Noise-Induced Tinnitus — 5 Gigs Since Spike — Not Getting Worse

[Flamingo1]

I respect each one of you for cautioning me, I have taken it all on board, and it is because of all of you that I am far more aware than I ever was, and because of you that I will take the necessary steps IF it gets worse.

First, I want to thank you for starting this thread. It has brought out much information about noise induced tinnitus from very informed and experienced members of our wonderful and supportive community TT has been my lifeline for the past three years.

My comment to your post is that by the time your tinnitus gets worse, it may already be too late. Due of my mild tinnitus, I gave up music and loud events, and am still adjusting to a quieter lifestyle. However, I take comfort in the fact that I am doing all I can to prevent my tinnitus from getting worse. It can be an absolute nightmare and several of our members have committed suicide because of it. Have you thought about taking up other hobbies to possibly replace your music endeavors?

 

[Jaka]

PostScript: I'm not trying to be strident here but do think this is an extraordinary remarkable and unsubstantiated claim. Paired with this I don't understand the recommendation of consulting with a "audiologist with a background in noise induced tinnitus" since they are almost all going to universally write-off your points of caution.

The linked article mentions shooting guns and considering the fact that you are holding the gun the sound levels at ear can definitely reach the "stupendous" level.

I am going to be cautious about commenting loud cinemas now with provided measurements at concerts
In the cinemas I went to in our country earplugs would definitely be more than enough (if properly worn).

But it really boils down to the actual sound levels through the whole frequency spectrum, the actual noise reduction of the earplugs and how properly you wear them.

The most valuable takeaway from the link you provided is the reference to 3M "EARLog":
https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/worker-health-safety-us/solutions/hearing-conservation/e-a-r-log/

There you can find a wealth of good technical articles discussing all ins and outs of ear protection.

So you can't really simplify everything down to "I have ear protection, so this means I'll be fine"
And everything we discussed here also applies to people without ear problems...

 

[Earing]

I play at home with an LED sound meter on to always monitor my volume, and I use my amps with a Weber Mass Attinuator or I go into my recording software with a Suhr Reactive Load Box into ir's. I have Scuffham S-Gear which I run with just the ir's and my pedals and tube amp(s) or I can plug direct into my RME Babyface Pro and run S-Gear's amps.

I most likely won't ever play my guitar amps straight up again.

 

[Dhaych]

My comment to your post is that by the time your tinnitus gets worse, it may already be too late. Due of my mild tinnitus, I gave up music and loud events, and am still adjusting to a quieter lifestyle. However, I take comfort in the fact that I am doing all I can to prevent my tinnitus from getting worse. It can be an absolute nightmare and several of our members have committed suicide because of it. Have you thought about taking up other hobbies to possibly replace your music endeavors?

Thanks @Flamingo1, appreciate that. Believe me, if I get so much as a spike, or a feeling on stage of it getting worse, I'll walk off no problem and never grace the stage again. Yes, I have plenty of other things I like to do besides music. I coach underage rugby, play flight simulator, jogging, recording at home (VERY LOW VOLUMES without headphones), and playing with my youngest who's 8, he's enough to distract from anything haha.

 

[Dhaych]

My opinion is it will get worse

That should read "My opinion is it MIGHT get worse"

What if

It's all just "What ifs" isn't it...

Look at Chris Martin - had tinnitus for 10 years... started wearing custom moulds (I know I know!!) and he says it hasn't gotten worse since. Optimism from people like that and countless others...

 

[Earing]

That should read "My opinion is it MIGHT get worse"

It's all just "What ifs" isn't it...

Look at Chris Martin - had tinnitus for 10 years... started wearing custom moulds (I know I know!!) and he says it hasn't gotten worse since. Optimism from people like that and countless others...

If you expose yourself to a live band you can count on it.

 

[Rogi Cetpla]

Hey all,

So I'm 5 gigs in since my spike 3 weeks ago with new custom moulded ear plugs with -25 dB attenuation. So far so good.

Tinnitus hasn't gotten any worse, and I'm also slowly habituating to this new level. For those who didn't see my original post, it spiked due to headphone use in studio.

I've also been back in the studio recording our new album, but this time I recorded in the control room with earplugs in.

I wanted to post this because I've seen certain members reply negatively saying things like "never gig again" or "quit the band" and "never use headphones again, even at low volume".

While I appreciate they're trying to help, I think everyone is different in how they react to their tinnitus and how they deal with it. For me... it's "F*ck you tinnitus, you're not going to change who I am."

I just hope fellow musicians won't give up so easily and keep going so long as it doesn't get worse for you.

Hi @Dhaych,

I found this interesting interview of a musician, producer and music tutor... coping with tinnitus and living his life to the full...

https://www.m-magazine.co.uk/creators/learning-to-live-with-tinnitus-an-interview-with-rupert-brown/

Stay strong,
Rogi

 

[Earing]

Last thing I will say...

Why did you get tinnitus? What are your ears telling you? Listen to them. Your measly 9db earplugs barely do anything to a cranked Marshall and a rocking drummer. Earplugs don't stop bone induction and do not block low frequencies like bass. Vocals alone hit 90 dB. Then you add in monitors and mains, the cheering crowd. Don't forget that excruciating PA microphone feedback that just about blows your head off.

Hyperacusis is a tinnitus companion and a game changer.

 

[Dhaych]

If you expose yourself to a live band you can count on it.

Nope... Not for everyone at least. My Dad is an example, my many friends who have continued in spite of tinnitus, and it not getting worse will say otherwise. And some of them are playing 30+ years.

 

[PDodge]

I started playing with my band again, been too probably, 6? live shows. It took me 2 years to even consider a live event, and 2.5 to consider playing again. I have the custom plugs but choose to use foamies for the time being. Any spike I've had so far has been from poor sleep. Keep rockin' but be mindful and safe!

 

[Dhaych]

I started playing with my band again, been too probably, 6? live shows. It took me 2 years to even consider a live event, and 2.5 to consider playing again. I have the custom plugs but choose to use foamies for the time being. Any spike I've had so far has been from poor sleep. Keep rockin' but be mindful and safe!

This 100%... thank you man, and best of luck!

 

[Dhaych]

Last thing I will say...

Why did you get tinnitus? What are your ears telling you? Listen to them. Your measly 9db earplugs barely do anything to a cranked Marshall and a rocking drummer. Earplugs don't stop bone induction and do not block low frequencies like bass. Vocals alone hit 90 dB. Then you add in monitors and mains, the cheering crowd. Don't forget that excruciating PA microphone feedback that just about blows your head off.

Hyperacusis is a tinnitus companion and a game changer.

Here we go again. Right. I got tinnitus because I wasn't wearing ear plugs when I played in metal bands, and through to playing in cover bands... and only started wearing €20 ear plugs in the last 5 years but they would loosen in the ear etc. These custom ones don't (I don't care what you say about measly 9 dB). I don't have a Marshall stack, I've a 2x12 Vox Ac30 that sits on the ground, I don't use monitors... can't remember the last time I experienced mic feedback, but it was only heard FOH.

 

[Earing]

Get a quality meter. You will be surprised what volumes you are exposed to. I didn't make up the -7 divide by 2 = dB reduction.

I wish you all the best with everything.

 

[PDodge]

This 100%... thank you man, and best of luck!

Thanks, and you as well. I got T from using 0 ear protection for like..6 years. Stupid! I still have T and hate it,a. Right now I'm dealing with wrist issues affecting my playing too.(Great!)

 

[Dhaych]

Right now I'm dealing with wrist issues affecting my playing too.(Great!)

It's never easy is it

 

[Dhaych]

Get a quality meter. You will be surprised what volumes you are exposed to. I didn't make up the -7 divide by 2 = dB reduction.

I wish you all the best with everything.

Thank you @Earing I know you mean well, I have the RS PRO RS-95 and on my side of the stage with drums at opposite end it measured 93 dB. I have keys player next to me but she uses in ears so I hear none of that.

 

[Earing]

Thank you @Earing I know you mean well, I have the RS PRO RS-95 and on my side of the stage with drums at opposite end it measured 93 dB. I have keys player next to me but she uses in ears so I hear none of that.

Is that with your guitar at full show volumes?

 

[Dhaych]

Is that with your guitar at full show volumes?

Yes - when I say I've made changes, I meant it haha. Important to note that those venues weren't very big so I didn't need to fill the room, I depend on the sound engineer to crank it FOH. I heard myself just enough and also feel and know what I'm playing. Will be interesting to see what it's like when we hit festivals in the summer.

 

[Earing]

I looked up the RS PRO RS-95. It is not a top level unit. Did you calibrate it?

 

[Sandra]

25 dB NRR earplugs do not reduce sound by 25 dB. They reduce it by 9 dB.

The formula is 25 dB subtract 7 = 18. Then divide 18 by 2 = 9 dB reduction.

UK uses SNR which adds 6 dB. So it's -13 divided by 2 = dB reduction.
NA uses NRR -7 divided by 2 = dB reduction.

That's not quite how the calculation for NRR is performed. The final step is to subtract the 9 dB from the original NRR rating. 16 dB is the actual reduction.

 

[Earing]

That's not quite how the calculation for NRR is performed. The final step is to subtract the 9 dB from the original NRR rating. 16 dB is the actual reduction.

I got my formula from many different threads and also other sites. Where did you get yours from?

 

[Earing]

That's not quite how the calculation for NRR is performed. The final step is to subtract the 9 dB from the original NRR rating. 16 dB is the actual reduction.

I Googled it and this came up:

Given the previous example, your noise reduction equation would look like the following: (33-7)/2 = 13. This means that if you are at a rock concert with a level of noise exposure at 100 dB and you are wearing a hearing protector with an NRR 33 dB, your new level of noise exposure is 87 dB.

Here is a PDF from 3m that also uses my formula:

https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media...how-to-use-the-noise-reduction-rating-nrr.pdf

 

[Michael Leigh]

@Michael Leigh, would love to hear if you agree about not noticing small increases while habituated.

I agree with you @Capstan small increases in tinnitus once a person habituates is often not noticeable. The increase can also come on very suddenly after a noise trauma. Unfortunately this is the danger because it happened to me in 2008, when my tinnitus increased due to a second noise trauma that I have written about in my post: My experiences with Tinnitus, in the link below. Many people have contacted me saying the same.

All the best
Michael

https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/my-experience-with-tinnitus.12076/

 

[El BUZZ]

@Dhaych

Hi mate! A fellow musician who had to quit here. Played saxophone for years. BTW, I received lessons from Gary Baus in Cork City. I used good foam earplugs in most of my rehearsals and gigs. I was very cautious about that. I was learning to play bass and one day after a rehearsal in which I wasn't wearing earplugs... tinnitus entered in scene. That was four years ago. I've been to some gigs since then. Far from stage and wearing earplugs. My tinnitus has worsened. It is 999% severe. Shower, bus engine, heavy traffic, storm... Can hear it over everything.

THEN, I've got weird friends... Read this:

A close friend of mine has had tinnitus for 13 years now. He keeps playing. WEST AFRICAN DRUMS. No earplugs. Three rehearsals per week in a tiny room along with three other musicians banging those djembes during hours. Concerts. Lessons. No worsening.

Another good guy I know well woke up hearing this junk. Moderate. Plays guitar in a garage band. Goes to tons of gigs. No earplugs. Works for TV and wears earphones for hours every day. No worsening.

Another fellow sax player. Music teacher. Plays in big bands. Have you seen where saxophones are placed in a big band set? Under a row of trumpets and then another row of trombones behind them... Cheapo cheesy earplugs. No worsening.

I haven't done anything remotely close to that and have worn earplugs everytime things got loud. My tinnitus is hell on earth.
So... You really never know.

 

[Jazzer]

Bottom line with me is;

• I'm willing to take that chance because the band/our music is too important to me.
• IF I feel an increase I WILL STOP.
• I have a strong mental barrier over my tinnitus at the moment, which is moderate to severe. I can sleep with it raging, i find the noise soothing sometimes. That will hold to me if it gets worse, I know I can work with it.
• I've been in bands since I was 15, I'm 40 in March - too much a part of my life to stop in the CHANCE it might get worse.
• I just don't want this horrible symptom to win.
• I'll be half the man I am without playing music live, if you saw the energy I release with the band I'm in you'd understand. My profile pic might give that away. I know some of you will say "you'll be more than half the man if tinnitus gets worse". I won't. I have my family, my kids... too many other hobbies to distract me. Flight simming for one
• I respect each one of you for cautioning me, I have taken it all on board, and it is because of all of you that I am far more aware than I ever was, and because of you that I will take the necessary steps IF it gets worse.

Hi buddy
I was thinking about you early this morning
- I woke up screaming !!!
(only kidding)

I realised I ought to reply with a bit more perspective this time.
I've been a muso brass player since age ten (1952) on cornet. Taught myself trombone at 18 and played professionally since age 20y.
I first had Tinnitus round about 1990.
It was there alright, but mild to moderate I'd say.
Continued playing clubs, concerts all over Europe and beyond and no deterioration until one open air gig in June 2014, when a banjo player thrashed hard right in my face.
The following morning I was in hell.

After a couple of months off I returned to playing, but much more carefully - ear plugs in on every session.
In May 2018 I took the decision to finish my career.
There had been no further deterioration since 2014 - but I was acutely aware of the gamble I was taking.
If it got any worse would I be able to cope?
I simply did not know.

As things are I have been able to come to reasonable terms with it.
It is loud (see my video - "Dave's Tinnitus Story")
- but being way past panic mode I now cope.

The real reason I wanted to post again:
all of these guys are preaching caution to you, and they are quite right to do so - but they probably do not know the fantastic BUZZ of being a real music maker.
Of thinking on your feet - of making spontaneous
music in real time - of having a Ska or a jazz soul.
It nearly broke me up to walk away while I was on top of my game.
I had played the jazz circuit round and round in the U.K. continuously for over 50 years.
No end of promoters, club owners, punters, told me I was their favourite 'bonist.
I had a fantastic ear.
I could hear a recording and write out the chord sequence in real time for the pianist.
As a musician you always know where you are in the league table because you hear all of the others.
I was right up there.
I know where you sit buddy!

I just want to say best wishes, take care, use the plugs, and the very best of luck.
Dave x
Jazzer

 

[Dhaych]

Hi buddy
I was thinking about you early this morning
- I woke up screaming !!!
(only kidding)

I realised I ought to reply with a bit more perspective this time.
I've been a muso brass player since age ten (1952) on cornet. Taught myself trombone at 18 and played professionally since age 20y.
I first had Tinnitus round about 1990.
It was there alright, but mild to moderate I'd say.
Continued playing clubs, concerts all over Europe and beyond and no deterioration until one open air gig in June 2014, when a banjo player thrashed hard right in my face.
The following morning I was in hell.

After a couple of months off I returned to playing, but much more carefully - ear plugs in on every session.
In May 2018 I took the decision to finish my career.
There had been no further deterioration since 2014 - but I was acutely aware of the gamble I was taking.
If it got any worse would I be able to cope?
I simply did not know.

As things are I have been able to come to reasonable terms with it.
It is loud (see my video - "Dave's Tinnitus Story")
- but being way past panic mode I now cope.

The real reason I wanted to post again:
all of these guys are preaching caution to you, and they are quite right to do so - but they probably do not know the fantastic BUZZ of being a real music maker.
Of thinking on your feet - of making spontaneous
music in real time - of having a Ska or a jazz soul.
It nearly broke me up to walk away while I was on top of my game.
I had played the jazz circuit round and round in the U.K. continuously for over 50 years.
No end of promoters, club owners, punters, told me I was their favourite 'bonist.
I had a fantastic ear.
I could hear a recording and write out the chord sequence in real time for the pianist.
As a musician you always know where you are in the league table because you hear all of the others.
I was right up there.
I know where you sit buddy!

I just want to say best wishes, take care, use the plugs, and the very best of luck.
Dave x
Jazzer

Thank you for taking the time to say all that Dave, you're a true gent. All I have is hope & luck!

 

[Dhaych]

@Dhaych

Hi mate! A fellow musician who had to quit here. Played saxophone for years. BTW, I received lessons from Gary Baus in Cork City. I used good foam earplugs in most of my rehearsals and gigs. I was very cautious about that. I was learning to play bass and one day after a rehearsal in which I wasn't wearing earplugs... tinnitus entered in scene. That was four years ago. I've been to some gigs since then. Far from stage and wearing earplugs. My tinnitus has worsened. It is 999% severe. Shower, bus engine, heavy traffic, storm... Can hear it over everything.

THEN, I've got weird friends... Read this:

A close friend of mine has had tinnitus for 13 years now. He keeps playing. WEST AFRICAN DRUMS. No earplugs. Three rehearsals per week in a tiny room along with three other musicians banging those djembes during hours. Concerts. Lessons. No worsening.

Another good guy I know well woke up hearing this junk. Moderate. Plays guitar in a garage band. Goes to tons of gigs. No earplugs. Works for TV and wears earphones for hours every day. No worsening.

Another fellow sax player. Music teacher. Plays in big bands. Have you seen where saxophones are placed in a big band set? Under a row of trumpets and then another row of trombones behind them... Cheapo cheesy earplugs. No worsening.

I haven't done anything remotely close to that and have worn earplugs everytime things got loud. My tinnitus is hell on earth.
So... You really never know.

Ah Gary Baus, great player who used to play with us! And yes, everybody is different, and everyone copes in different ways... hoping I can too and it continues this way. Thanks for replying!

 

[Bartoli]

Hi buddy
I was thinking about you early this morning
- I woke up screaming !!!
(only kidding)

I realised I ought to reply with a bit more perspective this time.
I've been a muso brass player since age ten (1952) on cornet. Taught myself trombone at 18 and played professionally since age 20y.
I first had Tinnitus round about 1990.
It was there alright, but mild to moderate I'd say.
Continued playing clubs, concerts all over Europe and beyond and no deterioration until one open air gig in June 2014, when a banjo player thrashed hard right in my face.
The following morning I was in hell.

After a couple of months off I returned to playing, but much more carefully - ear plugs in on every session.
In May 2018 I took the decision to finish my career.
There had been no further deterioration since 2014 - but I was acutely aware of the gamble I was taking.
If it got any worse would I be able to cope?
I simply did not know.

As things are I have been able to come to reasonable terms with it.
It is loud (see my video - "Dave's Tinnitus Story")
- but being way past panic mode I now cope.

The real reason I wanted to post again:
all of these guys are preaching caution to you, and they are quite right to do so - but they probably do not know the fantastic BUZZ of being a real music maker.
Of thinking on your feet - of making spontaneous
music in real time - of having a Ska or a jazz soul.
It nearly broke me up to walk away while I was on top of my game.
I had played the jazz circuit round and round in the U.K. continuously for over 50 years.
No end of promoters, club owners, punters, told me I was their favourite 'bonist.
I had a fantastic ear.
I could hear a recording and write out the chord sequence in real time for the pianist.
As a musician you always know where you are in the league table because you hear all of the others.
I was right up there.
I know where you sit buddy!

I just want to say best wishes, take care, use the plugs, and the very best of luck.
Dave x
Jazzer

Hey Jazzer

Didn't know you kept on playing for 4 years after your incident. What do you mean by a banjo player trashing in your face? Not cracking his banjo over your head I suppose? You mean with the volume? Don't mean to stir up bad memories so ignore this if you please, I'm just curious.
Greets

 

[Jazzer]

Hey @El BUZZ
- did you get to see my clip of Frankie Rosolino
in 'Jazzer's Videos?'

 

[Jazzer]

Hey Jazzer

Didn't know you kept on playing for 4 years after your incident. What do you mean by a banjo player trashing in your face? Not cracking his banjo over your head I suppose? You mean with the volume? Don't mean to stir up bad memories so ignore this if you please, I'm just curious.
Greets

Hiya
As well as playing clubs and concerts I also did countless functions and events in open air settings entertaining the crowds.
Racecourses: Royal Ascot, Newbury, Brighton, Lingfield, Windsor, etc....
Henley Regatta, Lord Mayor's Show etc...

My trio or quartet would be standing in line (striped blazers, boaters, all that dixieland stuff) and I would try to position myself back from the banjo players velum to reduce the decibel level.
Being an Aspergers arse'ole he screamed at me,
"You keep fucking moving away !!"
He thrashed right in front of me.
Having been a friend of 30 years, fed and slept in my house frequently - he no longer exists in my universe.