Panic Attacks, Scared I’ll Never Habituate

[Daniel Lion]

I have been advised EXERCISE AND DIET by more than a few people. It is not going to reduce the tinnitus. A while back, I tried jogging. The problem is the tinnitus is so intrusive and most of the time, I have ear pain, too.

I assure you, if the tinnitus wasn't so extreme, I would be into this - I was into exercise and diet before tinnitus. I often felt guilty if I didn't do enough in a day. But, the constant loud tones and ear pain discourages me from doing anything, even going out - unless I have to.

Btw, "this "it's early, you are young and not where we are now.'" No. I am not young. Just because you are used to it, that doesn't apply to me. I am fucked unless it reduces/improves and I am afraid that there is not much hope or good signs.

Sorry for implying you're young. I just got that impression... my bad.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

but much can be done to help ourselves, whether physically, and/or emotionally, and/or spiritually. The will to take initiatives to help ourselves in times of crisis goes well beyond genetics IMHO.

I agree with your thoughts, and losing willpower is not always our fault. Tinnitus and physical types of tinnitus is complicated. Doctors and dentists often see anywhere from 8 to 30 patients a day. I think that it's good that doctors don't have access to psych medical records.

Problems in getting proper treatment or at lease an attempt is high volume of patients seen, insurance costs, doctors not willing to team with other doctors and doctors not knowing enough about available treatment for those with physical tinnitus. Sometimes it's not fault of doctors, it's the system. Money also talks. Many doctors base what treatment and study that they will give on patient appearance and attitude. A patient really needs to have everything that they know about their condition - including what they feel is cause - typed on paper to bring to appointments. It also may help to hire someone with a medical background to do a few hours of possible condition research for you. Bringing this person to your appointments if possible would be a plus.

Some doctors will eye you like a salesperson. They don't like patients going on the internet. They will say don't believe everything that you read on the internet. What's is important for your doctor to know is that you have medical friends or the ability to research professional studies yourself written by other doctors. They may curse at this, but their mouths will drop and they will take your care more real.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

Greg Sacramento has pain you couldn't imagine, not only in his head but all the nerves in his mouth.

Sometime in the next few weeks I will been having major mouth surgery, so I'm been posting more than usual in the last week because I'm nervous. The surgery is because of medical treatment errors.

I started reading Malcolm Gladwell's new book 'Talking to Strangers'. He mentions to be aware there limitations to our ability to make sense of someone when they make errors and to forgive someone when errors are made. So am I suppose to forgive my care giver. Would he have made the same lack of skill judgement on a family member. I doubt it.

 

[Daniel Lion]

Sometime in the next few weeks I will been having major mouth surgery, so I'm been posting more than usual in the last week because I'm nervous. The surgery is because of medical treatment errors.

I started reading Malcolm Gladwell's new book 'Talking to Strangers'. He mentions to be aware there limitations to our ability to make sense of someone when they make errors and to forgive someone when errors are made. So am I suppose to forgive my care giver. Would he have made the same lack of skill judgement on a family member. I doubt it.

Entertaining writer... but I have certainly taken issue with many of his writings. One piece on marijuana was ludicrous, the NY Times quietly apologized for some of its content. Entertaining, I will say that, but a lot of what he writes I disagree with, and I have read a fare bit of his work.
Perhaps read something else, like Bill Bryson, a walk in the woods, really funny and sweet, and intelligent.

Praying your surgery goes well...

Can we forgive... I don't know really. I am still bitter about the ENT who botched up my ears.
I do know eventually we have to let go of hate and bitterness so it does not pollute our souls and our blood. Eventually we will get there, but letting go is not exactly the same as forgiveness. The Dali lama would be a better person to seek guidance on this matter.

Ultimately love reigns supreme, and with that, I am wishing you a safe, and successful operation.
Recovery is gonna be hard and scary, but I know you'll pull through with the support of your wife and family, and your amazing inner strength. So good luck, I am praying for you, we all are.

Sincerely, Daniel

 

[Star64]

And to push back, the reason why supplements cause so few side effects is because they have such little reaction within the body compared to conventional meds i.e. supplements benefit a patient much less.

You might as well, shout at the moon in the dark and save your credit card bill. People believe in things though which pays for the lights at health food stores. I have met my share of unhealthy vegans on the bike over the years as well. No strength and sickly. They take a lot of supplements too. Supplements can in fact be bad for the body. The problem with playing doctor.

You and I could have a long conversation and no doubt you have about pharma approach to better medicine. Alive in well in unhealthy America. Not what we are talking about. I am uber fit and try to take zero medicine. I have been fortunate to have been born with a very healthy body I have taken good care of and have never taken any meds other than occasional benzos due to a high pressure job and thank god for benzos. All the poppy seed fairy dust won't bring somebody down from the ledge sorry. You can believe what you like and chase the magic dragon of the mystery of your body by talking to Lane and the hippy wearing sandals at the health food store.

God forbid if you ever have heart surgery, please don't consider taking what the health food guy recommends for med's to ward off infection and mitigate pain...lol. Or if you have cancer, don't go on line and listen to some guy on the internet say his sister was cured by taking sun flower seeds and mineral water.

You can take all the Omega 3 you like and it won't help your tinnitus.

Tinnitus is best managed by my person experience is trying to make the body as healthy as possible and living life fully and not by getting vitamin D out of a bottle but by being in the sun living like our ancestors did.

Again, my opinion of course. Of course there are millions of sedentary, fat people who turn to pharma for what ails them. Same guilt on the supplement chasers only their method is more scattershot and will less not more efficacy in actually helping.

My opinion of course.

PS. all of Lane's recovery? I don't put an ounce of it toward any supplements he puts in his body. I believe Lane has cured more naturally of his darkest hours as do virtually ALL who are suicidal when they first get tinnitus, come to terms with it, and get back out there and start living their lives normally only with a back ground noise in their head that loses significance.

Yes I was waiting for the push back LOL, Just hang on a minute John, let me blow out my incense, Yes people believe in things, like yourself you have given the curcumin a try, I presume it was to see if it benefited your tinnitus or were you just trying to be a nice guy and contribute to somebody's electricity bill...

I am glad you have so much faith in the medical profession, believe me I have seen my fair share of stuff ups in surgery, I worked as theater nurse for years, things go wrong more than the general pubic know. Medication errors caused by Doctors, well, lets just say they are only human, they make mistakes too. I just believe people should not just take there Doctors word for everything, they need to advocate for themselves or their loved ones if needed. One should question, check what is being prescribed, what procedure is being undertaken etc....as @Lane said pill takers beware.

Even after all I know, if I needed heart surgery of course I would have it, if I got cancer I am uncertain what I would do, depending on the type and the expected outcome, I would make a decision....I certainly would prefer to take medical marijuana to mitigate any pain that is for sure.

I am not anti medication, I am just a firm believer that there is room for other types of medicine other than conventional...for instance Integrative medicine combines conventional and alternative therapies in a coordinated way, functional medicine, treats the patient not the disease, and alternative medicine treats symptoms using medications that are closer to nature... sure not all treatments are scientifically validated but that is to not to say they do not work.

Poppy seed fairy dust might not bring people back from the ledge, but you must be mindful some of the big gun medications place people on that ledge, everything has it pluses and minuses.. We are always going to disagree I think on this topic john, maybe we should concentrate on finding the right car for me to race against you on the The Nürburgring. I presume you will be in the camaro.

BYO cheer squad, I have plenty of hippy friends in Germany that would be cheering me on, Oh by the way, I prefer Christian Loubutin shoes to hippy sandals

Back to burning Incense now, I leave you with the following quote,

To be able under all circumstances to practice five things constitutes perfect virtue; these five things are gravity, generosity of soul, sincerity, earnestness and kindness.

 

[Harley]

Sometime in the next few weeks I will been having major mouth surgery, so I'm been posting more than usual in the last week because I'm nervous. The surgery is because of medical treatment errors.

I started reading Malcolm Gladwell's new book 'Talking to Strangers'. He mentions to be aware there limitations to our ability to make sense of someone when they make errors and to forgive someone when errors are made. So am I suppose to forgive my care giver. Would he have made the same lack of skill judgement on a family member. I doubt it.

When it comes to medical errors, they should only be forgiven if an honest mistake was made.

But if your case has gross negligence written all over it, forgiving would make you an enabler, because they will do the same to the next guy if left unchallenged.

That one has to be fought with iron fist approach instead (prefferably via lawsuit), as they need to learn that not giving a fuck/not doing their job, will come back to them like a boomerang.

 

[John Mahan]

Interesting comments about Secretariat. Genetics surely play a key role in whether or not a horse becomes a champion. But like humans, what also matters is its heart. Does it have the heart of a champion, and what are other variables that come into play? I suspect Secretariat had a very "privileged" upbringing. Let's compare this to a circus elephant:

When a new elephant is brought into a circus setting from the wilds of Africa (don't know if that still happens), it would normally be full of spirit and resistance (genetics). My understanding is the first thing trainers would do is tie a strong rope or cable around it's foot, and tie the other end to a tree. The elephant would struggle valiantly against this for long periods of time, until it finally realizes it can't free itself.

What the trainer then does is carry around a portable tree stump wherever he goes with the elephant, and when he wants to have it stay in one place for a while, he just puts one end of a rope around the elephant and the other end around the (fake) portable tree stump. Of course, the elephant doesn't know that it could easily break free, as it had already been ingrained with a sense of "learned helplessness".

Sadly, I see a somewhat similar scenario play out on these forums. So many here that are suicidal are so pessimistic that anything can be done to improve their lot. They repeatedly read depressing scenarios on this forum, often believing "nothing" can be done. Plus, they're told repeatedly by ENTs and other doctors that they just "have to get used to it". Seems to me they also become ingrained with a sense of "learned helplessness".

But I firmly believe life is far more maleable than people often come to believe. I know it's hard to see a way out of a deep personal crisis like intrusive tinnitus, but I believe literally everybody can do something (not matter how small) to improve their lot, in some way, shape or form. And a number of "little things" often end up making a BIG difference. It may not be a total cessation of tinnitus, and/or some other distressful ear condition, but much can be done to help ourselves, whether physically, and/or emotionally, and/or spiritually. The will to take initiatives to help ourselves in times of crisis goes well beyond genetics IMHO.

I find your Secretariat and Elephant analogy to be obtuse. We can put an elephant in the Kentucky derby as well. A race horse would win. Could put a snail, a turtle, fast dog or even a human in the Kentucky Derby as well against amateur horses of non privilege and a horse would win. Genetics.

You are a pretty serious nurture guy who denies genetics in my opinion of course...or places nurture ahead of genetics. What you are forgetting is, both your and my genetics...the strength of our minds and genetics are reason we can climb out of the abyss of despair that others live in and can't climb out of. I never came to this forum and wrote such obsessive things about offing myself. I struggled profoundly with tinnitus as many do when they first get it, but the 'norm' is, people climb out of the basement and live relatively normal lives even with obtrusive tinnitus. Who don't in my opinion? Those more profoundly mentally ill. You see it on this forum every day. They don't choose to be mentally ill, many times manifesting from a young age....choose to be schizophrenic or have bi-polar disorder, they are wired this way. Of course if an abused person with fragile genetics like a guy like Charles Manson with low IQ and psychotic disorder, he will do bad things to people and he did. But his abuse was only a subset of who he truly was, a mentally ill person with low IQ.

So Lane, you get by on Lithium if you still take it. You believe it detoxifies your brain and I believe it addresses what mental illness you have that I believe you were born with. I don't know if you come from privledge or not, but to me it doesn't matter. You seem pretty well educated. The book on Lithium is pretty well known and you can re-write its underlying true benefit if you like, but as with your 'nurture theory' I will have to disagree.

Btw, I believe you have a future in the Kentucky Derby. Race a non breed horse that you treat with more privilege aka nurture than the other horses and you should win.

Oh, and if you thinking about training a burglar to rob houses to make a little extra spending money. Don't choose one with anxiety disorder. You could coddle such a person and tell them they are the best, but I believe you will be swimming upstream....lol. You may have heard, he has nerves like a jewel thief. There are people that don't. They were born that way. People choose their profession and act out in their lives based upon their genetics. Just like Secretariat would hang back in a pack of race horses and then race by and show the other horses his true superiority.

Why Lithium keeps you down off the ledge. Lithium restores your brain chemistry that your genetics didn't give you. No different than a diabetic needing insulin. Genetics.
Also, never have a color blind person paint your house. Just a friendly tip....or a schizophrenic.

Lithium to treat bipolar disorder

Pharmacological treatment of bipolar disorder continues to be a challenge for psychiatrists today, since each phase of the disease usually requires a different therapeutic approach.

Nevertheless, during the last 50 years some changes in the trends of use of the different drugs available to treat this type of psychopathological alteration have been experienced.

In this sense, lithium has been, and continues to be, the drug par excellence for bipolar disorder. In fact, in the 1950s and 1960s it already had acceptance in Europe and is still maintained today.

Recently, the Collegial Medical Organization and the Ministry of Health and Consumer Affairs have developed a manual of action in the case of mania that collects the evidence in favor of the use of lithium in these pathologies.

Specifically, this study has demonstrated strong evidence for the use of lithium in acute mania, i.e. in those cases where manic symptoms are expressed autonomously.

Thus, the study demonstrated how in controlled and randomized trials of this type of psychopathologies, lithium achieved a good pharmacological response in practically all cases.

However, in this same study, lithium only obtained limited evidence on its effectiveness in treating cases of mixed mania, i.e. to intervene in those episodes presenting depressive symptoms and manic symptoms simultaneously.

In these cases, other drugs such as evaporate or cabramazepine demonstrated a greater effectiveness of treatment.

Thus, lithium has been shown to have a greater effectiveness in the treatment of manic episodes than in the treatment of mixed episodes, so the diagnosis of these characteristics of bipolar disorder becomes very important when specifying the therapeutic plan.

As regards the hippomanic phases, it has been demonstrated that lithium is an effective drug to attenuate its symptoms, to stabilize the mood and to recover an optimal operation.

This was evidenced by a retrospective study by Tone on the efficacy of lithium to reverse hippomanic phases in a total of 129 people with type II bipolar disorder.

In addition, in this same study, the effects of lithium were studied to treat the manic symptoms presented in a total of 188 individuals diagnosed with type I bipolar disorder.

In this second review of Tone, it was found that the efficacy of lithium was more effective in treating hyperthymic symptoms (manic episodes and hippomanic episodes) than in treating hypothermic symptoms (depressive episodes).

Finally, it should be noted that other types of drugs are often added to the treatment with lithium for bipolar disorder.


Multiple studies have shown that certain antipsychotics interact well with lithium and increase the potential for treatment to reverse the symptoms of bipolar disorder.

More specifically, in the manual developed by the Collegiate Medical Organization and the Ministry of Health and Consumer Affairs, Haloperidol, Risperidone, Olanzapine, Quetiapine and Arpiprazole were found to be optimal drugs to accompany treatment with lithium.

Finally, it should be noted that, as demonstrated by Goodwin and Jamison in 1990, lithium is a drug suitable for the maintenance treatment of bipolar disorder since it reduces the frequency, duration and intensity of manic, hippomanic and depressive episodes.

Thus, from all of this we can draw the following conclusions about the efficacy of lithium for bipolar disorder:

1. Lithium is the drug most commonly used to treat bipolar disorders.
2. Together with other mood stabilizers like Carbamazepine or Valrico Acid is the first choice treatment.
3. Lithium is used more frequently than Carbamazepine and Valrico Acid to demonstrate higher rates of efficacy in the treatment of bipolar disorder.
4. Lithium is especially effective in treating the manic and hippomanic symptoms of bipolar disorder and achieving a decrease in mood by stabilizing the patient's affection.
5. The combination of lithium with some antipsychotics is probably the most effective therapeutic combination to treat manic episodes.
6. The combination of lithium and antipsychotics to treat hippomanic episodes is also effective; however, because of the lower severity of these episodes, it is often not necessary to add antipsychotics to lithium treatment.
7. Despite being a suitable drug to treat mixed episodes, its effectiveness is somewhat reduced when compared to the effect it causes in the treatment of manic or hippomanic episodes.
8. The efficacy of lithium to treat depression episodes is much lower than for treating episodes of mania or hypomania.
9. Lithium is used to treat depressive episodes of bipolar disorder but is usually more expendable to treat depressive episodes of depression.
10. Lithium is a medicine suitable for the maintenance treatment of bipolar disorder.

Depression and Bipolar Disorder

Depression and bipolar disorder are two mental illnesses that are part of the same diagnostic group; however, they are rarely interpreted as similar disorders.

In fact, depression is often interpreted as a fairly common psychological disorder, while bipolar disorder is often seen as a rather extravagant mental disorder.

However, the differences between the two disorders are not so conspicuous and both constitute an alteration of mood.

Depression

For its part, depression is characterized by the suffering of depressive episodes that modify the mood of the person.

The suffering of this type of episodes is determined by presenting a depressive mood, and a loss of interest and / or a decrease in the capacity to experience pleasure.

Likewise, during the depressive episode the person usually experiences sadness, vague physical complaints, alterations of the appetite, of the dream and of the libido, difficulties to concentrate, agitation or psychomotor slowing.

Finally, the thinking becomes pessimistic and can be impregnated with ideas of handicap and guilt. Ideas of death or suicide may also arise.

Thus, the diagnosis of depression is made by connoting the presence of at least one depressive episode like the one just discussed.

Bipolar disorder

In bipolar disorder, unlike depression, a greater number of different episodes may be experienced.

Firstly, it should be noted that in this disorder one can experience exactly the same depressive episode that is experienced in depression, so that the similarities between the two alterations are immediately apparent.

However, bipolar disorder and depression also differ in many other characteristics.

These characteristics are mainly based on the fact that in bipolar disorder not only are experienced depressive episodes, but also have to present other types of episodes.

One of them is the mania episode. This episode is defined by a period of time equal to or greater than one week in which an abnormal and persistently elevated mood occurs.

In mania, there are states of euphoria, constant expansiveness and recurrent moments of irritability.

Also, symptoms such as excessive self-esteem, grandiosity, decreased sleep, verbiage, brain drain, distraction or disinhibition often appear frequently.

Thus, mania would be an episode in contrast to depression, where instead of a decrease in mood, it rises above normal.

Another episode that can occur in bipolar disorder is hypomania.

The clinic of these episodes is identical to that explained in the manic episodes but it presents in a lower intensity and does not usually cause a clear deterioration in the person who suffers it.

Finally, the last episode that may appear is the mixed episode, which is characterized by the simultaneous appearance of manic symptomatology and depressive symptomatology.

Differences and similarities between depression and bipolar disorder

Thus, when we relate depression to bipolar disorder we can state the following conclusions.

• In both disorders there is an alteration of mood.
• Both disorders may present with depressive episodes.
• Bipolar disorder differs from depression by the presence of manic, hippomanic or mixed episodes with symptoms opposite to those presented in depression.
• Both disorders require a stabilization of the mood to return an optimum affective functioning.

Thus, it is not surprising that a drug that manages to stimulate mood, such as lithium, becomes a suitable drug to treat this type of psychological alterations.

 

[John Mahan]

Sometime in the next few weeks I will been having major mouth surgery, so I'm been posting more than usual in the last week because I'm nervous. The surgery is because of medical treatment errors.

I started reading Malcolm Gladwell's new book 'Talking to Strangers'. He mentions to be aware there limitations to our ability to make sense of someone when they make errors and to forgive someone when errors are made. So am I suppose to forgive my care giver. Would he have made the same lack of skill judgement on a family member. I doubt it.

Greg are they going to perform surgery on the trigeminal nerve? Are you considering radio frequency ablation to kill the pain you live with?

 

[John Mahan]

Interesting, and many epidemiologists would agree with you about the efficacy of supplements, with the exception to somebody who is seriously iron deficient etc, even then they could get it from food.

The reasons I've stopped taking vitamins is purely financial, I just don't have extra hundreds of dollars every month to be spent on supplements. I eat a rounded healthy diet and exercise.

Money pretty much put a stop to my supplement adventure.

For better or worse. My father in law makes weird tinctures from tree barks for me, I drink home made ginger and garlic tea, I eat veg and fish and drink lots of water........things are slowly moving in the right direction.

Good to hear you are heading in the right direction. FWIW I take a multiple vitamin. Probably don't have to. Eating a balanced diet is the best for health, not what is found in a bottle of supplements in my opinion. Iron or magnesium deficiency can be real, but typically is found in food if eating the right diet.

Glad you are feeling better Daniel. I am doing pretty good as well. I take a Benzo on occasion for sleep. I have crazy dreams that interrupt my sleep and Clonazepam really helps for that and typically even lowers my tinnitus the next day because of my brain wave patterns when I sleep. I believe we are in the same camp on that. Not sure how often you take a benzo to help you. I don't need them often but they are a god send when I do.

Be well.

 

[John Mahan]

Yes I was waiting for the push back LOL, Just hang on a minute John, let me blow out my incense, Yes people believe in things, like yourself you have given the curcumin a try, I presume it was to see if it benefited your tinnitus or were you just trying to be a nice guy and contribute to somebody's electricity bill...

I am glad you have so much faith in the medical profession, believe me I have seen my fair share of stuff ups in surgery, I worked as theater nurse for years, things go wrong more than the general pubic know. Medication errors caused by Doctors, well, lets just say they are only human, they make mistakes too. I just believe people should not just take there Doctors word for everything, they need to advocate for themselves or their loved ones if needed. One should question, check what is being prescribed, what procedure is being undertaken etc....as @Lane said pill takers beware.

Even after all I know, if I needed heart surgery of course I would have it, if I got cancer I am uncertain what I would do, depending on the type and the expected outcome, I would make a decision....I certainly would prefer to take medical marijuana to mitigate any pain that is for sure.

I am not anti medication, I am just a firm believer that there is room for other types of medicine other than conventional...for instance Integrative medicine combines conventional and alternative therapies in a coordinated way, functional medicine, treats the patient not the disease, and alternative medicine treats symptoms using medications that are closer to nature... sure not all treatments are scientifically validated but that is to not to say they do not work.

Poppy seed fairy dust might not bring people back from the ledge, but you must be mindful some of the big gun medications place people on that ledge, everything has it pluses and minuses.. We are always going to disagree I think on this topic john, maybe we should concentrate on finding the right car for me to race against you on the The Nürburgring. I presume you will be in the camaro.

BYO cheer squad, I have plenty of hippy friends in Germany that would be cheering me on, Oh by the way, I prefer Christian Loubutin shoes to hippy sandals

Back to burning Incense now, I leave you with the following quote,

To be able under all circumstances to practice five things constitutes perfect virtue; these five things are gravity, generosity of soul, sincerity, earnestness and kindness.

Good post Star thanks.
A couple points of clarification....
We are closer in agreement than you think. I keep an open mind about chasing the holy grail too as misguided as that is and why I tried CBD oil and Curcumin...neither did anything for me.

And maybe it wasn't clear by my post. Nobody is more skeptical than pharma and conventional medicine than I and too have seen it first hand. I lost a young friend on an operating table because they shunted his heart wrong when undergoing surgery. Akin to throwing darts at a dart board.

But guess what? Still the best game in town. Hands down...replete with major failings and doctor screw ups which 'abound' and are ubiquitous...has happened to me and countless others I know on even routine procedures. Better to be lucky than good.

What is worse? People chasing pills in a bottle from big pharma or... chasing foo foo dust at the health care store?

The latter if you want help. I explained why. A benign substance has little down side. Take too much lithium and you likely have a real problem. But lithium helps for mental illness. Ask Lane.

You can chase the supplement dragon, no harm in that. People want to believe in something.

Now back to your incense and chanting while you cue up the fairy dust.
Be well and tell us how it goes. The mind is so powerful, sometimes if you believe in somethings, it comes true.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

Greg are they going to perform surgery on the trigeminal nerve? Are you considering radio frequency ablation to kill the pain you live with?

Hi John: The surgery will be on my soft palate - roof of mouth and side of gums. Several front teeth - once very nice teeth will have to be removed - top and bottom - all due to my dental trauma which is very involved.

 

[GoatSheep]

Sometime in the next few weeks I will been having major mouth surgery, so I'm been posting more than usual in the last week because I'm nervous. The surgery is because of medical treatment errors.

I started reading Malcolm Gladwell's new book 'Talking to Strangers'. He mentions to be aware there limitations to our ability to make sense of someone when they make errors and to forgive someone when errors are made. So am I suppose to forgive my care giver. Would he have made the same lack of skill judgement on a family member. I doubt it.

I truly hope your surgery goes well and brings you some relief Greg. You go out of your way to help so many on the forum while suffering greatly. You are appreciated.

 

[all to gain]

i had a slight ringing in december and a low tone since january but this past week (I'm hoping because of the anxiety) it has been going crazy with more tones appearing. I am starting CBT this week, I have been diagnosed with somatic OCD since the onset. My family seems to be convinced it will lessen once I deal with the panic as I've panicked about things like this before (going blind, having cancer).

The difference is it that I presume your tinnitus is very real, whereas you didn't go blind or get cancer.

I panic as well. Did the CBT help at all?

 

[John Mahan]

Hi John: The surgery will be on my soft palate - roof of mouth and side of gums. Several front teeth - once very nice teeth will have to be removed - top and bottom - all due to my dental trauma which is very involved.

You contribute a lot to this forum Greg to elevate knowledge of tinnitus. I know you have been struggled with your mouth from your posts and hope surgery accomplishes all you wish for.

Best of luck.

Edit: ironically I wrote my post at the same time Selah wrote his, and we wrote the same identical thing. Uncanny because its true.

 

[PeteJ]

Try seeing a TMJ specialist plus get some online hearing aids. Also have some clonazepam and gabapentin on hand as needed. I was good today but don't ask how I will be tomorrow. I was terrible like you almost every day.

Here is a pic similar to my appliance for TMD and sleep apnea:
View attachment 32009

https://www.audicus.com/

Where do you live? Here, I have seen three different dentists and one Dr. No, wait. I have seen after hours doctors and nurse practitioners too. No one has suggested a splint to me. It's like they don't exist. Are they really expensive? Maybe that's why no one says anything to me.

TMJ specialist...again...

WAS denied benzos by family GP.

 

[Star64]

Hi John: The surgery will be on my soft palate - roof of mouth and side of gums. Several front teeth - once very nice teeth will have to be removed - top and bottom - all due to my dental trauma which is very involved.

I am very sorry to read that you are having up coming surgery, I am unsure of your dental drama, but it does sound like you have been through the wringer, that is for sure.

I just hope the surgical team treat you with the respect you deserve and see you as a person and not just a patient. I also hope you have nothing but compassionate nurses by your side.

Sending healing prays your way and wishing you a speedy recovery

 

[Daniel Lion]

Where do you live? Here, I have seen three different dentists and one Dr. No, wait. I have seen after hours doctors and nurse practitioners too. No one has suggested a splint to me. It's like they don't exist. Are they really expensive? Maybe that's why no one says anything to me.

TMJ specialist...again...

WAS denied benzos by family GP.

PeteJ, have you read Greg Sacramento's story, it may give you a few ideas...
Hope you're ok.

 

[just1morething]

Where do you live? Here, I have seen three different dentists and one Dr. No, wait. I have seen after hours doctors and nurse practitioners too. No one has suggested a splint to me. It's like they don't exist. Are they really expensive? Maybe that's why no one says anything to me.

TMJ specialist...again...

WAS denied benzos by family GP.

I'm from southern Minnesota near Mankato.

I have seen Dr. Hakala in St. Paul:

https://mncranio.com/

https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/possible-tmj.26586/#post-307927

Link to TMJ and tinnitus:

https://managebackpain.com/tmj-pain/tmj-tinnitus

 

[Daniel Lion]

I'm from southern Minnesota near Mankato.

I have seen Dr. Hakala in St. Paul:

https://mncranio.com/

https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/possible-tmj.26586/#post-307927

Link to TMJ and tinnitus:

https://managebackpain.com/tmj-pain/tmj-tinnitus

Colombo is from Southern Minnesota, go figure, I should have known by his cool demeanor.
Talked to my mechanic today, he never does anything, but talk. I told him he looked great, he attributed that to having started smoking cigars again. I also noticed he had hearing aids, I told him about my tinnitus and hearing difficulties. He said his tinnitus is gone and he can now hear a mosquito fart. I love to hear leaves blowing in the trees again. Anyways, pretty cool, and what I wanted fixed we never discussed. In 2020 I am gonna start looking into hearing aids... I gotta accept it.

 

[Star64]

Good post Star thanks.
A couple points of clarification....
We are closer in agreement than you think. I keep an open mind about chasing the holy grail too as misguided as that is and why I tried CBD oil and Curcumin...neither did anything for me.

And maybe it wasn't clear by my post. Nobody is more skeptical than pharma and conventional medicine than I and too have seen it first hand. I lost a young friend on an operating table because they shunted his heart wrong when undergoing surgery. Akin to throwing darts at a dart board.

But guess what? Still the best game in town. Hands down...replete with major failings and doctor screw ups which 'abound' and are ubiquitous...has happened to me and countless others I know on even routine procedures. Better to be lucky than good.

What is worse? People chasing pills in a bottle from big pharma or... chasing foo foo dust at the health care store?

The latter if you want help. I explained why. A benign substance has little down side. Take too much lithium and you likely have a real problem. But lithium helps for mental illness. Ask Lane.

You can chase the supplement dragon, no harm in that. People want to believe in something.

Now back to your incense and chanting while you cue up the fairy dust.
Be well and tell us how it goes. The mind is so powerful, sometimes if you believe in somethings, it comes true.

The mind is so powerful, sometimes if you believe in somethings, it comes true.
I am so glad you said these words John, because I believe one day that we could end up sitting around the same campfire singing Kumbaya, so do me a favor, start growing your hair because I have the beads for your braids ready to go

Back to my Meditation now, Ohmmmm

 

[John Mahan]

Colombo is from Southern Minnesota, go figure, I should have known by his cool demeanor.
Talked to my mechanic today, he never does anything, but talk. I told him he looked great, he attributed that to having started smoking cigars again. I also noticed he had hearing aids, I told him about my tinnitus and hearing difficulties. He said his tinnitus is gone and he can now hear a mosquito fart. I love to hear leaves blowing in the trees again. Anyways, pretty cool, and what I wanted fixed we never discussed. In 2020 I am gonna start looking into hearing aids... I gotta accept it.

The mind is so powerful, sometimes if you believe in somethings, it comes true.
I am so glad you said these words John, because I believe one day that we could end up sitting around the same campfire singing Kumbaya, so do me a favor, start growing your hair because I have the beads for your braids ready to go

Back to my Meditation now, Ohmmmm

lol...
if you think about what changes the most for most of us, it isn't pharma or supplements...at least for me, its basically going through the shock and grieving process of losing a bit of our health, lack of control about a noise stuck in our head we eventually and 'begrudgingly' come to terms with. To me pharma and supplements are window dressing....provided their wasn't profound mental illness going into contracting tinnitus. I believe most here that suffer with suicidal ideation long term are mentally ill. Sure if volume goes up on tinnitus which it does for me time to time, it makes it harder to cope with...and loud tinnitus can even promote mental illness on some level...but mostly for borderline people to begin with I believe.

Sure pharma meds have a bigger downside as you state because they have a bigger net upside due to their chemical nature and reaction with the brain and why many aren't available over the counter as with supplements that overall are more benign and less reactive.

I try like hell not to take any meds. I believe also that that no one size fits all with this scourge. My tinnitus is a subset on this forum. My tinnitus goes haywire due to sleep. There is something about the part of my mind that is engaged during deep sleep...portion of my brain responsible for the brain waves of dreaming...I dream vividly all kinds of weird scenarios...that spikes my tinnitus. EEG's have shown that tinnitus lights up most brains differently....like a finger print.

So I struggle mostly with sleep and tinnitus. Others don't have this kind of reaction at all.

Now there maybe a supplement or combination out there that could reduce this cause and effect. Color me skeptical. I am sure there is a sleep med other than Clonazepam that may knock me out as much or more so I wouldn't wake after one of my wacky dreams. I have never taken sleeping pills in my life. Have never taken one.

So I am not totally in the pharma camp, or really in the supplement camp. I believe more in holistic health and harmony and balance in life giving purpose and balance....not what is available in bottles. But I learned a long time ago like Lane did about lithium...if you are genetically predisposed toward anxiety, pharma to the rescue if you can't manage your anxiety through achieving better balance in life. Genetics steer the ship and limited free will and pharma can change the balance of genetic interaction just like it can change cancer cell mutation.

PS. I worked with a PhD engineer awhile back and we nicknamed him the mad Russian. He was a brilliant scientist who invented Rheological fluid i.e. fluid that changes viscosity based upon electrical stimulus.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetorheological_fluid

This is used in active suspension systems in high end automobiles to better control ride over undulating road surfaces. I asked him how he was doing once and he just shook his head and said to me, he couldn't sleep. This was back in the day when I was younger and I personally slept like a baby. I said, why can't you sleep Emil? And he said, I can't stop doing differential calculus in my head...all I think about. Most people can't do basic algebra...lol. He could no sooner turn off his genius that makes him inventive and creative unlike average people than Tesla could. No free will. Genetics. You could say his genius was a form of madness. Most believe Tesla was mad on some level but one of the greatest geniuses that history has recognized. Tesla said he got all his inventions from communication with aliens...which of course is possible because it defies understanding that he could figure out what he did because nobody else had.

 

[Star64]

lol...
if you think about what changes the most for most of us, it isn't pharma or supplements...at least for me, its basically going through the shock and grieving process of losing a bit of our health, lack of control about a noise stuck in our head we eventually and 'begrudgingly' come to terms with. To me pharma and supplements are window dressing....provided their wasn't profound mental illness going into contracting tinnitus. I believe most here that suffer with suicidal ideation long term are mentally ill. Sure if volume goes up on tinnitus which it does for me time to time, it makes it harder to cope with...and loud tinnitus can even promote mental illness on some level...but mostly for borderline people to begin with I believe.

Sure pharma meds have a bigger downside as you state because they have a bigger net upside due to their chemical nature and reaction with the brain and why many aren't available over the counter as with supplements that overall are more benign and less reactive.

I try like hell not to take any meds. I believe also that that no one size fits all with this scourge. My tinnitus is a subset on this forum. My tinnitus goes haywire due to sleep. There is something about the part of my mind that is engaged during deep sleep...portion of my brain responsible for the brain waves of dreaming...I dream vividly all kinds of weird scenarios...that spikes my tinnitus. EEG's have shown that tinnitus lights up most brains differently....like a finger print.

So I struggle mostly with sleep and tinnitus. Others don't have this kind of reaction at all.

Now there maybe a supplement or combination out there that could reduce this cause and effect. Color me skeptical. I am sure there is a sleep med other than Clonazepam that may knock me out as much or more so I wouldn't wake after one of my wacky dreams. I have never taken sleeping pills in my life. Have never taken one.

So I am not totally in the pharma camp, or really in the supplement camp. I believe more in holistic health and harmony and balance in life giving purpose and balance....not what is available in bottles. But I learned a long time ago like Lane did about lithium...if you are genetically predisposed toward anxiety, pharma to the rescue if you can't manage your anxiety through achieving better balance in life. Genetics steer the ship and limited free will and pharma can change the balance of genetic interaction just like it can change cancer cell mutation.

PS. I worked with a PhD engineer awhile back and we nicknamed him the mad Russian. He was a brilliant scientist who invented Rheological fluid i.e. fluid that changes viscosity based upon electrical stimulus.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetorheological_fluid

This is used in active suspension systems in high end automobiles to better control ride over undulating road surfaces. I asked him how he was doing once and he just shook his head and said to me, he couldn't sleep. This was back in the day when I was younger and I personally slept like a baby. I said, why can't you sleep Emil? And he said, I can't stop doing differential calculus in my head...all I think about. Most people can't do basic algebra...lol. He could no sooner turn off his genius that makes him inventive and creative unlike average people than Tesla could. No free will. Genetics. You could say his genius was a form of madness. Most believe Tesla was mad on some level but one of the greatest geniuses that history has recognized. Tesla said he got all his inventions from communication with aliens...which of course is possible because it defies understanding that he could figure out what he did because nobody else had.

John do not worry if your wacky dreams involve you driving a Combi van and wearing a kaftan and Birkenstock sandals, because Researchers have found that the brain's activity during sleep may explain the capacity of dreams to foretell the future.

See you at the campfire Ohmmmm

 

[John Mahan]

John do not worry if your wacky dreams involve you driving a Combi van and wearing a kaftan and Birkenstock sandals, because Researchers have found that the brain's activity during sleep may explain the capacity of dreams to foretell the future.

See you at the campfire Ohmmmm

Actually Star, speaking of the campfire, I noticed you were boge-ing the ganja a bit.
Please pass it down.
Did you notice I just washed my dreds?
Ohmmmm

PS. a pic of my bus:

No doubt you have heard of Woodstock. In America, the tradition somewhat lives on....we have this alternative counterculture annual gathering called Burning Man. Something for everybody. Maybe you have heard of it:

https://www.dezeen.com/2019/09/27/stone-27-benjamin-langholz-burning-man-black-rock-city-nevada/


One of my favorite songs of all time from Woodstock:


And the greatest rock guitarist who ever lived who left us much too soon:

 

[linearb]

@Daniel Lion is this the article you objected to? https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/01/14/is-marijuana-as-safe-as-we-think

If so, I am curious what you don't like about it. The random, unsupported anecdote from the mental health worker was sort of obnoxious, but other than that I think that's a pretty reasonable, middle of the road take on all the things we don't know about pot. And I basically agree that while pot should be legal and accessible, we shouldn't trust the industry behind it any more than we trust the liquor lobby, tobacco companies, pharma, etc.

I'm sure you know from my posts that I like weed and am strongly opposed to all prohibition, so I am curious what in this article is grinding your gears. I will admit to only skimming some of it, I'm reading this stuff between work tasks.

@John Mahan have you tried low-thc, high-cbd cannabis products for sleep, on that note?

 

[John Mahan]

@Daniel Lion is this the article you objected to? https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/01/14/is-marijuana-as-safe-as-we-think

If so, I am curious what you don't like about it. The random, unsupported anecdote from the mental health worker was sort of obnoxious, but other than that I think that's a pretty reasonable, middle of the road take on all the things we don't know about pot. And I basically agree that while pot should be legal and accessible, we shouldn't trust the industry behind it any more than we trust the liquor lobby, tobacco companies, pharma, etc.

I'm sure you know from my posts that I like weed and am strongly opposed to all prohibition, so I am curious what in this article is grinding your gears. I will admit to only skimming some of it, I'm reading this stuff between work tasks.

@John Mahan have you tried low-thc, high-cbd cannabis products for sleep, on that note?

Hi linearb,
Will preface and say I always appreciate the advice you provide on this forum.

I am in a trap with meds like most but I generally am able to get by without them...though not always.

I have a dilemma and perhaps you can help me solve it recognizing solid solutions with tinnitus are pretty rare. I typically don't need Clonazepam during the day. When I was younger I slept normally and unlike many here, I didn't contract tinnitus until much later in life. Hard to understand the interaction between my brain when sleeping and tinnitus. Which is the culprit? Does tinnitus affect my sleep patterns and tendency to wake up with wild dreams and/or nightmares....or....is it my changed brain chemistry that gives me the weird dreams and intensifies my tinnitus? I don't know the answer to this question and have thought about it a bit.

But, Clonazepam...only a 0.5mg dose, really helps me sleep through the night, typically enjoying lower tinnitus and less crazy dreams. But, and nobody has said it better than you, there is no cure for tinnitus, and long term benzo usage isn't good for us...but what choice do we have? I elect to 'gut it out' and not sleep as well some nights as a result to 'ward off addiction.' Some nights I sleep ok. But some nights I wake up in the middle of the night having a nightmare where I am in a position I can't solve (a metaphor for my tinnitus I believe) and I go for the bottle of Clonazepam….btw, not all the time. I am a bit used to this pattern and many times depending on my anxiety level, I can go back to sleep without. But a hell of lot easier with the Clonazepam. But, I listen to all the addiction horror stories on this forum with benzos and try not to be that guy.

So an enigma wrapped within a conundrum as the saying goes. I like of take it as it comes, but can't rely on a good night's sleep like I could when I was younger pre tinnitus. I didn't have many nightmares when I was young.

May I ask if you have any sleep disorder with your tinnitus? Do you take something at bedtime, and if so what?

I have taken CBD oil during the day and even bumping my dosage, I didn't notice much change in my tinnitus or quality of life. Anxiety that runs in my family isn't much of a problem at this point in my life though it may contribute minimally to some level of avoidance behavior....but not a lot.

Maybe I should try CBD oil at bedtime? Does CBD oil have an addictive quality as well and/or does the body acclimate and you need to take more down the road for the same calming effect due to the body building up a tolerance?

Thanks for any coaching advice you could provide linearb. Appreciate you man.

 

[Daniel Lion]

@Daniel Lion is this the article you objected to? https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/01/14/is-marijuana-as-safe-as-we-think

If so, I am curious what you don't like about it. The random, unsupported anecdote from the mental health worker was sort of obnoxious, but other than that I think that's a pretty reasonable, middle of the road take on all the things we don't know about pot. And I basically agree that while pot should be legal and accessible, we shouldn't trust the industry behind it any more than we trust the liquor lobby, tobacco companies, pharma, etc.

I'm sure you know from my posts that I like weed and am strongly opposed to all prohibition, so I am curious what in this article is grinding your gears. I will admit to only skimming some of it, I'm reading this stuff between work tasks.

@John Mahan have you tried low-thc, high-cbd cannabis products for sleep, on that note?

Hi brother, on rereading it, it's not that bad...

My brother originally sent me the article so my defensive posture was heightened to begin with.
The bit about the murder and people being chopped up rubbed me the wrong way and some of the stats he alluded to and there correlation with violence also caused me to raise eye brows.
I still think he's a brilliant writer but a bit of a sensationalist.
Some thoughts on weed.

When I was a kid, teachers were sometimes drunk, and police officers drunk were to be avoided at all cost. Boston in the 1970s was a drinking town. Just generalizing now, but my friends and I would get high and play chess and draw, we didn't get in fights.
I had friends who when drinking would actually start fights with strangers.
Malcom does make some very valid points, the industry is basically making a run for it with no real supervision, but every other drug and alcohol company has done the same thing.
The weed is super powerful now and that's actually dangerous for young folk. I have had students flip out on weed. Is it a gate way drug? Yes, but the same could be said for a can of beer, at least in American culture.

I started getting high as a teen and have done drugs my entire life up to two years ago. Believe me, it's weird not having that hit, it's just exercise, saunas, and occasional sex now. I used to mix sex and drugs and a doctor would probably have said I had a sex addiction or a libido that was out of balance, the latter I would say is more correct.

My drugs of choice were tobacco and weed, I smoked for decades and loved it. I have tried narcotics and many other things but they just didn't call me. Tinnitus and my neurological damage changed marijuana and tobacco for me. They made me feel worse. I did find edibles, which I had never used to actually be awesome. But my source went away so I haven't had edibles for ages now. I am getting some seeds sent, so we will see how that goes next year. Generally if I take drugs, my threshold is pretty high, so I need quite a bit to get a buzz. Again I digress.
The vaping problems in the States I saw coming years ago, it was a no brainer, of course that shit, especially the oils full of chemicals would hurt people.
Marijuana helps a lot of people with medical conditions, fact, and helps many people relax. But the strains now are probably too potent. Anyone prone to psychological problems could be in deep waters with the strains these days.

I don't want my kids messing with any drug until they are in their mid to late 20s and the brain is fully developed. A matter a fact, if they can live a life drug free I'd be super pleased.
So here I am clean and sober after a life of using drugs and i am actually digging it and getting used to it. This is a big deal for me.

I read that in my home town they did not give any weed retail licenses to black people, figures, some things are just hard to change, like racism.

So yah, after a quick reread, Malcom is probably not that far off the mark, and maybe I was just be defensive having been a weed smoker my whole life. You can weld titanium when your smoking skunk but not drinking whisky... there I go again. Built houses, roofs, staircases, cabinets, all on weed... never alcohol. Still, I am being a defensive little shit. Sorry.

America has a huge drug problem... I guess all we can do is educate are kids and keep a close eye on them...
Wow, what A digression... sorry...

What are your thoughts on Malcom's piece, I know you'll be more coherent than me and I value your insights.

Post note... if I actually grow some bud and harvest it a year from now, I will try it. But I found eating it strangely better for my tinnitus.

Today my tinnitus is loud, I had bad dreams last night. I am gonna go and exercise and then take Gabriel and Elijah, to play badminton. Noah, my eldest, who is a bad ass, is playing soccer today.

Fuck me... what a digression.

 

[linearb]

Hi linearb,
Hard to understand the interaction between my brain when sleeping and tinnitus. Which is the culprit? Does tinnitus affect my sleep patterns and tendency to wake up with wild dreams and/or nightmares....or....is it my changed brain chemistry that gives me the weird dreams and intensifies my tinnitus?

I don't know, either, but I think these things are often "feedback loops". Tinnitus definitely changed my brain chemistry. I went through a phase of having tinnitus-focused dreams. In some cases these were insanely visionary, and one of them actually had a dramatic and lasting (positive) impact on how I view my tinnitus.

May I ask if you have any sleep disorder with your tinnitus? Do you take something at bedtime, and if so what?

I've had a "sleep disorder" since I was an overmedicated ADHD teen, and even before that, going back to when I was tiny, I always wake up 1-2x to pee. Note that I take a significant dose of clonazepam daily (2mg) -- but that only "fixed" my sleep for the first couple months, then back to square one basically. A combination of THC & CBD is much more effective -- for instance, I know from experience that cannabis can eliminate most of the insomnia I get during a benzo taper -- but benzos do NOT cover the insomnia I get from cannabis cessation. On the other hand, insomnia is about the worst part of detoxing cannabis for me, and tapering off benzos is a whole other shitshow.

I have taken CBD oil during the day and even bumping my dosage, I didn't notice much change in my tinnitus or quality of life. Anxiety that runs in my family isn't much of a problem at this point in my life though it may contribute minimally to some level of avoidance behavior....but not a lot.

Maybe I should try CBD oil at bedtime? Does CBD oil have an addictive quality as well and/or does the body acclimate and you need to take more down the road for the same calming effect due to the body building up a tolerance?

There's a ton of CBD products on the market, I would avoid anything you can't get GC/MS lab results for; all reputable vendors do that (Sunsoil for instance).

I have had very little luck with CBD products with zero THC in them. My wife uses Sunsoil capsules for sleep; you can see they have a bit of THC in them, which is probably why they "do something".

I, personally, maintain a high THC tolerance; I do not get particularly altered from using it, my sleep is generally pretty normal, and it somehow seems to synergize with the clonazepam for me. I feel pretty dubious about the sustainability of any of this, but right now life is pretty good, so on we plow.

@Daniel Lion that's all very interesting; I certainly support your efforts. As a parent -- I don't want weed normalized to the point that my kid thinks it's okay to start doing it when they're 13. On the other hand, my own parents always had alcohol around and that was just an "adult's thing" and never caused issues. I didn't get into recreational drugs until I'd already been railroaded onto psych drugs I hated, but I discovered THC and then LSD shortly after when I was about 17. As interesting as all that was, I do think the complete chaos of my late teens and early 20s was not helped, and that if I had "simply" spent those years meditating instead and then tried acid a couple times when I was 25/26 I might have gotten the same benefits with a lot less of the pain. But I also know that past a point you can't really control kids. I was buying LSD before homeroom and eating it and tripping the days of my junior/senior year away, and managing to do it without attracting the attention of school officials. I'd be down enough by the time I was home to act rational, usually. How do you stop a really smart kid from doing that? My parents literally never put a lock on anything I couldn't crack, and this included a ~$500 fireproof safe they bought. I patiently waited until I found a way to get into the OTHER safe, correctly assumed that the combination to the new, expensive safe would be in there, and presto. Basically, some teenagers are just total asshole drug-using lunatics, and I don't know if you can do much besides love them and try to keep them safe. There was nothing dysfunctional, unhappy or abusive about my family life, and my brother and sister exhibited none of these dramatic, impulsive behaviors.

I take the same exception you do to the "chopped up bodies" comments; that's drug warrior BS. But, my overall reaction to the piece is that it's fairly balanced. I do think we're seeing a swing back a little too far. For decades, the government lied about how dangerous weed is, to a point where people just stopped believing it. But, now you seem to have a lot of people who think it's "harmless" and "totally fine to use constantly". I use a lot, I don't think it's totally fine, and so I respect having people like Malcom at least trying to take a sort of middle of the road view.

Let's not put people in jail for pot. Let's not make people resort to sketchy black markets for pot. But, that doesn't mean "let's build a society where everyone is stoned all the time and sees no problem with that". And, part of me sort of worries that marijuana legalization is coming at a time when the fabric of global society is tearing at the seams, and so for some people it might just become more "bread and circuses" that help them ignore the decline and destruction of human civ as we know it But maybe I'm just paranoid from too much weed....

For what it's worth, it took me a good 5 years after bad T set in, to be able to tolerate cannabis, let alone enjoy it.

I do think westerners and Americans in general are incredibly drug happy, and that's a net negative. On the other hand, cannabis appears to at least partially displace alcohol and opioid consumption in some studies. It's complex.

 

[John Mahan]

Thanks so much for the thorough overview linearb. You are proof positive that a very full life of experimentation both good and perhaps some things you would do differently like all of us...gives you keen and broad perspective. Thanks for sharing this richness of information you have derived from a very full life with the community here.

The CBD oil I currently use has no THC and I am in your camp about possible therapeutic quality of this component.

I am interested in ordering a bottle of what your wife uses for sleep. It seems to be Goldilocks in terms of CBD oil + THC and maybe a good product to try.

Is this the precise product she uses?

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1...aa5c1101-c673-4e5e-b825-d599217d7ef1.pdf?7917

Are you in the US and if so, any suggestion where to order it? Does one need a medical marijuana certificate to order it?...because it has a percent of THC?

I was kind of a clean cut kid but with a wild streak growing up. I smoked weed in college like most kids of my generation and drank alcohol in high school at parties. Btw, I was on no medication through college. I got my first panic attack when a friend of mine suddenly died from a rare disease. I didn't know what panic attacks were. I stopped using marijuana in my 30's because most US companies drug test, not because I was adverse to recreational usage which I always enjoyed. I share your viewpoint on legalization. I don't believe people should be in jail for pot use. The US is changing pretty rapidly but also I don't want a society like you say of young people smoking weed.

Thanks again linearb.