Solsaem Clinic (Dr. Minbo Shim) Experience

[Ed209]

You have absolutely no proof whatsoever to back up your claims against this man.

The burden of proof is upon him. There are ethical questions to be asked when he prioritises money and experimentation on the public over clinical data. He claims he has been regenerating hearing since 2014 and has never attended a single medical conference or even published a paper. He has never contributed anything to the field of science. How much money has he made with his treatment in the last 5 years though? And on what evidence?

Where would you say his priorities lie? He is also notoriously abrupt and mysterious whenever anybody asks him about the efficacy of his treatment. He avoids all probing questions and also avoids credit cards like the plague. All top class medical establishments in the world accept credit cards; only scammers and people who don't want disputes with a major creditor avoid them.

 

[spedgas]

No one else has tested it except Minbo Shim so there is nothing to show. Think about it.

Until some one replicates IT injections of PRP and has data refuting its effectiveness then you have nothing to base your claims on. That's how science works.

Doesn't this work both ways though. Sure, no one can refute its effectiveness until one replicates IT injections of PRP. Nobody can claim it's successful unless someone can replicate effective results.

This is not something you assume is effective until someone proves otherwise. That's not how science works.

You and GlennAZ are not irrefutable evidence that this is effective.

 

[JohnAdams]

The burden of proof is upon him. There are ethical questions to be asked when he prioritises money and experimentation on the public over clinical data. He claims he has been regenerating hearing since 2014 and has never attended a single medical conference or even published a paper. He has never contributed anything to the field of science. How much money has he made with his treatment in the last 5 years though? And on what evidence?

Where would you say his priorities lie? He is also notoriously abrupt and mysterious whenever anybody asks him about the efficacy of his treatment. He avoids all probing questions and also avoids credit cards like the plague. All top class medical establishments in the world accept credit cards; only scammers and people who don't want disputes with a major creditor avoid them.

Nothing you have said proves anything about this not being effective. Until you can point to a study showing that PRP is not an effective treatment for tinnitus, then you cannot make the types of statements you do.

What we do know is that PRP is proven to heal various tissues, including nerves. Hair cells are considered to be peripheral nerves.

I have a degree in medically related field, I have done far more research about all of this than you, and I have taken it upon myself to do the treatment and have experienced an improvement. You avoid discussing medical research into PRP like the plague and just fall back on really really dumb arguments. You're really just a keyboard warrior with an extremely opinionated personality. You need to stop accusing people of impropriety, you have no proof whatsoever that I'm experiencing the placebo effect. But I know for a fact that you're going to keep arguing with me about this and I will keep arguing right back with science, experience, and basic logic on my side so go on. What's your next argument?

 

[Ed209]

You avoid discussing medical research into PRP like the plague and just fall back on really really dumb arguments.

I've discussed the science with you before?

For example:

 

[annV]

Nothing you have said proves anything about this not being effective. Until you can point to a study showing that PRP is not an effective treatment for tinnitus, then you cannot make the types of statements you do.

If you have a medical degree, how can you NOT understand that the burden of proof is on Dr. Bimbo? Until he provides irrefutable evidence of it working, it CANNOT be entertained a working treatment.

You have your science all mixed up, it's disconcerting.

 

[GlennAz]

Dr. Bimbo

AnnV, you don't have to call Dr Shim names. He doesn't call you or anyone else names.
He's a skilled Dr and learning like everyone else.
I didn't appreciate that.

 

[spedgas]

Nothing you have said proves anything about this not being effective. Until you can point to a study showing that PRP is not an effective treatment for tinnitus, then you cannot make the types of statements you do.

Can you understand that this paragraph is only hurting your argument? What if it was stated like this...

Nothing you have said proves anything about this being effective. Until you can point to a study showing that PRP is an effective treatment for tinnitus, then you cannot make the types of statements you do.

With where the research currently is there is no proof if it's effective or not.

 

[Ed209]

Dr Shim could really help himself by appearing on the Tinnitus Talk Podcast. He could explain why he hasn't published anything and also go into the evidence he has that shows it is efficacious. Considering we know of at least 3 people from here who have visited him, it's the least he could do.

He would also have a golden opportunity to shut me up and promote his work to a world audience that is a perfect demographic for his work.

 

[Artemis2K]

I took a break from this site because I got busy and wanted to avoid the crude arguing. It's unfortunate that this is happening again. I also see that there appears to be pointless and racist name calling. This doesn't solve anything.

Though I am disappointed that John couldn't show any signs of improvement through an audiogram, I am happy that at least his tinnitus went away. From my experience with Dr. Wilden, I sincerely doubt that he had a placebo effect. When I tried Wilden's laser, I was confident that it would help the tinnitus. I was sure it would because I trusted the word of several people here. Unfortunately, it didn't work out, and my tinnitus actually got worse when I used it. Probably because I kept obsessing over it and kept analyzing my hearing and tinnitus like a madman and trying to practice mindfulness. I had no period of bliss. The tinnitus was extremely loud. I'm even confident that the laser actually caused hearing loss. I was actually avoiding sound of all kind for months, and then after I used it after a period of time, my left ear's 4 kHz got worse. It wasn't until a month after that my ears went back to normal, besides the hearing loss. After that I only recovered half of what I was used to, it seems.

John's experience was the exact opposite of mine, even though both of us were paying very close attention to our ears. For several months John was anxious because he was fearful it wasn't working. His tinnitus was worse for a while after the treatment because the side effects of it were still there. I am doubtful that he could have possibly experienced a placebo effect because he was experiencing a living hell for a while. It doesn't appear John is saying his ears went back to his normal prior to the treatment. From what I'm understanding, he is saying that after all that time paying close attention, he believes that it is better than before all this, an improvement to what he was hearing last year.

On the chance that it is a placebo effect, I expect one day John will go through a really stressful event, and then start hearing his tinnitus like it was last year, or worse, and then he'd keep obsessing over that, but then it wouldn't go away, because he would be used to it, and aware of it. Yes, placebo effects can last for years, but in this case I don't think he would be under the effects of one. Throughout all of this, John didn't feel like his tinnitus was immediately better, and it took months for him to finally feel like it worked, and there were a lot of moments where his tinnitus was driving him crazy after that, until it finally faded away. For John to feel like his tinnitus improved, even after all that stress (which heightens tinnitus), and for him to feel like it was better than long before the treatment, I think that is noteworthy.

Anyone can disagree with me on this. That's okay with me. I just want people to consider the variables before believing it was a placebo. I want people to be careful with throwing the placebo theory. It may not be that, and there is reasonable doubt, in my opinion.

 

[Ed209]

I took a break from this site because I got busy and wanted to avoid the crude arguing.

For what it's worth I'm not being crude, I'm just debating the topic at hand. There is nothing personal towards any member here in anything I'm posting.

You're a good guy Artemis but you must admit that Dr Shim has a considerable amount of red flags and question marks?

Anyone can disagree with me on this. That's okay with me. I just want people to consider the variables before believing it was a placebo. I want people to be careful with throwing the placebo theory. It may not be that, and there is reasonable doubt, in my opinion.

You're absolutely right. It could be the end result of any number of variables and tinnitus can naturally change over time anyway. It's good news that John is feeling better and that's the main thing.

I just cannot fathom why anyone would want to defend or endorse Dr Shim after all that is known.

 

[JohnAdams]

Dr Shim has a considerable amount of red flags and question marks?

Well, Glenn and I have met him, and gone under his medical care so I'd think that we have far more jurisdiction to make such a call.

Unless both of us are delusional and you're the alpha brain to correct us and set us straight.

@Ed209
What is your obsession with this? Neuromod has many questionable circumstances surrounding it, like that it was released and recalled, and that it has been reported that some people got worse. I haven't seen you on that thread with any scrutiny whatsoever.

Something stinks here.

 

[JohnAdams]

AnnV, you don't have to call Dr Shim names. He doesn't call you or anyone else names.
He's a skilled Dr and learning like everyone else.
I didn't appreciate that.

She really wants him to conform to her standards. Honestly, I want to see the same type of clinical peer reviewed trials that they are frothing at the mouth over too. The fact of the matter is
just because the data that they want to see isn't there, in no way proves that my improvements are placebo based, a fact which denies his detractors any legitimacy to make any declarative statements whatsoever about the efficacy of this procedure.
Glenn and I are the only two people on this entire forum that have any real room to describe this person.
The only way that they bash this is to quote peer reviewed scientific studies about PRP, and most of them are good and implicate PRP on having a profound regenerative property on skin, nerves, membranes etc.

 

[Artemis2K]

For what it's worth I'm not being crude, I'm just debating the topic at hand. There is nothing personal towards any member here in anything I'm posting.

You're a good guy Artemis but you must admit that Dr Shim has a considerable amount of red flags and question marks?

You're absolutely right. It could be the end result of any number of variables and tinnitus can naturally change over time anyway. It's good news that John is feeling better and that's the main thing.

I just cannot fathom why anyone would want to defend or endorse Dr Shim after all that is known.

I was talking about the arguing in general. It hasn't been as bad as it was, and it wasn't directed toward you. I was mostly referring to the unnecessary racism.

As for Shim, some of the red flags I disagree on. I read scientific articles that convinced me the science is sound. I read many other uses for PRP, and I think it can actually help. Some of the stuff mentioned as possible red flags aren't exactly true, and others I disagree on. Shim has some problems that both John and I don't like, but I don't believe he's a scam artist. I think he's a doctor that found something with potential, tested it privately, and then started it on his own. PRP is pretty widely used for neuroregeneration, is pretty safe, and isn't regulated very much considering its origin, so he didn't go through a traditional trial. Unfortunately, I also think Shim might have too much pride of his work, and don't like that he tried patenting his treatment. Also, though I understand that he hates dealing with foreigner drama, I don't think that avoiding it entirely is good overall. Though he has been good with John and I, and have answered just about every question, it could help the community if he did appear on Tinnitus Talk. However, I understand that he'd rather just work on his patients, and would rather avoid drama.

 

[vttbx]

John, you barely have hearing loss on your audiogram. What is there to recover?

In your case, your tinnitus problem has been helped by the PRP.
We're not gonna have superhearing like Superman.

To have hearing like yours, I'd eat the the grasshoppers. Even the snails. Of course, I can't promise how much I'd hold onto...

Ditto for me. If Dr. Shim could give me John's hearing even with tinnitus, I'd be on a plane tomorrow. Thanks for posting!

 

[Ed209]

She really wants him to conform to her standards. Honestly, I want to see the same type of clinical peer reviewed trials that they are frothing at the mouth over too. The fact of the matter is
just because the data that they want to see isn't there, in no way proves that my improvements are placebo based, a fact which denies his detractors any legitimacy to make any declarative statements whatsoever about the efficacy of this procedure.
Glenn and I are the only two people on this entire forum that have any real room to describe this person.
The only way that they bash this is to quote peer reviewed scientific studies about PRP, and most of them are good and implicate PRP on having a profound regenerative property on skin, nerves, membranes etc.

At the end of the day, John, I'm on your side. I just figured you'd be incredibly annoyed with the way this has gone and I know I'd be flying back to SK to get my money back (for at least one of the treatments) if I was in the same position. He has obviously cast a spell over you and you truly believe his bullshit. There is nothing scientific about his method, whatsoever, so your defence of him does confuse me, I have to be honest.

Science doesn't work the way you're proclaiming it should. It's not up to the patients to prove that it doesn't work? I could invent a cure tomorrow, patent it (rather than trial it), and then start charging people more and more for it as time goes by. I could tell people that I have a proprietary complex or I could tell them that I use bananas and seaweed. In both cases, the burden of proof is on me to provide evidence to back up my treatment modality, and this is both for safety and ethical reasons. Otherwise, how would I know if it works or not! Yea sure it would be great to make a truckload of money doing it but I wouldn't be able to sleep at night and there's no way he'd be able to operate the way he does in the UK.

The jury is still out on Lenire, but it looks way more promising. They are doing the right things and they took the scientific route by conducting clinical trials first, and it only costs €2500, not $18,000 to re-inject something that comes from one's body and has no significant R&D expenses (because he didn't do any).

He ticks all the boxes of someone who is knowingly taking advantage of people, otherwise, he'd be attending conferences and his name would be world-renowned. He wouldn't be hiding in obscurity in a small clinic refusing credit card payments whilst the rest of the research world has never heard of him.

 

[another sean]

@JohnAdams what is the frequency of your tinnitus?

 

[JohnAdams]

otherwise, he'd be attending conferences and his name would be world-renowned

Ok, you don't trust him. We get it. You have said it over and over and over again, but just because he doesn't take credit cards doesn't mean that PRP cannot heal damaged cochleas.

There is nothing scientific about his method, whatsoever, so your defence of him does confuse me, I have to be honest.

re-inject something that comes from one's body and has no significant R&D expenses

So what, PRP definitely heals many body tissues, including peripheral nerves, a fact which the science backs up.

It's called dose dependency, the dose makes the drug. In one concentration a substance, in this case, growth factors from platelets, will have no healing effect, but in higher concentrated doses, can have healing effects. A FACT that is well proven out.

All examples are from the
US National Library of Medicine
National Institutes of Health (.gov)

PRP heals:

Peripheral nerves: (hair cells are peripheral nerves too)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21244302

Scars:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6243404/

Neuropathic pain:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23832571

Hair loss:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4622412/

Loss of smelling:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29243256

But this man doesn't take credit cards!
Therefore PRP cannot help with neuropathy associated with hearing damage and anyone that says that their tinnitus has improved after 5 weeks of this treatment is experiencing the placebo effect. My nerves refuse to heal because they are pissed that he doesn't take credit cards and are refusing to cooperate with the growth factors. That is your logic.

It's fine for you to state your opinion but your are proclaiming with no evidence whatsoever that I am experiencing a placebo effect. You have nowhere to go. Your claims are baseless.

 

[Ed209]

It's fine for you to state your opinion but your are proclaiming with no evidence whatsoever that I am experiencing a placebo effect.

The irony

John, no worries. At the end of the day if you're happy then so be it. I'm happy for you, buddy. I'm sure if we met in real life all would be cool. The internet is a shitty place to communicate and a lot can get lost in translation. The bottom line is that you feel your tinnitus has improved and that's all that matters

Take care man and look after those lugholes.

 

[JohnAdams]

The irony

John, no worries. At the end of the day if you're happy then so be it. I'm happy for you, buddy. I'm sure if we met in real life all would be cool. The internet is a shitty place to communicate and a lot can get lost in translation. The bottom line is that you feel your tinnitus has improved and that's all that matters

Take care man and look after those lugholes.

Actually, you may be right Ed.

 

[JohnAdams]

@JohnAdams what is the frequency of your tinnitus?

Before my treatment, tones at about 1.7 kHz, 3.3 kHz, 6.6 kHz, and another HF tone around 15 kHz.

Now I just have one around 3.7 kHz in both ears that lasts for about 3 hours a day and sometimes there is a static noise like a cassette tape in my left ear that is very quiet. If I clench my teeth I can make the static noise a little louder for a few seconds.

 

[Artemis2K]

Actually, you may be right Ed.

View attachment 30870

Isn't that the same book I found a while ago from that Japanese researcher? Or am I thinking of another?

 

[Artemis2K]

At the end of the day, John, I'm on your side. I just figured you'd be incredibly annoyed with the way this has gone and I know I'd be flying back to SK to get my money back (for at least one of the treatments) if I was in the same position. He has obviously cast a spell over you and you truly believe his bullshit. There is nothing scientific about his method, whatsoever, so your defence of him does confuse me, I have to be honest.

Science doesn't work the way you're proclaiming it should. It's not up to the patients to prove that it doesn't work? I could invent a cure tomorrow, patent it (rather than trial it), and then start charging people more and more for it as time goes by. I could tell people that I have a proprietary complex or I could tell them that I use bananas and seaweed. In both cases, the burden of proof is on me to provide evidence to back up my treatment modality, and this is both for safety and ethical reasons. Otherwise, how would I know if it works or not! Yea sure it would be great to make a truckload of money doing it but I wouldn't be able to sleep at night and there's no way he'd be able to operate the way he does in the UK.

The jury is still out on Lenire, but it looks way more promising. They are doing the right things and they took the scientific route by conducting clinical trials first, and it only costs €2500, not $18,000 to re-inject something that comes from one's body and has no significant R&D expenses (because he didn't do any).

He ticks all the boxes of someone who is knowingly taking advantage of people, otherwise, he'd be attending conferences and his name would be world-renowned. He wouldn't be hiding in obscurity in a small clinic refusing credit card payments whilst the rest of the research world has never heard of him.

With all due respect, I don't see how this wouldn't be scientific. This isn't even entirely Shim's work. Before him, there were many papers from biologists written that showed the general healing capabilities of growth factors, and there were also plenty focused on the ear as well. IGF-1 and NT3 have been mentioned quite a lot. Please don't dismiss that. I understand your skepticism of Shim, and that's fine, but I don't understand why you wouldn't acknowledge that growth factors have done a lot with regeneration for many different nerves/tissue, making the concept at least plausible. There is even a study that PRP might help with Trigeminal Neuralgia, which is literally called The Suicide Disease, and there were good results.

Honestly, I'd rather this discussion not be focused on entirely Shim himself. The guy is overseas, and you'd have to be gone from your own country for far too long. Instead, I'd like the discussion be about the science based on his method, and seeing if we can convince PRP and ENT clinics to replicate the whole treatment. If not that, then at least somehow convincing a reputable local clinic to do a full study. Having to go all the way to SK for such a thing exclusively isn't fair.

 

[just1morething]

I'm talking to Dr. Abe Shulman later today.
He said he would call me back later.

Just following up on my own post regarding Dr. Shulman as he called me back today. I know this has very little to do with Dr. Shim. I did bring him up though and also IT PRP injections but I don't think he knows of him. He asked if he was from the US and moved to South Korea and I said no.

He did not let me talk too much. He brought up QEEG/LORETA and CBT. I guess brain mapping has become more sophisticated recently in regards to tinnitus and other brain afflictions in locating where the abnormality is coming from.

https://www.tinnitustalk.com/thread...vely-assess-tinnitus.22395/page-2#post-396378

 

[just1morething]

Why don't you eat the grasshoppers, and snails too, and your hearing can improve?

I thought I would see your results first. I thought you probably ate some dried bugs in South Korea.

 

[Flamingo1]

No one else has tested it except Minbo Shim so there is nothing to show. Think about it.

Did Minbo find any HF loss? The audio grams you posted look pretty normal.

 

[JohnAdams]

Did Minbo find any HF loss? The audio grams you posted look pretty normal.

It was normal for my age.

 

[Cher2]

I also have been taking 7,8-DHF daily. That's a neurotropic drug

Do you notice any side effects from the 7,8-DHF?

 

[JohnAdams]

Do you notice any side effects from the 7,8-DHF?

None.

 

[just1morething]

@GlennAz, how about I send you this variety pack to try? Looks delicious.

 

[JohnAdams]

@GlennAz, how about I send you this variety pack to try? Looks delicious.

View attachment 30940

I want that.