MemberYeah my hearing is totally fine and clear. I can still hear better than my wife.
Solsaem Clinic (Dr. Minbo Shim) Experience
- Thread starter JohnAdams
- Start date
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You don't seem to have any hearing loss to begin with, maybe the difference in your before and after test would be more profound if you had a steeper curve. Glad you are doing well!
No disrespect John - because I massively respect you for being honest - but I'd be furious with Dr Shim right about now if I was in your position. Firstly for attempting this when you have no measurable hearing loss, and secondly for taking your grandma's inheritance from you when there has been no change to your audiograms, whatsoever. You are young and your acoustic trauma was relatively recent so according to Dr Shim, you're the perfect candidate. You also went twice. I'd be contacting him right now to inquire about the audiograms, that he proudly displays on his website, to ask why he doesn't show any with results like yours? I'd also want proof of their validity. The only way for that to happen is for him to share his data with other clinicians and scientists and to present this new approach at a few medical conferences where it can gain credibility. The fact he chooses not to do this and prefers to take thousands of dollars from people speaks volumes to me. It's so unethical.
You have always mistakenly believed that I'm attacking you, but I'm not. I'm being highly critical of Dr Shim and for good reason. In my opinion, @Contrast should be adding this guy to his list of scammers to warn others. I see people being highly critical of others like JCH and Liam Boem, etc, but compared to Shim they are in the minor leagues. Dr Shim is just another Dr Shemesh or Dr Wilden in my opinion.
You say it can't be a placebo but that's exactly how a placebo works. That's why every clinical trial has a control because of how effective and powerful the placebo effect is. There was a study done recently which was published in the BMJ that showed just how efficacious sham surgeries are. They were getting results that were as good as real surgeries to control severe knee pain. They also showed that placebo pills can be just as effective as morphine when a patient is conditioned to believe it works. Without a controlled trial, by far the most likely outcome for you is a placebo.
I hate to upload these again, but it's just to highlight a point. You can see that I achieved better audiological results than you did by taking nothing more than supplements and eating a healthy diet (which obviously did nothing, objectively speaking).
My perception (of my tinnitus) has also massively improved both after my initial trauma and my MRI trauma, and your tinnitus is still really new. It changes like the wind for many people in the first years. My tinnitus no longer affects me anywhere near like it used to, but it's always a threat hanging over me and it killed my music career, so it's not all gravy. I'm only saying this in critique of Dr Shim and not you. At the end of the day, you were brave enough to go and provide real-life data for the benefit of everyone else, which has to be applauded.
Props to you.
You have always mistakenly believed that I'm attacking you, but I'm not. I'm being highly critical of Dr Shim and for good reason. In my opinion, @Contrast should be adding this guy to his list of scammers to warn others. I see people being highly critical of others like JCH and Liam Boem, etc, but compared to Shim they are in the minor leagues. Dr Shim is just another Dr Shemesh or Dr Wilden in my opinion.
You say it can't be a placebo but that's exactly how a placebo works. That's why every clinical trial has a control because of how effective and powerful the placebo effect is. There was a study done recently which was published in the BMJ that showed just how efficacious sham surgeries are. They were getting results that were as good as real surgeries to control severe knee pain. They also showed that placebo pills can be just as effective as morphine when a patient is conditioned to believe it works. Without a controlled trial, by far the most likely outcome for you is a placebo.
I hate to upload these again, but it's just to highlight a point. You can see that I achieved better audiological results than you did by taking nothing more than supplements and eating a healthy diet (which obviously did nothing, objectively speaking).
My perception (of my tinnitus) has also massively improved both after my initial trauma and my MRI trauma, and your tinnitus is still really new. It changes like the wind for many people in the first years. My tinnitus no longer affects me anywhere near like it used to, but it's always a threat hanging over me and it killed my music career, so it's not all gravy. I'm only saying this in critique of Dr Shim and not you. At the end of the day, you were brave enough to go and provide real-life data for the benefit of everyone else, which has to be applauded.
Props to you.
Allan Mcmillan
Member
- May 11, 2019
- 92
- Tinnitus Since
- April 30 2019
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Acoustic shock from playing guitar with headphones
Glad to know that there is an option available out there. I live in Japan which is only an hour's flight. The main problem is whether there are potential long term side effects from this course of treatment and the $9000 obviously.
Since Lenire was mentioned, and I wanted to give my opinion...
This Lenire/Neuromod sounds similar to the biofeedback I mastered decades ago.
In my 30's, due to my horrendous migraines, a doctor suggested I learn biofeedback. I went to a psychologist coach, who gave me a series of sessions. And they weren't cheap. I was hooked up to a little machine that gave off a frequency. When I got down to the delta relaxation state, the machine had a certain lower sound. The coach would help me recognize the coveted delta relaxation state. Eventually I wouldn't need the machine.
I learned it well and quickly. But it was boring too. When the counselor left the room, I would use my mind, with my eyes closed, and make the machine go faster and slower. It was cool to control that thing with just my thoughts.
But there was just one problem... it did NOTHING for my migraines. What a waste!
I can't say whether Neuromod will do anything or not, I see a possible similarity of history repeating itself. Neuromod coaches will take in big bucks for a while, like the biofeedback craze.
Biofeedback is passé.
I googled biofeedback recently, out of curiosity and most participants dropped out from boredom. It didn't show any difference for the migraine sufferers that stuck it out.
To be fair on biofeedback, it could help tension headache sufferers, but not migraine sufferers.
This Lenire/Neuromod sounds similar to the biofeedback I mastered decades ago.
In my 30's, due to my horrendous migraines, a doctor suggested I learn biofeedback. I went to a psychologist coach, who gave me a series of sessions. And they weren't cheap. I was hooked up to a little machine that gave off a frequency. When I got down to the delta relaxation state, the machine had a certain lower sound. The coach would help me recognize the coveted delta relaxation state. Eventually I wouldn't need the machine.
I learned it well and quickly. But it was boring too. When the counselor left the room, I would use my mind, with my eyes closed, and make the machine go faster and slower. It was cool to control that thing with just my thoughts.
But there was just one problem... it did NOTHING for my migraines. What a waste!
I can't say whether Neuromod will do anything or not, I see a possible similarity of history repeating itself. Neuromod coaches will take in big bucks for a while, like the biofeedback craze.
Biofeedback is passé.
I googled biofeedback recently, out of curiosity and most participants dropped out from boredom. It didn't show any difference for the migraine sufferers that stuck it out.
To be fair on biofeedback, it could help tension headache sufferers, but not migraine sufferers.
- May 29, 2015
- 664
- 30
- Tinnitus Since
- 2012
- Cause of Tinnitus
- I had tinnitus for as long as I can remember. Got bad later.
It's my understanding that you could still have results even after 6 months?
Whatever the case, though the lack of hearing improvement is disappointing, I do believe you when you say that your tinnitus improved.
After all, before you were having panic attacks fearing it may not have helped, especially when you had awful spikes after the treatment. Then there's the acoustic trauma you went through. You have also been paying very close attention to your tinnitus, just as much, if not more so, than when you got it. I am pretty sure that a placebo effect cannot apply to someone who was heavily alert, had acoustic trauma, and a treatment that temporarily caused heightened tinnitus. You've been extremely anxious about this for months, and even had some fears it may not have worked for a while. Tinnitus gets worse when stressed out, and you had that goop floating around in your ear for a while. For it to improve so drastically and stay like that for a long period of time like that, after all this, I am not so sure it's a placebo.
- May 7, 2015
- 1,051
- Tinnitus Since
- 29.09/2014
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Acoustic trauma using headphones
Besides the fact he didn't measure his before and after upper frequencies (8-16kHz) audiograms.
If anything improved it was there and it would be very interesting to see.
It's hard to find improvement in an almost flawless audiogram.
Been waiting a long time for this, and I must admit I'm very disappointed!
I must admit, I as well have problems understanding that long lasting relief from tinnitus, as he described as trains breaking, could be placebo.
Thing with placebo is it doesn't last!
But, my tinnitus is better, chill out. You are getting mad for me, that's so bizarre.
He didn't take anything from me I paid him fully knowing the risks. I'm a big boy I can make my own decisions.
I've been in contact with him.
If you say so.
I underwent this fully knowing the risks. I'm not a little kid and I certainly don't need you to cram your perception of the world down my throat. Thanks.
What makes you such an authority about any of this? What's your educational background? What specific experience in life makes you so authoritative beyond any of the rest of us? You constantly act like the white knight savior of the rest of us poor plebeians. Calm down. Geez Louize.
I always get a bit frustrated by these outdated audiograms. My hearing is fine at 3 kHz but drops a lot at about 3.3 kHz , this would not be caught by an audiogram.
- Oct 17, 2017
- 646
- Tinnitus Since
- 2005
- Cause of Tinnitus
- unknown - possibly hereditary
Lenire is based on bimodal stimulation, not some hogwash biofeedback. With Lenire you have a tongue tip in your mouth which emits electrical impulses to your trigeminal nerve. This in combination with the sounds you hear from the headphones make your tinnitus quieter.
For the last two weeks or so my tinnitus has been gone except for a few hours or so after lunchtime. Right now I'm in that little window where it usually comes back, and it did, but today the volume is less than half of what it usually has been.
- Jun 18, 2019
- 294
- Tinnitus Since
- 05/24/2019
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Chronic headphones use and acute noise induced trauma.
In all fairness, there is such thing as hidden hearing loss, which makes, especially in the case of tinnitus, audiograms, not all that reliable.
- Jan 25, 2013
- 3,595
- Tinnitus Since
- 2008
- Cause of Tinnitus
- TMJ disorder, airplane barotrauma, noise exposure.
My offer is still on the table regarding the grasshoppers. It would be nice if your wife could take a video of you munching on them with a big smile on your face. If they help your hearing that is a plus.
I'd just like my static noise in my ears/head under control. I'm talking to Dr. Abe Shulman later today.
He said he would call me back later.
I'm glad @JohnAdams tinnitus is much better and @GlennAz hearing seems to be improving.
Why don't you eat the grasshoppers, and snails too, and your hearing can improve?
@annV: Trying my best to keep up with this to the best of my abilities, so if this was already asked, I'm sorry. What if there's any damage to the trigeminal nerve or of any other part, connected to it? Would this still work?
The other thing I wondered is if this would work for those who also have ear pain hyperacusis and trigeminal neuralgia?
Looks like PRP is very effective in treating trigeminal neuralgia.@annV:
The other thing I wondered is if this would work for those who also have ear pain hyperacusis and trigeminal neuralgia?
"Novel perineural approach of platelet-rich plasma application in idiopathic trigeminal neuralgia treatment: a six-month follow-up pilot study"
https://www.ijoms.com/article/S0901-5027(17)31320-6/fulltext
Really? Dr. Shim said it would take 3 months.
Did someone do a study showing improvement after 6 months?
- May 29, 2015
- 664
- 30
- Tinnitus Since
- 2012
- Cause of Tinnitus
- I had tinnitus for as long as I can remember. Got bad later.
I vaguely remember. I think it was that it would take "3-6 months for noticeable improvement." I am not completely sure.
That was within Dr Shim's control and if he thought it was important than surely he should have measured those frequencies? None of the audiograms he's ever shown have gone beyond 8 kHz. To be honest though, the upper frequencies in most people are a minefield as we all have upper hearing loss and the range from 8 kHz to 16 kHz is only an extra octave.
The placebo effect can last for years. If you research into it you'll see how profound it can be, especially if one has a belief that something will work.
I'm not trying to be combative with you. Everything I'm saying is aimed at Dr Shim and I just cannot believe how many people are still defending him. It truly astounds me in all honesty. I see people like Jastreboff, JCH, Liam Boem, Daniel Toh, etc, get ripped to shreds on here but Dr Shim has managed to sail right under the radar with minimal criticism, and yet I'd say he is one of the worst offenders.
As far as my educational background goes, I've always been into science and have been studying it since I was a kid and have always aced all my science exams. I still study it now and am a subscriber to New Scientist; I was going to do a science degree with the OU but then my daughter arrived! People thought I was going to be a scientist or astronomer when I grew up, but I moved more towards music in my adolescence. I have spoken and had dinner with some of the most eminent professors at Cambridge University and have access to their online library. I also regularly discuss some of the things that are talked about on here, and other scientific stuff, with clinical lead consultants, doctors, dentists, etc, who are all friends. My mother-in-law is also a senior audiologist. I just post my thoughts and opinions like anyone else here.
I had earplugs and a set of flimsy headphones that they provided for protection but they were useless! I didn't have any contrast but I did have contrast for my CT scan when I had sepsis.
It could have done, but it's incredibly unlikely. Companies like REGAIN and Frequency Therapeutics (or even Marcelo Rivolta) wouldn't throw millions into R&D for hearing regeneration if a known method already existed. They would explore that first to see if it could be developed further. The fact that Dr Shim is the only man on the planet doing this is all you need to know. Peter Wehling's clinic has also stated that they wouldn't recommend doing what Shim does and they are experts on the subject.
I'm glad your tinnitus is better, John, I really am, but charging people $18,000 for a placebo is disgraceful in my opinion. I can't get past his ethics. If he wanted to be taken seriously he should have conducted a clinical trial before taking vast amounts of money from people. Nobody has any idea about its long term safety profile or anything.
- Jun 26, 2014
- 2,264
- Tinnitus Since
- 11/2013
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Drugs barotrauma
@JohnAdams, thanks for finally posting your audiograms. I was hoping to see some obvious improvements, but it is what it is.
The issue with anecdotal evidence for me is that every tinnitus treatment out there seems to work for someone, or at least they think it does.
I appreciate your honesty in all of this, and respect your decision to give it a shot. And if it truly helped you, awesome. Either way, congrats on the improvements.
The issue with anecdotal evidence for me is that every tinnitus treatment out there seems to work for someone, or at least they think it does.
I appreciate your honesty in all of this, and respect your decision to give it a shot. And if it truly helped you, awesome. Either way, congrats on the improvements.
Oh yes he did. He installed HF equipment while I was there the first time right before I left. I didn't post the comparisons because the new one doesn't show HF's. I guess I could go out and do that sometime soon.
You have no idea what you're talking about. PRP heals nerves FACT. If anything, it's very likely.
How do you know for a fact it is a placebo? Oh yeah, you don't. You have problems with assumptions dude. Stop pretending like you know everything about this based on X and Y because you don't.
You tell us how you know for a fact that that's what he is doing and that is what is responsible for my improvements.
You don't. You absolutely don't. It's one thing to have an opinion but you seriously have some kind of an issue with this and you espouse all of these statements as a fact. You've never even once offered any scientific evidence to disprove this, you always just claim so and so said X and Y but none of those people have ever tested it as if they magically know.
Explain how you know for a fact that he is giving people weeks of placebo treatments. You can't.
- May 7, 2015
- 1,051
- Tinnitus Since
- 29.09/2014
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Acoustic trauma using headphones
I was talking about you.
But, please, please do. I really think that it will show improvement.
The world is still looking to regenerate the hearing nerve, and you can hear an expert talk about this on Tinnitus Talk's very own (excellent) podcast with Marcelo Rivolta. If PRP showed enough merit scientists would be all over it for this purpose. The fact they aren't and the fact that Dr Shim would rather hide in the shadows than prove his theory suggests that it doesn't work. Just as with Occam's razor, the path with the least speculation is usually the correct one.
No one else has tested it except Minbo Shim so there is nothing to show. Think about it.
Until some one replicates IT injections of PRP and has data refuting its effectiveness then you have nothing to base your claims on. That's how science works.
You cannot just state that nobody else has done this therefore it's not real. That's logic.
You have absolutely no proof whatsoever to back up your claims against this man.
You are making assumptions and accusations that you cannot substantiate. I can't prove anything either. I've even stated being on 7,8-DHF could be behind my improvements. I just don't know but you need to stop making statements as if they are facts that what I am experiencing is the placebo effect because you don't know that. It's okay for you to say you think that but you aren't. You are stating that as if it is a fact and you need to stop.
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