Pitch and Loudness from Tinnitus in Individuals with Noise-Induced Hearing Loss

[beeeep]

Wow, didn't expect this:

The study included 33 subjects with noise-induced hearing loss diagnoses, of which 22 (66.7%) were men. Authors observed no statistical difference between gender and loudness/pitch tinnitus and loudness/pitch in subjects with bilateral tinnitus. Authors found an inverse relation between tinnitus loudness with intensity greater hearing threshold and the average of the thresholds and the grade of hearing loss. The tinnitus pitch showed no association with higher frequency of hearing threshold.
CONCLUSION:

Data analysis shows that, among the individuals evaluated, the greater the hearing loss, the lower the loudness of tinnitus. We did not observe an association between hearing loss and tinnitus pitch.

I haven't read the full study yet, but if anyone's interested, it's available online.

 

[grate_biff]

"We did not observe an association between hearing loss and tinnitus pitch."
Wtf does that mean?

 

[lapidus]

"We did not observe an association between hearing loss and tinnitus pitch."
Wtf does that mean?

My guess is they mean that the hypothesis is that your T frequency is the same frequency you've lost hearing on?

 

[grate_biff]

My guess is they mean that the hypothesis is that your T frequency is the same frequency you've lost hearing on?

Isn´t that what they are NOT saying? Wich is baffeling to me!

 

[PaulBe]

"the greater the hearing loss, the lower the loudness of tinnitus."

A survey of this participants on this Board may well have shown them that for far less money. It seems a recurring observation here.

 

[lapidus]

Isn´t that what they are NOT saying? Wich is baffeling to me!

Yeah, that's what I said. They are showing that the hypothesis isn't correct.

 

[grate_biff]

Yeah, that's what I said. They are showing that the hypothesis isn't correct.

Well, they are claiming. Anyway, I think its bullcrap!

 

[MakeItStop]

This might be dumb but if your T ringing is louder because of lesser damage to hair cell, what if you just removed that damaged hair cell or hair cells to make your T minimal or even non-existent. But then, maybe your brain would compensate for that lost signal or frequency and you would still have T. I wouldn't mind going 10% deaf for some silence...just saying.

 

[Tom Cnyc]

33 patients is hardly statistically significant.

 

[Nick Pyzik]

"the greater the hearing loss, the lower the loudness of tinnitus."

A survey of this participants on this Board may well have shown them that for far less money. It seems a recurring observation here.

YES. 100% agree with the words in bold. I was stating that a few weeks ago to a friend on here. I'm glad there's a study speaking about it now.

 

[Nick Pyzik]

This might be dumb but if your T ringing is louder because of lesser damage to hair cell, what if you just removed that damaged hair cell or hair cells to make your T minimal or even non-existent. But then, maybe your brain would compensate for that lost signal or frequency and you would still have T. I wouldn't mind going 10% deaf for some silence...just saying.

There is too much hype on sensory hair cells because they are the leading front-runners of our hearing. Just because animals can regenerate their damaged sensory hair cells doesn't mean it's the key to a human hearing better. The brain is all processing. The neurons and nerve fibers are what conduct this specific processing task. The chemicals involved in our auditory processing could be the key to hearing better.

 

[PaulBe]

This might be dumb but if your T ringing is louder because of lesser damage to hair cell...

Not so dumb. This could well explain why many of us retain adequate hearing per audiogram, but also find that our hearing is distorted and ear-tearingly uncomfortable. The cell isn't dead but being damaged, is it misfiring? I doubt there would be a viable way to remove damaged hair cells, short of sacrificing the total hearing in the affected ear.

 

[Ian Mac]

I got bilateral tinnitus from loud music in 2011. In 2015 I contracted labrythitis in my left ear. My left ear only functions at 45% of what my right ear, and I have hearing loss in the high frequencies in my left ear. I have noticed that my tinnitus is much less intense, quieter, stable, consistent on the left but my right ear has a cocaphapny of beeps and bird chirps with crickets, I can't sleep on my right ear because the noises are so loud. I would say that yes true hearing loss stops tinnitus which is WHY WE ALL ASK TO CUT THE NERVE but we're stuck in this stupid "brain ringing paradigm, where you go to your doctor explain that there's a problem in your ears and he tells you sorry it's in your brain and I don't work on the brain, but this research would suggest otherwise... QUICK cover this research up before ENT's and otologists have to actually work. Brain ringing is so convenient because then doctors can all just throw up their hands and say "fuck it, I'm not a brain doctor."

 

[MakeItStop]

Yea, it's just crazy how much people don't understand tinnitus, including myself. This would be definitely an unconventional way of going about it, but for guys who have noise induced tinnitus, I would really not mind not hearing a certain frequency if I did not have hear my tinnitus ringing forever. I think it comes down finding the source of tinnitus, if your hair cells are sending messed up signals to the brain, locate those cells, and remove them and bam, no more tinnitus.....(in a perfect world, might not work). If your auditory nerve is damaged then it might be a different story where the only solution would be to cut that nerve.

 

[Vaba]

I got bilateral tinnitus from loud music in 2011. In 2015 I contracted labrythitis in my left ear. My left ear only functions at 45% of what my right ear, and I have hearing loss in the high frequencies in my left ear. I have noticed that my tinnitus is much less intense, quieter, stable, consistent on the left but my right ear has a cocaphapny of beeps and bird chirps with crickets, I can't sleep on my right ear because the noises are so loud. I would say that yes true hearing loss stops tinnitus which is WHY WE ALL ASK TO CUT THE NERVE but we're stuck in this stupid "brain ringing paradigm, where you go to your doctor explain that there's a problem in your ears and he tells you sorry it's in your brain and I don't work on the brain, but this research would suggest otherwise... QUICK cover this research up before ENT's and otologists have to actually work. Brain ringing is so convenient because then doctors can all just throw up their hands and say "fuck it, I'm not a brain doctor."

Bizarrely, many people (something like 33%) who have their auditory nerves cut retain the tinnitus, but go deaf. There's definitely some component of T in the brain...

 

[Mricha37]

At this point I don't give 2 poos about my T. I just want a normal hearing threshold. Bring on the hearing regeneration tests!

 

[Tom Cnyc]

my guess is this test is essentially flawed. audiograms that go to 8k wont show the true hearing damage. high pitched sounds cut through all and thus cant be masked easily, and end up seeming "louder".

 

[Ian Mac]

Bizarrely, many people (something like 33%) who have their auditory nerves cut retain the tinnitus, but go deaf. There's definitely some component of T in the brain...

I'm not one of those 33% brain ringing weirdos!

 

[Vaba]

I'm not one of those 33% brain ringing weirdos!

Firstly, they're not weirdos. I want to clarify that those who have brain-centralized NIHL make up a large portion of our community.

Secondly, I am in the same boat as you. The sounds in both of my ears are VASTLY different from one another - my left ear rings loudly in a pure tone, the right ear warbles shrilly in an unexplained low-pitched cacophony of noise - despite having NO SIGNIFICANT HEARING LOSS.

 

[Pleasure_Paulie]

NO SIGNIFICANT HEARING LOSS.

Have you done an audiogram up to 16,000hz? Have a read about "hidden hearing loss". The vast majority of people with Tinnitus will have hearing loss; just our current testing methods are not geared towards tinnitus; but selling hearing aids. Remember the hearing loss is not just noise induced Tinnitus is a symptom of an underlying hearing abnormality.

 

[Vaba]

Have you done an audiogram up to 16,000hz? Have a read about "hidden hearing loss". The vast majority of people with Tinnitus will have hearing loss; just our current testing methods are not geared towards tinnitus; but selling hearing aids. Remember the hearing loss is not just noise induced Tinnitus is a symptom of an underlying hearing abnormality.

I have indeed had a 16kHz hearing test. Here it is. As you can see, my hearing does not even BEGIN to decrease until 16kHz. (The chart says Hz, it means kHz.) I have also had ABRs and an OAE, all normal.

 

[Ian Mac]

Have you done an audiogram up to 16,000hz? Have a read about "hidden hearing loss". The vast majority of people with Tinnitus will have hearing loss; just our current testing methods are not geared towards tinnitus; but selling hearing aids. Remember the hearing loss is not just noise induced Tinnitus is a symptom of an underlying hearing abnormality.

They don't test for any of the frequencies involved in music, they don't test barely anything! Heavy Bass hearing loss specifically you won't see on hearing tests but causes high pitched T. They don't test low frequency bass tones because they aren't "necessary" because they are not a part of speech. As long as you can hear tones associated with the limited range of frequencies which people talk you are considered "normal hearing" even if you CANT enjoy/hear music or understand it.

 

[Kane Moffat]

Incredible how much we are finding out about tinnitus.

 

[GregCA]

Incredible how much we are finding out about tinnitus.

From my perspective, we're not finding nearly enough.

 

[Ian Mac]

No silly it's your brain

 

[ofaisalo]

"the greater the hearing loss, the lower the loudness of tinnitus"

--

I don't know what to say about this
is it good or bad

 

[Foncky]

33 patients is hardly statistically significant.

Totally.

Any panel with less than 1000 people is hardly reliable.

 

[Optic Axis]

My tinnitus has increased in volume over the past few years. I saw an audiologist a few weeks ago and he wanted to check my hearing again. He said my hearing has become worse in the past two years, more than he would have thought it would.

I wondered if it was a genuine deterioration, or if my tinnitus volume has increased so much that it 'cancels out' the sound I should be hearing, and so if I didn't have tinnitus I would actually hear the sound.

It was quite hard to keep concentrating on what might be coming through the headphones.

 

[Kane Moffat]

There is too much hype on sensory hair cells because they are the leading front-runners of our hearing. Just because animals can regenerate their damaged sensory hair cells doesn't mean it's the key to a human hearing better. The brain is all processing. The neurons and nerve fibers are what conduct this specific processing task. The chemicals involved in our auditory processing could be the key to hearing better.

I remember a post where you had figured all this out yourself about all the supporting cells before this article was published.. Good job mate.

This makes me wonder now though all these people celebrating how there T went away or they had a 'success story', they could just have even more degenerated nerves.

 

[Rings-a-Bell]

My hearing loss is around 4000hz. My primary T pitch is also around 4000hz. That being said I have a secondary at 13500hz. I don't think I have much hearing loss there---not because the audiologist tested it (their tests only go to 8000hz)--- but because I can hear it quite well using sound frequency generators on the internet. There is no large dip in volume like I have at 4000hz. In fact I can hear up to 15500hz just fine (which is pretty good for a 45 year old). So there you have it, an example of T that matches hearing loss pitch and one that doesn't... all from the same ear.