loud. But working in broadcast and studio industry as an engineer I can appreciate the measurements. Thanks a lot for reposting this info!

So the bottom line is that ear protection helps, but it all boils down to what kind of place/event/venue you go since at places with such measurements standard earplugs are not enough and you might just need an USN Aircraft Carrier Helmet to keep you safe (or just find a quieter place)
 
25 dB NRR earplugs do not reduce sound by 25 dB. They reduce it by 9 dB.

The formula is 25 dB subtract 7 = 18. Then divide 18 by 2 = 9 dB reduction.

UK uses SNR which adds 6 dB. So it's -13 divided by 2 = dB reduction.
NA uses NRR -7 divided by 2 = dB reduction.
 
Once you are suffering with serious tinnitus, do not take it to the next level.

No action can ever be undone.
 
Bottom line with me is;
  • I'm willing to take that chance because the band/our music is too important to me.
  • IF I feel an increase I WILL STOP.
  • I have a strong mental barrier over my tinnitus at the moment, which is moderate to severe. I can sleep with it raging, i find the noise soothing sometimes. That will hold to me if it gets worse, I know I can work with it.
  • I've been in bands since I was 15, I'm 40 in March - too much a part of my life to stop in the CHANCE it might get worse.
  • I just don't want this horrible symptom to win.
  • I'll be half the man I am without playing music live, if you saw the energy I release with the band I'm in you'd understand. My profile pic might give that away. I know some of you will say "you'll be more than half the man if tinnitus gets worse". I won't. I have my family, my kids... too many other hobbies to distract me. Flight simming for one :ROFL::D
  • I respect each one of you for cautioning me, I have taken it all on board, and it is because of all of you that I am far more aware than I ever was, and because of you that I will take the necessary steps IF it gets worse.
 
I'm willing to take that chance because the band/our music is too important to me.
It's the same thing as people doing extreme sports (BASE jumping for example). They know they might die any time but they still find the risk worth it.

Same for tinnitus, if you play in a band, you can get suicidal tinnitus and have to suicide, but at least you enjoyed your life until that time.
 
Same for tinnitus, if you play in a band, you can get suicidal tinnitus and have to suicide, but at least you enjoyed your life until that time.
@ajc This is an absolutely insane thing to mention on a forum where people might be vulnerable. Comparing basejumping to playing in a f*cking band. You don't know me. It's almost like you hope I get to that stage so that you can say "ha, told ya so".
 
If you continue, I recommend getting stage volume down to the absolute minimum. There are other musicians who have done this for the same reasons.

My opinion is it will get worse. There are no warnings. It gets worse and that's that. What if it gets so loud you can't hear a guitar anymore? Remember your earplugs are only giving you a 9 dB reduction. You need to be under 70 dB. With your plugs in I bet you're getting hit with 90-100+ decibels.

Buy a pro sound meter with a calibrator.
 

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